REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"Common sense" holds Assad responsible?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, December 6, 2024 22:00
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Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


When you got no evidence, you appeal to "common sense". That seems to be Obama's spin on this.

Quote:

The White House asserted Sunday that a "common-sense test" rather than "irrefutable, beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence" makes the Syrian government responsible for a chemical weapons attack that President Barack Obama says demands a U.S. military response.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-common-sense-test-holds-assad-responsible-130
319320--politics.html


Four years ago, Assad was a non-issue. If asked, maybe 1 out of 1000 people could have told you who the head of Syria was. Suddenly, he becomes the world's enemy #1?

Wow, see THAT before: Grenada! Panama! Afghanistan! IRAQ! Libya! We have a never-ending string of nations in our gunsights, it seems. And no sooner do we start one war than we start looking for another. The media is already lining up on Iran. Coming to a war theater near you.
http://blogs.reuters.com/ian-bremmer/2013/09/06/iran-is-americas-real-
middle-east-priority
/

Yanno, we've been on this treadmill before. You would think BY NOW the American people would recognize the same crap that's been recycled oh-so-many times before.


If you don't do anything else... if you don't call the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/write-or-call

or call your Senators
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

and Representative
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

...then sign this.
http://act.credoaction.com/sign/obama_syria/

Parliament voted against a Syrian strike because 80% of British citizens are against it. No matter how much a Parliamentarian might want to grease his or her way through this issue, they KNOW if they vote for it their ass will be grass with their constituents. Do the same.

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Not so secret... the WSJ let the cat out of the bag. The Saudis are really really looking forward to ousting Assad and installing QA Sunnis in Syria.

Quote:

Prince Bandar—for two decades one of the most influential deal makers in Washington as Saudi ambassador but who had largely disappeared from public view—is now reprising his role as a geopolitical operator. This time it is to advance the Saudi kingdom's top foreign-policy goal, defeating Syrian President Assad and his Iranian and Hezbollah allies.

Prince Bandar has been jetting from covert command centers near the Syrian front lines to the Élysée Palace in Paris and the Kremlin in Moscow, seeking to undermine the Assad regime, according to Arab, American and European officials.

Meanwhile, an influential protégé, current Saudi Ambassador to Washington Adel al-Jubeir, is leading a parallel campaign to coax Congress and a reluctant Obama administration to expand the U.S. role in Syria.

The conflict there has become a proxy war for Middle East factions, and Saudi Arabia's efforts in Syria are just one sign of its broader effort to expand its regional influence. The Saudis also have been outspoken supporters of the Egyptian military in its drive to squelch the Muslim Brotherhood, backing that up with big chunks of cash.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323423804579024452583045
962.html


Quote:

The Wall Street Journal recently revealed new details about how Prince Bandar bin Sultan al-Saud — Saudi’s former ambassador to the United States — is leading the effort to prop up the Syrian rebels. Intelligence agents from Saudi Arabia, the United States, Jordan and other allied states are working at a secret joint operations center in Jordan to train and arm hand-picked Syrian rebels. The Journal also reports Prince Bandar has been jetting from covert command centers near the Syrian front lines to the Élysée Palace in Paris and the Kremlin in Moscow, seeking to undermine the Assad regime. "Really what he’s doing is he’s reprising a role that he played in the 1980s when he worked with the Reagan administration to arrange money and arms for mujahideen fighters in Afghanistan and also worked with the CIA in Nicaragua to support the Contras," says Wall Street Journal reporter Adam Entous. "So in many ways this is a very familiar position for Prince Bandar, and it’s amazing to see the extent to which veterans of the CIA were excited to see him come back because, in the words of a diplomat who knows Bandar, he brings the Arabic term wasta, which means under-the-table clout. You know his checks are not going to bounce and that he’ll be able to deliver the money from the Saudis."


I know I posted this before, but it bears repeating: This was has nothing to do with American security or "humanitarian" goals and everything to do with Saudi territorial and religious expansion. Israel is sitting very quietly by... they and AQ and the Saudis get along quite well, thank you.

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 11:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!




Vogue article.

Seems the petals have fallen off the rose as of late.

Back when the Kerry's would dine w/ the Assads, life was simply marvelous.

Now ? He's suddenly Hitler, he's evil incarnate.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 2:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh, you use whatever argument you think will gain traction. In Iraq it was all about WMD. In Grenada it was all about those poor American medical students. In Panama it was all about Noriega being a big drug runner and being a "pineapple face" (from childhood acne). In Afghanistan it was all about 9-11, altho Afghanistan had fuck-all to do with it. In Libya it was all about Qaddafi being such a horrible dictator, although life in Libya now is far worse than it was then.

I think some people realize that politicians lie and that the press goes along with it, but that most people don't realize just HOW MUCH politicians lie and just HOW MUCH the press goes along with it. Whatever story in the press is whatever narrative is convenient for the moment. So there will be a Bad Guy. And there will be a Good Guy. And sometimes the Good Guy and the Bad Guy even change places! And if we run out of Bad Guys, another one will be indentified right quickly, otherwise how to fuck do we continue to make war?

It has very little to do with what's actually happening. Success depends on the people at large not remembering more than 6 months back, and simply not sitting down and THINKING their way through the fog. Since we have a very religious population which is unused to thinking about anything at all, but accepts The Word on the basis of sheer belief despite the fact that it contradicts basic day-to-day experience in the most fundamental levels... well, you can count on approximately 35% of the people here to have their heads stuck up their asses no matter what.

Quote:

Fwiw I have written all of my reps.
Good for you!

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 5:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RAPPY, hell just froze over. We find ourselves, inexplicably, on the same side.

However, I just want to remind you that Obama is simply doing (clumsily) what Bush, Daddy Bush, and Reagan did before him. The person behind Al Qaida in Syria is Bandar bin Sultan, affectionately known as "Bandar Bush" for his close ties with the Bush family.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/22/who-is-bandar-bush/


And Assad isn't the first dictator we cosied up to. Most famously, we looked to Saddam Hussein to be our secular bulwark against the crazy Iranian zealots.
Quote:

"It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush, operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into the power it became", and "Reagan/Bush administrations permitted—and frequently encouraged—the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the
_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ (NSA archives)

Rumsfeld and Saddam shake hands



Quote:

When Rumsfeld visited Baghdad on December 20, 1983, he met Saddam Hussein at Saddam's palace and had a 90-minute discussion. They largely agreed on opposing Syria's occupation of Lebanon; preventing Syrian and Iranian expansion; and preventing arms sales to Iran.
Wow, nothing has changed in 30 years- Iran and Syria are still the "bad guys"?
Quote:

Rumsfeld suggested that if U.S.-Iraq relations could improve the U.S. might support a new oil pipeline across Jordan, which Iraq had opposed but was now willing to reconsider. Rumsfeld also informed Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz that "Our efforts to assist were inhibited by certain things that made it difficult for us ... citing the use of chemical weapons."
Oh dear. Chemical weapons. The ones that we supplied satellite intel to Saddam Hussein (1987-88) so that he could use them against the Iranian army.


I know you're not much of a reader, and this is a long post with a lot of citations (I DID try to provide a lot of pictures tho!) so I'm going to sum this up for you: As much as you hate Obama, just turn that same hatred to Bush, Daddy Bush, and Reagan. They're all the same.

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 6:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


2 schools of thought... wear your heart on your sleeve, and outwardly reject those with whom you disagree, or keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

Not sure which works best. Likely there's no one 'right' way to treat dictators, in every situation. One size does not fit all, I suppose.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 8, 2013 6:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

2 schools of thought... wear your heart on your sleeve, and outwardly reject those with whom you disagree, or keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
Yep! You should supply your enemies with money, intel, and weapons. Works like a charm!

Quote:

Not sure which works best. Likely there's no one 'right' way to treat dictators, in every situation. One size does not fit all, I suppose.
There is only ONE way to treat dictators, and that is to do what is within your power to make them less dicatorial. I already outlined that with Geezer.


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Monday, September 9, 2013 6:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If you don't do anything else... if you don't call the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/write-or-call

or call your Senators
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

and Representative
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

...then sign this.
http://act.credoaction.com/sign/obama_syria/

Parliament voted against a Syrian strike because 80% of British citizens are against it. No matter how much a Parliamentarian might want to grease his or her way through this issue, they KNOW if they vote for it their ass will be grass with their constituents. Do the same.




One down, one to go! At least, here in GA.

Sen. Johnny Isakson (R), once in favor of military action, has gone from ' on the fence', and today has JUST announced that he's AGAINST striking Syria !!

He said the constituents of GA have made their views VERY clear. STAY OUT OF SYRIA!


http://www.ajc.com/news/ap/georgia/sen-isakson-plans-to-vote-against-s
triking-syria/nZrRz
/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, September 9, 2013 6:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Just breaking -

Sen Reid will now DELAY test vote on military force in Syria.


Gee, why would THAT be ????

Support waning, he doesn't have the votes ?

Putin offering a non military compromise, involving the Syrians handing over their chem weapons to International authority, and it's looking like Syria is all for this idea ?

Folks,, the Russians are schooling the ever living hell out of The Chosen One, and in the area of his alleged specialty - Diplomacy !!

When the Russians look like the adults on the world stage, and the US look like spoiled bratty children who have been ignored, you KNOW things are bad !


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, December 6, 2024 6:35 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


some continue to post reports that he wanted to 'Gas' his own people

Bashar al-Assad’s regime will not survive long if rebels keep on
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bashar-al-assad-regime-not-201034246.html

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Friday, December 6, 2024 10:00 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
some continue to post reports that he wanted to 'Gas' his own people

Bashar al-Assad’s regime will not survive long if rebels keep on
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bashar-al-assad-regime-not-201034246.html

Well, that's not in the article you linked. So where do people continue to post that?



-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger


AMERICANS SUPPORT AMERICA


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