"What's death? What's dying?" by Oonjerah

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"What's death? What's dying?"

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 14:22
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Monday, May 12, 2014 3:20 PM

"What's death? What's dying?"

Two basic concepts about death: 1. My body dies; my consciousness continues.
Or 2. I die and don't continue. I'm just all gone.

Well, I must continue, because I've had out of body experiences. And I've seen other people after they died, in my dreams.
Nope. That doesn't get it. Doesn't prove a thing.

Why would I ask this of you now? It's not just because I'm old and a morbid scorpion. Neighbor Dan died a couple of weeks ago, so it's his fault. He lived down in #1. His little old Geo Metro is now parked next door to me at his brother Red's place. Red lives with his gf now, but hasn't cleared out his old place.

The other side of Red is Maria, married with 2 sons, a teen and a young one about 6 or 7. I'll call him Tim.

Yesterday, I was at Tom's talking to Tom & Joe when Tim spoke up. He was sitting over there just on the edge of Maria's property; I hadn't noticed him til he spoke.

Tim said that Red had come by today and was talking to his mom. She spoke to Red about maybe buying Dan's car. Me: "O, that's nice; then you guys would have 2 cars!"

Tim: "Dan's gone someplace else to stay and doesn't need his car anymore." We all agreed that Dan doesn't need the car now.

Later, struck by the fact that Tim doesn't know Dan is dead, I really got to wondering. Why didn't Maria tell him? If he's 7, he surely knows about death by now. Must see it in the movies on TV daily. Was Maria protecting Tim by keeping Death at a distance ... like it's only real on TV, but it's not here in our lives?

And it made me think: How old was I when I learned about Death?

Can't recall for sure. I imagine that as soon as I was becoming verbal, could talk and listen, that must have been when they told me.

It was WWII still going strong; we lived in Alameda, CA near the base. I was 2; Mom dressed me & my older sister up real pretty every Sunday morning & took us to Sunday school. There I learned that Jesus loves the little children, and no doubt, I was told that He had died for Our sins, whatever that means.

I knew that Jesus died a long time ago. At 2, my baby brother had just died too. "What's death? What's dying?" Lotta talk about dying, anyway, with a war going on. I don't recall anyone ever trying to sugar coat it ... just the opposite.

When did I know what it means?

The ant is walking on the kitchen counter. I squash the ant; the ant is dead. Life and consciousness have left the ant body. Same for any other dead animal. Same for people. I remember lots of dead animals from my childhood. Death happens.

Except ... they tell us that people continue, because we have an immortal soul. And when I try to imagine being dead and nothing, I can't do it. The Imaginer imagining cannot erase him/herself.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 3:35 PM

CHRISISALL

I can imagine it. Like being asleep & not dreaming. Only we don't get off so lightly. Just when you're finally at rest, the Cosmic Draft Board gives you another tour of duty. The new assignments vary greatly. I hope to be a well loved cat next time.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 4:46 PM

WISHIMAY

I was 7. Dad found a nest of baby mice in the barn cleaning it out and he stepped outside and threw them in a burn barrel.
"But DAAAAD, that's mean, they're just babies!"

"That's life, hon. Sometimes babies gots ta die. Especially when they carry disease and chew on my stuff."

"Wait, don't people carry disease and chew on things?"

They let me try to raise the next baby mouse, and of course it died too. I think at that point I realized life is just like a switch. Flips on one minute, flips off the next- it ain't fair and it certainly don't make sense most days. I've seen a few dead people. Maybe there is an essence, and then maybe there ain't. Be nice if there was, and then again- that's also sorta creepy. I think if there was a soul and we knew about it then I think this life wouldn't matter. But then again, I'm not so sure it does anyway... Confused yet?

I liken people to computers all the time, and if the main circuit board fries, pffft- no more computing is going on, so all you have left is an expensive doorstop or shooting target. All those out of body experiences?? (which BTW, I had one of those and I think it was the drugs, they make me all manner of swirly) I liken that to those dreams where you run and never go anywhere, or where you are naked in weird places. Most people have had those, don't mean they ACTUALLY happen. I've had some ultra realistic dreams too, I don't think they mean anything more than any other dream.

Sorry, this life is a let-down most days, and I think death will be too.

As for the actuality of death? I've always thought it would be like a round house ride, as your brain starves of oxygen your legs and arms get heavy and then you get dizzy and swirl off into nothingness. Ironically, it's my favorite theme park ride

Go figure...

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Monday, May 12, 2014 5:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can imagine it. Like being asleep & not dreaming. Only we don't get off so lightly. Just when you're finally at rest, the Cosmic Draft Board gives you another tour of duty. The new assignments vary greatly. I hope to be a well loved cat next time.

When I was a tyke, real young, I was intrigued w/ the notion of reincarnation. It fascinated me, the idea of living countless lives, through time, and coming back, over and over, to "get it right", or what ever.

But as I grew older, that set up seemed... wrong. I won't go into specifics here, but I figured out that such a view on the cosmos is bunk. That's not how it works. How can it ? I mean, if we're to believe there's an infinity of multi-verses, why limit yourself to one, and keep coming back ? And what of those who claim to have multiple personalities ? Seems to me the math just doesn't add up right for there to be other ' tours of duty '.

As for death... I'm told that everyone dies, eventually. I dunno. Prolly. After you've seen enough, what's the point of sticking around anyways?

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Monday, May 12, 2014 5:41 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I've seen a few dead people. Maybe there is an essence, and then maybe there ain't.

Well, there IS an essence.
Okay, I'll tell the whole thing in a nutshell: life is a conduit for energy, all life. Trees, bugs, even lowly people. Each life tunes that energy, like a fingerprint. When that life dies, the signature energy drifts back into the whole of the universal energy. Then a new life comes about, and some of that energy fills the conduit. So while there Is reincarnation, it is not of any single being's last existence; can you snatch precisely the same handful of water twice from a stream (there are rare exceptions having to do with overlapping spacial proximity & nanoseconds, but I'll save it-this is the short version)?
'Past life experiences' are bits of that energy's last signature(s) that you recognize on some quasi-conscious level that we cannot quantify yet.

That's basically it. In a nutshell. Or BY a nut- you decide.

On a personal note I had an accident when I was 21 where I came close to leaving. Unconsciousness, anaesthesia, and a minor operation passed. When I woke up the next day, I found myself quite surprised! Like some part of me in unconsciousness was prepared to go. No white light though.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 7:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW

I remember driving along Rt. 40 near Boulder, Colorado when the car started skidding on an ice patch. With no steering possible, the car headed directly towards the guard rail at about 14,000 feet. I looked at my wife and she looked at me, and I took her hand. We both knew we were going to go over the rail and die in seconds. And in that moment there was a sense of peace and acceptance. We didn't die, as the car hit the rail at an angle and just careened along the rail until it stopped. I guess it wasn't our time, or we were lucky. Doesn't matter, because once you face death you're no longer afraid of it.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 8:03 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I guess it wasn't our time, or we were lucky. Doesn't matter, because once you face death you're no longer afraid of it.

Yeah, not so much "Oh God oh God we're all gonna die!" any more & more like "Hmmmm, how can I avoid it if I'm able..."

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Monday, May 12, 2014 9:48 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I guess it wasn't our time, or we were lucky. Doesn't matter, because once you face death you're no longer afraid of it.
Yeah, not so much "Oh God oh God we're all gonna die!" any more & more like "Hmmmm, how can I avoid it if I'm able..."

A lot of things are beyond your ability to avoid. If you commute to work every day on a highway, your life can be snuffed out in a split second and might never see it coming.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:08 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A lot of things are beyond your ability to avoid. If you commute to work every day on a highway, your life can be snuffed out in a split second and might never see it coming.

Yeah, I had another accident in the 90's where I looked up & thought "Fuck, here I go again" before impact. No fear, just curiosity as to the outcome. This one was MY fault, not lookin' enough at the road was all, and that was enough. But that time no blood loss nor real injury, so I was all *huh.* stepping out of the wreck. No unreasonable adrenaline rush.
Later I bought a motorcycle & learned what REAL road awareness was.
No accidents since, bike or car. Many, MANY avoided. Not that moron drivers didn't try to take me out.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:20 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A lot of things are beyond your ability to avoid. If you commute to work every day on a highway, your life can be snuffed out in a split second and might never see it coming.
Yeah, I had another accident in the 90's where I looked up & thought "Fuck, here I go again" before impact. No fear, just curiosity as to the outcome. This one was MY fault, not lookin' enough at the road was all, and that was enough. But that time no blood loss nor real injury, so I was all *huh.* stepping out of the wreck. No unreasonable adrenaline rush.
Later I bought a motorcycle & learned what REAL road awareness was.
No accidents since, bike or car. Many, MANY avoided. Not that moron drivers didn't try to take me out.

That's right ... YOUR life means nothing to the speeders who weave in and out recklessly changing lanes without signaling and cut you off like you're not even a person, all so THEY can get home 5 minutes earlier. That's what commuting was like for me going 25 miles back and forth to Ft. Lauderdale. Now I work part-time from home, so all that insane danger and stress is gone. And believe me, the pay cut is worth every penny.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I knew about death from an early age, but I didn't confront it until my grandfather died. I sensed the loss of my friend ... forever and ever. I didn't accept the idea that as long as I remembered him he was never truly gone, though I remember they tried to comfort me with that.

I watched probably a few hundred people die in the hospital. (let's see -- 2 a week on average, 52 weeks a year, 6 years ... 624 give or take) I watched both parents die. I never sensed a presence that remained.

FWIW I had a dream where I died, then I woke up. It turns out that that dream was just a dream.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:32 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Now I work part-time from home, so all that insane danger and stress is gone. And believe me, the pay cut is worth every penny.

Yes it is.
For me, riding a motorcycle was a great lesson. Now I drive my car and no bad drivers stress me; no potential accidents even warrant my mildest attention I avoid them so effortlessly.
But the "GUYS, the FUCKING light has been GREEN for 30 FUCKING seconds!!!!!" thing still drives me nuts.

Oh well, first world problems...

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:42 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

But the "GUYS, the FUCKING light has been GREEN for 30 FUCKING seconds!!!!!" thing still drives me nuts.

A light tap of the horn? ... or is that done in your part of the verse?

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:43 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I watched both parents die. I never sensed a presence that remained.

My Mom died when I was still young, my memories got put in storage because they hurt too much to revisit until last year or so... she's here, in a bird or a person or tree... nothing goes away forever that was ever here.
Law of Conservation Of Energy.*

*The above is belief, and should in no way be accepted as a statement of fact or reality to be generally accepted without deep philosophical consideration.
Believer discretion is advised.

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Monday, May 12, 2014 10:46 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

A light tap of the horn? ... or is that done in your part of the verse?

It makes them pause LONGER to look in their mirrors and grimace.

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Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:18 AM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

she's here, in a bird or a person or tree... nothing goes away forever that was ever here.

I get that too. I only see Bluejays on days when weird things happen, like they are bringing a message or something. Bluejays are an interesting bird too, they have a call that sounds like it comes from a much larger bird, and when they eat they will swoop down and grab a clawfull then take it back and nibble on it like someone sittin' on the couch with a bag of chips

P.S. What happened to your mom?

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Tuesday, May 13, 2014 2:21 PM

CHRISISALL

Wish, she died of a second bout with breast cancer.

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