REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Yesterday I met a vet

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, May 28, 2012 10:01
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Sunday, May 27, 2012 7:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


A young Marine vet came to our Saturday rally, in his fatigues, with a huge backpack and a couple of hand-made signs. Young guy, in his twenties. He started talking to me and a couple of others standing there with our signs, and it was quickly obvious how broken he was. After a short time he walked away and sat down on the bench with his head in his hands. I went over and sat with him...turned out he was crying. He'd done a tour in Iraq and two in Afghanistan, and it broke him. What broke him further was returning to the states to find the V.A. wasn't there for him. Wounded twice, still carrying shrapnel from the last one, he was obviously suffering from PTSD--the military had even admitted it in this case, then had him "treated" until he was "cured", and sent him back for another tour in Afghanistan.

He came home to no job, of course, his mother had died shortly before he was shipped home, and he couldn't get a job. He'd gotten a couple, but he said he made his co-workers uncomfortable, jumping at noises and having unreasonable bouts of anger, so he was let go. He couldn't go to the shelters anymore because he would wake up at night screaming (he said he tries not to sleep when he can manage it), and the V.A. had released him so he couldn't go back to the hospital to stay. They put him on meds (among them METHADONE, for heaven's sake?!?!) and they helped some, but he couldn't afford to stay on them with the little he got from the government each month. Marijuana helped, he said, it calmed him down, kept him from thinking somewhat, and helped with the pain. But he's from Texas, with a Texas driver's license, so couldn't get medical marijuana because he couldn't afford to see a doctor and isn't a California resident. He'd been hassled by the cops as homeless, even once for bumming a cigarette off someone in the City, so a marine friend had brought him to Marin. The friend was there and seemed to be relieved that I sat with him, said he'd be back in a while and walked off, no doubt to get a break.

There was no way I could think of to help him. He said aside from dope, the only thing that seemed to help was talking to people--that talking to a V.A. p-doc hadn't helped because they pigeon-holed him and their sympathy was fake. He'd tried suicide several times, twice considered "dead" but they resuscitated him, He said once he figured out how to do it "right" he would try again, that there was nothing left for him and he just didn't give a damn anymore. At one point he nodded to the other demonstrators and said they probably thought he was a freak, sitting there crying and talking crazy, and they had no idea what he'd been through. I don't either, of course, all I can do is extrapolate from what little I know and being familiar with Afghanistan, but mostly I just listened, held his hand and told him how pissed I was that our guys were treated like cannon fodder, and when no longer useful were tossed out like garbage and that he deserved so much better. Eventually I couldn't take it any more and was close to tears myself, the frustration was so bad, so I went over to a group of the other demonstrators--who of course asked me what was up with him. I told them, and said the only thing we can do for him is to be with him and let him talk. Several of them did, and stayed with him for a while.

Once I got myself better in hand, I went back and told him (once we were alone) that I, too, get medical marijuana, and when the demonstration was over I'd pop home and bring him some if he wanted. He promised to stay, and I did...bagged up half of the stash I bought to last me at least a year, some cigarettes (I roll my own these days), papers and a lighter, and went back. He seemed a bit better when I returned, and he said he'd managed to call his sister with someone's cell phone, and she was going to get him back to Texas and see if she couldn't get him some help.

Before I gave him the bag, I had him look me in the eye and promise me he wouldn't do anything to himself until it was ALL gone...dunno how long it will last, but maybe it will give him some surcease from his suffering in some small way, and time...maybe time is useless, but it's all I can give. It will last long enough for his sister to get the money together to get him home, anyway, so....all I can do is hope.

It tore me up, sent me home in tears, and I talked it out with Jim. I still see his face when I close my eyes, and the thought of how MANY there are like him...young men with their whole lives ahead of them who no longer have their "whole lives" ahead of them--or "whole" anything--good people who will probably never be whole again; people with no hope who signed up believing they were helping their country only to find they were tossed aside afterwards. It breaks my heart and makes me furious all at the same time, and the little that our efforts with Occupy do is so...little.

It was the same for many who came back from 'Nam, but those I knew at least came home to people who cared about them, and families, and getting a job was easier back then. Not that it ever would be, in the state he is in.

Damn our military. It's like drilling for oil; they've but massive amounts of money into new technology to let them drill deeper, in areas they couldn't drill before, but virtually NONE into technology to clean up their messes. The military spends billions to come up with new weapons--right down to that stupid F-22 I think it is?--that the Pentagon doesn't even WANT, that doesn't work, would be useless if it did given the way war is now, and is actually making the pilots sick. But how much are they willing to pay to patch our soldiers up once they come back home? Damned little!

The encounter won't go awy for a long time, and even tho' I felt all the feelings I do now before, the personal experience left me bereft and completely lacking in hope. It'll come back, or even without it I won't stop trying to do what I can, but I sure understand why people pick up a gun and go after the government!

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 7:18 AM

WHOZIT


You hippies treated Vietnam Vets pretty bad, now your in tears. Starting to feel for the people who fight in the wars our leaders start?

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 7:32 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY


You did a good thing and probably helped this guy more than you know, if more people were prepared to do the same your Vets might have an easier time adjusting to being back in the world.

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Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:07 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Jezus, Whatzit/Wulf, get off the "hippie" thing. We did more for our returning friends from 'Nam than the V.A. or the government EVER did! To begin with, the anti-war protests and marches is where we were, not in airports or anywhere else returning soldiers were seen in uniform. The people in THOSE places were middle-class travelers, etc., and believe me, there were far more "regular" people against the war than there were "hippies", largely because there were FAR fewer of us than "history" remembers! Second, from my own personal experience, we supported the troops, just not the war. Third, you and Wulf are idiots who know absolutely nothing about the '60s or the Vietnam War, you just love using "hippies" as a pejorative (look it up).

For others who might wonder, however, in response to the question "Did Hippies really spit on Vietnam vets?" from 2004:
Quote:

It wasn't just hippies who would spit on Vietnam Vets. I came home in February 1968 and when I got off the bus in San Jose Ca, I was spit on, called a baby killer and had to fight my way out to the street. These people were not hippies but people against the war. For a year I fought anyone who said anything bad about a vietnam vet. i have not or ever will forgive the people of this country for the way I was treated.

...

It was all the peaple who did not beleave in the war, i came home from vietnam and my friends and peaple o my block who i would watch there kids before i went, would not let there kids around me, calling me a killer and trowing things at me.

.....

I came home in Oct. 68 WE walked through a chicken wire fence as people spit and through blood on us . i`ll never get over the way we were treated not only by ourpeople but our police our veterans administration and our politicans. GOD BLESS THE MARINE CORPS!

.....

I was stateside '68-71 and wore the uniform out in public a lot in the Seattle area. I never was spit on, or spoken to impolitely. And I'm not a big intimidating guy by any means.

Of all the guys I know who came back from 'Nam vertical, nobody ever was spit on. I think it's all just overblown.

.....

I still smell a load of horsey poo on this subject. There may have been a few isolated incidents from some of the more insanely radical anti-war activists, but not at the level we are being led to believe.
My company hired a large number of returning vets at the time they also employed a large number of hippie anti-war types. We all got along fine and the guys that didn't go off to war had the utmost respect for the vets. We listened in aw to their stories and we related to them that the majority of the anti-war people just wanted to end the war and bring our troops home. We all understood and respected each other.
We did have one draft evader that fled to Canada when his number came up, but the funny thing is, none of the vets called him any derogatory names for doing so.
Also, one of the vets was really a wacked out character. I guess you could say that he was continuously plagued by flashbacks. We all felt for him and tried to help him out. By doing so we learned that he had been involved in some questionable killings of Vietnamese citizens. We never accused him of being a murderer. We understood as many others did that in war, shit happens just like it does anywhere else, only in war you can get away with a lot more. When you're walking around in a strange land with a war going on and anyone can kill you, fear has a tendency to make you lose touch with reality and its hard NOT to shoot at anything that moves.

.....

This is an urban myth trotted out by right wingers. Although it's tough to prove a negative, there's a VV vet named Lembecke who's done extensive research on this subject. Google his findings if you dare. They were published 5 or 6 years ago. http://memewatch.com/thelist/archives/2003/12/22/did_hippies_really_sp
it_on_vietnam_vets.html
]

From 2005, in response to "Why can't I find "one" hippy who spit on Vietnam Veteran?
I ask many people (Hippies) who were in the anti war movement "Did you spit on returning Veterans"? They all said "NO". They said they would never spit on returning veterans":
Quote:

I suspect that in large part the whole notion of hippies, and other war protesters, degrading our soldiers during the Vietnam Era, was nothing more than propaganda peddled by pro war parties. These parties probably acquired a few soldiers to mouth this lie, but I sincerely doubt this to be true, or I at least am suspicious of how pervasive this phenomenon was, if it existed at all.

If one examines history, all the way back to ancient Rome, one will always see how the parties that are for war, will always try to vilify those who call from more temperance, and one of the primary ways they will demonize the dissenters to war, is by propounding the myth that they are against the troops. By creating this artificial line of demarcation that pits soldiers against peace activists, you effectively marginalize the peace movement.

You still see deception going on till this day. Those who seek to cut funding for the Iraqi occupation, or question what we are doing at Guantanamo or Abu Graib, are immediately labeled as anti-American, troop haters, or demoralizers.

Again, our impoverished sense of history is our greatest downfall. Only in a country, where people are so ignorant of how historically, such techniques have been used by every dictator to subdue moral efforts to end unjustified aggression, can such lies be sustained. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071110110729AASCOjZ] And
Quote:

I know this issue has been covered here before, and some people recall that either they or an immediate acquaintance can recall spitting incidents. Even if it did happen somewhere at some point, it sounds like the issue has achieved official urban-legend status in that a lot of people claim to have witnessed it when they almost certainly didn't.
Per Wikipedia:
Quote:

A persistent criticism leveled against those who protested the United States's involvement in the Vietnam War is that protesters spat upon and otherwise derided returning soldiers, calling them "baby-killers", etc. Lembcke says he found no evidence to suggest this ever happened and suggests it may have come in part from the common chant by protesters aimed at President Lyndon Baines Johnson, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?" One of the hallmarks of the period's anti-war movement was its stated support for the troops in the field and the affiliation of many returning veterans with it. At the time he wrote The Spitting Image he had not found a single media report to support the claims of spitting. He theorizes that the reported "spitting on soldiers" scenario was a mythical projection by those who felt "spat upon" and was meant to discredit future anti-war activism. He suggests that the images of pro-war antipathy against anti-war protesters helped contribute to the myth. Lembcke argues that memories of being verbally and physically assaulted by anti-war protesters were largely conjured, arguing that not even one case could be documented.

However, some news accounts that mention spitting do exist, although there has been no evidence to support those accounts. After a review of contemporary news sources, Northwestern Law School professor James Lindgren claimed to have found news accounts that discussed spitting incidents. Lembcke provided an 18-point response to Lindgren at http://www.slate.com/id/2159470/sidebar/2159648/ expressing interest in one of Lindgren's claims. A December 27, 1971 CBS Evening News report on veteran Delmar Pickett who said he was spat at in Seattle appears to also have some validity as a claim, but not as evidence that the incident reported actually happened.[2][3]

Covering this same topic is author and columnist Bob Greene's 1989 book Homecoming in which Greene prints several letters he had solicited from veterans, asking to hear from them if they had been spat upon and focuses on firsthand accounts of their treatment.[4] Greene's book includes 63 accounts involving spitting, and 69 accounts from veterans that did not believe anyone was spat upon after returning from Vietnam. Like Lembke, Greene questions whether the spitting stories even made sense, noting "Even during the most fervent days of anti-war protest, it seemed that it was not the soldiers whom protesters were maligning. It was the leaders of government, and the top generals—at least, that is how it seemed in memory. One of the most popular chants during the anti-war marches was, “Stop the war in Vietnam, bring the boys home.” You heard that at every peace rally in America. “Bring the boys home.” That was the message. Also, when one thought realistically about the image of what was supposed to have happened, it seemed questionable. So-called “hippies,” no matter what else one may have felt about them, were not the most macho people in the world. Picture a burly member of the Green Berets, in full uniform, walking through an airport. Now think of a “hippie” crossing his path. Would the hippie have the nerve to spit on the soldier? And if the hippie did, would the soldier—fresh from facing enemy troops in the jungles of Vietnam—just stand there and take it?" While Greene admits he couldn't validate the authenticity of the accounts in the letters he received, he did believe spitting occurred, stating,"There were simply too many letters, going into too fine a detail, to deny the fact." Greene concluded, "I think you will agree, after reading the letters, that even if several should prove to be not what they appear to be, that does not detract from the overall story that is being told."[5] Lembke claims that some of the stories that Green published "have elements of such exaggeration that one has to question the veracity of the entire account." He also points out that there were several newspaper accounts of pro-war demonstrators spitting on anti-war demonstrators and suggests that these accounts may have been reinterpreted over the years.[6] In The Spitting Image Lembcke acknowledges that he cannot prove the negative—that no Vietnam veteran was spat on—saying (p. 68) it is hard to imagine there not being expressions of hostility between veterans and activists.

The Spitting Image asserts that the claims of abuse of soldiers by antiwar demonstrators became ingrained in the American consciousness only some years after the war had come to a close; Lembcke attributes the legend's growth to films relating to Vietnam, notably Rambo. He writes that these claims were used by President George H. W. Bush as a way to help sell the Gulf War to the American people. Lembcke believes that the myth is currently useful in promoting the yellow ribbon campaign; it has led some to think that for one to support troops, one must also support the war, because it ties together the ideas of anti-war sentiment and anti-troop sentiment, although a common chant has been "Support the Troops: Bring them Home!"

That's what those of us against the wars chanted then; that's what we chant today, hippie or not.

By the way, a goodly number of "hippies" were actually Vietnam Vets, protesting right along with us.


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Monday, May 28, 2012 10:01 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Sounds like a good therapist would be a good choice for him, because he says talking about it helps him. I hope he can get back to live with his sister, at least for a while. The sad thing though is that TX has very little options for mental health stuff, one of the worst states in the union. I wish him well and hope he can find ways to feel better and get to a place where he feels more comfortable in his own skin.

:(

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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