War on Men by BYTEMITE

Anthony is right, don't do it. Note to self: anecdotes are not inherently good suggestions.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 7:54 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Two people die every second. A woman is america is raped once every day. Children are beaten. Animals are slaughtered. Ultimately the fate of every person and living thing is to become food for something else. Memories are forgotten. It is impossible to express the amount of pain and suffering that exists in this world, and I am immoveable in my certainty that there is something terribly wrong with it.

Hello,

I will second your perception that there is something terribly wrong with the world. I hope we improve it (improve ourselves?) and make it better.

However, it's important to note some statistics that are too innumerable to be counted. How many people laugh every second? Smile? How many people achieve joy during intercourse in a mutually agreeable relationship? How many satisfying warm hugs and kisses are shared? How many times does one person reach out to another? How many times does one person tell another that they are loved?

I love you, Byte.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 8:25 PM

...

Anthony. I know what I am and what it must be like to have to deal with me. Please stop.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 8:36 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...

Anthony. I know what I am and what it must be like to have to deal with me. Please stop.

Hello,

Forgive the Scorpion, Byte. It is in my nature to want you to be happy, and to value and cherish you.

Perhaps my imperfect knowledge of you allows me to love you. Perhaps if I truly understood you, I'd recoil in horror at the naked monster.

Or perhaps I'd love you anyway.

You don't have to cheer up, Byte. I offer warmth absent conditions. I feel you'd react little better to a hug than to the advances of a tentacular beast.

But I hug you anyway, with the parts of me that can't touch your skin. Please accept my apologies and my best wishes for you.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 8:43 PM

I'm sorry for attacking your happiness, I try to avoid that - yes, I actually do try to stop myself from saying things that are likely to upset people, and yes, some of it (lots?) slips through.

Not a big fan of hugs. And I'm sorry for that too. I recommend hugging someone else.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 9:43 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... not concerned about appearance, not considerate of others ..." OTOH I could spin this another way. Not concerned about trivialities, and able to grasp the essentials better. In this instance, it seems to me it depends on the narrative you put on it.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:03 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BYTE: Women choose a cleaner death because they're the ones usually doing the cleaning, and they don't want to leave a mess. Seriously.

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At this point, I'm pretty sure he would never admit to anybody that he never read it. Not only do you do great work, but you're a scary dude to anyone who might want to pick on somebody. Most Management positions are chosen because they know how to use the stick.

And when NOT to - I've only ever brought out "The Stick" (as in what the property manager calls "Scary Mode") three times, and she got to watch two of em, the second being some religious zealot who would not LEAVE and made the mistake of pulling his schtick while I was in the office paying rent...
He LEFT, oh yes he did... I think it scared her worse when I started giggling as he highstepped it down the road after I was done mortifyin him.

Anyhows, the whole application thing, and WHY he never read it, will amuse you.

See, here's how that went, really - I started out as a merc subbing for another security company which wanted the contract, but didn't have no one else on this end of town to fill it, you see, so they fronted it off to me and took a cut, which was ok for the time since driving a cab had fallen through thanks to Englers sabotage and crazy fuel prices, see ?

And having broke up with my ex and wanting to get the hell out of the way so she could marry the dude I was completely down with her marrying - I moved into Site Three.
Seriously, I LIKE the guy, and he has the emotional depth and connection I could never give the poor girl, so I am kinda defaulted to brother-in-law, which so works... hell, I'm the one teaching him how to drive a car, fer cryin out loud.

The owner of this place was REAL skeptical when he did the background for the rental app, see I have more than one legal name, due to family issues I won't go into, and that's not unlawful without intent to defraud, but anyhows he was suspicious as hell, guy comes out of nowhere, no credit history, no background info, no proof of even EXISTENCE, but he let it go since the property manager pointed out I really did a good job of the work, and a COMPLETE job, not just on-the-clock minimum, but eyeballing local crime trends, intimidating local yahoos, the whole works.

Now, previously, the services they hired were unreliable as hell, wouldn't show up, wouldn't DO the damn job, nothing but a pain in the ass, and thus already suspicious, he started to wonder about whether I was actually doing the job or just rigging the punch clock or something, and so he'd sweep through here during that time and try to catch me out - only he NEVER, EVER saw me, never not once.
And EVERY time, I flagged his car, timestamped it and (just to be a smartass) threw in a description of what he was wearing on top of that.

So, week and a half of that, he finds out from the property manager, who he'd intended to bitch to about me being a no-show, and craps a brick... "So we have a pet ninja?", and this combined with a few rumors and that whole no-background he got the idea I might be a retired intel goon, which is not TOO far from the truth, and trying to convince him otherwise would be futile.

Well, said company pulled one too many fast ones, like trying to overbill repeatedly, no-showing court dates (and *I* did show, and he paid me himself for that when they failed to), and finally on the fourth of July sending a backup guard who managed to so COMPLETELY offend the property manager she demanded he remove himself from the property, and when he refused, she AND the manager of that company called me on both phones to then physically EJECT him if necessary, and I chased him outta there all but pissing himself in terror - it's one of only three times the property manager has ever seen me pull out the scary, and that was the first one, hooo boy.

Shortly after that, the owner of this place voided their contract, and cut a deal with me personally, and THAT mini-company blew up on us when half the crew wanted to go work for TSA/DepHomeSec, thinking my refusal was ridiculous and my comments on their actions and integrity were exaggeration...
Mind you, a couple of em came back later begging for work after being fired and blackballed for not toeing the line, but you CAN'T hire a "shaved ape" (security who has failed/betrayed their contract) and I wouldn't do so anyway since no doubt one of em would be a ringer on the DHS payroll trying to doubledip and sabotage/spy on us, so eff em.

And so, in order to leverage better insurance and health coverage, we made the new corp a subchapter of the realty corp, so technically I am now the commander of a realty companys private army, more or less, such as it is, meh.
For legal authority reasons, although my people are paid out of the subcorp, the owner of this property himself signs my checks - this shortcuts any notion of whether or not I get to use his full authority here if I have to, mostly that extends to throwing people off the property, which cops can get really snippy about with guards cause of debate as to whether or not they HAVE that authority, you see.
In fact my authority on-site is prettymuch absolute, *only* the owner can countermand me, and it's ill-advised to wake him up to try.

Plus my personal contract gives me a wide latitude since my official orders are to ensure the safety and security of this property, the residents thereof and their own personal property - which I am given to interpret in whatever fashion I think best...
Which means if your car breaks down, your cat gets out, you get stuck in the snow, need medical aid, got rowdy neighbors, too drunk to get to your doorstep, prettymuch ANYTHING I can shove into that interpretation I'll do for them, save that maintanence issues get relayed to the maintanence crew, and emergencies they have their own line for.
One thing for damn sure though, you make trouble here, create a threat or serious disturbance, and you will regret it, cause it don't stop with chasing them out, I'll hound them, get my thumb on em and grind, grind, grind, muckrake em deep and fly their dirty laundry like a flag, to the press, local law, family, enemies - it's just absofuckinlutely NOT worth it to mess with this place.

Oh the glorious irony, too - you know I write a lot of these in between walkin the rounds, neh ?
Well there's a tow truck driver who's gonna get a lecture from his boss soon as that boss gets an official fax from the owner of this place, report appended, on our displeasure with him deciding to sit in the middle of our complex at 1:22am with his engine and lights breakin our calm and have a half hour long conversation with some girl, and then give me shit about it when I politely asked him to move along.

Anyhows, the local yahoos KNOW all this, and as such not only stay away but warn newbies and outsiders off too, so I've effectively turned the local criminal element into a secondary line of defense.

Add to that the whole appearing out of nowhere trick, scary cyborg stories (since none of em wants to ADMIT being snuck up by an old man with a gimpy leg) and the local rumor mill, well... heheheh.

The owner is happy as a clam, this place went from half-empty to five month waiting list, and the longterm residents leave me offerings on the doorstep, mostly candy and tobacco, occasionally pastry.
And me being the lazy bastard I am, being able to suit up, step out the door and do the job - and after just walk right in here and toss the uniform in the laundry, well, that's a nice touch.

The money is bleh, but it puts food on the table with a bit left over, which is more than most people got these days.

-Frem

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I tried to think back to times I'd been unhappy before. There were several. And then I thought of times I'd been happy. It turned out that unhappy times had eventually been followed by happy times. Sometimes these times weren't even separated by much space.

That, right there.
THAT, is often the entire bloody REASON I do nice things for people, so that they HAVE those happy moments to lift them up and comfort them when the world looks so dark.
And sometimes I'll take that pretty far - remember the dollhouse I built, yes ?

-F

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Saturday, May 19, 2012 10:58 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I remember.

Strange thing about that.

The moments of joy we create for others has an insidious way of also becoming our own.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 3:10 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

How many times have you considered suicide in your life?

If greater than zero, what methods have you considered and why?

*Considered*?

Heck, I've had days when I was driving down the freeway and looked longingly at a bridge abutment... Why? Because it was Tuesday.

I sought - and received - help with that. That's my depression; that's how it manifests. One little thing gets wrong with brain chemistry, and suddenly the most drastic of acts becomes no more incidental to you than tying your shoes, and worthy of about as much thought.

It's not that I want to die, but when my depression visits, I have a hard time thinking of reasons NOT to. One day I may lose that fight, but not this day.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 7:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wondered.... often... what would happen if I had a car "accident"? Thought... often... "Well, at least I get a chance to rest!" That's what comes from taking care of one dying, one mentally disabled and one chronically sick family member.

Most of us have burdens. Thanks to our dog-eat-dog society we get to struggle with them alone. No wonder our society has so many mentally and emotionally crippled people.

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Sunday, May 20, 2012 8:18 AM

I agree. There's probably susceptibility involved here, as some people in this society do seem to be emotionally fine, but the society creates stressors which exacerbate nascent problems.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 8:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Strange thing about that.

The moments of joy we create for others has an insidious way of also becoming our own.

Not strange at all, this is entirely deliberate.

Quote:
All witches are selfish, the Queen had said. But Tiffany's Third Thoughts said: Then turn selfishness into a weapon! Make all things yours! Make other lives and dreams and hopes yours! Protect them! Save them! Bring them into the sheepfold! Walk the gale for them! Keep away the wolf! My dreams! My brother! My family! My land! My world! How dare you try to take these things, because they are mine!

(Note, Manga is read right-to-left)

-Frem

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Monday, May 21, 2012 9:49 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, to answer your questions:

Twice. The first time I was a teenager, and had my upcoming wedding fall through. Long story, basically the guy got cold feet briefly, and cut off communication with everyone, including his own family (he was in the Navy and out of state). He got over it, but by then I was a hippie and on speed; after coming home and finding me thus, he moved to Washington and did a lot of drugs.

Given I'd never been on a date until I met him and believed nobody would ever want to marry me, it was a devastating blow. I didn't "contemplate", I didn't give it any thought at all, I just "felt". I took sleeping pills from mom's bathroom cabinet; I just didn't want to "feel" anymore. Ended up only sleeping for two days straight; never told anyone then. After that I decided never to marry. Still wouldn't have, as I've said, if I hadn't wanted to put Jim on my dental insurance. It just didn't matter to me.

The second time was out of bipolar depression. As Mike said: "It's not that I want to die, but when my depression visits, I have a hard time thinking of reasons NOT to." Not much thinking or planning went into it; I banged my head against the wall enough times to put a hole in the wall (which is still there in the bathroom to remind me); didn't work so then started cutting. Didn't have the guts to cut my wrists, and the cutting eased the urge. I was very grateful it hadn't worked once the depression left.

I have every intention of offing myself if I outlive Jim. Not until I have no more dogs, and whether I'll do it or not of course nobody can tell, but I've no family so see no reason to end up old and useless and alone. It doesn't bother me at all to contemplate it, and when the time comes, I will probably have no difficulty stashing away enough pills to do it properly. I don't give a shit what I look like. I've been blessed with a pretty damned good life and had the opportunity to experience things others haven't, so I'm content.

At neither time did how I looked or what kind of corpse I would leave or how clean anything was cross my mind even once. I don't think anyone who hasn't gotten close enough to actually picking up something with which to end their life can judge those who have. I reject that women (or at least the vast majority of them) choose the methods they do in order to look good. I'm sure some do, but I've known a few bipolars who tried it (and a couple who succeeded) and none of them had how they'd look on their minds. It depends on the person and is totally personal.

I know some have sliced their wrists in the bathtub so as not to leave a mess--that speaks to how they feel about themselves. I knew one who called his wife from a pay phone and shot himself while she was on the phone--the reasoning behind that is obvious. I know one who was arrested because she took a tire iron to a pharmacist who wouldn't give her enough pills to kill herself. That's pure bipolar psychosis. That's usually how we bipolars go...when depression hits it's exactly like Mike said; intense feelings and all of what Byte said--we literally cannot contemplate anything positive. Literally. It's part of our brain chemistry. The right meds usually stop it.

All this conjecture is interesting, but as I said, nobody can truly answer unless they've tried; those who were successful obviously cannot answer. I think the reasons people choose and the methods they choose are very personal and generalizations don't mean much.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 10:30 AM

Quote:
At neither time did how I looked or what kind of corpse I would leave or how clean anything was cross my mind even once. I don't think anyone who hasn't gotten close enough to actually picking up something with which to end their life can judge those who have. I reject that women (or at least the vast majority of them) choose the methods they do in order to look good. I'm sure some do, but I've known a few bipolars who tried it (and a couple who succeeded) and none of them had how they'd look on their minds. It depends on the person and is totally personal.

Neither have I, but that doesn't mean that it's not a factor on some level with other women. I suspect if you never bought into the make-up fashion stuff to begin with and never DID care what you looked like and that aspect was NOT depression related, then of course you wouldn't START to care at that point.

Although I do love how people assume away about what I have and haven't done, and also them and their comments about how judgmental I am. Provoking me into spilling my heart off the board then laughing at me and ignoring me. Well. I guess I really am as pathetic as I think I come across - none of you even think I have the guts to do it. I'm going to enjoy proving you all wrong.

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Monday, May 21, 2012 10:42 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

How many times have you considered suicide in your life?

If greater than zero, what methods have you considered and why?

I don't think Ive ever been low enough that I actively considered it, nor any methods.

I did once get so depressed, for a number of months, during which I recall hoping that an opportunity would arise to have it happen "by accident". A bus passing by, a little too close to the sidewalk, a trigger happy mugger, whatever - I could never conceive of doing myself in, but I could conceive of not bothering to stop it if it came by other means.

If that makes sense.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, May 21, 2012 3:00 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

On the other hand, I am suspicious of anyone who describes their sex as 'oppressed providers.'

not to defend these guys, because i think they whine a little, but you could i think describe slaves as "oppressed providers"

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Monday, May 21, 2012 3:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
The money is bleh, but it puts food on the table with a bit left over, which is more than most people got these days.

-Frem

Goddam Frem.....

Your devotion to your work speaks volumes to your character. I thank only my peripheral vision for not being caught reading books while I was on guard duty in my car when I wasn't listening to the Cubs games or talk radio.

I wish I could be the baddass like you, but even when I was a 24 year old 210lbs at only 5'7" of brick shit house with all of my original parts, I still felt like a chiwawa in the body of a bulldog. I don't like fighting, particularly the physical aspect of it, although even arguing in real life is something I'd rather just walk away from. That's really my ONLY reason for being such a dick in the RWED sometimes I guess. It gives me an audience to be my worst...

If things ever really get bad, I'd hope to be able to live up to my expectations to be what you have been when things weren't that bad for most.

Like I've said before, you're a good man, whether you want to admit it or not. I'm sure there is some things you never want to discuss that make you feel you need to fulfill this role now as your own crosses to bear, but as 2Pac said, only God can judge you now.

When St. Peter is debating your entry into Heaven, feel free to use me as a reference to your Character.

I might have a few demons in the past I need some explaining for myself, and it may be a few decades or so after your passing even with all my drinking and smoking, so don't hold it against me if you have to spend a decade or two in purgatory before the pearly gates open wide for you and you live a new life of steak and mashed potatoes, 18 year old supermodels with wings that never age a day and the perpetual libido of a 12 year old.

Or.....

Whatever your definition of Heaven is anyway

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:09 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

On the other hand, I am suspicious of anyone who describes their sex as 'oppressed providers.'

not to defend these guys, because i think they whine a little, but you could i think describe slaves as "oppressed providers"

Hello,

But I don't think we would describe men as slaves.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:23 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Actually, Byte, I bought WHOLE HOG into the makeup and clothes thing during my working life! I've got a "thing" about color coordination...it even extends to the signs I make for Occupy, and has in everything I've ever done. So I went the whole route--makeup that matched my outfit that matched my jewelry that matched my 6" high heels!

Admittedly, the first time was before soon after I "discovered" makeup (I started wearing it when Clark and I first got together...to look pretty for him, of course), and the second time was long after my working life was over and I'd stopped using makeup or dressing up or giving a shit about what others thought of me, but I don't think that had anything to do with it anyway.

Hon,

Quote:
I'm going to enjoy proving you all wrong.

That's an attitude which is really sad and totally wrong. Nobody here is important enough for it to matter what they think of you, and we don't think of you the way you think we do anyway. That's the attitude of the guy I knew who blew his brains out on the pay phone, and yes, it was horribly devastating to his wife and daughter...especially the daughter, who blamed her mom for years afterward. She got into all kinds of trouble, drugs, etc., and it wasn't until years later her mother was able to reach her again and she got straightened out...after which, she and her mom were INCREDIBLY close, last I heard. They moved from the dirt-water town of Burley, Idaho up to Coeur d'Alene and we lost touch, but I was so glad they'd finally worked it out.

Obviously it wouldn't have that kind of effect on other people's families, but it would hurt SOMEONE terribly, and usually not those it was intended to hurt. I hope fervently that you're not serious, just in one of those moods again where you feel the way you described, and I'm here to tell you it's not true--there are some here who don't care enough about ANYONE else to be honest and decent with them, but it's by far not the majority of those here. I for one don't ignore you at all, I respond when I have something to say, I don't laugh at you at ALL...in fact I empathize all too easily on how you feel and express yourself frequently. I know how it is to feel that way, believe me! I hope you can bear in mind that it's your BRAIN making you feel that way, not reality. We all disagree from time to time, and we all have opinions of one another which might well be waaaay off the mark if we were to meet IRL.

Above all, I repeat: NOBODY here is important enough to give the ability to hurt us, we're just not.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:16 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
NOBODY here is important enough

Hello,

I think maybe everyone is. But maybe if we understood people better, we wouldn't get mad or frustrated or any of the rest of it. Or maybe we'd be free of all that if we just understood ourselves better.

But... important enough? If anyone is, if even one of us is, even if it's just us... then isn't everyone?

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:15 AM

I owe some apologies here. Spoken out of line to you and and Oonj and Anthony and Sig.

The thing about fashion-suicide was just speculative, it's not even necessarily what I think, I don't really have any investment in the idea.

For me life and death are just means to an end, and I do have something to prove. I need to make myself worthwhile, and there's only so many ways I can do that. In any case I'm not really helping anyone else talking like this.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Helping anyone else? How about you are helping us learn to communicate? You are touching those who care, so that they can express their concern? You are helping remind us that words matter? You remind us that we, too, shouldn't take what's said here personally--certainly not personally enough to affect our lives. You are showing us that SOME here can recognize their own fallibility and publicly acknowledge it.

You help in many ways, Byte, me especially. Don't ever think otherwise, pleae. I value your voice, as many here do, and don't ever want you to leave. And you are DEFINITELY worthwhile, little as you believe that!

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 8:31 AM

Well, I mean we might be triggering people by talking about this.

Also, I've hijacked this whole thread. I do that too much.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Neither have I, but that doesn't mean that it's not a factor on some level with other women. I suspect if you never bought into the make-up fashion stuff to begin with and never DID care what you looked like and that aspect was NOT depression related, then of course you wouldn't START to care at that point.

Although I do love how people assume away about what I have and haven't done, and also them and their comments about how judgmental I am. Provoking me into spilling my heart off the board then laughing at me and ignoring me. Well. I guess I really am as pathetic as I think I come across - none of you even think I have the guts to do it. I'm going to enjoy proving you all wrong.

Gorram Byte....

I didn't even notice this post until I read the last few posts on the board here. Don't take that as an insult, please... Anyone here can tell you that I'm one of the most self-centered people here.

If you're looking for "friends" on these boards, RWED is probably the last place to look. I admit that I got lucky in that regard and met up with Frem here, but other than that, this is all dog-eat-dog at best, and posting here is mindless self-indulgence at its most banal. Posting my LONG and thought out replies here 99% of the time would have been time better spent masturbating..... and I'm not even "kinda" joking about that.

I hesitated to post this reply to you because I didn't want to in any way "reward" your post with positive feedback.

But, I can't help myself to reply now though because I myself have lost 2 people dear to me in my life to suicide, and there is a third I feel responsible for who killed himself when a friend wanted to invite him to a new years eve party I was invited to but I said I couldn't because I was already a friend of a friend. I know I likely could no more have ultimately stopped them than I could have stopped my parents from divorcing, but I never even knew they felt that way until after it happened. I've also on more than one occasion considered the option myself in the past.

Really.... if you looked at a LOT of us who post here, we're not actually DOING ANYTHING to improve the Real World besides post our likely meaningless opinions about it.

(I believe the text-book definition of Insanity is to repeatedly do the same thing over and over and expect a different result, right????)

Why are any of the RWED regulars here? Why don't we spend half the time we're here doing more constructive things and branching out into the unknown?

Sure, there's our Righties and our Lefties here, and of course our in-betweeners

....

But at the end of the day, everyone you know here by name is totally F-D up on one level or another. They have to be. If we weren't, whatever hole we're trying to fill by posting in the RWED would already be satisfied and we'd have no time for this mindless Mickey Mouserey.....

Just remember Byte.... Your views are no more or no less valid than any other person's views in the RWED. If for whatever reason you're not getting replies to your posts, it's because (thankfully) your views aren't CRAZY enough to attract a complete polar opposite to them.

I always put the Individual above the crowd.

I may not be able to speak everyday, but if you need to talk to somebody about your issues, please send me a private PM and I will gladly speak with you about your life and your situation. If you don't do it for yourself, do it for me. And if you don't do it for me, do it for my Uncle, one of my oldest and dearest friends, and this guy I knew back in 8th grade that grossed all the girls out and never lived to see his 21st birthday when he spent his New Years Eve alone.

Sincerely,
~6

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:07 PM

DREAMTROVE

Anthony,

Most men in america work all day to pay the interest on debt that they can never repay. I'm not sure what else to call this condition. Ironic that the population most trapped in these circumstances are african americans. White americans are typically indentured for a number of years before they're able to pay off their student loans and mortage, though typically now more than the seven that their ancestors were obliged to serve.

Slavery never went away, it just evolved to be more discreet.

On suicide, i know why men are more successful at it, but I don't know if it should be said. I think that suicide is the result of a momentary lapse of reason, not a long term destination. It's like a short circuit. We built fault-tolerant systems for a while. You wouldn't want your computer to respond to a momentary loose connection by deleting all of your files. I don't know why we accept this for people.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:47 PM

Interest all day.... why not, right Anthony?

That's the example our unfeasible government sets for us on a daily basis, now spending 10 times more than can be afforded.

In a best-case scenario, I'd call it delusional. If you really want to call it what it is, we're all Meth Addicts....

Hell... even though I owe nobody nothing, that's not what China will think when they call in our personal debt for the national debt. As much as I "own" everything I have and have no debt in this "cloud", even after all the unfair cigarette taxes I've paid in the last decade, I owe the same 50-100k you owe per/person in national debt.

I hope the Chinese thugs come with baseball bats to break my legs, and I'll blow their kneecaps along with anything below them, off with my compact .45.

Just like a Chink to bring a baseball bat to a gunfight....

All I'll say while being tortured is my first and last name... my SS#... and that I'll NEVER be a slave!

I'd like to think we could defend ourselves from the Chinese when the day comes, but over 50% of Americans are so "fat" and lazy off the system that they wouldn't even know how to operate the safety. Meanwhile, a 4 year old Chinese Male is about as good a marksman as our top 80%.

Keep thinking we live in a bubble Lefties......

That's only the quickest way to wake up one day learning a foreign language and saying the pledge of Allegience to somebody halfway across the world.

I know you hate the Pledge of Allegience since the "God" concept was interjected (before I was born), but strip God out of it and we didn't have a bad thing here before we all collectively pissed all over it.

I'm just as guilty as you are

America is DEAD

God (or whatever athiest say in that situation say) help us......

OR...

Let me put the REAL situation to you in a nice way....

This is the end of the innocence people...

You, and everyone you know, are now either part of the solution, or you're part of the problem....

Stop beating your "party" drum and think for yourself.....

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012 4:56 PM

So, Six, who is it you're voting for?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:49 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think Byte meant it might be a subconscious thing, to not want to leave a messy corpse, maybe they don't think about it consciously, but maybe its so deep down. My considerations of the matter have always been tidy methods, because its harder for your family if you do it violently or messily, they have to see it.

Hi Byte, its Wed. and we're both still alive, you and me. I care about you and you're my good friend. And I like being your friend, I do it because I want to. I'm not everyone's friend, my annoying neighbor, I'm not friends with her because she drives me to distraction, even though I've known her since she was born. I don't believe I'll ever be her friend because she is the most annoying person. Friendship is a choice.

Maybe Oonj can be your nemesis the way Wish is my nemesis now. She was rather mean to you after all. But maybe she didn't understand. And even nemesises ... nemesisi? nemesi? can get along with each other when they both try. And, in all technicality, you started this thread, so posting on it a lot isn't really monopolizing it, since its yours anyways. Just sayin.

Niki I hope that you'll stick around after Jim dies, I can understand why you'd feel the way you do, but we would miss you, you're a nice person, and your step kids care about you, so it isn't technically true that you'll have no one left. I know what you mean though, we haven't given in yet, but we worry what if that day comes, when we do, when we can't do this anymore?

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:59 PM

Nemesis = singular.

Nemeses = plural.

That is all.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 3:37 PM

My Uncle did it in a very neat fashion, actually, and from what I heard, cleanup was a breeze. He blew his brains out in the garage after covering everything with visqueen. Unfortunately, his third and final "attempt" in life didn't go as well as he'd hoped, and he "survived" on life-support in the hospital with half a brain left for over a day before he finally died.

Not to sound callous, but I'm sure that was nearly half a million dollars of taxpayer dollars wasted in a 48 hour period since it was evident he WANTED TO DIE right away and they made him suffer over 24 hours more in what was probably excruciating pain that hopefully you and I will never experience in our lifetimes.

I hope even 1% of that bill was spent on heavy pain killers so he didn't feel any physical pain above and beyond any "spiritual" pain and/or remorse for his actions that he was probably going through if those faculty of his mind even existed anymore.

He always told me that the gun he did it with belonged to me when I died. I never got it. My Aunt immediately gave it to the local cops who said they were going to "melt it down". Yeah, right.... Somebody has a free beautiful six, shooter that Clint Eastwood would love now.

The strangest thing about everything though was that a "tackle box" of his stuff seemingly appeared out of nowhere 3 weeks after he died. Supposedly the cops got his "memoirs" and didn't release them to my family until a year later. But even though it took me 3 whole weeks to step foot in that house again, I found it. Inside, was 3 notebooks of his musings, every single CD I burned for him with our favorite music on it, a German knife he got from the war, a hatchet, and over an once of really fucking good weed.

No note to me though....

He didn't need to give me one, I knew this was left for me and me alone....

I loved him like a brother.

I just hope that if there really is a heaven that suicide isn't against the books for those who have been wanting to do it for over 40 years.

It's been over 5 years without him now. Everyone has moved on. Life goes on. I just wish he was still here.

Anyway, that being said.... Anything you do Byte, will never have that impact on me personally.....

And, likely, even some of your most closest friends and family will get over it in a surprisingly short amount of time.

But there will be AT LEAST one person in your life who will be f-d up for life if you aren't there anymore by your own hand.

Sorry to sound like a Rethug by posting this, but I think it's perfect for the situation...

"Somewhere out there you have a brother, sister, friend, grandmother, niece or nephew just dyin' to be with you....

You know there's out there who unconditionally, religiously loves you so just hold on 'cause you know it's true...."

Really Byte,

Don't hang out in the RWED if things are that bad in your mind.

This is an EVIL place......

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:26 PM

Quote:
But there will be AT LEAST one person in your life who will be f-d up for life if you aren't there anymore by your own hand.

Yup. I've known a few close friends who did themselves in. Some, I couldn't really call it unexpected, but Dan, my best friend on Earth, was out of the blue.

He went to the lake and shot himself in the head beside the water. That was seven years ago this July. I've not gotten over it.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 5:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

The phrase I think you're looking for is 'wage slave'.

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Anthony,

Most men in america work all day to pay the interest on debt that they can never repay. I'm not sure what else to call this condition. Ironic that the population most trapped in these circumstances are african americans. White americans are typically indentured for a number of years before they're able to pay off their student loans and mortage, though typically now more than the seven that their ancestors were obliged to serve.

Slavery never went away, it just evolved to be more discreet.

On suicide, i know why men are more successful at it, but I don't know if it should be said. I think that suicide is the result of a momentary lapse of reason, not a long term destination. It's like a short circuit. We built fault-tolerant systems for a while. You wouldn't want your computer to respond to a momentary loose connection by deleting all of your files. I don't know why we accept this for people.

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:00 PM

My own beliefs do not allow me to intervene in a suicide, provided it's an actual attempt and not just a cry for help that'll be heard no other way - if anything I am encouraged to assist such as is possible.
This is generally known amongst folk who know me, which means yeah verily I've seen my share, but beyond saying that I don't feel my discussin the concept would be helpful due to values dissonance.

I do feel the need to clarify one thing, about the image I posted - my dumb ass kinda forgot most people might not know where that's from.
That girl there - you know what she's defending with such courage ?

Quote:
Behind me, there is a garden, there are books and musical instruments.
The contents of my modest life...
Who are you to destroy that!?

A vegetable garden and a library.
It's all about what MATTERS to you.

-Frem

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Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:05 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Thanks Quicko.

Hi Kiki, I missed ya, glad you're back.

Jack, racial slurs don't become you.

I'm sorry about your best friend Quicko, I know I love mine and couldn't imagine losing them anytime soon. They say men don't love their best friends like women do, but I don't think that's true always.

Frem, how do you determine what's a cry for help and what's "genuine"? Is it really your place to determine that? I just want to understand how you justify this attitude.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:06 AM

It sounds like everyone's lost someone except for me. I'm sorry you guys, Jack, Kwicko, Frem, you guys have been through a lot. I've never really had any justification for any of this aside from trying to find meaning.

Jack - believe me, I know. I've actually estimated how long it would take everyone I know to get over it, and I put it at about 6 months, probably shorter, in most cases I suspect it would be a few days to a week. I'm not really close to anyone, which makes it really convenient. And it's not exactly like any of them would be surprised.

Niki: I think you've done far more in your life than I ever will. But, I know how you feel, not wanting to stick around to old age.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:49 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thanx for your kind thoughts, Riona. I have no regrets and no, I really don't have anyone. Jim's kids...well, Lisa's never been a very warm person and we're not close, and Jeff lives up in Jackson Hole and will never willingly live anywhere else. I only have one person in the world I'm close to, and that's my ex-ranger friend, Paula, who lives on the Eastern Sierras. We write, but only see each other once or twice a year; it would sadden her, but she'll understand. Nobody else will miss me...well, Choey will, but she'll understand, too, if she's still in my life, which she might well not be if she finds a guy and moves out. We don't have that much in common.

And believe me, Jim isn't going anywhere any time soon, so I might not even be here on FFF when the time comes, who knows?

Byte, I KNOW I've been blessed, believe me! Living in Afghanistan and traveling the world, having the chance to work at Marine Mammal Center, Marin Wildlife and Marineworld, my time folkdancing and at the Ren Faire, moving to Marin and hiking The Mountain, even you guys sending me to the Gulf, which memories I treasure...I've had opportunities many haven't--I haven't MADE most of them, but I've been blessed with them. Like I said, I know how lucky I've been and I have no regrets.

As to why we're all here, etc., I can't speak for anyone else. But for me it's my "socialization", and I get a lot of pleasure out of communicating, learning from and getting to know people. I'm pretty reclusive at this time in my life, and making new friends is more work than I'm willing to do. So I come here every morning and enjoy the intellient discussions, and don't let myself stay beyond noon except on rare occasions, usually not even that long. I don't think we're all effed up, I think many of us enjoy each others' company and enjoy discussing things, and it's not necessary to be screwed up to do that. Look at the TONS of hours people spend on line playing video games, or on Facebook--which is another form of socialization in its way, tho' even more removed. It's kind of a sign of the times, we've become isolated from each other in the real world, partly due to cell phones, the internet, etc. I'd rather be here than playing some game, which has NO social intereaction at all!

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Frem, how do you determine what's a cry for help and what's "genuine"? Is it really your place to determine that? I just want to understand how you justify this attitude.

Ain't so much a matter of "place", so much as it is trying to recognize the difference.
Most cry-for-help stuff is pretty obvious - ya kinda have to actually put BULLETS in the damn gun if you wanna shoot yourself, ridiculously insufficient doseage, stuff like that...
I did once date a girl with really, REALLY serious problems in my misspent youth who asked me to protect her from herself and overrode my refusal by calling in a solid, which left me no choice - she *did* really mean it but it was a moodswing temporary thing cause all her family docs were sayin there was nothing wrong with her rather than call her family on the abuse that messed her up so her issues went untreated, and I do admit to a certain black humor amusement when she tried to shoot me first (to mitigate my interference) and then herself only to learn that I had filed the firing pin of her .32 auto a little shorter - eventually I did feel the debt was paid and walked out on her though cause that kind of messed up is sort of contagious after a fashion, what they call secondary trauma as watching someone struggle starts making those taking care of them messed up too.

I figure it ain't my place to judge, but when someone is up to something that OBVIOUSLY will not finish them off, and when this is pointed out don't seem to care - that's usually something more complicated than a straight-up suicide.
Not comfy discussin this, but you deserved an answer.

-Frem

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It sounds like everyone's lost someone except for me. I'm sorry you guys, Jack, Kwicko, Frem, you guys have been through a lot.

When I think about all my friends who've died, it always brings Jim Carroll to mind...

"They were all my friends, and they died."

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:53 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Thank you Frem, that helps me understand better.

I've never lost someone super important either. My grandpa died 2 and a half years ago now, it was hard because I'd never lost a family member that I was reasonably close to. But he was 81 and even though it was sudden that's about when men usually die so it wasn't as shocking as it could have been. I cared about him, liked spending time with him, but we weren't really really close. I do miss him though. I'm pretty fortunate, I've got both my parents and my grandma left, she's 84 and very healthy so she won't die for a while.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:32 PM

I meant I haven't lost anyone to suicide. Cigarettes, aggressive lung cancer, and heart disease doesn't count. I miss my grandpa, never got to know my other two grandparents well, still have one grandmother who is pretty awesome and it'll be hard to lose her.

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It sounds like everyone's lost someone except for me. I'm sorry you guys, Jack, Kwicko, Frem, you guys have been through a lot. I've never really had any justification for any of this aside from trying to find meaning.

Jack - believe me, I know. I've actually estimated how long it would take everyone I know to get over it, and I put it at about 6 months, probably shorter, in most cases I suspect it would be a few days to a week. I'm not really close to anyone, which makes it really convenient. And it's not exactly like any of them would be surprised.

Niki: I think you've done far more in your life than I ever will. But, I know how you feel, not wanting to stick around to old age.

There's no fault for trying to find meaning in life Byte.

Skirting Death and Not Fearing the Reaper isn't a good avenue for it though. In my own experience with suicide related deaths, and my own psyche, I've come to realize that those who even contemplate it are so capable of empathy for others that they're the ones that need to weather out the storm to help those they care about in their lives that are less capable in any aspect have a happier life.

I've contemplated the option on several occasions in my own life. Even when I was in the hospital and was pumped for a 3% blood/alcohol level, my appointed psychiatrist was convinced that was an attempt, even tough I just thought it was 16 year old stupidity at the time.

Without going into detail about the aftermath, I'll just recommend that if you ever decide to go that route, a bottle of athletes foot powder, or a full month's prescription of Welbuterin mixed with alcohol is not the way to go. All I will tell you about that is a 30 day supply of Welbuterin in 5 minutes will make you feel "not so right" for at least the next 24 hours. I was completely unable to sleep, and I found that I could focus on one single thought for an hour at a time. (For a guy who has a billion things on his brain at any givin time, that's saying a lot). I HATED IT!!!!! The ONLY times I've ever felt worse in my life were on the down-swings of highs from the 2 times I did mushrooms and the 6 times I've done coke, but there was no "good feeling" before the bad.

Six months is really a stretch for most people you know. When my uncle killed himself, it was the first time I have EVER seen my dad tear up at the funeral. For all I know, he still thinks about his brother today, but he's not the type to really ever discuss his feelings. Everyone else seems to go on like nothing has happened and never mentions him, like they did 3 days after he died.

Nobody knew him like I did though. Even his brothers had never had hours long conversations with him about music or politics or pop culture. To everyone else he was an island, but while I was living at my Grams' house, we'd smoke a little weed and get drunk and we could talk for hours without ever running out of things to say. After I moved to Wisconsin for a great paying job, it was only 8 months later that he killed himself. I was in town that weekend for a Tom Petty concert but never made it to Gram's house. Looking back, I realize that the big hug he gave me the previous time we shared together was his way of saying goodbye. He was never a hugger.

When my dad called me on a Tuesday and I heard the tone of his voice, I knew what he was going to say before he said it............

But....

Even with all I'm telling you about him now, he'd have said that nobody in his life cared at all about him either and that he was never close to anyone. This wasn't because he was being a dick for the sake of being a dick. This was because he truly hated himself and finally did what he tried to do when he was only 8 years old and first attempted suicide.

Somebody does care about you that way Byte, and they're going to take it really hard for the rest of their life.

I'd sell my house today just to have him back. After a while, it felt like we were a team in cynicism and malcontent. Sure, that might not have been healthy, but we had each other's backs. I've got some good friends and I know if things ever got really bad my real Bro has my back but he's married and has his own things to deal with. There's something to say about having an ARMY trained guy you trust around who would jump on a grenade for you because he didn't have anything else better to do.

Of the 3 suicides in my life, this one hurts the most, even to this day. If I had this house back then, and he could just be free to roam and work a 20 hour a week 8 dollar an hour shift, he'd have lived here with no pressure until his liver gave out.

At least he got a proper burial at Arlington.....

RIP G.....

You were a better man than most will ever have the privilege of ever knowing....

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Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
There's no fault for trying to find meaning in life Byte.

Skirting Death and Not Fearing the Reaper isn't a good avenue for it though.

Really ?
It's always worked for me!

-F

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Friday, May 25, 2012 3:58 PM