Lance Armstrong by 1kiki

America loves a winner!

Beat cancer that was literally all over his body, fought back, trained and, as noted, passed every gorram drug test.

Haters gonna hate.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 7:47 AM

WHOZIT

They were never going to stop tormenting him, he should call for a "Tour de France" Boycott.

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 7:52 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Jongs

We are on the same page with that: So many claims, no actual proof. Tho I'd err on the side of 'innocent until proven guilty'. If the USADA had some actual concrete proof instead of just hearsay, they'd have brought it forward. And without a SINGLE testing failure, if Armstrong was doping he's has got to be the most successful cheat to date.

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 8:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

A USADA rep came forwards and said that at the time that Lance won some of his Tour de France titles they didn't have a test for EPO, but that they tested his blood several years afterwards (once the test was developed) and found EPO in more than one sample.

I think what we all have is a paucity of data with which to decide. I would need to see the numbers of samples, the tests that were run, the test results (as well as metrics of the test itself- eg the false positive and false negative rates) and so forth, and EVEN THEN it may still be equivocal.

WE simply cannot decide on the basis of the information that we have, but the process smacks of a Star Chambers trial.

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 8:21 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Beat cancer that was literally all over his body, fought back, trained and, as noted, passed every gorram drug test.

Haters gonna hate.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

I'm just preserving this as a pristine example of little Rappy's sheer knee-jerk idiocy. What he fails to realize is that those 'haters' ARE THE US. Specifically the USADA. The French are only too happy to let Armstrong keep his Tour de France titles until something evidential comes up.

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 8:43 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Signy

It seems there was a sophisticated system for beating the anti-doping tests. I have to say though that if you are doping such fractional amounts with EPO (with very limited boosts in hematocrit), steroids, and the like, it's not going to change a poor athlete into a great one, or even a good one. Tho it would be interesting to find out if there are any studies done on the bona fide physiological benefits of doping very small amounts of mixed drugs.

Given that there was this system in place to dope and beat the tests, it still come down to me to be a matter of proof. If you are a sport and want to forbid something, and penalize athletes in the sport for violations, you had better make sure you have a solid system in place to do that. Maybe they set up a scarecrow of testing to scare the naive and unconnected out of doping, and maybe it really did cut down on rampant doping and brought it to a more subtle level. But if your system isn't set up to 100% enforce your rules, that's on you. You shouldn't be punishing people based on your assumptions that you have to make b/c of your own failures.

So, what's the cleanest sport around - tennis? How do they keep it that way?

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Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
A USADA rep came forwards and said that at the time that Lance won some of his Tour de France titles they didn't have a test for EPO, but that they tested his blood several years afterwards (once the test was developed) and found EPO in more than one sample.

I think what we all have is a paucity of data with which to decide. I would need to see the numbers of samples, the tests that were run, the test results (as well as metrics of the test itself- eg the false positive and false negative rates) and so forth, and EVEN THEN it may still be equivocal.

WE simply cannot decide on the basis of the information that we have, but the process smacks of a Star Chambers trial.

Ayep, that's about how I see it.

Seriously, I fail to see exactly why this has ever been such a damn issue, even in the olympics considering just how much rule bending, biased judging, and downright cheating goes on behind the scenes - no amount of drugs is going to make a truly significant difference, and the price for it both karmic and actual, is already part and parcel of the use of them since it will come back to haunt them both psychologically and physically.
I mean the tragedy of Lyle Alzado should stand of itself as a warning, shouldn't it ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyle_Alzado#Steroid_use_and_death

Ergo I think the whole notion is kind of ridiculous, the penalty for it is built right in, and the difference any such supposed enhancement might make is, I think, primarily psychological in nature rather than measurably effective.

-Frem

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Monday, September 3, 2012 3:00 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't have enough info to decide.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, September 3, 2012 3:22 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Beat cancer that was literally all over his body, fought back, trained and, as noted, passed every gorram drug test.

Haters gonna hate.

I'm just preserving this as a pristine example of little Rappy's sheer knee-jerk idiocy. What he fails to realize is that those 'haters' ARE THE US. Specifically the USADA. The French are only too happy to let Armstrong keep his Tour de France titles until something evidential comes up.

What 'knee jerk 'idiocy ? You think that just because it's the USADA that I give a flying frak ? He's not been caught using any thing, has he? Where's the PROOF ? Failed drug test ? No ? Until you got something, you got nothin'.

I'll say it again. Haters gonna hate.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 3, 2012 3:47 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And yet once again, little Rappy shows a complete lack of reading comprehension. Apparently he thinks I'm in favor of stripping the titles despite all my typed words to the contrary. It makes me wonder why he even bothers to post on any topic given his complete inability to read.

And he thinks that people (apparently me included) want to strip the titles because we are 'haters' for no apparent reason except we 'hate'.

I wonder how much of that is sheer projection.

I guess we'll see when we read his next post.

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Monday, September 3, 2012 4:06 PM

America loves a winner!

Show me where I said 1 gorram thing about anyone stripping titles.

Go ahead. I'll hang on.

You recall, it was YOU who asked

" So what do you all think of the US stripping him of his titles? "

I then gave you my view on the matter - Haters gonna hate.

( This is the ironic part of the thread, where 1kiki comments about other's lack of reading comprehension, while dreaming up things others didn't say, at all... crassic! )

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 3, 2012 4:27 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Show me where I said 1 gorram thing about anyone stripping titles.
You recall, it was YOU who asked
"So what do you all think of the US stripping him of his titles? "
I then gave you my view on the matter - Haters gonna hate."

Wow. Apparently little rappy posted 'haters gpnna hate' not about Armstrong being stripped of titles, or understanding that it was the US stripping him of titles, but just about 'haters' who, apparently, he divines, 'hate' Armstrong tho they haven't actually 'done' anything to him - at least according to little rappy.

B/c it certainly isn't about stripping his titles. At least according to little rappy.

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Monday, September 3, 2012 4:39 PM

America loves a winner!

Makes ME wonder why you even post here, when you don't bother to read anyone's posts.

I'll type slowly, so you can follow along...

YOU asked about what anyone thought about something, I replied, and then you go off on " apparently you think I said blah blah blah .. " when all I FRAKING did was give a direct answer to your initial question. LONG before you even bothered to comment further on what you thought on the matter.

And speaking of reading comprehension fails, when I post ...

Until you got something, you got nothin'. ,

I'm TALKING about those who accuse ARMSTRONG of cheating !!! How did your brain even LEARN human speech ???

OMG, you think I was talking about the " haters " being you ??

ROFLMAO!!!!!

He's SUSPECTED of cheating, but they have no actual real proof. They acted anyways... sorry, but that goes against the rule of law, in my book

Thus - HATERS.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 3, 2012 4:45 PM

America loves a winner!

To further clarify...

Quote:
Armstrong can still hold out hope that he’ll ultimately be able to retain his Tour de France titles, as race organizers and the international cycling body wrestle with USADA over who has the authority to strip the cyclist of his wins.

“They don’t unilaterally have the authority because they didn’t award them,” Armstrong’s attorney, Robert Luskin, said of USADA.

So, ULTIMATELY, it may not even be in the hands of the USADA to strip him of any Tour de France titles, ( as he's failed no drug tests to date, as I understand it ) so what in the HELL are you even fussing about ?

The result is exactly as I said it! Haters gonna hate !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 3, 2012 4:57 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... when all I FRAKING did was give a direct answer to your initial question ..."

which was "So what do you all think of the US stripping him of his titles?"

except "Show me where I said 1 gorram thing about anyone stripping titles."

From this, I conclude that little rappy is so polarized that one train of thought on a topic can't meet up with another train of thought on the same topic. Leading him to answer a question, CLAIM he answered the question, but also deny he addressed the topic.

This is pretty interesting.

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Monday, September 3, 2012 5:00 PM

America loves a winner!

Dude, just apologize now, and I'll THINK about accepting. Maybe.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 3, 2012 5:14 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Thanks for the laugh.

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Monday, September 3, 2012 5:19 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks for the laugh.

Wow. You're dumber ( or more stubborn ) than I thought.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, September 3, 2012 5:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

olibsdfvgo osdvbno nlsnbv

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Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:30 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
olibsdfvgo osdvbno nlsnbv

Rue says what?

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Tuesday, September 4, 2012 3:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

By all accounts, Armstrong is a jackass in real life. I've met the man twice, and he did nothing to disabuse me of that impression.

That said, he's one hell of an athlete, and nobody has offered any PROOF, or anything other than hearsay, that he was doping or using any banned substances.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
He's SUSPECTED of cheating, but they have no actual real proof. They acted anyways... sorry, but that goes against the rule of law, in my book

Are you talking about Saddam Hussein and the USA?

Select to view spoiler:

OH, BTW- rappy you're an idiot. You answered a question about stripping titles and then claimed you didn't address the topic???? Well, we always knew your answers were irrelevant. Nice to see you admit it!

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:12 AM

America loves a winner!

No, coward, I never DID SAY anything about stripping titles, it was kiki who ASKED THE GORRAM QUESTION.

NOR did I ever imply that Kiki was perfectly fine w/ the USADA stripping Armstrong of any titles. That's two fabrications made out of thin air.

You mental midgets really need to just accept defeat and give it a rest.

kiki asked, I replied - Beat cancer that was literally all over his body, fought back, trained and, as noted, passed every gorram drug test.

Haters gonna hate.

And that prompted this - I'm just preserving this as a pristine example of little Rappy's sheer knee-jerk idiocy. What he fails to realize is that those 'haters' ARE THE US. Specifically the USADA

WHERE THE HELL IS THE ' knee jerk idiocy' ??

Still no answer on that one. And the funny part is, kiki AGREES WITH ME !

Good fucking god, you two are fucking idiots.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:47 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, so you ARE talking about Saddam Hussein and the USA? 'Cause, yanno, you didn't deny it.

Also

Quote:
Haters gonna hate

had nothing at all to do with stripping Armstrong of his titles? Nothing at all? Then who ARE these "haters" and what did they have to do with the question? Nothing?

Typical.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:53 PM

America loves a winner!

Saddam and USA aren't relevant to this thread.

And yes, very typical.

Still no answer as to where I supposedly said kiki was fine w/ sanctions against Lance. Probably because I never once did say, suggest, hint, allude, infer, any such a notion in this thread, at all.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:56 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, it is characteristic of you that you apply one set of rules to one group of people, and a different set to another group pf people. No wonder you're so confused.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:01 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, it is characteristic of you that you apply one set of rules to one group of people, and a different set to another group pf people. No wonder you're so confused.

You're the one who is confused, trying to paint all issues with one broad brush.

Details from one story don't always apply to other situations.

I know how you Lefties just LOVE to view all things as being exactly equal, but truth be told, each is unique and separate from t'other.

You might want to see to that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:08 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Where's the PROOF ? Failed drug test ? No ? Until **YOU** got something, **YOU** got nothin'."

Since you were answering me, the 'you' you posted to was 'me' as if I was the person who needed to supply proof for why his titles SHOULD HAVE been stripped.

And yet, I think that lack of proof, the passed drug tests - those were my entire point as to why he should NOT have been stripped of his titles. So you disagreed with 'me' that I had no 'proof' for stripping his titles, when in fact, I posted what you posted. Hence, I concluded you don't know how to read, because you missed the point of a number of words.

Honestly, trying to describe your scrambled-eggs-for-brains thinking is really difficult.

It's just like trying to explain TO YOU how it is you answered my question about stripping his titles, CLAIMED to answer my question about stripping his titles, and then denied you posted anything about stripping his titles.

You have a serious case of double-think. Dude, you need to have that looked at.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:15 PM

America loves a winner!

Until you got something, you ain't got nothing.

I was speaking to HATERS, genius.

A general statement, and nothing more.

Which only shows more how YOU misread my comments, and then went on to have a hissy fit over all this.

Truly, TYPICAL.

This horse is beaten into the dust. Unless and until you offer up something of substance, I'm done.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:24 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"No, coward, I never DID SAY anything about stripping titles, it was kiki who ASKED THE GORRAM QUESTION."

Which you answered, said you answered, then claimed you didn't address the topic - see above. Just yanno, to be abundantly clear about how you've zigged and zagged like a rabbit over this entire thread.

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Wednesday, September 5, 2012 5:28 PM