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Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Seriously guys? Romney's gonna win? How do you figure? Even without a fremstyle secret weapon. The GOP's lost the women vote. They've lost the hispanic vote. They've lost the youth vote. Running a Mormon, they've lost the South. And running the guy who invented "Obamacare" they've lost everyone but the heartbroken Democrats who want to lash out at their own.

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Romney's lost the illegal sympathizer hispanic vote. (My step dad is hispanic and owns his own struggling business in IL and would NEVER vote for Obama). Romney's lost the liberal bra-burning, government hand out, free abortion women's vote (my mother, who doesn't care for Romney simply because he's Morman isn't foolish enough to vote for Ron Paul with what's at stake). My guess is there will be close to ZERO youth vote in 2012 after all of those promises of hope and change left kids with over 100k of college debt trying to pay it off while working part time at Old Navy. As for the south... do you really think that the white folk down there would vote a black guy in over a Morman, when the 3rd option is just to stay at home and blame other people for whatever happens?

The flip side is that Obama lost the ENTIRETY of the independent thinkers that voted for him last time. He lost the white working class vote, much of which voted for him last time and most of which will come back in full force to vote for ANYBODY but him in 2012. The Obama administration knows all of these facts. This is why he's not focusing on college kids anymore, or touting Hope and Change. It's become dirty, it's become racist, it's become sexist, and he's doing whatever he can to rile up the special interest groups because that's the ONLY way he's getting back in.

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Meanwhile, Obama is a warhawk who killed OBL, with an economy that is improving and will continue to improve throughout the election season. And NOBODY runs a political campaign like Barack Obama. I mean, the guy's middle name is Saddam Hussein (almost) and his last name freakin' rhymes with "Osama" and he STILL won last time around.

When it comes to Presidential elections, it's positives that win. What positives does Mitt Romney have? If you can find any, ya might want to let the GOP know, 'cause they don't seem to have found 'em yet.

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OBL... Oh yeah, Emannuel Goldstein. I wasn't even convinced he was a real person during the Bush Era and I thought he was just a photoshopped version of Scottie Pippen of the Bulls Dynasty (look up my Bush bashing posts in the pasts if you want proof of that). Did we get to see a body? lol.... nope. We got some grainy footage of what could have been a body dumped at sea that reminded me of any UFO or Bigfoot footage we've ever seen.

As for positives, what did Obama have behind him before he was in besides he was going to be the first black president? He was a junior Illinois politician with ties to Crook County politics. I'm ashamed that grew up in Crook County, ya know... the only county the entire US population knows about the last two governors being shamed, ousted and jailed because of how corrupt they are.


Oh... and I know you said something about the economy getting better.... Tell that to people like me who are trying way harder than they should to work at stores like Wal-Mart because nothing else is out there. All the decent entry-level jobs at companies you can actually get ahead in that I used to get without trying are given to the kids with bachelors degrees who are fighting tooth and nail for them. Gas per gallon is over 2 dollars a gallon at the end of Obama's first term then they were at the end of Bush's second term. The national debt has reached a point under Obama's watch that were now all working and paying taxes just to pay off the interest on the debt every year.


Stick a fork in Obama.... he's done. His wife and kids are going to have to start coping with the fact that they need to shop at Wal-Mart unless Daddy can write another book. No more $75,000 helicopter rides to Broadway plays for the Obama family.



TO ANYBODY HERE WHO THINKS OBAMA SHOULD GET A SECOND CHANCE..............

What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times? How would another 4 years of an Obama administration that wasn't concerned with being reelected make ANYTHING better for any of us?

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
But seriously.... Mitt IS going to win in November. There is NO QUESTION about that.

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I assure you otherwise.
Kind of ironic they seem bent on running a candidate I have enough hard evidence to put in jail, hands down no bullshit.
The only thing about it what surprises me is that all the parties handed that evidence on a silver platter haven't seen fit to make any use of it yet, but maybe they're just feedin em rope.

Seriously, you also underestimate the bitter and volatile HATRED of the GOP which is boiling in the social-public kettle, just cause the only visible manifestation now is a few bubbles popping at the top, don't underestimate the turgid and roiling waters at the bottom - conditions in this country right now are all too damn similar to those just prior to the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror.

Seriously Jack, look up Robespierre and tell me we're not on the cusp of that kind of thing now.

-Frem

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Hey Frem,

I guess this is one of the few things we actually disagree on.

Don't get me wrong... I HATE that Romney is the candidate of choice, but there's no way I'm voting for Ron Paul when it would help Obama get back in.

I'm sure you could put his ass in jail if you tried. What politician couldn't you say that about. I'd guess, not many, if you dug deep enough.

Maybe this is Robespierre all over again. Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind that Romney's the freakin' anti-christ. I always said that the only reason an untested black dude with very limited political experience who was "born" from the most corrupt state and county in the entire friggin country got elected presedent was because Bush seemed to do everything he could in 8 years to make the world hate America, white people, Christians, and anyone who actually was smart enough to be successful enough to live a good life without government help.

Who's to say that Obama didn't just pave the same path to make idiots like me vote for Satan in 2012????

Bottom line, I'm not at all celebrating a Romney victory, except for the fact that Obama is OUT!


You may not like it, even I may not like what's going to happen. Almost everybody else posting in this thread surely isn't going to like it. But it's DONE. OBAMA IS OUT!!!!!

All I can do is sit back and Hope for some Change.

If things ever get really bad, I know guys like you and me are capable of more than a little "terror" of our own as last resorts when our backs are against the wall.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.

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What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times?

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. But all them puppeteers we love to hate were every bit as indoctrinated as their followers. Blame is simply a flawed concept at its core.

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I blame myself.

Seriously though HK, when do we get to a point where we EXPECT people to THINK? To REASON? To DEMAND logic? The poor, the uneducated, ok- free pass, but dorks like Hero & AU??? I'm with Story here; no excuse.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Originally posted by Storymark:
How stupid are you, Rappy? Really? I ask in all seriousness - because Im having trouble believing someone who can read is stupid enough to believe half the crap you post.

You keep saying the real attacks on women come from the left - and all you do is trot out the same Maher quote, from what 4 years ago - while there are literally DOZENS of examples, with more being added by the fuckin DAY - of attacks on women from the right.

I know you can't help but stand up for the GOP no matter what.... but really, can you be THAT fucking deluded??

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Bristol Palin to Barack Obama: 'When should I expect your call?'

Bristol Palin, daughter of former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, has a simple question for President Obama: "When should I expect your call?"

"You don’t know my telephone number, but I hope your staff is busy trying to find it," she wrote in an open letter to the President posted on her blog Sunday.

She added:

Ever since you called Sandra Fluke after Rush Limbaugh called her a slut, I figured I might be next. You explained to reporters you called her because you were thinking of your two daughters, Malia and Sasha. After all, you didn’t want them to think it was okay for men to treat them that way

Palin then quoted the President's own words: “One of the things I want them to do as they get older is engage in issues they care about, even ones I may not agree with them on,” he said. “I want them to be able to speak their mind in a civil and thoughtful way. And I don’t want them attacked or called horrible names because they’re being good citizens.”



http://www.examiner.com/article/bristol-palin-to-barack-obama-when-sho
uld-i-expect-your-call?cid=PROD-redesign-right-next

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
If anyone is hoping for change, from Obama or his replacement, they're going to be seriously disappointed.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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What has he done for us, other than take the debt I hated Bush Jr. for above all other things and multiplied it by 10 times?

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And of course you have cites to back up such claims, right?



Anyone?


Care to show me where Obama has pushed the debt to 119 trillion dollars?

The GAO says Obama's added a bit more than $2 trillion to the debt, which was more than $11.9 trillion by the time Bush's last fiscal year ended.

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2000 236.4 Billion Dollar Surplus 303.86 Billion Surplus D R R - Clinton
2001 127.3 Billion Dollar Surplus 158.93 Billion Surplus R D R - Bush
2002 157.8 Billion Dollar Deficit 194.1 Billion Deficit R D R - Bush
2003 374 Billion Dollar Deficit 449.52 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2004 413 Billion Dollar Deficit 483.61 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2005 319 Billion Dollar Deficit 361.27 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2006 248 Billion Dollar Deficit 272.23 Billion Deficit R R R - Bush
2007 162 Billion Dollar Deficit 172.89 Billion Deficit R D D - bush
2008 455 Billion Dollar Deficit 467.63 Billion Deficit R D D - bush
2009 1416 Billion Dollar Deficit 1459.79 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2010 1294 Billion Dollar Deficit 1312.37 Billion Deficit D D D - Obama
2011 1299 Billion Dollar Deficit 1299 Billion Deficit D D R - Obama

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Chrissy - Mr Little Bitty Model Builder, calling anyone a 'dork' ? Too gorram funny!

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Might I again say that the house I'm living in now was valued much differently in 2005.

In 2005, the previous owners bought it for 145k.

In 2011, I bought it, in many needs of repairs, for 67k.

Without bothering to look up the exact gas prices of the days, a VERY conservative estimate would say that back when Bush Jr was president I could have bought at least 60,000 gallons of gas on his watch in trade for my house.

Today, I'd be lucky to get 15,000 gallons of gas for what I paid for it.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Might I again say that the house I'm living in now was valued much differently in 2005.

In 2005, the previous owners bought it for 145k.

In 2011, I bought it, in many needs of repairs, for 67k.

Without bothering to look up the exact gas prices of the days, a VERY conservative estimate would say that back when Bush Jr was president I could have bought at least 60,000 gallons of gas on his watch in trade for my house.

Today, I'd be lucky to get 15,000 gallons of gas for what I paid for it.

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I'm not sure you can lay the blame for the house devaluation with the Obama administration, seeing as how he inherited an economy ready to blow. Not even the most conservative of commentators can lay the GFC at his feet.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
And I notice yet again that you dont have the balls to even discuss the comments this thread is about.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


And as this is a fully contrived and empty issue, I'm done with discussing it any further.

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Curious, how much do you get paid to act this stupid?


It's a fine performance, I must say.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Observations: Story defines "War on Women" as the attempted changes in women's reproductive rights and privelidges. Raptor defines "War on Women" as personal attacks on certain women.

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Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Yeah, the times they are a changin'. And to see idiots like AU & Hero acting all happy-happy-love-my-world as it begins to erode in front of their eyes makes me nuts. It's the whole "We don't torture" mentality all over again, and I've had it with disconnected shitheads. If there just wasn't so damn many of them...

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Originally posted by RionaEire:

Raptor calling Chris a dork for making models is silly because this is a geek website full of people who love such things and who probably wish they were talented enough to build models like Chris does.

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Why thanks Rio!
As a quick sidebar for Trek fans, here's what I'm doing as of this moment- a Star Trek V/VI phaser:



Close to finishing!

Okay, back to the arguing.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for proving his point so effectively, Hero.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for proving his point so effectively, Hero.

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SO you agree that he is completely unable to argue his own cause.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Most of this thread has nothing to do with the actual issues. It's just different people attacking other people because they don't support the same causes and/or political beliefs.

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Ironically you've just summed up women's issues, the civil rights movement, gay marriage, the economy, illegal immigration, the Arab-Isreali conflict, the war on terror, and the Cleveland-Pittsburg football rivalry.

But if you want to talk about women's issues it comes down to a few things:

1. Reproductive rights. Abortion is legal, one side likes it, the other side does not. Both sides are wrong (says me, I argue its legal, but not really but we can't ban it...yet).

2. Equal pay. One side wants it in writing. That side does not pay its female employees equally. The other side thinks that females are generally paid equally and when not its because of their life choices (see Reproductive rights).

3. Sexual harrassment. One side says its bad regardless of proof, the other side says its bad but wants proof. (I just wish women would stop treating me like a sex object...)

4. Jobs. Female participation in the workforce has declined dramatically under President Obama to its lowest levels in decades. One side says we need to address this, the other side wants to ignore it along with all negative jobs data.

5. Gas prices. One side says they need to be higher, the other side says they need to be lower. Single mothers struggling with kids and employment see more of their limited income going into their cars at the gas pump and on grocery store shelves.

6. The Bachelor. One side would watch anything other then that show, the other side can't live without it.

7. Mom's. One side says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad, the other side says its good. (I'd make a MILF comment but people might take it the wrong way. I know a number of MILFs, some stay at home, others work...all are pretty hot so this tells me I'm a moderate on the should MILFs work issue.)

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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So you are reduced to personal attacks. Angry, bitter, and ultimately pointless personal insults and profanity. Might as well make a sign "Intellectually bankrupt, will work for new outlook on life." Only you don't really want to work...liberals want us to work for you.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your numbers are wrong; I'd double-check your sources, because I think they might be *a little* biased. Somehow, they managed to completely leave the $780,000,000,000.00 TARP bailouts completely off the 2008 numbers.

How'd that happen? Did they just do like right wingers always do, and blame it on Obama?

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Originally posted by Storymark:
You truely are a piece of shit lawyer.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Good job, Jack. I certainly understand how you feel, and share most of your feelings. For me it doesn't come down to numbers as much, tho'; I see it as Bush having run this country SO far into a ditch that I don't think anyone could possibly get it OUT without spending many times what he did just to do so. Just how I see it. I don't know how to calculate stuff like that, so I don't know how much of it is actually Obama's "spending" as opposed to leftover results from Bush, either. I guess to me it just started with Bush, it got SO much WORSE under Bush, it landed us in the Great Recession and I don't know how all of that could be "fixed" in three years.

We'll both get tarred and feathered for it here, but I agree about Hillary; I think she'd have been more savvy, had more political weight, and wouldn't have tried to compromise as much. I'm betting money she'd have gotten a LOT more done while they had House and Senate, and a 60-seat majority, as well as being more able to keep the deficit from spiralling as it has. I could be wrong, but it's the feeling I got. I didn't vote for her in the primary any more than for Obama, but looking back, I should have. They're political players at least, the Clintons, and Bill's popularity (and political might) would have been better than Obama's naïveté. JMHO

Nonetheless, I have to add that I think it would be even WORSE under McCain.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Jack, I guess it comes down to individual impressions and one's priorities. I know the national debt started way before Bush, it's just that he made it SO bad that I think in terms of him as having "started it" (I guess meaning started the real horror of it increasing so MUCH...or something!).

I don't have kids, thank gawd. I decided at 17 that I never would--and that I would never marry. I only married to put my husband on my dental plan at work, or I never would have. He has two kids, luckily they're middle aged now, tho' one of them has a teenaged daughter, and I worry for her. Not just over this, believe me...I happen to think ecology will harm her far worse than our debt!

As to "it will be the ultimate determining factor in our position in the world in the near term and way beyond in the future" however, I have to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, it will be EDUCATION, which is where we've fallen way, way behind and which will keep us from being competitive. Education costs money, definitely, but it also MAKES money, and since we're in the process of doing everything possible to destroy education in America...from making it a private enterprise to the concept that wanting a college education makes one a "snob" (unbelievable!), I see it getting worse LONG before it starts getting better...by which time, I don't think swe'll ever catch up.

I'm not as glued to the money as you are; for me it's a MUCH wider picture. So much bad is going on, from government accountability/representation to environment to social issues/freedom/rights to military to of course education to economic divide to, to, to...there are too many "to"s to enumerate. I certainly understand how you feel, tho', believe me!

As to my response, I TRY to respond in the same manner as the person to whom I'm responding to...unfortunately past interactions sometimes get in the way, but I DO try! I don't think I've ever lumped you in with what I consider our irrational righties, at least I don't remember doing so; I DO tend to see you as pissed off at both sides from time to time, not glued to either ideology.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Jack, you're still making the same simple-headed math error the Bush boys tried to sell us: You're taking Bush's numbers as if they were fact, and I don't believe you've got your sources right. It was widely reported that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were adding hundreds of billions to the deficit and the national debt, and that it was being done "off the books" via emergency measures pushed through Congress, and I don't see any of that spending reflected in the numbers you're choosing to represent as real.

Where are the wars?

Where is the national debt?

Bush more than doubled our debt in 8 years, from under 6 trillion to nearly 12. Obama has added nowhere near that.


I've been doing my own taxes for more than 30 years. So fucking what? You're still doing that thing where you think you can impress me with your "achievements"; I'm talking about your FACTS. You don't have your facts straight, and that's the simple truth.

Your entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, Hero proved the point perfectly, especially given his "quote" about Occupy, which must come from some conservative "other world" or something.

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1. NOBODY "likes" abortion, not that they'll ever get that. One side thinks it should be the woman's choice what to do with her body; the other side thinks government should be in charge of denying it. It may be "legal" according to federal law, but it's been made virtually unobtainable OR illegal by many methods, state by state.

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2. There would have to be viable proof of the statement that one "side" doesn't pay female employees equally. I thought the decision of what to pay an employee was made by individuals; are all those individuals from one "side"? I call bullshit.

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3. I won't go into sexual harassment except to say that perhaps one side gives the benefit of the doubt to people who claim it and the other side tends to think they're lying.

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4. As has been clarified multiple times in multiple places by multiple people, female participation in the work force ALWAYS declines more than male participation in a recession; women get laid off more when times are bad (see #2).

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5. Which "side" exactly is it that says gas prices should be higher? Some PEOPLE have said that, but they represent a minority and don't reflect the majority opinion of EITHER "side".

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6. I will agree; never seen it, never will.

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7. Wow. Which side exactly says that being a stay-at-home mom is bad??

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Originally posted by Hero:

Your thinking "it was just that one lady". I'm thinking "hmmm...I've heard this before". NOW I wonder where I've heard those kind of comments from...NOW if only I could remember.

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In 2010 56% of women had jobs down from 75% in 2000 and 73% in 2008 (from Abc news).

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Clearly that means that under Obama, stay-at-home moms increased nearly 20% from 2008, something which you're also clearly against.

Why does the right hate stay-at-home moms?

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Six posted:


Seriously Kwicko...

I don't know where to start...

I don't want to fight you like some of the hard core "R"'s here do....

But you fight me constantly like a hard core "D"

What was not conclusive about what I posted before????

You mention the EVIL debt that W thrust upon us, but you seem to negate the exponential debt thrust upon us by his successor.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Clearly that means that under Obama, stay-at-home moms increased nearly 20% from 2008, something which you're also clearly against.

Why does the right hate stay-at-home moms?

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The same article notes that it is not their choice...why does the left oppose a woman's right to choose?

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

OBAMA = THE END OF AMERICA

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