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But it's nit-picking to say they support that Uganda law because they donate to a group who support it,

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
It is the absolute duty of every good citizen to resist such oppression wherever it occurs. Your argument is stunningly illogical. That because people have voted 'aye' for oppression, or because oppression is 'legal', that I should shut up about it or take it lying down.

No, I and others should stand against such oppression and count ourselves proud and right to have done so. That's part of our system, too. Some of our proudest moments in history have occurred because people did not ' honor that decision' and instead raised hell about it.

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Sweet Geezer,

My opposition to such oppression is entirely political at the moment. It will continue to be until my ability to express political expression is outlawed.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Hello Sweet Geezer,

My opposition to such oppression is entirely political at the moment. It will continue to be until my ability to express political expression is outlawed.

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What if your political expression is not outlawed, but just marginalized by the people in power ignoring it?

What if the political process moves too slow, or is moving in a direction you don't like? States increasing restrictions on abortion, or outlawing same-sex marriage or discrimination protections for gays or other minorities?

Is there a bright line that'll kick you into civil disobedience, or will you just know it when you see it?

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So have you burned down a Chick-fil-a yet? Stopped paying your taxes in protest of their use to fund (for example) the Patriot Act, the Defense of Marriage Act, Gitmo, or drone strikes on American citizens? Tried to sabotage what you see as the tools of oppression, like the guy in Vermont who drove a tractor over (empty) police vehicles?

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Is there a bright line that'll kick you into civil disobedience, or will you just know it when you see it?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Wrong, Kwickie. But keep trying.

Those might be the claims of others ( though I seriously doubt very many ), they're certainly not MY claims.

And never have been.

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Posted by Rappy:


After 10,000 years of man + woman marriage, we have to go redefining the institution..why ?

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Originally posted by Geezer:
What if your political expression is not outlawed, but just marginalized by the people in power ignoring it?

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

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Is there a bright line that'll kick you into civil disobedience, or will you just know it when you see it?

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Hello,

I share Mike's question. If you are equating 'civil disobedience' with burning down buildings and chopping up police cars, I think the government would have to do a lot worse than 'move too slow.'

As long as my opposing speech isn't outlawed, things haven't gone past tolerance for me. Violence is not a tool of convenience for me.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Meanwhile, here's to the claims from Rappy and others that there's only one definition of marriage...

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

So you DON'T believe that there's a "tradition" of 1 man/1 woman marriage dating back thousands of years?

Perhaps you've grown...

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You apparently will take the step to civil disobedience (or some other level beyond political speech) only when your political speech is outlawed.

So apparently your statement, "It is the absolute duty of every good citizen to resist such oppression wherever it occurs." has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any forseeable situation.

As you may have guessed by now, this relates back to the thread concerning the Russian Orthodox Church and your condemnation of them for not standing up as forcefully as you'd like to the Russian government.

It appears that you also are willing to limit your resistance to oppression if it's at a tolerable level.

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has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any foreseeable situation.

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As you may have guessed by now, this relates back to the thread concerning the Russian Orthodox Church and your condemnation of them for not standing up as forcefully as you'd like to the Russian government.

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

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You apparently will take the step to civil disobedience (or some other level beyond political speech) only when your political speech is outlawed.

So apparently your statement, "It is the absolute duty of every good citizen to resist such oppression wherever it occurs." has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any forseeable situation.

As you may have guessed by now, this relates back to the thread concerning the Russian Orthodox Church and your condemnation of them for not standing up as forcefully as you'd like to the Russian government.

It appears that you also are willing to limit your resistance to oppression if it's at a tolerable level.

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Hello Geezer,

Your flexibility is amazing. You are adept at completely contorting issues to make them fit your arguments.

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has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any foreseeable situation.

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Here you argue that since I am not prepared to skip to violence (you mentioned burning buildings or chopping up cars. You mentioned these things, not Mike) then I am pussing out and playing it safe.

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and you have no real concern that limits on such speech will ever come along to make you have to go any further.

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In many places, the political speech we exercise so freely here on RWED could very likely get you killed.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

So you DON'T believe that there's a "tradition" of 1 man/1 woman marriage dating back thousands of years?

Perhaps you've grown...

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Again, you're confused.

It's not a 'belief', it's a fact. And that's different than the Biblical tripe you posted above, assigning me as holding onto and promoting the strict religious interpretation of what marriage is or should be. I have NEVER taken such a position.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

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You apparently will take the step to civil disobedience (or some other level beyond political speech) only when your political speech is outlawed.

So apparently your statement, "It is the absolute duty of every good citizen to resist such oppression wherever it occurs." has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any forseeable situation.

As you may have guessed by now, this relates back to the thread concerning the Russian Orthodox Church and your condemnation of them for not standing up as forcefully as you'd like to the Russian government.

It appears that you also are willing to limit your resistance to oppression if it's at a tolerable level.

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Hello Geezer,

Your flexibility is amazing. You are adept at completely contorting issues to make them fit your arguments.

Quote:

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has qualifications on the level of resistance. Qualifications that will tend to keep you out of trouble in almost any foreseeable situation.

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Here you argue that since I am not prepared to skip to violence (you mentioned burning buildings or chopping up cars. You mentioned these things, not Mike) then I am pussing out and playing it safe.

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So you're playing Mike's game now and taking things out of context?

Look at the paragraph you quoted above.

See the first sentence? The one that says, "You apparently will take the step to civil disobedience (or some other level beyond political speech) only when your political speech is outlawed."?

Do you not consider that "civil disobedience (or some other level beyond political speech)" might leave you some wiggle room between political speech and violence? Sit-ins? Occupations? Non-payment of taxes? Blocking roads or sidewalks and demanding arrest?

Sorry, Anthony, but it's easy to say "It is the absolute duty of every good citizen to resist such oppression wherever it occurs.", when you know that political speech won't get you in trouble, and you have no real concern that limits on such speech will ever come along to make you have to go any further. In many places, the political speech we exercise so freely here on RWED could very likely get you killed.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
How do you KNOW that political speech won't get you in trouble? How do you KNOW that being at a protest or a sit-in won't end with you being shot in the head by the police? After seeing the way police have behaved in this country in the last few years, if not longer, can you really "have no real concern that limits on such speech will ever come along"?

If I go to a protest or a sit-in, I go with the full knowledge that I may be killed, arrested, jailed, or beaten. I never assume that the Constitution will protect me; I only know that it SHOULD.

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Originally posted by Niki2:
Whatever that was, it didn't show up. Just FYI.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've been assured that boycotts never work, but Chick-Fil-A just announced that they're not funding any anti-gay groups any more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-organiza
tions-funding-ceased_n_1896580.html

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Basically, this is much ado about nothing, and just another attention grabbing attempt by the LBGT-LMNOP groups.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I've been assured that boycotts never work, but Chick-Fil-A just announced that they're not funding any anti-gay groups any more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/chick-fil-a-anti-gay-organiza
tions-funding-ceased_n_1896580.html

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They weren't funding any anti-gay groups in the first place.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
...Focus on the Family...

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