REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Board Dispute - Please Help

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 16:02
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Monday, October 15, 2012 1:12 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
because everyone here is clinically insane

Yeah, Mark, I stopped reading at that point because I had the same immediate impression. As someone with a CLINICAL mental illness, I resented the hell out of that statement...then I backed off and thought "well, consider the source" and relaxed. Yes, this place is tough--nobody should be here who isn't prepared to deal with that. But statements like that, and like SO many other over-arching, over-reaching things DT says are really vicious...and he claims this place is???

I see a lot of humor here; the vitriol I see is almost exclusively about politics. I also see people enjoy one another, agree on things, disagree, pick on one another fer shore (but mostly just a few of us perpetually), mock one another, put up interesting stuff I'd otherwise know nothing about, and act like assholes from time to time. But to write what he did, and I'm guessing more of the same, is a reflection of DT, absolutely nobody else.

Byte, I don't know why you are so bent on everyone accepting your "badness". We went through this not long ago, remember? And you ran away for a while, after something about a trick or a test or I forget what, but something to the effect that you were going to prove something or show something. It's like this is that, happening all over again. I don't know why it's important for you to convince us all you're bad, but you can't MAKE it happen, sorry. Fact: YOU HAVE NEVER HURT ME! Nobody here has the power to do so, and nothing you've done would have hurt me even in real life...I'd just absent myself if I was in any way uncomfortable with being around you. I can't even remember the last time anyone hurt my feelings. You don't have the power to hurt that you seem to think you do. You don't even piss me off much, mostly frustrate me sometimes 'cuz I can't figure out where you're coming from.

So here it is a third time and tell you: READ THIS, it is the absolute truth, not the truth you keep insisting on and want us to believe:
Quote:
And I'm telling you that you've got big ole blinders on, that everything you observe is going through the filter of your self-hatred so that it all comes out: "Bytemite is BAD and does bad things and everyone hates her!"

Your filter lies to you. You never hurt me. You have at times interpreted things I said as attacks on you, and maybe you lashed out in return, but this DIDN'T HURT ME. I am resorting to all caps because you don't seem to be getting this. My reaction when you do this kind of thing is not hurt, it's more of a mild annoyance that you're making up a fight where there isn't one, and concern that you're spiraling into a bad place.

But it never hurts me. I've seen you go through this enough that I know you'll come out of it. You just come out of it with even more self-hatred. That's what it means that the only person you need to defend yourself against is yourself. When you take things personally that don't need to be taken that way, you don't hurt other people. You hurt yourself.

As long as you keep looking at yourself as some kind of monstrous villain who hurts people - which is ridiculous - you will continue this pattern of seeing everything as an attack. You will continue to lash out, then blame yourself.

The only way out to give yourself a fucking break. You are NOT a monster, and for Heaven's sake no one here hates you. Let go of your self-hatred long enough to consider that. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel pretty strongly that you've hurt no one to near the degree you think you have. No one but yourself. And no one but YOU can forgive you for that.
THAT is the truth, as I see it.

One of the things that confuses me is why you seem to have this intense need for us to believe you're some kind of badass and protect ourselves from you. I'd like to ask: What exactly do you think you can do to harm any of us??? Many of us have already said you haven't hurt us, that you CANNOT hurt us, so what's the big deal?
Quote:
And yet you're all still like, oh we trust you, we care about you. All of this trust and concern is dangerous for you. What exactly do I have to do to convince you?

I don't think anyone said they trusted you--I don't trust you as far as I can throw you, but I don't trust ANYONE on the internet, and few IRL, that far either. We care about you because as Mike said, you're on the same rickety old tug we are, so we give a shit. But why would trusting you and/or caring about you be dangerous, I'd really like to know.

Why do you WANT to convince us? You can't hurt us, honest to gawd...if anyone's hurt, they can damned well speak up and say so, but I don't think you have the power TO hurt anyone here. Piss 'em off, sure; and we've pretty much all pissed each other off at one time or another, so what? We've all grown pretty hard shells...in fact it's quite possible you're one of the very few who HAVEN'T grown a thick skin, so as has been said, the only person you CAN hurt is yourself.

I find it puzzling that you're so insistent about this. I don't think anyone's "attacked" you in this thread, as some seem to have seen it, and I KNOW you're not dangerous to anyone here. But this has gone on so long and your insistence is so intense, I think I'll back out of this thread and hope it settles down again, because it's a waste of time for you to try and convince us we should fear you; it's apparently a waste of time for us to convince you that you're harmless; I don't enjoy reading people blaming one another for "attacking you" (which I really don't see having happened); and if I have to read any more of DT's crap, I swear to gawd, I will SPIT!

Give it a rest, Byte...you are no better and no worse than anyone else here, just different. We all are. In essence, to quote yet again: The only way out to give yourself a fucking break. You are NOT a monster, and for Heaven's sake no one here hates you. Period.


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Monday, October 15, 2012 1:48 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Give it a rest, Byte...you are no better and no worse than anyone else here,

This I find interesting. I lived for many many years in the headspace where Byte is, and I eventually came to realize how selfish and self-aggrandizing it is. Sorry Byte - I speak of me, but I think it does apply. Think about it: everyone lashes out now and then. Me, you, everybody. I'm quite willing to forgive other people who do that, but myself? No way. I used to get so down on myself every time I was less than cordial. Why? Because I wanted to be better than that. Because I DEMANDED that I be better than what I could accept in other people. Because I thought I was better than them.

It's BS. Pure BS. I have come to realize that allowing myself to be flawed means allowing that I am not superior to others. I couldn't accept my own flaws so I completely overreacted to them. It was a self-centered insecurity.

Now older and wiser, I know that I have to let people see when I mess up and just trust that they can get over it. The crazy thing - I've found that when I let people see my mistakes, and I don't deny or hide them, they actually kind of like me better for it. People seem to actually love it when a capable person is open about messing up. It's weird.

As for DT - this is a hoot. Reminds me of one time I went into a coffee shop, and while waiting in line I looked around at all the fucking laptops. Every table had a cool laptop or two or three, and I envied them all because I was shopping for one and couldn't afford the best kind. It's like they were all mocking me with their sexy high tech laptopiness.

Then this weird woman beside me in line starting talking about how every one was eating and it was so disgusting, how they just ate in public like that. I replied, "Umm... it's a restaurant." So she explained that she was a food addict...

You see what you're obsessed with. Byte hates herself, so everywhere she looks she sees hate. DT is nuts (with good reason, apparently, and just to be clear I classify myself as a bit nuts too) so everywhere he looks he sees insanity.

We don't even know how strong our filters are. I admit, I have two rather weighty filters that I'm aware of. OK, maybe three. I try to compensate for them. Maybe someday I'll be able to shed them.

Back to Byte - honey, you haven't hurt me. If you were really a spiteful person, you take the time to figure out how to properly twist the knife, but you never do. Your "lashing out" is that of a cornered kitten, an innocent creature in a state of terror trying like hell to defend itself. But you don't have full grown claws, and you'd much prefer to go hide somewhere safe and warm rather than draw blood.

You lack any kind of joy in causing pain. You aren't even a little bit cruel.

In case it's not clear, I mean that as a compliment.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 2:16 PM

BYTEMITE


I have known, since I was five, that I am flawed, and that those flaws are unforgiveable. Don't be so sure that I'm not cruel, I have a nasty history of it.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 2:34 PM

OONJERAH



Byte IS cruel. She says so, and I take her word for it.

"those flaws are unforgiveable" Her flaws are unforgiveable.
Does that mean Byte is unforgiveable?

Forgiveness is one of the best things that we can give to ourselves
and others. All the great philosophers say so, & many ordinary
people who experience it agree. I also believe in forgiveness.
I just don't know how to DO it intentionally.

Byte, I suspect you are living with a hanging judge in your head.
That guy's an a**hole. I invalidate him.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 2:37 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, it's a pure and simple fact that NOBODY can know at the age of five that they are flawed, much less that any flaws they have could possibly be unforgiveable. Period.

At five a child can only know what it takes in from around it, from things its parents say, overheard comments, etc., etc. And those are subjective statements from OTHER PEOPLE, they can (and often do, and I took some in and they all but destroyed me) have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the child, only with the person speaking.

So I reject your premise completely. If you internalized something at or by age five or whatever, it wasn't you judging you; if you choose to hold onto whatever you internalized, that's your business, but it's a choice.

Of COURSE you're flawed, everyone is. But unforgiveably so? Bah.

Of COURSE you can be cruel. Is there a single person on this board who can't? Anyone can be cruel...anyone can be as cruel as they want to if they want to, and often even if they DON'T consciously want to. So what? Means you're (gasp!) human, doll, nothing more.

Sorry, I'm not buying it, especially now you say you've "known" since age 5. That's bullshit, pure and simple. Whatever "need" you have to convince us you're some kind of horrid creature won't work with me, and I doubt with many (if any) others.

I was a royal bitch well into my thirties. I even called myself The Nikovich Bitch, kinda like what Mal just described. I find it very difficult to believe you could ever have been or are one WHIT nastier than I was back then.

HEY OONJ!!! I changed my color 'cuz you said in another thread that its darkness was hard to read. I spent a good fifteen MINUTES trying out colors to find one lighter that was still sort-of purple (my color on every website). Now I come here and find you writing in a color just one TINY shade off mine?!?! I won't have it!

See one of the reasons I use color is that when I come back to a thread, I go directly to the bottom, then scroll up until I see my last post (easily identifiable by the color, get it?). Then I read from there on. So if you're gonna use THAT color, I'll have to go back to my old one, because I couldn't find anything else that was close enough to my "signature color".

SO CHANGE IT, BITCH! Right NOW, y'hear? Or suffer through trying to read my vital words, the pearls that drop from my...er, keyboard...in dark purple!









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Monday, October 15, 2012 2:56 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I have known, since I was five, that I am flawed, and that those flaws are unforgiveable. Don't be so sure that I'm not cruel, I have a nasty history of it.


Would the adult you ever tell a five year old that she was irredeemable?



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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:03 PM

BYTEMITE


So I was faking the dark voice in my head when I was five, that delightful lullaby that told me that I should kill myself because I was worthless as I went to sleep. That when I was crying behind the bleachers and kids threw jello at me, it said that I was pathetic and deserved it. Good to know Niki. Thank you for setting me straight.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I have known, since I was five, that I am flawed, and that those flaws are unforgiveable."

That's the age most children develop their idea of 'self', of who they are. B4 then they're pretty much an ad hoc assemblage of responses. I suspect you had a difficult set of traits. Your parents didn't know how to deal w/ you so they set u off to the side to run on your own, and handed you over to others to fix you. B/c there was no effective external limit on your behavior you became more extreme b/c it worked for you. You didn't get loved, you got feared. But you got attention, and you got it in a way that was within your capability at the time.

In any case, it's something that can be undone, but you have to get a bead on the traits that made you what you are. And I don't mean 'mean-ness' but sensitivity to your environment (I don't think you were an insensitive potato lump, do you?) mental quickness, internal noise leading to a lack of internal peace that is a reward for most people ... Imagine what life would be like if certain actions for you lead to internal peace. You'd be a different person today.

People need to find the problem before they can address it. Imagine Niki if she STILL didn't know she was bipolar. Imagine OONJ if she STILL didn't know the problem was the effed-up interactions she got when she was young, and that she propagated b/c it was what she knew.

I know your problems aren't my problems or Niki's problems, or OONJ's problems, or HKC's problems. You have your own set. But they aren't all evil, all powerful. They're real, which makes them concrete --- and limited and fixable.


"... the dark voice in my head when I was five, that delightful lullaby that told me that I should kill myself because I was worthless ..."

It sounds like some other children I've run across who had seizures localized to specific areas of the brain.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:16 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
So I was faking the dark voice in my head when I was five, that delightful lullaby that told me that I should kill myself because I was worthless as I went to sleep. That when I was crying behind the bleachers and kids threw jello at me, it said that I was pathetic and deserved it. Good to know Niki. Thank you for setting me straight.


No, you weren't faking it. I was 10 when I told my dad that I wanted to die. I hated myself and my life for a reason, and it wasn't because I was unforgivable, or because I was monster.

Please: would you look a five year old child in the eye and tell her that she could not be redeemed?

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:17 PM

BYTEMITE


Mal4Prez: Yes. Because clearly some five year olds are irredeemable. Especially ones that continue to do horrible shit well into their teen years that lands them in psychiatric treatment. Ones with horrified parents, who ask why they did something unspeakable, and receive only a laugh.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I was 5 when I realized there was something so wrong with me even my parents couldn't love me. I thought I was evil.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:31 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Mal4Prez: Yes. Because clearly some five year olds are irredeemable. Especially ones that continue to do horrible shit well into their teen years that lands them in psychiatric treatment. Ones with horrified parents, who ask why they did something unspeakable, and receive only a laugh.


I'm not talking about you, because clearly--CLEARLY--you are biased about your own history. I'm talking about this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=five+year+old+girl&hl=en&clien
t=firefox-a&hs=XkH&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=yrV8UNroEcuD0QHt7YAY&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAQ&biw=1233&bih=768

Are you going to tell me that these girls, because they might not act "normal" when they are too young to have any idea of what "normal" ought to be, and because their peers have no idea what a girl with an abnormal history might have been through, are you really going to tell these girls of all different shapes and sizes that they have no hope in life?

Sorry, Byte. I don't buy it. I've seen your posts here for years. Years and years. You are not cruel. You have survival mechanisms that you developed for good reason. That makes you a survivor, not a monster.

Someday you're going to forgive your five year old self. Until then, stick with my personal remedy: Guinness and good movies. If you're really into crazy people, I recommend NeoNed, but that might just be my crush on Jeremy Renner talking.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:37 PM

BYTEMITE


M4P: IT IS NOT FORGIVABLE. I hurt things back then too, and I continued to hurt things. They were helpless and I HURT THEM. I LAUGHED about it.

So until you can understand that, you do not know me. But you can HEED me.

And any other child, who did those things, I would tell them to their face that they are MONSTERS. Because I would KNOW. And they would know too.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"They were helpless and I HURT THEM. I LAUGHED about it."

Did it make you happy? People laugh for all sorts of reasons. Out of stress. Out of relief. Out of humor. Out of sociality. The fact that you laughed doesn’t mean much to me.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 3:52 PM

BYTEMITE


Malicious joy.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, I don't mean to be too persistent about this and hog the thread, so if you wish to take this off line just PM - but what does that feel like? I know a lot of little boys who did things to little critters, so I'm not sure what makes them and you different.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:05 PM

OONJERAH


"They were helpless and I HURT THEM. I LAUGHED about it."

Did it into High School?

Did you also do it this month, this year?

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:11 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Did it into High School?

Did you also do it this month, this year?


That was hard enough to admit. And I suppose I deserve that disgust. The answer is no. But I still hurt people. I don't know what else you want from me.

It's a history of violence, abuse, and manipulative behaviour. It's ongoing. And that is why I can't stand myself. And that dislike is justified, and what I did and what I am, I brought it on to myself. So don't tell me I can make it all better, because I can't, and because none of you would believe that.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:40 PM

OONJERAH



Paraphrasing, can't reall exact words of 28 years ago.

A very wise, gay lady in my 12-Step group once said,
"When I got here, all I had was bad memories.

"Then I began to work on myself and make changes. I made
my life better, made how I feel better. So every day now,
I'm making good memories."

Byte, I'm believing you here! And I've been out of line.

Edited to remove my offensive, pushy queries.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA


No one born Darkhearted wins out against the beast within every day, kiddo.
That doesn't make the beast YOU... only, a part of you.

Attempting to excise or deny it only enables it by giving it more exercise.
Acknowledge it, welcome it and USE it, gorge it on things that NEED a little cruelty applied, make it fat and lazy, and it will have no control over you - make it your slave, instead of fleeing from it and allowing fear of it to dominate your actions, because in that fashion it controls YOU.

Talk to someone with tourettes about the beast within, and how its terrorism will rule your life if you let it, you will see what I mean.

As for redemption - from what ?
You are who you are, trying to "forgive" yourself or "atone" is both puritannical inhumane bullshit and a swift route to madness.

-Frem

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Monday, October 15, 2012 4:50 PM

BYTEMITE


No. I can't even atone. That's why I have only one path.

It'll get its fill at the end, and destroy me. And that will be the best thing I've ever done. But I have to direct it at the right thing, or all of these struggles will have been for nothing.

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Monday, October 15, 2012 5:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Byte a stor, I'm not sure what I should and shouldn't be saying here in a public forum, since your my good friend and I don't want to embarass you or spread your business. I want to be honest with you and tell you what I think and know to be true, like I do in my letters, but I suspect that you'd not appreciate that in front of everyone, so just know that I'm thinking the things I always tell you when we have this discussion. I haven't changed my opinion of you or of your situation. I've made it clear what I think is going on with you, and what was going on with you in your girlhood, and the changes in your situation that have taken place since then. I think I'll write it all down for you again since I believe in consistancy. But I don't want to go on about it in front of everyone because I don't know how much you want them to hear. So I'll leave it there for now.

Self help projects can only go so far in life.

I guess I was a pretty boring 5 year old really. I was mostly neurotypical at that point, though I was a little late developing empathy and was extremely passionate about my interests, as I still am, but the empathy came at 7 or 8 and it all worked out fine, no one was hurt etc. I didn't get sick until I was 13.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 5:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, I never said you were faking, nor would I, nor do I believe that. You're misunderstanding me.
Quote:
Yes. Because clearly some five year olds are irredeemable. Especially ones that continue to do horrible shit well into their teen years that lands them in psychiatric treatment. Ones with horrified parents, who ask why they did something unspeakable, and receive only a laugh.
I've known people who were like that, and I was in love with one for four years; she lived with us. Heck, I helped RAISE one, Jeff fitted your description pretty damned well when we had custody of him, between about 10 and 14. Lots and lots of therapy, including family therapy (because the family is always part of the problem, no matter what). He's fine now, he's a really neat, caring, sensitive person. You're a sensitive person, whether you realize it or not, it's just that the sensitivity currently is toward thinking people should hate you or something, and seeing things which are not there (like thinking I was saying you were faking).

And he also had "a history of violence, abuse, and manipulative behaviour", but I never thought of him as a monster or irredeemable. It took him into his early forties to

The number of five-year-olds who are "irredeemable" is miniscule, in my opinion. There is virtually always hope.
Quote:
I suppose I deserve that disgust.

I saw absolutely no disgust in what Oonj wrote; I saw a query, nothing more.

As Frem said, there is no need for atonement or forgiveness. And nobody has only one path. You're free not to believe that, but I'd still like to know: HOW DO YOU THINK YOU CAN HURT ANY OF US?!? I'm not snarking, I'd really like to know, because I don't see how you can.


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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Did it into High School?

Did you also do it this month, this year?


That was hard enough to admit. And I suppose I deserve that disgust. The answer is no. But I still hurt people. I don't know what else you want from me.

It's a history of violence, abuse, and manipulative behaviour. It's ongoing. And that is why I can't stand myself. And that dislike is justified, and what I did and what I am, I brought it on to myself. So don't tell me I can make it all better, because I can't, and because none of you would believe that.



I believe you can't change the past, and you can be disgusted with your past self. But you can also change your present and your future, and strive to be someone that past self wouldn't recognize, and who wouldn't recognize your past self.

You want disgust from us, because you feel unworthy of love, or even respect. I can be disgusted by your past self, while still holding out respect and love for your future self.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:38 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem posted about the Darkness inside you, and the fight waged for you from within.

I'm reminded of the old proverb about the Indian and the two wolves, where a wise old Indian is telling his grandchild that inside each of us, there are two wolves fighting for control. One is kind, nurturing, caring, and full of love for the world and all its creatures. The other is vicious, ravenous, gnashing, ready to tear apart the world and everything in it.

The child listens, wide-eyed, and then asks, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"

"The one you feed," he replied.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:49 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Amen.


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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:56 PM

OONJERAH



The proverb of the Two Wolves is one of my favorites, too.
What a great perspective!

How many times a day do I go off on some negative rant? And
then finally wake up to myself, "Oops! I'm feedin' the Wrong
Wolf."

Elegant simplicity.

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 12:59 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Hey, Byte and Oonjy.. want me to solve your issues?



"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:15 PM

BYTEMITE


I can't speak for Oonj, but if you are there when that time comes, then yes, you may shoot me Wulf.

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Tuesday, October 16, 2012 4:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

The proverb of the Two Wolves is one of my favorites, too.
What a great perspective!

How many times a day do I go off on some negative rant? And
then finally wake up to myself, "Oops! I'm feedin' the Wrong
Wolf."

Elegant simplicity.



He can be an effective guard dog and protector, but he's not the one you should let in the house to sleep by your bed.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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