REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

It's growing, not melting.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 20:02
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Tuesday, September 2, 2014 8:28 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Ha ha. Spot on.

Also that scientists are in a world wide conspiracy to delude us, except when they are proving something that we agree with. And also we want to take medicine produced as a result of their otherwise flawed research.

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Thursday, September 4, 2014 12:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Study links polar vortex chills to melting sea ice
Wed, 09/03/2014 - 9:02am
Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer

Remember the polar vortex, the huge mass of Arctic air that can plunge much of the U.S. into the deep freeze? You might have to get used to it.

A new study says that as the world gets warmer, parts of North America, Europe and Asia could see more frequent and stronger visits of that cold air. Researchers say that's because of shrinking ice in the seas off Russia.

Normally, the polar vortex is penned in the Arctic. But at times it escapes and wanders south, bringing with it a bit of Arctic super chill.

That can happen for several reasons, and the new study suggests that one of them occurs when ice in northern seas shrinks, leaving more water uncovered.

Normally, sea ice keeps heat energy from escaping the ocean and entering the atmosphere. When there's less ice, more energy gets into the atmosphere and weakens the jet stream, the high-altitude river of air that usually keeps Arctic air from wandering south, said study co-author Jin-Ho Yoon of the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Washington. So the cold air escapes instead.

That happened relatively infrequently in the 1990s, but since 2000 it has happened nearly every year, according to a study published Tuesday in the journal Nature Communications. A team of scientists from South Korea and United States found that many such cold outbreaks happened a few months after unusually low sea ice levels in the Barents and Kara seas, off Russia.

The study observed historical data and then conducted computer simulations. Both approaches showed the same strong link between shrinking sea ice and cold outbreaks, according to lead author Baek-Min Kim, a research scientist at the Korea Polar Research Institute. A large portion of sea ice melting is driven by man-made climate change from the burning of fossil fuels, Kim wrote in an email.

Sea ice in the Arctic usually hits its low mark in September and that's the crucial time point in terms of this study, said Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado. Levels reached a record low in 2012 and are slightly up this year, but only temporarily, with minimum ice extent still about 40 percent below 1970s levels, he said.

Yoon said that although his study focused on shrinking sea ice, something else was evidently responsible for last year's chilly visit from the polar vortex.

In the past several years, many studies have looked at the accelerated warming in the Arctic and whether it is connected to extreme weather farther south, from heatwaves to Superstorm Sandy. This Arctic-extremes connection is "cutting edge" science that is hotly debated by mainstream climate scientists, Serreze said. Scientists are meeting this week in Seattle to look at the issue even more closely.

Kevin Trenberth, climate analysis chief at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, is skeptical about such connections and said he doesn't agree with Yoon's study. His research points more to the Pacific than the Arctic for changes in the jet stream and polar vortex behavior, and he said Yoon's study puts too much stock in an unusual 2012.

But the study was praised by several other scientists who said it does more than show that sea ice melt affects worldwide weather, but demonstrates how it happens, with a specific mechanism.

Katharine Hayhoe, a Texas Tech climate scientist in Lubbock, said the study "provides important insight into the cascading nature of the effects human activities are having on the planet."




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, September 4, 2014 8:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
In 2 years, the arctic will be free of ice?

FF 2 years, & there's MORE ice. Not less.

THAT is " Crassic ! ".

It's good of you to make a major problem vanish into hot air. I feel very reassured by you that all will turn out well.



The kicker is, there IS no " major problem ".

And ice does not form in 'hot air'.


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Thursday, September 4, 2014 8:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Magons if you haven't already, see the 'The Quantum Theory of Climate Denial thread'.

You're right, there's no orthodoxy to climate change skepticism. They all believe different things, and some like Auraptor hold all of these beliefs in their heads at the same time, and change fluidly between them, e.g. "Climate change is not happening, and humans are not causing it, and the effects are nothing to worry about..."

It's not personal. It's just war.



No one claimed that the climate never changes. It's always changing. That's the whole point. The idea that the world operates in a state of perfect harmony and rarely deviates unless man causes it to do so is where we differ, I guess.

Then, there's this...



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Tuesday, September 9, 2014 5:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's nice, but what of the actual story posted, and the satellite image showing more ice, not less ?


News today: Franklin Expedition ship found because of what? Guess? Wait for it....
They could not search for the lost ship in the location they were scheduled to because there was TOO MUCH ICE. The scientists clearly stated that the MYTH of lessening ice would have allowed them to search in their scheduled location, but instead they had to shift south and FOUND IT!
Canadian meteorological scientists stating the lessening of ice is a MYTH - but who can believe them, they don't have a libtard bias to their facts, nor a political oar in the water.

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Tuesday, September 9, 2014 6:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Everyone knows that CANADIAN meteorological science guys are deep in the pockets of BIG OIL !!

EVERY scientist who denies the TRUTH of global warming does so at the behest of BIG OIL!! It's a well documented FACT!

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Tuesday, September 9, 2014 10:56 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Everyone knows that CANADIAN meteorological science guys are deep in the pockets of BIG OIL !!

EVERY scientist who denies the TRUTH of global warming does so at the behest of BIG OIL!! It's a well documented FACT!

Climate denial can't provide a coherent explanation for the full body of evidence describing what's happening to our climate. They lurch from denying that global warming is happening to blaming the (nonexistent) global warming on some natural cause to claiming that (nonexistent, non-human-caused) global warming doesn't matter because, well, chillax dude!

In contrast, climate scientists present many lines of evidence pointing to a single, coherent conclusion: that global warming is happening, that humans are causing it, and that climate impacts are being felt everywhere.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Everyone knows that CANADIAN meteorological science guys are deep in the pockets of BIG OIL !!



Do you think she will object that BIG SOLAR is given such short shrift in your diatribe? Like that big orange blob in the sky?
Quote:

Quote:


EVERY scientist who denies the TRUTH of global warming does so at the behest of BIG OIL!! It's a well documented FACT!

Climate denial can't provide a coherent explanation for the full body of evidence describing what's happening to our climate. They lurch from denying that global warming is happening to blaming the (nonexistent) global warming on some natural cause to claiming that (nonexistent, non-human-caused) global warming doesn't matter because, well, chillax dude!

In contrast, climate scientists present many lines of evidence pointing to a single, coherent conclusion: that global warming is happening, that humans are causing it, and that climate impacts are being felt everywhere.


Guess not - didn't even warrant a mention is the causes of the solar-system-wide warming of globes, so that must mean farting cows are causing the heating up of planets in the far reaches of our solar system, even on the opposite side of our Sun from us, and all in unison with our global warming.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:07 PM

STORYMARK


Its a hoot how you wingnuts latch onto any bullshit, under-researched concept that you think proves your bias.

Mercury & Venus: Not warming. These being the closest to the sun, would be the most directly effected if the sun were responsible for temperature changes.

Mars: The warming "trend" is based on information from 1977 and 1999, not continuous data. The 1977 data came right after a global dust storm, and the 1999 data right before one. Based on data since 1999 (which is close to continuous), Mars is not undergoing any long term warming.

Jupiter: Jupiter underwent a temperature change due to the merging of several storms temporarily shifting how heat moved through the atmosphere. The poles became colder, the equator warmer, but overall temperature stayed the same. The effect was temporary.

Saturn: Not warming

Uranus: Actually getting colder, due to its seasonal cycle.

Neptune (and its moon Triton): Both are moving into the first southern hemisphere summer we've observed - it's actually been spring (and fall in the north) there since we discovered the planet. Some seasonal warming is expected.

Pluto: Warming, and we don't know why, for sure - but its likely seasonal, as, like Neptune, the seasons on Pluto last far longer than we've been able to track. Plus, simple physics tells us that if the sun's temperature were raised enough to cause the temperature changes on Pluto - the Earth would have already been cooked to a crisp. We are, if you didn't know, a fuckload closer to the sun that Pluto.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-other-planets-solar-sys
tem-intermediate.htm




“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Sep 11, 2014

Winter Storm Warning in Northeast Wyoming

A Winter Storm Warning for the northeast Big Horn Mountains and Sheridan Foothills areas of Wyoming continues into this afternoon. Accumulating wet snow may cause damage to trees and power lines resulting in outages. Sheridan, WY temperatures, in the mid-30's to below freezing today, are forecast to be in the mid-70's early next week. This image was taken by GOES East at 1715Z on September 11, 2014.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:47 PM

STORYMARK


Thank you for once again illustrating your shortsightedness, and deep stupidity for all, on cue.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 9:09 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
'Your ignorance is just as good as AURaptor's knowledge.' -- Isaac Asimov

The inability of climate models to simulate the pause in global warming – which on some measures has been going on since 1995 – has been problematic for climate scientists and has been repeatedly highlighted by climate change skeptics.

Although global temperatures remain close to record highs, they have shown little warming trend over the last 15 years, a phenomenon sometimes referred to as the “early-2000s hiatus”. The hiatus was not predicted by the average conditions simulated by earlier climate models because they were not configured to predict decade-by-decade variations. Not so cleverly it is called decadal climate prediction or decadal forcasting. New jargon for us to learn.

In an update 10 September 2014: If today’s tools for multiyear climate forecasting had been available in the 1990s, they would have revealed that a slowdown in global warming was likely on the way, according to new research.

Progress is being made in decadal climate prediction, in which global models use the observed state of the world’s oceans and their influence on the atmosphere to predict how global climate will evolve over the next few years.

Such decadal forecasts, while still subject to LARGE UNCERTAINTIES, have emerged as a new area of climate science. This has been facilitated by the rapid growth in computing power available to climate scientists, along with the increased sophistication of global models and the availability of higher-quality observations of the climate system, particularly the ocean.

“There are indications from some of the most recent model simulations that the hiatus could end in the next few years, though we need to better quantify the reliability of the forecasts produced with this new technique.
www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/climate-models-si
mulate-global-warming-pause.html

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:23 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for once again illustrating your shortsightedness, and deep stupidity for all, on cue.




Oh right. I forgot how angry some get when you insult their religion. Some just can't help but lash out in juvenile insults and such.


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Friday, September 12, 2014 2:05 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Second

Well, those climate modelers have some 'splainin' to do.

When scientists stopped looking where they thought all the heat should be, and started looking elsewhere - mostly in the North Atlantic, deep oceans, and heat capacity of melting ice - they found all sorts of recently elevated temperatures and/ or indications of excess heat.

So if they think global warming should be slowing down and find that instead it's rapidly advancing - only where they didn't expect it - what does that say about what we should expect when the decadal oscillation starts moving the other way?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, September 12, 2014 11:14 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for once again illustrating your shortsightedness, and deep stupidity for all, on cue.




Oh right. I forgot how angry some get when you insult their religion. Some just can't help but lash out in juvenile insults and such.




And he does it again, proving once more he cannot grasp the difference between science and religion.

rappy - the poster child for the epically stupid bagger brigade.

And its not anger, moron, its pity and remorse for a world that has to live with idiots like yourself.





“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Friday, September 12, 2014 11:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Second

Well, those climate modelers have some 'splainin' to do.

In an ideal world, climate models available now, today, this minute, are enough to justify gigantic expenditures of money to reduce greenhouse gases. But we do not live in that world.

We live in world of the Manhattan project, where an Army General had scientists build math models of the bomb before the bomb was designed. The scientists had to convince the General to spend the money on particular bomb designs.

To build the model, the physicists on the Manhattan project violated the purity of theoretical physics and used math approximations and empirical methods. Oh my god, they were forced by the General to become engineers! The shortcuts they took would have made their papers unpublishable in the professional journals of physics.

The climate scientists are still at the stage where publication in professional journals is the main importance of their work, but they really need to act like the scientists on the Manhattan project. They need to get their math models working very soon, even if their climate models would be unpublishable because it's too much like engineering.

After climate math models predict correctly what has already happened, then the models can be confidently used on the future. If the future looks bad enough, the money will be spent to reduce greenhouse gases. If the math models never get trustworthy, then the world will have to wait for the future to arrive. It will be a surprise party for everyone! I hope to see you there!

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 12, 2014 11:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for once again illustrating your shortsightedness, and deep stupidity for all, on cue.




Oh right. I forgot how angry some get when you insult their religion. Some just can't help but lash out in juvenile insults and such.




And he does it again, proving once more he cannot grasp the difference between science and religion.

rappy - the poster child for the epically stupid bagger brigade.

And its not anger, moron, its pity and remorse for a world that has to live with idiots like yourself.




So much fear & anger...

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Friday, September 12, 2014 11:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
So much fear & anger...

AURaptor's avatar is actor George C Scott, who looks like Leslie Groves, the general in charge of the Manhattan project. Groves put scientists under pressure. Groves wasn't doing blue sky physics. His scientists needed tangible results that they explained to Groves's satisfaction. I am in awe at Groves. AURaptor is channeling the spirit of Groves, but AURaptor is not working as hard as Groves to understand the science.

Sometimes I think AURaptor isn't trying to understand climate science, at all.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 12, 2014 12:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


2nd -

Wow. Connect imaginary dots often?

That was inspired.


Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, September 12, 2014 2:23 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
2nd -

Wow. Connect imaginary dots often?

That was inspired.

More inspiration: Two days ago the CEO of Royal Dutch Shell said that climate skeptics are living in la-la land. – www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/10/ceo-of-royal-dutch
-shell-climate-change-discussion-has-gone-into-la-la-land
/

The Shell CEO said, "But I think the real challenge is not so much how do we accelerate renewables but more about how do we decarbonize the system we have. How do we take coal out and replace it with gas? That's half the CO2 already. How do we fit carbon capture and storage on electricity generation where you can bring the carbon emissions of a third of the energy system down by 30 percent?"

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, September 12, 2014 5:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sep 11, 2014

Winter Storm Warning in Northeast Wyoming

A Winter Storm Warning for the northeast Big Horn Mountains and Sheridan Foothills areas of Wyoming continues into this afternoon. Accumulating wet snow may cause damage to trees and power lines resulting in outages. Sheridan, WY temperatures, in the mid-30's to below freezing today, are forecast to be in the mid-70's early next week. This image was taken by GOES East at 1715Z on September 11, 2014.


Are you trying to imply that Earth is not warming, in collusion with the other planets in our solar system?
That's just crazy talk.

If that was your meaning, pretty sure the other current posters here won't get it.

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Friday, September 12, 2014 7:38 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Two days ago the CEO of Royal Dutch Shell said that climate skeptics are living in la-la land. –


Then I consider myself in good company.


Richard Siegmund Lindzen (born February 8, 1940) is an American atmospheric physicist, known for his work in the dynamics of the middle atmosphere, atmospheric tides and ozone photochemistry. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and books. From 1983[1] until he retired in 2013, he was Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.[2] He was a lead author of Chapter 7, 'Physical Climate Processes and Feedbacks,' of the IPCC Third Assessment Report on climate change. He has criticized the scientific consensus about climate change[3] and what he has called "climate alarmism".[4]


And since when are we suppose to listen to CEOs of BIG OIL anyways ?

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 3:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Is climate science for second-raters?
Dr Richard Lindzen, professor of atmospheric physics at MIT thinks so.


"I've asked very frequently at universities: 'Of the brightest people you know, how many people were studying climate [...or meteorology or oceanography...]?' And the answer is usually 'No one.'"

"You look at the credentials of some of these people [on the IPCC] and you realise that the world doesn't have that many experts, that many 'leading climate scientists'".

"Oh yeah," said Lindzen. "I don't think there's any question that the brightest minds went into physics, math, chemistry…




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 4:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo: They all believe different things, and some like Auraptor hold all of these beliefs in their heads at the same time, and change fluidly between them, e.g. "Climate change is not happening, and humans are not causing it, and the effects are nothing to worry about..."

It's not personal. It's just war.



Never have I claimed the climate never changes. In fact, we know it's ALWAYS changing, which makes the whole issue laughable.

Humans have a minimal impact on the planet's climate. Yeah, some minor input, but so does everything else.

The effects of climate change, which always is happening, ARE nothing to worry about. Because there's nothing we can do to change it.

Pollution? Hells yeah, that's a correctable problem. I'm all in favor of reducing that ,but no one wants to talk about just pollution.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 4:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, rappy - I was wondering about your hero, Lintzen. What argument does he make, what facts does he employ, what logic underpins his proposal?

Because I don't know, even though I've looked, and I bet neither do you.

As far as I can tell your argument is 'an appeal to authority' - this important guy agrees with me so I must be right. And oddly, his seems to be a negative appeal to authority - they're not good enough authorities so they must be wrong. (And his logic circuit seems to be broken on that because - he is just like they. He completely negated any reason of authority as to why we should listen to him. He was funnier than shit.)

So, how about you go find the global warming argument, facts and logic you agree with and explain them to us - mkay?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 6:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I know you don't understand anything you said because you're trying to casually dismiss away Lintzen and his position as some sort of 'appeal to authority ' tripe, when it's anything but.

And it seems when the AGW phony up this 97% crap about how all science agrees w/ their cherished view, anyone who offers up their own " yeah, but these intelligent folks see it another way " , all you can do is spout inanities.

Sorry, I'm not going to waltz the crazy dance w/ you on this one. Or any other one, for that matter.

I see the world through my own eyes. *Others who have their own professional views and skepticism happen to agree w/ me on AGW.

Why you are you so threatened by that ? Ask yourself, and then come back when you have an answer.

Person ( Field )

Richard Lintzen ( Atmospheric Physics )

Roy Spencer ( Meteorology )

Penn Jillette and Raymond Joseph Teller ( skeptics and entertainers )

Michael Crichton ( writer )


It's not any appeal to authority, what so ever. I'm just pointing out to you that an array of very intelligent, involved and topic aware individuals have taken in the story of AGW and simply don't buy it. One does not NEED to be a bible thumping YEC dullard to not fall in line w/ the AGW program. In fact, it probably helps for anyone NOT to be, because only when one honestly looks at the issue w/ out the burden of religious or social dogma, can they see things as they truly are, and not as what some others TELL us to think.


But twist my answer to what ever makes you feel more comfortable. Seems obvious you can't stand it when anyone doesn't fall in line w/ the " official " mantra.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 8:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... you're trying to casually dismiss away Lintzen and his position as some sort of 'appeal to authority ..."

Once again you bail on mustering any sort of thought. It's your position - explain it or not, I don't really care. But your inability to post anything meaningful - again - has given me yet one more reason to lower you even further is my estimation.

BTW - how does it feel to be the prime example of a person so stupid and propagandized that people refer to this type of thing as pulling a rappy?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Idiots who call me stupid don't phase me 1 bit. Honestly, you trying to shame me or insult me into submission or compliance isn't gonna work, but I know you, you'll keep at it.

It's literally all you have. It's what you do.


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Sunday, September 14, 2014 10:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey, I can discuss facts all day long. You OTOH - can't even start. And the fact that it's you - yet again - incapable of dicussing your own position only reflects on you.

Whatever. You just pulled another rappy.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 11:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


You can fear monger a non - existent problem, all day. I get that. I really do.

But I'll leave you to play w/ yourself.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 12:20 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And still - you have no facts, no argument, no logic - you're completely unable to discuss your own position. I get that about you. And the fact that you have to flounce your skirts in a self-important bustle to try to distract from your inabilities - speaks to the total emptiness of your presence here.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 2:11 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


If the math models never get trustworthy, then the world will have to wait for the future to arrive. It will be a surprise party for everyone! I hope to see you there!


Well fortunately for me, as a person who's now old, I probably won't be here. Which is a good thing, if anything even vaguely resembling predictions comes to pass. But you seem young. So you could make it. I'm not sure congratulations are in order though.

As for models - I think the planet's climate is far more complicated and less predictable than mere atomic nuclei. And those models only work if all the important variables have been accounted for. The last time earth had this level of CO2 was roughly 25 M years ago. Even then continents weren't where they are now so some vital factors have changed.

There are some things beyond doubt. CO2 absorbs infrared (heat) at ~4.5 and ~11 um. The more CO2 is in the air the more heat will be retained. More CO2 = more earth heat. It's so reliable and predictable you can calculate how many extra gigajoules of energy have been retained over time just from CO2 concentration alone.

Any other predictions depend on really REALLY having a grip on all the other variables. And that's assuming the planet will enter a state which has been seen before and which therefore is accounted for in your models. I have to say, I smell a lotta if comin offa that.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 6:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And still - you have no facts, no argument, no logic - you're completely unable to discuss your own position. I get that about you. And the fact that you have to flounce your skirts in a self-important bustle to try to distract from your inabilities - speaks to the total emptiness of your presence here.



The idea that you'd wish to honestly and sincerely debate / discuss the issue is laughable.

I'm unwilling to discuss my views WITH YOU, because you have no interest to actually have any discourse. All you want to do is mock, ridicule, insult and demean those who don't agree with YOU.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 10:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Rappy - the definition of a troll: "and I refuse to chase others in a mindless, endless circle of " debate " on the internet. If I 'bitch out' of a discussion, I've said all I'm going to say on the matter, my views have been presented, and there's nothing left to add."




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 10:34 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

I see the world through my own eyes.



Yes, your own deluded, evidence-averse, believe-only-what-you-want-to eyes.

We know.

We ALL know.





“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Monday, September 15, 2014 11:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Love it when 1kiki tries to be clever & fails so entirely.

Delish.


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Monday, September 15, 2014 12:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2756554/Antarctic-sea-i
ce-INCREASING-Big-freeze-breaks-records-scientists-claim-rise-caused-global-warming.html


So, most ice ever ! Since records started .

But hold up.. melting glaciers would make sense as the cause if that water were to refreeze. So, IF the glaciers are melting, what is the cause?

A valid question.

Perhaps ...
" Researchers have long known that volcanoes lurk under the ice of West Antarctica. This is a seismically active region, where East and West Antarctica are rifting apart. In 2013, a team of scientists even found a new volcano beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/06/09/hidden-volcanoes-melt-antarc
tic-glaciers-from-below
/

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Monday, September 15, 2014 1:55 PM

STORYMARK


You idiots latch onto the same thing every year. And the fallacious nature is explained to you each time. And you, in your infinite dumbassery, always ignore it.

The cult of the deluded.



“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Monday, September 15, 2014 4:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


'record ice ' isn't something that happens 'every year', genius.



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Monday, September 15, 2014 5:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


LOL

Leo vs. science: vanishing evidence for climate change

Consider:

According to NASA satellites and all ground-based temperature measurements, global warming ceased in the late 1990s. This when CO2 levels have risen almost 10 percent since 1997. The post-1997 CO2 emissions represent an astonishing 30 percent of all human-related emissions since the Industrial Revolution began. That we’ve seen no warming contradicts all CO2-based climate models upon which global-warming concerns are founded.

Rates of sea-level rise remain small and are even slowing, over recent decades averaging about 1 millimeter per year as measured by tide gauges and 2 to 3 mm/year as inferred from “adjusted” satellite data. Again, this is far less than what the alarmists suggested.

Satellites also show that a greater area of Antarctic sea ice exists now than any time since space-based measurements began in 1979. In other words, the ice caps aren’t melting.

A 2012 IPCC report concluded that there has been no significant increase in either the frequency or intensity of extreme weather events in the modern era. The NIPCC 2013 report concluded the same. Yes, Hurricane Sandy was devastating — but it’s not part of any new trend.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/14/leo-v-science-vanishing-evidence-for-clim
ate-change
/

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Monday, September 15, 2014 6:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Thank you for once again illustrating your shortsightedness, and deep stupidity for all, on cue.




Oh right. I forgot how angry some get when you insult their religion. Some just can't help but lash out in juvenile insults and such.




And he does it again, proving once more he cannot grasp the difference between science and religion.


And he does it again, proving once more he cannot grasp the difference between factual science and his quasi pseudo-science religion.

Story - the poster child for the epically stupid bagger brigade.

And its not stupidity, moron, its pity and remorse for a world of us reasonable realists that has to live with idiots like yourself.


“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'Storymark's ignorance is just as good as AURaptor's knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov

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Monday, September 15, 2014 6:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2756554/Antarctic-sea-i
ce-INCREASING-Big-freeze-breaks-records-scientists-claim-rise-caused-global-warming.html


So, most ice ever ! Since records started .

But hold up.. melting glaciers would make sense as the cause if that water were to refreeze. So, IF the glaciers are melting, what is the cause?

A valid question.

Perhaps ...
" Researchers have long known that volcanoes lurk under the ice of West Antarctica. This is a seismically active region, where East and West Antarctica are rifting apart. In 2013, a team of scientists even found a new volcano beneath the West Antarctic Ice Sheet."

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/06/09/hidden-volcanoes-melt-antarc
tic-glaciers-from-below
/


Are you trying to claim that volcanoes are what cause mankind to drive fossil-fuel vehicles?

That's just crazy talk.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 6:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And still - you have no facts, no argument, no logic - you're completely unable to discuss your own position. I get that about you. And the fact that you have to flounce your skirts in a self-important bustle to try to distract from your inabilities - speaks to the total emptiness of your presence here.



The idea that you'd wish to honestly and sincerely debate / discuss the issue is laughable.

I'm unwilling to discuss my views WITH YOU, because you have no interest to actually have any discourse. All you want to do is mock, ridicule, insult and demean those who don't agree with YOU.


I can't quite tell - doth she protest too much? Is her frantic antics derailing her sanity? Was she already stuck in a loop before she got on this subject?
She seems more and more pathetic in attempts to stay relevant.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 6:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No, just that the antarctic glacier melt may have more to do w/ geo-termal activity than 'climate change'.

Folks are so eager to find answers which fit their agenda, they may be blinded to the most obvious.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 8:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I can't quite tell - doth she protest too much?

Because I keep pointing out rappy can't discuss the topic? What's wrong with looking for a TOPICAL post?

As a matter of fact YOUR TOPICAL contributions to the discussion? MIA.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 8:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


... and all GROUND-BASED temperature measurements ...

Well, that leaves out a lot of other temperature measurements (that I mentioned earlier) that show global warming is galloping along quite nicely. I wonder why they didn't mention those measurements? Surely it's not because they want to skew the information.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 9:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


AGWists can't explain why co2 goes up but 18 years yields no global warming.

Kiki, you've got nodda.


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Monday, September 15, 2014 9:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So, little rappy posted that Arctic ice was GROWING. When it was pointed out that over the entire period of measurement Arctic ice has shrunk, not grown, rappy pouted and abandoned ship.

He shifted his debate to Lintzen. Apparently the guy - Lintzen - mistakes daily temperature shifts (that are easily perturbed) for global averages (that are phenomenally difficult to move). So Lintzen makes an argument rappy is perfectly comfortable with: the 'my backyard' one. I see more change every day in MY BACKYARD than is seen in global averages, so what's the problem? Most AUDITORIUMS have high CO2 so what's the problem? These, and other arguments he made are logical fallacies - these two the fallacy of composition.

Lintzen also makes a complete misstatement of fact- he claims the increase in only a few tenths of a degree. In fact, it is 1C, which is 1.8F.


He makes ANOTHER COMPLETE misstatement of fact when he says 'plants are starved for CO2'. I don't know if he's been reading the research over the last 10 years, but that's categorically false according to the research results he SHOULD have been aware of.

When I see logical fallacies being presented as arguments, and gross misstatement of facts, it raises red flags as to the integrity of the person and their position.

The debate quickly derails into the minutia of models in order to answer the question 'why has predicted global warming stalled?'

The problem is this: ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS looking in other places than where people normally look - in the N Atlantic, deep oceans and heat capacity of ice - show vast increases of temperature and latent heat. The problem with the 'debate' is that it's from 2010 - and it's simply too old. Data has passed it by. The global warming he says people "can't" find has been found. That renders his argument moot.

And like any true denier, his denial is multi-layered. It's not there. But even if it was, it isn't that much. And even if it was that much it's not that bad.

But it is there. And it's far greater than he states.

And his attempts to minimize the effects are fallacious. His claims that plants are CO2 starved are just plain wrong. Experiments run in situ raising CO2 levels show plants close their stomata and stop absorbing CO2. And he glosses over ocean acidification ... kind of a huge gap in his argument. Wherever the CO2 has been - plants, air, water, soil - how ever many times it's cycled through those places, - the ultimate CO2 sink is in the oceans. It's there that CO2 is turned into shells, sifts down to the ocean bottom, and through eons becomes rock. It's where CO2 is returned to the geologic repository from whence it came. To breezily gloss over the effects of CO2 on the oceans while simultaneously saying it doesn't matter is an act of academic dishonesty and intellectual cowardice.



So, nope - too out of date, too fallacious, too incomplete.








SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, September 15, 2014 11:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


A whole bunch of convoluted hot air is all Kiki can post . Funny. To deny her cult is to mock her very existence.

With great respect to the show Scrubs...

Kiki is crazy( yeah she is )


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Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Have any facts to dispute my post? No?

So, you can't discuss your own thread. All you have are ad hominems. As always.

OH, and this is post #100! Yay for me! That makes it not a total waste.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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