Stressed baby? by Wishimay

I wasn't anxious as an infant, and I definitely am now. I think there might be a wide range of causes that can occur both pre- and post-natal.

However, that article is a load of garble, it doesn't really provide any evidence that this touching the face behaviour is a sign of anxiety. The journalistic style is also very poor quality.

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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I wasn't anxious as an infant

How do you know this?

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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:22 PM

Yeah, that article is stupid.

But there is some evidence that stress during pregnancy has a permanent effect on the expression of some genes. Pregnant women who suffered PTSD have babies more likely to react strongly to stress. This makes sense, as a baby born into a highly dangerous world would benefit from a rapid and intense stress response.

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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 12:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I wasn't anxious as an infant

How do you know this?

I was informed so by parents and also by home video.

I was placid and spent most of my time asleep.

It's actually possible I might've and still have a sleep disorder. But still.

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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I was informed so by parents and also by home video.

Hmmm, parents are really good at recording smiley happy moments, not so much screaming panic-y meltdowns...

What about school? Do you think you worried a lot at school?

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 12:05 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This isn't one of those topics but ... sometimes I read an article that's so ambiguous and uninformative I just have to buy the paper. A lot of times that clears up the questions. And generally because they have cites for the background information you can trace back the field to learn why they made some of their basic assumptions in the first place, for example, that babies respond to mommy's stress.

If I were to ask questions I'd want to know how far along the fetus is. The wiring for meaningful movement doesn't get laid down till pretty late. I'd want to know if they found other patterns of activity in either the 'stressed' or 'non-stressed' fetuses. I'd want to know about the previous research and is it reproducible. I'd want to find out if there was supporting research for this observation, and to look to see if it gets reproduced by other labs. Those are the things I'd want to know just off the top of my head.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 12:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:

Hmmm, parents are really good at recording smiley happy moments, not so much screaming panic-y meltdowns...

I don't have smiley happy moments. I mostly slept, until maybe 1 year old when I turned into a spoiled hellbrat.

Quote:
What about school? Do you think you worried a lot at school?

I don't really feel or recognize emotions like the rest of you do. It's more what symptoms are reported back to me.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:32 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, not as simple - no clean slate, but no predestination neither.

Kids have genetic leanings, sure, but as I always say, Genetics loads the gun, Environment pulls the trigger.
That said, even how it manifests can be radically different depending on the child, the Environment and the timing/context.

Of course, I was a straaaange baby, I did NOT want to be picked up, cuddled or touched, I wanted to be left ALONE - wasn't just aversive to caregivers neither, but to all humans (but not the dog, oddly enough).
My mother likened it to a bubble, if you got in my bubble, I got pissed off at you, and would eventually BITE you.
I was a pretty "feral" baby/toddler, and it sure didn't help matters when the whole marital disaster left my mother working long hours away from home and me having to manage the household in her stead at single-digit age, cause that just accellerated the whole feral issue - I was absolutely not a well adjusted or pleasant child, especially as I considered adults to be every bit as dumb, selfish and cruel as other kids, only moreso because they could hide behind their perceived authority when called on it.

-F

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

I considered adults to be every bit as dumb, selfish and cruel as other kids, only moreso because they could hide behind their perceived authority when called on it.

I saw that pretty early on my own self. Never took to that comfortable fantasy of others knowing what's best for you, when they generally can't even see what's best for THEMSELVES.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:08 AM

Is there ever any kid who doesn't think the adults are clueless?

And I say this as one who played the teacher's pet at times.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Is there ever any kid who doesn't think the adults are clueless?

Is there ever any kid that's wrong about that?

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Is there ever any kid that's wrong about that?

Nope.

This is human existence distilled down to it's essence. Everyone is idiot.

And most especially the person who says others are idiots.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 1:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Is there ever any kid who doesn't think the adults are clueless?

And I say this as one who played the teacher's pet at times.

I didn't.

It took me a LONG time to understand that adults are just regular people, slightly older.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 2:11 PM

Quote:
I didn't.

It took me a LONG time to understand that adults are just regular people, slightly older.

Whoa.

Is...

Is this what a normal person upbringing looks like? Where the kid actually respects the older people in their family and as such the other ones in their life too?

I didn't even think that was a thing anymore. o.0

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 2:19 PM

That's rare...

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

I've got it.

You're actually a unicorn.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

I've got it.

You're actually a unicorn.

Closer to the truth, actually. As in, I was an escapist daydreamer and had zero interest in adults, the world in general and the future. It was a defense mechanism against a loving but deeply unstable upbringing.

Even after I became aware of the fact that my parents were deeply flawed, I still considered other adults to be very different, a species of person who had crossed a treshold of such competence that they could care about and deal with the overwhelming details of adult life: stuff on the news, bank accounts, how to make choices. Things I found intimidating and overwhelming.

I outgrew that very slowly.

I was basically the opposite of Frem, even if our daily lives might not have been that different.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:45 PM

Huh. Kinda funny how different people cope with similar stressors.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Huh. Kinda funny how different people cope with similar stressors.

I memorized Star Trek episode dialogue.
Hey- it was better that than sniffing glue!

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:57 PM

I read Star Trek Books (and Stargate, and X Files) so much I doubt anyone remembers my years 13-17...

I may have read the naughty bits over a dozenty times or so. Unfortunately, every time I hit cold sheets, I still think of Spock

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 1:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Huh. Kinda funny how different people cope with similar stressors.

I'm sure the stressors were ultimately very different, as were the positive influences. Also, probably, the loaded guns we were originally born as.

I like to think it's a valuable contrast and makes for interesting discussion.

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 3:02 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2646530/Is-proof-unborn-babi
es-feel-mothers-stress-With-tiny-hand-pulled-chin-incredible-image-appears-baby-womb-thats-ANXIOUS.html

This article is partially wrong. While I'm sure babies in the womb who are subjected to intense long term emotional trauma could have an affect, it is MUCH more likely that these children are already being wired up for genetic anxiety disorders. Like I've said, anxiety disorders run heavily through my family, and I can tell when they are infants if they will be stressed adults. My own kid reacted with fear at EVERYTHING, baths, snow, new foods, ect...

I don't know if it is people's unwillingness to believe a baby could be naturally stressed, since all they do is lie there, but I've had this argument several times with people on the internet. Why is it soo hard to believe the wiring is already there at birth? Is it the whole "babies are newborn angels with a clean slate" thing?

I hope you're wrong about it all Wish. The first time I heard this was with Scientology and that was well before Tom Cruise jumped on a couch and we all knew that the aliens in Battlefield Earth were honest beliefs of the "Church".

At the same time, there's no scientific evidence enough to prove to me that it wasn't true... and I wouldn't believe it if they said it weren't..... or were... whichever the case may be.

I leave it up to a mother's intuition.

The truth is, we're (hopefully) NEVER going to know the answer to this, but talking about it is fascinating to me.

I've managed to make my niece smile and laugh and behave for over an hour while my bro and sis were getting ready to go out, and I was only told afterward that I did so without a pacifier for her. I wouldn't have even thought that it was an "amazing feat" until I realized how much they were lacking in sleep over the last few months while they made a big deal of it after the fact.

At the very most, babies unborn are only influenced by the general mood and tone of the life of the mother and who she's affilliated with, and not at all the words and ideas.

My sig will say it soon, but if you follow this rule the babies will all grow up with clean slates....

Do Good, Be Good. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:04 PM