REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

John the Baptist identified?

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Thursday, June 28, 2012 17:55
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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:50 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/bulgarian-bones-could-be-john
-the-baptists-as-claimed-scientists-say/?hpt=hp_bn13


Hello,

The Catholic church has a bizarre custom where they place holy artifacts - including purported bones of saints - in altars to sanctify a church.

One such artifact- a small collection of bones purported to be from John the Baptist, has checked out in terms of age and sex. It's rather unlikely anything more can be proven about them, but it adds a bit of credence to the claimed identity of the relic.

My own question is why these relics are considered valuable to the religious institution. It is the tearing apart of a dead person and disseminating their remains amongst several 'holy sites.' And to what purpose?

Some things I just can't understand.

In any event, it's nice to see science and religion getting along for a change.

--Anthony

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't understand that either. It seems like a rather pagan thing to do, I think a lot of the things that Catholicism does root in European pagan practices.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Wednesday, June 27, 2012 9:15 PM

CATPIRATE


JB was the man of his day. He had an axe to grind with the Essenes. But taking on Herod was the end of him. Herod was trying to make Palestine in Rome's image. He was the cousin of Jesus as well as John and James. So they all learn under JB.

In the early days of the Christian church. Artifacts fake or not were inspirational to the many new converts of Christ.

The Knights Templars were suppose to have JB's head for initiation into their secret warrior monk society.

The Roman Catholic Church has a lot of dogma to it. Recently I went to one of their churches during the station's of the cross. A fairly new church. I found it interesting when I looked up into the dome. They had the Cross behind it was the Star of David and behind it was the Sun symbol(Babylon). Constantine was a pagan sun worshiper so when you see pictures of Saints you always see a halo or sun circle behind them. He was the emperor who converted the Roman Empire to Christian.

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Thursday, June 28, 2012 3:07 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


When my Polish Catholic grandfather passed away, the grandkids were invited over to pick like vultures at his remains. I didn't go, but my brother did get two small "things" that had inside of them bone fragments of either popes or saints, I can't remember which. They may or may not be true, but I'm sure he acquired them decades before eBay was invented.... but scams have been around since the world's oldest profession.

Either way, I thought it was kind of weird....


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Thursday, June 28, 2012 3:35 AM

AGENTROUKA


Speaking neutrally and merely from a historical perspective:

I think the desire to have saints' remains close is tied to the fact that people have an active relationship with the saint, who remains a conduit between people and god, and the way they are/were considered to be fully present in both depictions or relics. It's not mere illustration of a former person, it's a vessel of a current entity.

Miracles often played a big role in saint worship and while not all (I believe) performed miracles, their graves afterwards were often associated with them. So specific sites or objects related to the saint, much more so their relics, are infused with the power and spirit of that saint and to venerate them is an act of appreciation. Through their pious life, the saint essentially bought extra goodwill from god and making the effort to venerate those relics is a form way of supporting and partaking in that special goodwill.

There obviously are some pagan roots in there, but when you look beyond the superstition of it, there's an understandable form of comfort in having physical proof of something extraordinary. Not so different from an ordinary gravesite, which is a physical reminder of a person that used to be. Only less distant.



I think it's one of the least objectionable things about Catholicism.

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Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:04 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I think having these relics was probably a money-spinner for the churches in question, attracting pilgrims from far and wide. Even if that meant appealing to their flock's more pagan instincts.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, June 28, 2012 4:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Speaking neutrally and merely from a historical perspective:

I think the desire to have saints' remains close is tied to the fact that people have an active relationship with the saint, who remains a conduit between people and god, and the way they are/were considered to be fully present in both depictions or relics. It's not mere illustration of a former person, it's a vessel of a current entity.

Miracles often played a big role in saint worship and while not all (I believe) performed miracles, their graves afterwards were often associated with them. So specific sites or objects related to the saint, much more so their relics, are infused with the power and spirit of that saint and to venerate them is an act of appreciation. Through their pious life, the saint essentially bought extra goodwill from god and making the effort to venerate those relics is a form way of supporting and partaking in that special goodwill.

There obviously are some pagan roots in there, but when you look beyond the superstition of it, there's an understandable form of comfort in having physical proof of something extraordinary. Not so different from an ordinary gravesite, which is a physical reminder of a person that used to be. Only less distant.



I think it's one of the least objectionable things about Catholicism.



Nicely surmised AR.

I didn't say it was objectionable for my grandfather to have possible remains of those saints or priests, just a little strange is all. I don't even know where he would have bought them before the internet.... The local "Pope Bones" store?

It's nowhere near as weird as the few times I was staying over at my grandparents house with my younger brothers and I'd see them through their cracked bedroom door, both kneeling on the bed reciting mantras over the rosary. I couldn't even understand what they were saying, and for all I know it was mostly in latin except for "Jesus"...... It was like "blah blah hmmmmmmm mmmmm ha la de da hmmmmmm hmmmmm hah blah blah Jesus", over and over again.

I couldn't tell you how long that ritual took after all of these years, but it spooked me. I was raised as a "twice a year" Catholic, and my grandparents never judged us or even really spoke of religion around us growing up. It was obvious though that they both had a deep devotion to religion even though they never thrust it upon others, even their own family.

To my bro, I say, good find.... He didn't grab my grandfather's teeth with golden fillings, but even though nobody in the family knows who took it I do. My cousin, who is the smartest guy I know and has never worked a "real" job for a paycheck but owns a house, a frat house, and is a politician now nabbed them and got a few hundred bucks.

I'm sure most of my Gramp's stuff that the cousins took are gone now, but I know my bro will keep that until he dies. Maybe it's real? Who knows?


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Thursday, June 28, 2012 5:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA



The Foreign Legion celebrates Camerone Day by removing the wooden, prosthetic hand of Captain Danjou and parading it through the streets while the Legionarres drink toasts to the legion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Camar%C3%B3n
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Danjou

Ironic note - I was born on Camerone Day.

-F

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