REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

It's a Catholic Thing

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:53
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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 1:37 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Beware. This is the kind of thing that will happen in the US if you allow the anti abortionists to continue to gain hand in policy making.

Quote:


GALWAY: A senior midwife told an Indian woman her baby could not be terminated as she miscarried in an Irish hospital because "It's a Catholic thing", an inquest has heard.

Mrudula Vasealli said her friend Savita Halappanavar pleaded for her baby's heartbeat to be stopped when medical staff at Galway University Hospital said the foetus could not be saved.

Savita said, 'I can't take this waiting for the baby to die.'
Mrudula Vasealli

"She said, the midwife, 'We do not do that here dear. It's a Catholic thing"', Ms Vasealli told Galway Coroners Court.

"The nurses were lovely, They took good care of her. It's the system that was wrong."


Ms Halappanavar, 31, died from septicaemia on October 28, a week after she was admitted suffering from a miscarriage 17 weeks into her pregnancy.

Ms Vasealli and friends were at the hospital when Ms Halappanavar's husband Praveen was told she was suffering multi-organ failure and died from a heart attack.

"Somebody said Praveen collapsed," she said.

"He was brought to the lobby. He was vomiting there. He couldn't walk. After about half an hour we all went home."

Praveen Halappanavar previously told the inquest his Hindu wife asked for a termination three times before she finally delivered her dead baby daughter four days earlier.

Consultant obstetrician Katherine Astbury has denied his claims that she refused a termination on the grounds that it is "a Catholic country".

Ms Vasealli spent the day with Ms Halappanavar on the Tuesday before her death.

Ms Vasealli said in her statement which was read in the court: "Savita was very upset again because the foetal heartbeat was still there. She cried, saying 'What kind of mother am I waiting for my own baby to stop it's heartbeat? I'm losing it, I'm losing it terribly.' "

She told coroner Ciaran MacLoughlin that her friend cried continuously as a midwife checked again for a heartbeat between 11.30am and noon.

"We both, Savita and I, asked if there was a possibility of saving the baby because there was still a heartbeat after three days," she said.

"Savita said 'Can you please save it. If you can't do something to stop the foetal heartbeat, I can't take this waiting for the baby to die.' "

The court was adjourned while barristers for the hospital attempted to identify the staff member by her description and the roster.

Declan Buckley, senior counsel, said the "best guess" the hospital could make was that the woman was clinical midwife manager Ann Maria Burke, whose statement makes no reference to the allegation.

The coroner ordered that Ms Burke be added to the list of witnesses to be called.

Ms Halappanavar carried the baby until the Wednesday but by that night she was in critical condition in intensive care, where she died the following Sunday.

Earlier family friend Rupanjali Kundu, a senior house officer in obstetrics at the hospital, said she visited Ms Halappanavar on the Monday and Wednesday when she noticed a significant change in her health.

"She was lying on the bed and she was unable to speak that much," she said.

"She looked really ill. It was a significant change."

The inquest continues.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/its-a-catholic-thing-abortion-inquest-t
old-20130410-2hk69.html#ixzz2Q0nPaaWp



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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 2:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I saw the thread title and figured this was about dealing meth and buying sex shops to launder the money...


But this is even worse than that.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


This is an old story and much more complicated that it appears. Savita Halappanavar had some time earlier gone to a hospital and told doctors that her baby was dead and she needed it removed. They did the ultrasound and found this was not the case, the baby was still alive. She later returned to ask again, and then died from the necrotic infection. It appears very strongly to be a self inflicted injury, and there was some suspicion that her belief that the baby was dead initially had come from previous attempts to inflict self injury to the goal of terminating the pregnancy.

It is additionally complicated by the fact that Ms. Halappanavar who is not a irish woman of indian descent or an ex-pat, rather she was still and Indian citizen, and she was spending some months pursuing this abortion in perhaps the only country in europe where it is illegal. In the EU, there is freedom of travel, so anyone in Ireland would only need to drive an hour or two to N. ireland, or take a three hour ferry to great britain, to seek an abortion. If she were irish, she might suffer some pressure not to do this, but as an indian she's not about to be stopped. Additionally of course, she could have returned to india to have the abortion, if need be, but she could have done it much easier and cheaper in europe, yet she chose to stay and fight what appeared to be an ideological battle against the state of ireland, a place she wasn't from.

If I had to venture a theory, I'd suggest a less scrupulous soul put her up to it.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 4:57 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


cites please

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:02 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


it is my understanding that she was suffering a miscarriage. it is quite inhumane to get a women in this condition to travel to somewhere else to get medical treatment, but this is something that women are forced to do in Ireland.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/time-for-an-abortion-law-to-stop-iris
h-women-suffering-1.555375


This is the situation when religious doctrine is allowed precedence over treatment of people. In Ireland, even if your life is at risk due to pregnancy you will not be able to obtain an abortion. A life of an unborn fetus is given precedence over its mother's life. This is what some pro abortion zeolots wish to see happen in the US. Disgraceful.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 5:07 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


All information available does not seem to indicate any truth to your story, DT.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/husband-relives-when-hi
s-wife-savita-halappanavar-asked-for-a-termination-only-to-be-told-this-is-a-catholic-country-8563811.html


Appears that the couple had been living in Ireland for several years, that the mother wanted the baby, but only sought termination after being told it would not survive.

Love to see your cites.

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:29 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
All information available does not seem to indicate any truth to your story, DT.



Imagine that.


Quote:


Appears that the couple had been living in Ireland for several years, that the mother wanted the baby, but only sought termination after being told it would not survive.

Love to see your cites.




Best of luck with that. DT is even less likely to come up with valid cites than Rappy or Geezer are.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:30 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:


If I had to venture a theory, I'd suggest a less scrupulous soul put her up to it.




I was just thinking the same thing. About you, I mean.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I remember this story very well, it was covered extensively, and I believe I may have been the person to put it up initially. Nowhere, in any of the myriad news reports I perused to get information on the issue, did I see any hint of ANY of the things DT posted. I am extremely interested in seeing sites to back up his assertions.


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 7:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Really curious about this one, so I've been doing some searching. I found a POST from a man in Australia under the title "Savita induced her own abortion " which reads:
Quote:

This is how the Indians lie and scam...
In Ireland an indian woman Savita Halappanavar was pregnant and then 'suddenly suffered' from a ruptured placenta etc ~ an absolutely sure sign of a backstreet attempt to kill the child.
This is a week after she had tests to check the sex of the child.
She went to the Irish govt health and asked for an abortion, but in ireland you cant have one if the fetus is alive.
By now she was sick so couldn't get out to have the usual abortion that is routine for all Indian woman.
So she killed herself.
This then reignited the debate over legalizing abortion in Ireland.
Enter the mother. Now her daughters dead, the daughters husband gets the dowry as inheritance. So the mother is whinging and wants 'compensation'
Enter the husband. He also extends out his beggar hands to demand an enquiry and get 'compensation'
Neither want the daughter back or really care much about why she died but somehow its everyone else's ' fault'.
Facts are Indian woman attempting self induced abortions by rupturing the placenta (usually by techniques of applying rapid pressure and shock to kill the baby like this) are COMMON.
And Savita died of ecoli and blood poisoning that was self induced, whether the baby was aborted or not would make no difference at all.
This Indians in our society and how they behave.
Everyone else has to be blamed, they lie, they deceive, half truth of everything.
And always the hand goes out to steal.
This is why they are so disliked.


When asked for links or sites, the poster never returned. I won't post some of the responses they got...

I've spent an hour or so trying different Google searches, but aside from that one post, I can't find anything else anywhere which references what this person ("Mr. White Australia") and DT claim. I'd be most appreciative if anyone else can, or if DT would grace us with some cites/links/something...?


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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)





That's a long wait for a train don't come, Niki.



LIke Rappy, DT just drops in to lob some poo, then he vanishes again in a puff of asinine.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 12:29 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Well then, if some rascist Australian with a hatred of Indians posts this information, it must be true.

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Wednesday, April 10, 2013 4:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Beware. This is the kind of thing that will happen in the US if you allow the anti abortionists to continue to gain hand in policy making.


Oh that's just the beginning.

You really wanna know where THAT train goes, google one phrase.
Ceausescu's Children.

The wellspring of horror which came from that is a large part of the reason I hate such people with a burning, bitter passion, and am wholly unapologetic about it.

-Frem

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 4:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Magons; I almost wanted to offer an apology for putting up such a string of filth from an Ozzie...but then I went to the SITE from which it originated (some kind of forum board) and there was, believe me, far worse on the subject of Indians. Is racism toward them more common Down Under than it is here? Made me wonder...


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Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I would really, sincerely, like to read any links DT has to what he put up...?

If he can't offer any backup, I'm afraid that for me this puts into question anything and everything DT posts in future. He's made many, many posts about historical facts and such, and I've respected his arguments--NOT all the time, I freely grant, but at least half of the time. Now I'm wondering if I should EVER give credence to what he offers, and I'm asking him to please provide cites or links or something to what he wrote here.


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Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:41 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I would really, sincerely, like to read any links DT has to what he put up...?

If he can't offer any backup, I'm afraid that for me this puts into question anything and everything DT posts in future. He's made many, many posts about historical facts and such, and I've respected his arguments--NOT all the time, I freely grant, but at least half of the time. Now I'm wondering if I should EVER give credence to what he offers, and I'm asking him to please provide cites or links or something to what he wrote here.




Don't hold your breath, Niki. While he can often be sensible about things, I've noticed that abortion is a serious hot button issue for DT. It is never never never never never okay because dead kids, period. It's a vast conspiracy to kill children, and there is zero shade of gray anywhere in the issue. To the point where any clinic that even offers abortions is pure evil and can't possibly do anything that is not furthering this imaginary agenda of infanticide. I've run up against this particular wall before, when I tried to point out how many things Planned Parenthood offered that were not abortions, citing the number of years I personally went there for some of my care without ever having an abortion, not to mention all the numbers that point to less than ten percent of their funds being used for that particular purpose. I seriously doubt he's going to budge on this or offer anything except outrage and emotional arguments.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ah, thank you Rose (nice to see 'ya, lady!)...maybe he read the same stuff that Australian did and just accepted it. I know he's weird about abortion, run into it before, and eugenics is connected in his mind and stuff, but this is SO over the top, I thought he must have gotten it SOMEWHERE he could point to. How sad.

Given the shit he just posted about "feminazis", etc., I guess there are just some places his brain "doesn't go" or something. I think it's best if I just question anything he puts up in future, unless he can cite or link or I already know it's true.

Thanx.


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Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:50 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah, Magons; I almost wanted to offer an apology for putting up such a string of filth from an Ozzie...but then I went to the SITE from which it originated (some kind of forum board) and there was, believe me, far worse on the subject of Indians. Is racism toward them more common Down Under than it is here? Made me wonder...




His name really gives it away, Mr White Australia. Some people will oppose whatever group of immigrants are currently entering the country, if they are not white of course.

It's kind of laughable really, given that unless you are of Indigenous heritage, you are an immigrant or descended from one. But there are always some people filled with hatred.

And yes, DT's arguments around this issue can be both extreme and irrational as he views abortion as hand in hand with eugenics, ignoring the fact that - at least in the developed world - women procure them for individual reasons.

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Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup; same is true here, but sure doesn't stop 'em. Selective mentality is always very strange...funny, except where it hurts others...


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