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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Millions Facing Huge Costs, Lost Coverage Thanks to Obamacare Upheaval
Monday, October 28, 2013 4:55 PM
JONGSSTRAW
Quote:In California, tens of thousands of residents are facing higher premiums or are being dropped altogether from their insurance companies. In Florida and Pennsylvania, nearly 500,000 have lost coverage. Overall, economists estimate that between 20 and 40 million could ultimately lose their employer-provided insurance because of Obamacare.
Monday, October 28, 2013 4:58 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Monday, October 28, 2013 5:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor:
Monday, October 28, 2013 5:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: The Dark Side clouds everything...
Monday, October 28, 2013 6:00 PM
Monday, October 28, 2013 6:10 PM
Monday, October 28, 2013 7:19 PM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:00 AM
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:23 AM
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Verdict: Bullshit. It's not personal. It's just war.
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:50 AM
Quote:Screw what Mitt Romney said,a year and a half ago.
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:02 AM
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:50 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:19 PM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Quote:Screw what Mitt Romney said,a year and a half ago. Haha if you recognise that what Romney said was bullshit, why are you guys parroting the exact same lie? The facts now... You realise that 500,000 is not 40 million or 20 million or any number of 'millions' (as claimed in this thread), right? It's not personal. It's just war.
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 1:29 PM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:The conversation about Obamacare shifted a bit over the weekend. Nobody has forgotten about the technical problems with healthcare.gov. But now critics are also focusing on something else: Reports of sharp premium increases that some individual consumers are facing. In the last few weeks, several hundred thousand Americans have received notices from their health insurance companies, effectively cancelling their existing policies. These consumers can get new policies, of course, but frequently they have to pay more for them. The news reports are real—and not at all surprising. Obamacare is transforming one part of the existing health insurance market, in ways that will force some people to pay more than they do now. But that’s only part of the story. Many other people, quite possibly the majority of people in that market, will pay less than they do now. And even those paying more will be getting more comprehensive, more secure insurance. If all of this sounds familiar, it should. Health policy experts spent much of the summer arguing about this very point—about the likelihood of both “rate shock” and “premium joy” and which effect matters more. The lesson of that debate (at least to me) was that journalists, politicians, and anybody else talking about this should really provide a full, nuanced picture—noting all the ways Obamacare is affecting premiums and how that will play out for people in different situations. But that doesn't seem to be happening, except at places like Politifact. More typical is a recent study from the Heritage Foundation suggesting that most people will end up paying more. That report continues to reverberate throughout the right wing press, even though it left out half the facts. So here’s a quick refresher on what's really happening: 1. For the vast majority of Americans, very little is changing. Most Americans get insurance either through Medicare, Medicaid, or an employer. The Affordable Care Act isn’t doing much to alter premiums or out-of-pockets of these plans, at least for the time being. The big changes are mostly taking place in the “non-group” market—that is, for individuals who buy coverage on their own rather than through an employer. 2. One of Obamacare’s primary goals is to make sure everybody has a decent health insurance policy. Under the law, every plan should include a comprehensive set of benefits and put some limits on what people pay out-of-pocket. The policies now available in the non-group market frequently don’t meet those standards. They might leave out benefits like maternity or mental health—or they might have truly exorbitant deductibles. Starting next year, insurers can’t sell new policies unless they meet Obamacare’s standards. That will tend to make insurance more expensive. 3. Another major goal of Obamacare is to make sure all people can get coverage at uniform prices, regardless of pre-existing conditions. This is known as “guaranteed issue” and “community rating.” Today insurers frequently charge higher premiums or deny coverage altogether to people with pre-existing conditions. This allows them to keep prices low for the young and the healthy. Obamacare will force insurers to abandon these practices. But if the old and the sick get to pay less, the young and the healthy will have to pay more. 4. Obamacare has already introduced some reforms to keep down the price of insurance. Some of these are designed to make medical care itself more efficient—in ways that, hopefully, will eventually reduce insurance premiums. Other reforms attempt to influence insurance prices directly, by, for example, limiting how much money insurers can siphon off for premiums and overhead. A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation suggested this provision, known as the "medical loss ratio" requirement, saved consumers about $2.1 billion in 2012. 5. Obamacare also has subsidies that offset premium increases for the majority of Americans. The value of the tax credits, which are financed by higher taxes on the wealthy and various cuts to government health care spending, varies depending on the incomes of the people receiving them. But in some cases they are worth several thousand dollars. That would be enough to wipe out any premium increases from the law’s new regulations. People making just a little above the poverty line will frequently have access to policies that cost less than $100 a month. Keep in mind that the tax credits are available upfront, when somebody buys insurance—so it’s really more like a discount on the sticker price than a tax benefit somebody collects later on. 6. Lots of people buying non-group insurance today will find they can get insurance for much, much less than they are paying today. Partly that’s because of the tax credits. But partly that’s because they’ll become eligible for Medicaid—at least in those states joining in the program’s expansion. Young adults, under the age of 26, also have the option of enrolling in their parents’ plans. And people younger than 30 will have access to special catastrophic plans that are even cheaper than other Obamacare insurance options, though they cover less. 7. These factors will mix together in different ways for different people, depending on income, place of residence, and so on. There’s lots of disagreement about how many people will pay more versus how many people will pay less. (The experts I trust most continue to say that, most likely, the majority of people will end up paying less.) But even if those paying more are a relatively tiny percentage of the population overall, they will still be a large group in raw numbers. It’s a big country! That’s why there are so many of these stories circulating right now. Of course, even those people paying more for their coverage will be paying rates that are, for the most part, comparable to the cost of insurance that employers provide to employees. They'll also be getting a level of coverage and security the old non-group market usually did not provide. Are these trade-offs worthwhile? Is it fair to make the young, healthy, and wealthy subsidize the old, sick, and non-wealthy? Those are obviously issues about which intelligent, honest people can disagree. And right now the only way to get those all-important tax credits is through the healthcare.gov website—or call centers and paper applications that ultimately rely on the same technology. The people who stand to benefit from this transition don’t know it yet, because they aren’t able to log on and see how much they’ll save. That’s a big reason the stories of rate hikes are getting so much attention—and one more reason the federal governmetn needs to fix its website soon. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115372/how-obamacare-changing-insurance-premiums-and-coverage
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:12 PM
Tuesday, October 29, 2013 10:15 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Niki, you're flat out wrong. Not only will MILLIONS be forced out of their plans, but Obama KNEW this would happen.
Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:30 PM
Quote:It's not a lie, first and foremost.
Quote:I mean, he was right, and may have gotten the figures a bit off
Quote:What's going on NOW isn't relevant to what Romney said
Thursday, October 31, 2013 4:11 AM
SHINYGOODGUY
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:In California, tens of thousands of residents are facing higher premiums or are being dropped altogether from their insurance companies. In Florida and Pennsylvania, nearly 500,000 have lost coverage. Overall, economists estimate that between 20 and 40 million could ultimately lose their employer-provided insurance because of Obamacare. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-costs-losing-insurance/2013/10/28/id/533417 40 million have to lose their current insurance so that 40 million who never wanted to pay for it can get it. So everything Obama and the dickhead Dems ever said about it was a fucking lie. Socialism in a nutshell.
Thursday, October 31, 2013 8:20 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Problem is people are not being forced out because of the law. It has a grandfather clause. The insurance companies are cancelling polices on there own, in the hopes that people will use the subsidies and sign up for plans that will fit into the new requirements to spend 80% of premiums on health care.
Quote: The law did allow “grandfathered” plans — for people who had obtained their insurance before the law was signed on March 23, 2010 — to escape this requirement and some other aspects of the law. But the regulations written by HHS while implementing the law set some tough guidelines, so that if an insurance company makes changes to a plan’s benefits or how much members pay through premiums, co-pays or deductibles, then a person’s plan likely loses that status. If you dig into the regulations (go to page 34560), you will see that HHS wrote them extremely tight. One provision says that if co-payment increases by more than $5, plus medical cost of inflation, then the plan can no longer be grandfathered. (With last year’s inflation rate of 4 percent, that means the co-pay could not increase by more than $5.20.) Another provision says the co-insurance rate could not be increased at all above the level it was on March 23, 2010. While one might applaud an effort to rid the country of inadequate insurance, the net effect is that over time, the plans would no longer meet the many tests for staying grandfathered. Already, the percentage of people who get coverage from their job via a grandfathered plan has dropped from 56 percent in 2011 to 36 percent in 2013. In the individual insurance market, few plans were expected to meet the “grandfathered” requirements, which is why many people are now receiving notices that their old plan is terminated and they need to sign up for different coverage. Again, this should be no surprise. As HHS noted in a footnote of a report earlier this year: “We note that, as the Affordable Care Act is implemented, we expect grandfathered coverage to diminish, particularly in the individual market.”
Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Problem is people are not being forced out because of the law. It has a grandfather clause. The insurance companies are cancelling polices on there own, in the hopes that people will use the subsidies and sign up for plans that will fit into the new requirements to spend 80% of premiums on health care. The Washington Post disagrees with you... Quote: The law did allow “grandfathered” plans — for people who had obtained their insurance before the law was signed on March 23, 2010 — to escape this requirement and some other aspects of the law. But the regulations written by HHS while implementing the law set some tough guidelines, so that if an insurance company makes changes to a plan’s benefits or how much members pay through premiums, co-pays or deductibles, then a person’s plan likely loses that status. If you dig into the regulations (go to page 34560), you will see that HHS wrote them extremely tight. One provision says that if co-payment increases by more than $5, plus medical cost of inflation, then the plan can no longer be grandfathered. (With last year’s inflation rate of 4 percent, that means the co-pay could not increase by more than $5.20.) Another provision says the co-insurance rate could not be increased at all above the level it was on March 23, 2010. While one might applaud an effort to rid the country of inadequate insurance, the net effect is that over time, the plans would no longer meet the many tests for staying grandfathered. Already, the percentage of people who get coverage from their job via a grandfathered plan has dropped from 56 percent in 2011 to 36 percent in 2013. In the individual insurance market, few plans were expected to meet the “grandfathered” requirements, which is why many people are now receiving notices that their old plan is terminated and they need to sign up for different coverage. Again, this should be no surprise. As HHS noted in a footnote of a report earlier this year: “We note that, as the Affordable Care Act is implemented, we expect grandfathered coverage to diminish, particularly in the individual market.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/ ...and also gives Pres. Obama four Pinocchios for the "And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it." statement. The line "If you dig into the regulations (go to page 34560)..."
Thursday, October 31, 2013 5:49 PM
CHRISISALL
Friday, November 1, 2013 9:35 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: How does that disagree? If the insurance companies make changes to existing plans that disqualify those plans that is still on the insurance companies.
Friday, November 1, 2013 9:41 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: So, we're fighting here over...what exactly? ACA is shifting everything around- EVERYTHING. People ARE being dropped from their coverage, we KNEW this was gonna happen (forget what Obama parroted previously about no one getting dropped...
Friday, November 1, 2013 11:14 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: How does that disagree? If the insurance companies make changes to existing plans that disqualify those plans that is still on the insurance companies. If the rules are written so that the insurance conpanies can't meet them and stay in business, like freezing co-insurance payments at 2010 rates? When the HHS itself notes "“We note that, as the Affordable Care Act is implemented, we expect grandfathered coverage to diminish, particularly in the individual market.” someone should have figured out that many folks would not be able to keep their insurance. Then there are plans being dropped because they don't meet the requirements of the ACA for coverage - ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care. This stuff is wonderful, but - for example - Madame Geezer and I are not likely to need maternity and newborn care or pediatric services, but if our existing insurance plan didn't include them it would go away.
Friday, November 1, 2013 11:45 AM
ELVISCHRIST
Friday, November 1, 2013 11:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: As the article explains plans that do not meet the new requirments will only be dropped if they fall out of grandfather status. That, regardless of how the rules are written, is still on the insurance companies.
Friday, November 1, 2013 11:57 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:like freezing co-insurance payments at 2010 rates?
Quote:How many people are going to get cancellation notices? It's hard to put an exact number on this, given that insurance plans are the ones who decide whether or not to continue offering an insurance product. Experts have estimated that somewhere between half and three-quarters of those who currently buy their own policies will not have the option to renew coverage, which works out to around 7 to 12 million people.
Friday, November 1, 2013 12:22 PM
Quote: If the rules are written so that the insurance conpanies can't meet them and stay in business
Friday, November 1, 2013 12:40 PM
Friday, November 1, 2013 1:23 PM
Friday, November 1, 2013 1:58 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: NOBODY HERE IS HAPPY ABOUT OBAMACARE
Friday, November 1, 2013 2:38 PM
Friday, November 1, 2013 3:23 PM
Friday, November 1, 2013 10:22 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: ”The website might be slow. But, you know what’s fast? The questionnaire now. The questionnaire used to take a long time because they were looking for pre-existing conditions that you might have where they could throw you off. Now, that doesn’t exist. So, the questionnaire is: ‘Are you breathing?’ ‘Yes.’” -Bill Maher
Friday, November 1, 2013 10:31 PM
Friday, November 1, 2013 10:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: So I can see there's no point in this anymore. No matter how bad the healthcare.org rollout gets, or no matter how Obama lied to get the ACA passed, you'll just quote comedians and propagandists and post up cartoons. That's apparently your idea of debate. Think it's time for another break so y'all can have your left wing circle jerk in peace. See you later.
Friday, November 1, 2013 10:38 PM
Quote: Here are some things that happened on the night the GOP pushed the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit through the House of Representatives: A 15-minute vote was scheduled, and at the end of 15 minutes, the Democrats had won. The Republican leadership froze the clock for three hours while they desperately whipped defectors. This had never been done before. The closest was a 15-minute extension in 1987 that then-congressman Dick Cheney called “the most arrogant, heavy-handed abuse of power I’ve ever seen in the 10 years that I’ve been here.” Tom DeLay bribed Rep. Nick Smith to vote for the legislation, using the political future of Smith's son for leverage. DeLay was later reprimanded by the House Ethics Committee. The leadership told Rep. Jim DeMint that they would cut off funding for his Senate race in South Carolina if he didn't vote for the bill. The chief actuary of Medicare, Rick Foster, had scored the legislation as costing more than $500 billion. The Bush administration suppressed his report, in a move the Government Accounting Office later judged "illegal.” Rep. Jo Ann Emerson, a "no" vote, spent the night "hiding on the Democratic side of the floor, crouching down to avoid eye contact with the Republican search team."
Friday, November 1, 2013 10:51 PM
Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:59 AM
Saturday, November 2, 2013 1:10 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Everyone knows the rollout has been utterly fucked.
Saturday, November 2, 2013 9:08 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Niki, you're flat out wrong. Not only will MILLIONS be forced out of their plans, but Obama KNEW this would happen. Problem is people are not being forced out because of the law. It has a grandfather clause. The insurance companies are cancelling polices on there own, in the hopes that people will use the subsidies and sign up for plans that will fit into the new requirements to spend 80% of premiums on health care. Funny thing that it would have been MORE regulation that would have stopped this. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Quote: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare If you read the Affordable Care Act when it was passed, you knew that it was dishonest for President Obama to claim that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan,” as he did—and continues to do—on countless occasions. And we now know that the administration knew this all along. It turns out that in an obscure report buried in a June 2010 edition of the Federal Register, administration officials predicted massive disruption of the private insurance market. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/31/obama-officials-in-2010-93-million-americans-will-be-unable-to-keep-their-health-plans-under-obamacare/
Saturday, November 2, 2013 9:26 AM
Quote: The health law allowed plans that existed back in March 2010, when it became a law, to keep selling coverage. These are known as "grandfathered plans:" They don't meet the health law's requirements, but as long as they don't change much, insurers can keep offering them. Insurance companies typically do like to change their insurance plans, making changes to cost-sharing or the benefits they offer. That means that grandfathered plans have disappeared. These cancellations are, essentially, a lot of grandfathered plans exiting the insurance marketplace. From an insurance company's vantage point, grandfathered plans are a bit of a dead end: They can't enroll new subscribers and are really constrained in their ability to tweak the benefit package or cost-sharing structure. There's not a whole lot of business sense, for a managed care company, in maintaining a health plan that doesn't meet the health law's new requirements. There are lots of insurance policies, especially on the individual market, that are really bare bones. Some argue they shouldn't even be called insurance coverage, because their coverage is too sparse to insure against financial ruin. The whole idea of the insurance expansion isn't to get Americans to purchase anything called "insurance." It's to get them to purchase a plan that is relatively comprehensive and helps protect against financial ruin. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/29/this-is-why-obamacare-is-cancelling-some-peoples-insurance-plans/]
Saturday, November 2, 2013 10:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Niki, you're flat out wrong. Not only will MILLIONS be forced out of their plans, but Obama KNEW this would happen. Problem is people are not being forced out because of the law. It has a grandfather clause. The insurance companies are cancelling polices on there own, in the hopes that people will use the subsidies and sign up for plans that will fit into the new requirements to spend 80% of premiums on health care. Funny thing that it would have been MORE regulation that would have stopped this. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man. That's nothing but admin spin and lies. They did this SPECIFICALLY to kill the insurance companies, and Obama knew well in advance this would happen. It was by design. Quote: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare If you read the Affordable Care Act when it was passed, you knew that it was dishonest for President Obama to claim that “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan,” as he did—and continues to do—on countless occasions. And we now know that the administration knew this all along. It turns out that in an obscure report buried in a June 2010 edition of the Federal Register, administration officials predicted massive disruption of the private insurance market. http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/31/obama-officials-in-2010-93-million-americans-will-be-unable-to-keep-their-health-plans-under-obamacare/ Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen Resident USA Freedom Fundie " AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
Saturday, November 2, 2013 10:30 AM
Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Is that your prediction then Rap? 93 million to lose their insurance plans? It's not personal. It's just war.
Saturday, November 2, 2013 11:43 AM
Quote:Is that your prediction then Rap? 93 million to lose their insurance plans? -KPO It's the Obama admin's mid range estimate. Why are you asking if it's MY prediction ? -rappy
Quote: Senator Ron Johnson (R., Wisc.) and Rep. Fred Upton (R., Mich.) have proposed the “If You Like Your Health Care Plan You Can Keep It Act,” with dozens of co-sponsors. The two-page bill simply states that “nothing in [the Affordable Care Act] shall be construed to require that an individual terminate coverage under a group health plan or health insurance coverage in which such individual was enrolled during any part of the period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act and ending on December 31, 2013.”
Quote:That's nothing but admin spin and lies. They did this SPECIFICALLY to kill the insurance companies, and Obama knew well in advance this would happen. It was by design.
Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:48 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Quote:Originally posted by kpo: Is that your prediction then Rap? 93 million to lose their insurance plans? It's not personal. It's just war. It's the Obama admin's mid range estimate. Why are you asking if it's MY prediction ? Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen Resident USA Freedom Fundie " AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
Saturday, November 2, 2013 12:58 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: ”The website might be slow. But, you know what’s fast? The questionnaire now. The questionnaire used to take a long time because they were looking for pre-existing conditions that you might have where they could throw you off. Now, that doesn’t exist. So, the questionnaire is: ‘Are you breathing?’ ‘Yes.’” -Bill Maher So I can see there's no point in this anymore. No matter how bad the healthcare.org rollout gets, or no matter how Obama lied to get the ACA passed, you'll just quote comedians and propagandists and post up cartoons. That's apparently your idea of debate. Think it's time for another break so y'all can have your left wing circle jerk in peace. See you later.
Saturday, November 2, 2013 1:16 PM
Saturday, November 2, 2013 3:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: It's the Obama admin's mid range estimate. Why are you asking if it's MY prediction ?
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