REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

A thinking Christian speaks out

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:33
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Monday, November 19, 2012 4:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

On "The Daily Show" recently, Jon Stewart grilled Mike Huckabee about a TV ad in which Huckabee urged voters to support “biblical values” at the voting box.

When Huckabee said that he supported the “biblical model of marriage,” Stewart shot back that “the biblical model of marriage is polygamy.”

And there’s a big problem, Stewart went on, with reducing “biblical values” to one or two social issues such as abortion and gay marriage, while ignoring issues such as poverty and immigration reform.

It may come as some surprise that as an evangelical Christian, I cheered Stewart on from my living room couch.

As someone who loves the Bible and believes it to be the inspired word of God, I hate seeing it reduced to an adjective like Huckabee did. I hate seeing my sacred text flattened out, edited down and used as a prop to support a select few political positions and platforms.

And yet evangelicals have grown so accustomed to talking about the Bible this way that we hardly realize we’re doing it anymore. We talk about “biblical families,” “biblical marriage,” “biblical economics,” “biblical politics,” “biblical values,” “biblical stewardship,” “biblical voting,” “biblical manhood,” “biblical womanhood,” even “biblical dating” to create the impression that the Bible has just one thing to say on each of these topics - that it offers a single prescriptive formula for how people of faith ought to respond to them.

But the Bible is not a position paper. The Bible is an ancient collection of letters, laws, poetry, proverbs, histories, prophecies, philosophy and stories spanning multiple genres and assembled over thousands of years in cultures very different from our own.

When we turn the Bible into an adjective and stick it in front of another loaded word, we tend to ignore or downplay the parts of the Bible that don’t quite fit our preferences and presuppositions. In an attempt to simplify, we force the Bible’s cacophony of voices into a single tone and turn a complicated, beautiful, and diverse holy text into a list of bullet points we can put in a manifesto or creed. More often than not, we end up more committed to what we want the Bible to say than what it actually says.

Nowhere is this more evident than in conversations surrounding “biblical womanhood.”

Growing up in the Bible Belt, I received a lot of mixed messages about the appropriate roles of women in the home, the church and society, each punctuated with the claim that this or that lifestyle represented true “biblical womanhood.”

In my faith community, popular women pastors such as Joyce Meyer were considered unbiblical for preaching from the pulpit in violation of the apostle Paul's restriction in 1 Timothy 2:12 ("I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent").

Pastors told wives to submit to their husbands as the apostle Peter instructed in 1 Peter 3:1. Despite the fact that being single was praised by both Jesus and Paul, I learned early on that marriage and motherhood were my highest callings, and that Proverbs 31 required I keep a home as tidy as June Cleaver's.

This didn’t really trouble me until adulthood, when I found myself in a childless egalitarian marriage with a blossoming career and an interest in church leadership and biblical studies. As I wrestled with what it meant to be a woman of faith, I realized that, despite insistent claims that we don’t “pick and choose” from the Bible, any claim to a “biblical” lifestyle requires some serious selectivity.

After all, technically speaking, it is “biblical” for a woman to be sold by her father to pay off debt, “biblical” for a woman to be required to marry her rapist, “biblical” for her to be one of many wives.

So why are some Bible passages lifted out and declared “biblical,” while others are explained away or simply ignored? Does the Bible really present a single prescriptive lifestyle for all women? http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/17/my-take-the-danger-of-calling
-behavior-biblical/?hpt=hp_c3


She goes on to describe how she spent a year as a "biblical woman", and her conclusion that "The fact of the matter is, we all pick and choose. We’re all selective in our interpretation and application of the biblical text. The better question to ask one another is why we pick and choose the way that we do, why we emphasis some passages and not others. This, I believe, will elevate the conversation so that we’re using the Bible, not as a blunt weapon, but as a starting point for dialogue."

I found her questions extremely interesting, as I've wondered the same things myself. Is it the power of men in the Church that allows them to pick and choose what to preach, as a way of exercising control over their flock, or is there something else at work?

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Monday, November 19, 2012 10:06 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Well written piece, I can definitely agree with some of her points. There are lots of women doing different things in the Bible, businesswomen, mothers, wives, single women, Deborah was a prophet and a judge for goodness sake. Abigail was ten times smarter than her first husband, Solomon's lover who is featured is super sexy, its way more complicated than people like to think. And I can't help but think the John Stewart segment about polygomy is funny, because yeah, people did that back then. That's why when I argue against same sex marriage I don't use the "one man one woman thousands of years" statement, because it doesn't quite hold up when phrased that way.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, November 19, 2012 11:13 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
...or is there something else at work?


Yes.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, November 19, 2012 11:23 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I don't use the "one man one woman thousands of years" statement, because it doesn't quite hold up when phrased that way.


I like bacon, oppose gay marriage, don't think creationism should be taught in science class, believe God created the heavens and the earth, enjoy working on the sabbath, but oppose polygamy. I'm pretty sure that all makes me a moderate on the whole old testiment biblical thing.

Oh, and 'thou shalt not kill unless somebody is trying to kill thou or break into thine home to taketh thy Playstation' (its a loose translation).

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Monday, November 19, 2012 1:36 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I don't like having the Bible shoved in my face, and I also don't like having it removed from all aspects of life. That's the middle ground that my family and I have always believed in. We believe in God, but we abhor organized religion. The Founding Fathers got it right. Those religious men went out of their way to proclaim that our human rights are derived from God, but our public laws and private lives are our own.

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Monday, November 19, 2012 2:48 PM

OONJERAH



. . . .
^ Hearty agreement.



======================

A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

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Monday, November 19, 2012 4:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA



That's not "middle ground" for me.

When laws are made which enforce MY compliance with someone ELSES religious ideals I not only do not hold, but consider downright inhumane, it's not compromise at all.

I don't mind people believing what they believe, but the very instant they push theirs on me I am inclined to push back with overwhelming force.

Natural rights exist Naturally, deisms notwithstanding, because they are HUMAN rights, and we're human, tho I wish some of us would act so more often.

-F

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Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:

I like bacon, oppose gay marriage, don't think creationism should be taught in science class, believe God created the heavens and the earth, enjoy working on the sabbath, but oppose polygamy. I'm pretty sure that all makes me a moderate on the whole old testiment biblical thing.

Oh, and 'thou shalt not kill unless somebody is trying to kill thou or break into thine home to taketh thy Playstation' (its a loose translation).

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012



Save for the God™ thingy, that sums up my views as well.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:11 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Is it the power of men in the Church that allows them to pick and choose what to preach, as a way of exercising control over their flock, or is there something else at work?

All people pick and choose from their religious texts. No one allows or not allows them--it is just done.

Anyone who pretends to follow the whole Bible literally, without picking and choosing, is lying.

-----

Don’t waste your life not making amazing things with equally amazing people.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

Anyone who pretends to follow the whole Bible literally, without picking and choosing, is lying.



And that's the beauty about religious texts, that folks can pick and choose which parts are to be read / followed 'literally', and which parts are to be seen as metaphors.


Life of Brian pointed out the absurdity of such problems quite humorously.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, I'll prolly get in big trouble for this, but in my mind "thinking Xtian" is a contradiction in terms. In fact, anyone who professes to think... but only about certain questions and only up to a certain point... isn't a thinker at all. But that's just me.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:33 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, it's not just you. It's pretty much my bias as well, given all the contradictions in Christianity and how it's been "used" in the world around me. I have no problem with whatever people believe in, but I have difficulty accepting them as having thought through the logic of worshipping a "god". I guess you could say I "appreciate" her recognizingt he wrongness of how some use her religion and in that way she's thoughtful. But no, I can't consider people who firmly believe in the bible or any other religious text as "thinking". So in that respect it's me, too.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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