Processed food IS killing us, pt 2. by Wishimay

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Side article:

DOGS CAN SNIFF OUT PROSTATE CANCER WITH 98% ACCURACY

Its co-founder Dr Claire Guest said the charity's research found a 93 per cent reliability rate when detecting both prostate and bladder cancer.

This has to do specifically with dogs detecting cancer by sniffing urine.

Dogs detecting cancer by sniffing urine is not related to the Runx2 gene.

Glad you figured that out. Welcome to the discussion of this thread.

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Tuesday, April 21, 2015 5:48 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"No need to pretend that various cancers are not related in any way."

So you're right! There IS no need to PRETEND various cancers are not related - because it's true! There are many cancers that AREN'T related!

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, April 21, 2015 5:51 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Wrong, again. Keep trying, tiger.

Adequately researched, carefully documented and logically argued! WELL DONE!

lol

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Friday, April 24, 2015 10:48 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
They said the dogs are able to detect prostate cancer specific volatile organic compounds in the urine but said an important question remains of how a dog would find it in daily practice.

First of all, the dogs are detecting volatile organic compounds VOCs. I know what those are like and how they behave, because we analyze VOCs in the lab, spend a great deal of time assessing their volatility, and have looked at various electronic noses (e-noses) for their detection. Alas, modern technology is still no match for the sensitivity and specificity of the biological nose (human, dog, bear, or otherwise).

But VOCs are NOT proteins. Proteins are NOT volatile. VOCs are smallish compounds that can evaporate out of solution. Proteins are so large they CAN'T evaporate out of solution; that would be like expecting a rock to jump out of a glass of water! Proteins are so large they require specialized analytical equipment. So whatever VOCs the dogs are detecting, they are not detecting the runx2 protein.

Right now, there is no evidence that all cancers share a special compound or process which makes them universally amenable to treatment. I recall the big excitement around thalidomide - that anti-nausea drug which caused a huge cluster of limb defects in the developing fetus. (Babies born with no arms or legs, or flippers instead of limbs etc)

The mechanism for the defect was that thalidomide targets immature blood vessels, and since tumors depend on rapidly-growing blood vessels to feed their runaway development, thalidomide was seen as "the" answer to controlling "all" tumor growth. However, thalidomide proved useful only for cancers originating in blood vessels.

There was also a big hoopla raised when it was found that breast cancers were fueled by estrogen. However, tamoxifen, it turns out, is only successful in treating about half of breast cancers.

There are miracle drugs discovered every year, it seems, that flame out the year after. Runx2 may be just "another" compound which will have specific (but limited) utility in treating cancer.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, April 24, 2015 5:05 PM

I did not say cancers all had the same cause.
Are you saying that when one cancer is treated, it does not return as another cancer, in another area or organ?
Do you know of any cancer which, when treated, has never returned as another cancer, or in another organ?

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Friday, April 24, 2015 10:36 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I don't think ANY cancer "returns as another cancer". You can either have a recurrence of the same cancer in a different place, or an entirely new cancer.

Let me back up a bit and tell you what I think I know about cells and cell division and cancer.

Each and every cell in your body has all of the genes necessary to re-create your entire body. ALL of the genes are present. So, why don't you grow skin on your heart, or liver in your brain, or a foot on your forehead?

That's because not all genes are active at all times. Most of the genes in your adult cells are turned off, so your adult cells can only do a few things. The only time when all of your genes are potentially active is during embryonic development, when an undifferentiated balls of cells is turning into placenta and umbilical cord and proto-baby.

In fact, if you were to take an adult skin cell and grow it in a petri dish ... provide all of nutrients in a perfectly comfortable environment ... it would live and reproduce itself for a few weeks, and they wold die. In fact, MOST adult cells only divide a dozen times or so before hitting the wall and dying.

But biologists know that your cells are turning over all the time. You replace the lining of your digestive system in less than a month, so how does that work? Clearly, it's not your adult cells that are replacing themselves, those would have died off years ago.

Embedded in each organ are scattered cells which are more primitive than the adult cells, they are STEM CELLS, and they are capable of dividing and reproducing many more times than adult cells. Unlike the stem cells in an embryo, they can't turn into ANYthing (they're not "pluripotent") but they CAN provide you with fresh new adult skin or liver or muscle cells for decades.

Cancer behaves similarly to stem cells. Something in their genetic code has been turned back on, and whatever it was that kept them from reproducing has been disabled. In fact, there is a theory that cancers actually grow from adult stem cells gone awry. Some biologists think that it's a far shorter step to go from stem cell to cancer than from adult (inhibited) cell to cancer. That may be the reason why different cancers seem to have different characteristics, depending on the origin of their cells ... brain cancer derived from glial cells is different from breast cancer which has metastacized to the brain.

Now, if you've had cancer and been treated for it, possibly the treatment has done to the cancer cells what antibiotics do to bacteria- killed off the susceptable cells and selected the hardier ones. So possibly a recurrence of cancer would be harder to treat, and amy have somewhat different characteristics than the origianl cancer. But it wouldn't turn prostate cancer into melanoma, because those would originate from different cell lines.

At least, as far as I understand it.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, April 24, 2015 10:56 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I don't think ANY cancer "returns as another cancer".

Cancers can become resistant to treatment. How that happens is a mystery, but DNA replication and division are so sloppy in cancer cells it's thought that additional DNA mix-ups occur. How these resistant cancers are then selected for by treatment seems to happen the same way antibiotic resistance happens with bacteria - the susceptible cells die off, while the resistant ones continue on.

So when the cancer comes back, it's a modified version of the original cancer, but it's not a 'different' cancer.

But it is possible for someone to have two different cancers at the same time, or in succession, and to be cured of one only to succumb to another.

Also, cancers can 'metastasize' which means they travel and create offspring tumors in other areas of the same organ, or nearby tissues, or other distant tissues. So for example, a prostate cancer may create offspring tumors in the same prostate gland without going outside of the anatomical/ biological bounds of that gland - which is called 'in situ' - in place. Or it may erode the prostate capsule and create tumors in nearby tissues. Or it may travel more widely through the body and create tumors in the bone for example.

BTW, Signy, thanks for explaining the difference between a volatile compound and a protein. I just couldn't bring myself to type yet more explanations on the same topic.

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Saturday, April 25, 2015 12:14 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Just as an aside - I find it mind-boggling that 'people' in general know such a small amount of basic information. I don't know what to attribute that to. It's not like people are stupid. It's not like they're uninterested. And it's not like they're too lazy to bother trying to learn.

Is it a failure of the education system - is it unable to present this information in a coherent, understandable way that gives people the tools to think about things in the future? Is it a problem with our media - pandering to the most incoherent explanations and preying on self-interest to boost ratings? Have people become so jaded by those with an agenda that they refuse to listen to any 'authority'? Are the 'scientists' to blame for failing to reach out to the public?

I think of course that those with beliefs they need to maintain will NEVER succumb to mere reality. Facts be damned when they have 'the truth'. And this holds for science and global warming as much as it does for politics and whether or not Obama is Kenyan.

But here is a topic that - presumably - doesn't have an agenda attached to it. It's basic biology with a dash of practical experience with medicine. And - presumably - most people know someone who's had cancer. When the doctor says it's 'in situ', or metastasized, or has reoccurred, or is in remission - do they not explain what that means?

I truly don't understand the basic misconceptions there seem to be.

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Saturday, April 25, 2015 4:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

TPTB have no interest in "the great unwashed" being well-founded in logic and observation, because

1) Knowledgable people aren't swayed by advertizing.
2) Reasonable people aren't swayed by politicians' promises, or by their fear-mongering.
3) Well-grounded people understand that the information coming to them is selected by the intentions/financial interests of the people who pass it on.

Also, in the USA, there is a great disrespect for knowledge, and even the idea of reality. Wasn't it Cheney who said something like "We don't need to understand reality, we make it"? And then there's the famous "Well, that's your reality". Hate to tell everyone this, but there's only reality and it would be a good idea if we made an attempt to understand it!

And unfortunately, doctors and scientists tend to behave like a priesthood. So they fail to explain things in relevant terms, and tend to get annoyed when people ask questions. But science is a METHOD, not a series of facts, and should certainly be able to withstand honest questions!

With all of the financial and authority interests lined up against honest information, it's no wonder we have a scarcity. And all kinds of suppositions spring up in the absence of honest information.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 1:48 PM

An article for JSF,,,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3064103/Brain-scans-rev
eal-happens-body-experience-Event-causes-place-cells-trigger-person-s-built-GPS.html

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Friday, May 1, 2015 2:11 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is awesome! Despite all the events I've had, I've never had an out-of-body experience. It looks like anyone could have one with this set-up. I'd definitely like to try that!

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Friday, May 1, 2015 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
An article for JSF,,,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3064103/Brain-scans-rev
eal-happens-body-experience-Event-causes-place-cells-trigger-person-s-built-GPS.html

That looks to conform with known parameters for hypoxia, remote technical viewing, "psychic" viewing, but the mechanics used are the vision to make the connection, whereas the others find that vision is the distraction.
Doesn't really seem to explain the OBE outside the body's line-of-sight, or listening to their doctors in far away rooms, or visiting places miles or continents away in real time.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 5:31 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

evidence?
cites?

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Friday, May 1, 2015 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Wishi, I know this thread is about the overly processed foods that we eat NOW. But ever since humans learned to grow our own food, we process it. Milling wheat and other grains for flour is processing. Drying foods, canning, freezing, anything we make changes the foundation of the item. Making jam, where we are breaking down the enzymes in the fruit as it cooks. Making wine or any other alcohol. White sugar is a highly processed food item.

Well, DUH. Modern "processed" food resembles nothing like the food of an age past, it takes on a whole new meaning when you add thirty chemicals that most people never came in contact with then and now we chug 'em on down.

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Friday, May 1, 2015 8:55 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

My theory is that even 'normal' ingredients are highly processed.

Let's take corn oil, a cooking staple in many kitchens for the home cook.

Starting with the corn itself, it has been heavily selected so that it only somewhat resembles native corn species. Then it's industrially farmed, with heavy applications of fertilizer and pesticide. As a whole food, all these together combine to create a nutritionally inferior food. Recently By 2012, 88 percent of corn (maize) and 94 percent of soy grown in the United States were genetically modified, according to the US Department of Agriculture.

WIKI does a good job explaining the oil extraction process: Almost all corn oil is expeller pressed, then solvent extracted using hexane or 2-methylpentane (isohexane).[1] The solvent is evaporated from the corn oil, recovered, and re-used. After extraction, the corn oil is then refined by degumming and/or alkali treatment, both of which remove phosphatides. Alkali treatment also neutralizes free fatty acids and removes color (bleaching). Final steps in refining include winterization (the removal of waxes), and deodorization by steam distillation of the oil at 232–260 °C (450–500 °F) under a high vacuum.[1]

Or check out sugar refining, also from WIKI; The first stage is known as affination and involves immersing the sugar crystals in a concentrated syrup that softens and removes the sticky brown coating without dissolving them. The crystals are then separated from the liquor and dissolved in water. The resulting syrup is treated either by a carbonatation or by a phosphatation process. Both involve the precipitation of a fine solid in the syrup and when this is filtered out, many of the impurities are removed at the same time. Removal of colour is achieved by using either a granular activated carbon or an ion-exchange resin. The sugar syrup is concentrated by boiling and then cooled and seeded with sugar crystals, causing the sugar to crystallize out. The liquor is spun off in a centrifuge and the white crystals are dried in hot air and ready to be packaged or used. The surplus liquor is made into refiners' molasses.[50]

Milk production has selected for cows that are such heavy milk producers they are unable to sustain a normal, healthy metabolism without constant medication and supplementation. This doesn't address the artificial diet, antibiotic and growth hormone use, and other well-known issues. Then you can expand that entire criticism to egg, beef, pork, chicken and turkey production ... and even farmed fish.

The point is that virtually all our food - even the things we consider basic ingredients for home cooking - is largely the result of highly industrial processes - most of which you don't know about. Think pink slime and racoptine, which were commonly used unknowns for years, even decades.

So, back in the day when people lived in cities, or when serfs owed their produce to the lord and had to subsist on the left-overs - the food was very natural but also very bad. Goethe recorded whole regions of Italy where pale, skeletal serfs suffered from symptoms of pellagra, due to the restricted corn polenta diet. Wheat flour was whole grain, but also infested with insects and mold, and rancid. Plus it was often in short supply. (Hence, 'let them eat cake' became the ultimate expression of callous, entitled cluelessness.)

But now we - supposedly - know better. We understand that good population nutrition shouldn't be reserved for the very wealthy few. We understand the basic concepts of good nutrition - fresh whole clean food, heavy on the vegetables and whole grains, and light on the processed and refined foods. We know how to do things 'better'.

But our system isn't geared to produce 'better'. It's geared to produce 'most profitable'. And that involves first and foremost creating large volumes of stable cheap food-like chemicals, that can be industrially processed into appealing, even addictive, food-like material for sale.

'When I was a kid' ALL food was organic, and a lot of it was local. Now, that's a pricey privilege.

BTW I don't blame the small or family farmers. They're just having to compete with agribusiness, and agribusiness is driving the situation.

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Saturday, May 2, 2015 5:06 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I agree that you can never be 100% sure about your food unless you grow it all yourself, but you can take a few steps to detox your kitchen.

Use olive oil instead of others. The best quality you can afford, cold pressed extra virgin.

Buy butter and cheese in blocks, not spreads, not shredded, not in cans or any other weird permeation.

Buy as much of your fruit and veggies fresh from farmers markets, and supplement with any you can grow yourself. There are lots of resources on growing in small spaces.

Buy free range meats and eggs, and see if you can get local. You might even be able to find a farm that provides a source of both.

Minimise buying packets of stuff..sweet things, chips, fast and convenience good. you will be healthier without all this stuff.

Eat simple, fresh ingredients. Buy local/seasonal when you can.

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Thursday, May 7, 2015 7:42 PM

bump

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Saturday, May 9, 2015 3:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't think ANY cancer "returns as another cancer". You can either have a recurrence of the same cancer in a different place, or an entirely new cancer.

...immediately following the cancer which was "cured" or "remitted" or "destroyed" except that ooops, somehow a "new" cancer turned up.
No coincidence here, folks.
Ignore that man behind the curtain.
Listen to the doctors, they don't need to make sense, you will die eventually no matter what. Do exactly what the doctors say, they are never wrong. At least, until they say they were wrong.

What a novel rationalization.
How high must one be to delude themselves into believing that tripe?

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Saturday, May 9, 2015 3:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I don't think ANY cancer "returns as another cancer".

Cancers can become resistant to treatment. How that happens is a mystery, but DNA replication and division are so sloppy in cancer cells it's thought that additional DNA mix-ups occur. How these resistant cancers are then selected for by treatment seems to happen the same way antibiotic resistance happens with bacteria - the susceptible cells die off, while the resistant ones continue on.

So when the cancer comes back, it's a modified version of the original cancer, but it's not a 'different' cancer.

But it is possible for someone to have two different cancers at the same time, or in succession, and to be cured of one only to succumb to another.

Also, cancers can 'metastasize' which means they travel and create offspring tumors in other areas of the same organ, or nearby tissues, or other distant tissues. So for example, a prostate cancer may create offspring tumors in the same prostate gland without going outside of the anatomical/ biological bounds of that gland - which is called 'in situ' - in place. Or it may erode the prostate capsule and create tumors in nearby tissues. Or it may travel more widely through the body and create tumors in the bone for example.

Is this an explanation of how this poster agreed with me?

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Saturday, May 9, 2015 11:32 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Do you know of any cancer which, when treated, has never returned as another cancer, or in another organ?

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Tuesday, May 12, 2015 6:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Do you know of any cancer which, when treated, has never returned as another cancer, or in another organ?

Although you have quoted my post without attribution, I have never heard of any type of cancer which, when treated, has never returned as another cancer, or in another organ.
So it sounds like you are agreeing with me.

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Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:55 PM

Heard of an interesting linky

www.criticalhealthnews.com

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Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:21 AM

A post I found on Daily Mail from Australia...

"Eliminate E202 ( potassium sorbate )& E220 & E221 ( sulphar dioxide & sodium sulphite )Over exposure to sulphites in food may cause an asthmatic attack, or cause gastric irritation. I need to carry an epi-pen, because these chemicals cause anaphylaxis. Since removing these chemicals from my diet, I have ashed weight ( without any exerting exercise ) my IBS has all but disappeared, and my foggy brain has vanished. Chemicals are the killers"

I just wonder how many people don't know.

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Saturday, May 16, 2015 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Heard of an interesting linky

www.criticalhealthnews.com

That site points out that it should be illegal to label anything as MILK that does not come from a mammal. And that all the almond, rice, soy "milks" are bad.

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Saturday, May 16, 2015 6:38 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Do you know of any cancer which, when treated, has never returned as another cancer, or in another organ?

Just preserving the wrongness for posterity, since no cancer EVER comes back as 'another' cancer (laughably wrong on point 1), and brain cancers don't come back in other organs (ignorantly wrong on point 2). Which makes you completely, and yet arrogantly, wrong.

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Thursday, July 2, 2015 6:53 PM

Just wanted to post about ketchup - the real stuff.
Recently heard the bickering about ketchup and the new versions which do not have high fructose corn syrup in them. Started looking for them in the store - cannot find the new French's brand, but finally found 2 which were called something like "simple recipe" or similar.

I still get my lean ground beef - 7% to 9% fat content, still use the George Foreman grill to drain away the grease/fat, still get big fluffy buns, but now with this real ketchup, the hamburgers TASTE ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS!! I was still getting out the lettuce for some leaves, the 1000 Island dressing, the steak sauce (like Heinz 57, not A1), but they are all sitting aside because the real ketchup is just so wonderful.

Anybody else find this out?
Hope this is posted in time for all to try and enjoy during the long weekend. Well worth the search in the stores, for those who buy from the stores.
The real stuff is even a little cheaper than the HFCS junk - why on earth did anybody decide to dilute/contaminate such delicious fare?

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 12:46 AM

Funny you should reply to this this week, we've figured out hubbs has developed a contact allergy (mouth and stomach) to cinnamon.

He's always HATED ketchup (and tomato soups), turns out there's CINNAMON in it. Yep, right where it says "natural flavors".

SO add that to the list of three thousand things we don't eat anymore...

I'll have to look for the all natural ones.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 12:55 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... the real ketchup is just so wonderful. Anybody else find this out?"

I make tomato sauce/ paste - lots of cherry tomatoes, washed, in a blender, some olive oil, cooked down slowly till it's very very thick. It's not ketchup but it's delightfully intensely rich-tart-sweet tomato-flavored. I think it's what ketchup wants to be when it grows up. No slam on ketchup, I like it. But this just tastes so much better, and it's low-cost/ low effort and a more complex, more nutritious result.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 12:15 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I just read an interesting summation of why synthetic foods, processed foods, and supplements are bad for people. The concept is that vitamins and minerals in food are of a different form and concentration than vitamins and minerals in vitamins and supplements. For example, calcium in food is already dissolved and bound with various proteins, ready to be absorbed by your body. Calcium in the form of supplements is a rock: calcium carbonate. Your body doesn't know what to do with it, and there is some evidence that people who ingest more than about 500 mg of calcium as supplement have more calcium deposits in their arteries.

As another example, there is some evidence that soy-based phyto-estrogens prevent breast cancer, so manufacturers hopped right on the bandwagon and started making pills which contained the most common phytoestrogen. However, further research indicates that there are at least FIVE phyto-estrogens in soy, and that the most common one (the one being sold) actually ENCOURAGED breast cancer. Any possible beneficial effect was probably from one of the others. The same finding was made with the infamous beta-carotene study in the late '90s (it's alpha carotene which is protective, beta-carotene encourages cancer growth) which still stands today as an example of what not to do.

We don't KNOW what's in food. They contain vitamins and phytochemicals in combinations which elude us.

So when you have to apply twenty processes to a food to extract one thing (soy protein isolate )... and then you combine it with a couple-of-dozen other equally-artificial extracts into a synthetic food (vitamin E, folate, polyphosphate etc) - the worst examples of which are those meal-bars and meal-drinks - then you wind up with what the manufacturers THINK is a healthy food-substitute ... or at least what they can convince the consumer is a healthy food-substitute ... but which has no place in the human diet.

I believe in variety above all. I use olive oil. And grapeseed oil. And coconut oil. And margarine. I vary our protein between chicken (organic), turkey, pork (organic, when I can get it), beef (ditto), soy (organic tofu or yuba), eggs (organic), and cheese. I serve a green vegetable (asparagus, beet greens, and chard all the way to zucchini) and another color (carrots, tomatoes, purple potatoes, red peppers, beets, sweet potatoes etc) plus one serving of something really low-cal that people can pile on their plates (cauliflower, shiratake noodles, salad etc) and a fruit every day (whatever is in season).

But I still dish out supplements and vitamins, but only in doses that make dietary sense, and only for specific reasons - like fish oil for hubbs and dear daughter because they both hate fish and will never, ever eat it.

JSF

Quote:
Just wanted to post about ketchup - the real stuff.
Recently heard the bickering about ketchup and the new versions which do not have high fructose corn syrup in them. Started looking for them in the store - cannot find the new French's brand, but finally found 2 which were called something like "simple recipe" or similar. I still get my lean ground beef - 7% to 9% fat content, still use the George Foreman grill to drain away the grease/fat, still get big fluffy buns, but now with this real ketchup, the hamburgers TASTE ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS!! I was still getting out the lettuce for some leaves, the 1000 Island dressing, the steak sauce (like Heinz 57, not A1), but they are all sitting aside because the real ketchup is just so wonderful. Anybody else find this out?

Gosh, I wish. I don't like ketchup, I get the organic no fructose kind for the family, but for me it's still bleh

WISH

Quote:
Funny you should reply to this this week, we've figured out hubbs has developed a contact allergy (mouth and stomach) to cinnamon.He's always HATED ketchup (and tomato soups), turns out there's CINNAMON in it. Yep, right where it says "natural flavors".

I think I have contact allergies too ... at times either my tongue is swelling or my soft palate or maybe both. I've eliminated wine, hummus, and other sulfite-preserved foods because they made me wheeze and gave me a stomach ache. But I have to track other things down, apparently.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 6:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Just wanted to post about ketchup - the real stuff.
Recently heard the bickering about ketchup and the new versions which do not have high fructose corn syrup in them. Started looking for them in the store - cannot find the new French's brand, but finally found 2 which were called something like "simple recipe" or similar.

I still get my lean ground beef - 7% to 9% fat content, still use the George Foreman grill to drain away the grease/fat, still get big fluffy buns, but now with this real ketchup, the hamburgers TASTE ABSOLUTELY DELICIOUS!! I was still getting out the lettuce for some leaves, the 1000 Island dressing, the steak sauce (like Heinz 57, not A1), but they are all sitting aside because the real ketchup is just so wonderful.

Anybody else find this out?
Hope this is posted in time for all to try and enjoy during the long weekend. Well worth the search in the stores, for those who buy from the stores.
The real stuff is even a little cheaper than the HFCS junk - why on earth did anybody decide to dilute/contaminate such delicious fare?

One bar I go to lets us bring in food when they aren't serving. I asked them to put the real ketchp in their frindge in case I wanted it again before it was empty, but otherwise they could use it if they wanted.
Months later I was having a burger again and asked if they still had some ketchup, and they did. I mentioned that i was surpised it lasted that long, and they told me they had 6 bottles of it in the fridge - it is the only ketchup they serve anymore. It was delicious.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:05 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

As an aside, I don't think it's just processed food, or Franken-food, or industrialized food that's killing us. I think it's also the commercialized western diet that's killing us, that combines all three hedonic food qualities. And what they are are high sodium, high fat, and high sugar/ carbohydrate. Et voilà, the 'freedom fry' as the avatar.

If you look at the traditional Eskimo diet - high fat and high sodium, the Japanese diet - high sodium and high carbohydrate, and the Irish diet - high fat and high carbohydrate; it looks like any two of the big three are tolerable in terms of health. But when you combine all three together it's a problem. And when you combine that with the American culture of eating, which is to get and eat large quantities, it's a disaster.

It is really killing us? Over half of Californians are currently either diabetic or pre-diabtic. The answer sure looks like yes.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 10:22 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:

I've not looked for it but then I don't like ketchup anyways and eat very little of it. Same thing goes for mustard.

By gobs Brenda, that's just un American.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 10:28 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

I think it's also the commercialized western diet that's killing us, that combines all

It is really killing us? Over half of Californians are currently either diabetic or pre-diabtic. The answer sure looks like yes.

The average life span in Russia is 70.47. Men in the USE average 7 years more and American women on average live to 80. I take our diet. Besides it tastes much better.

Of course if you are a journalist who writes something bad about Putin your life expectancy is much lower.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 10:54 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Japan rank 1 overall 84yrs female 87yrs male 80yrs
France rank 9 overall 82yrs female 85yrs male 76yrs
Ireland rank 20 overall 81yrs female 83yrs male 79yrs
USA rank 34 overall 79yrs female 81yrs male 76yrs

That puts the US on par with Qatar and Nauru, and behind Lebanon and Slovenia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

I take it you don't know anyone who has complications of diabetes or anyone who's died of them? No wonder you can take a conversation about the health of millions of people, and turn it into a statement about how much you hate Putin. And you think it's ok to write off the poor health of over half the population of California.

I'd sure hate to see the hate-filled person you are actually working with actual people.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 11:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

Of course if you are a journalist who writes something bad about Putin your life expectancy is much lower.

Tee hee hee

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 11:50 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Oooh look - the rage-aholic enjoys it when people are nasty to others! Quelle surprise.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 1:57 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Here's a great recipe, tasty, fast and easy:

1 cabbage, sliced thin
2 red bell pepper, cut into approx 1/4" wide slices
hot pepper flakes (optional)
2T fresh ginger, minced
five garlic, sliced
2 pkg yuba cut into noodle shapes, or two 8-oz pkg x-firm tofu cut into 1/3" slices and baked with a little soy sauce until firm
1 T roasted sesame oil
1 T flavorless oil, like canola or grapeseed
2 T soy sauce

Heat oil in large pot on med-high heat, add ginger, sautee for two minutes
Add red pepper, sautee another 5 minutes
Add cabbage and yuba noodles (if using yuba), cook stirring frequently until cabbage wilts, about 7 minutes
Add garlic, soy sauce, hot pepper flakes (if desired) and stir
If using tofu, top with tofu slices

Serves about four

This tastes great! When cooking, your kitchen will smell like a wonderful Chinese restaurant.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:02 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Here's another one, I posted it on the GARDEN thread but this is a better place. More complicated but soooo amazingly tasty!

Chicken Tangine?

Long story short, went online, there are a million different versions since the tagine is a clay Moroccan cookpot, not a recipe!

but combined the three versions that I like, tried it out today .... AWESOME!

1 T paprika
1/4 t garlic powder
1/2 t gr cinnamon
1.5 t gr turmeric
1.5 t gr ginger
1/4 t gr cardamom
pinch ground allspice
pinch ground coriander
Mix dry spices

In a heavy pot, brown 2.5 lb chicken thighs (skinned) in 2 T olive oil.
Remove, drain most of the oil.

add
1 large white onion diced
2 large potatoes in 1.5" pieces
and cook for 5 minutes

Add back chicken and
3 T lemon confit*
1 c green olives
1 T fresh ginger grated
3 garlic, chop
2 roma tomatoes
dry spice mix.

Stir, cover and cook over low heat for 45 minutes.

Add
1/2 small head cauliflower, broken into florets
pinch saffron

Stir in and cook until done.
Garnish with 1/4 c cilantro or flat parsley leaves

How to make confit lemon:
Choose organic unwaxed lemons
Scrub and quarter
Layer with a generous sprinkling of salt
Refrigerate for 2 weeks
Use the peel only in recipes

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:41 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, to move forward a bit on the topic - I do think our high salt/ fat/ (carb/ sugar) commercialized diet is killing us in large numbers, if only through diabesity. And our highly industrialized/ synthetic/ processed diet is also killing us through both lack of necessary nutrients as well as the presence of chemicals whose effects are either known to be harmful or inadequately studied. For example, two commonly used surfactants (emulsifiers) in food have been recently associated with leaky gut and increased inflammation, allergies and autoimmune disorders.
But I also think food will be the common link to the soaring rate of autism, now estimated to be 1:68. I can't imagine a more draining issue to hit our society both short-term and long-term. (I'm not even going to try and quantify the amount of misery for both those with autism and their caregivers.) Perhaps it's the neonicotinoids whose historic use rises just before autism rates do. It might be the lack of fiber and/ or the presence of emulsifiers that change the gut bacterial composition and so the balance of neurochemicals. Whatever the specific cause, if our diet is related to autism the way I think it is, it'll be yet another example of how our modern diet is killing us.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:22 AM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Japan rank 1 overall 84yrs female 87yrs male 80yrs
France rank 9 overall 82yrs female 85yrs male 76yrs
Ireland rank 20 overall 81yrs female 83yrs male 79yrs
USA rank 34 overall 79yrs female 81yrs male 76yrs

That puts the US on par with Qatar and Nauru, and behind Lebanon and Slovenia.

I take it you don't know anyone who has complications of diabetes or anyone who's died of them? No wonder you can take a conversation about the health of millions of people, and turn it into a statement about how much you hate Putin. And you think it's ok to write off the poor health of over half the population of California.

I'd sure hate to see the hate-filled person you are actually working with actual people.

1st, Russia ranks 152 on your list.

2nd, It has never been about Putin. It has always been about the relentless attacks against the West perpetrated by you and SIG. Had you been evenhanded, honest in your judgements my replies would have been very different. Instead it was obvious from the beginning by the sources the two of you were referencing, along with the constant negative stories about anything west, that you had an agenda.

You may even make a good point here and there, but your hypocrisy when it comes to holding all to the same standards always leaves you suspect.

I don't like you, either of you

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 10:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What do you know? A tagine recipe that I can eat with some modifications for myself. I would have to drop the lemon and onion and cinnamon. Also the olives but I still think it would taste pretty good. :)

Thanks Sig. I've been wanting to try a tagine recipe for ages but couldn't find anything that didn't contain dried fruits and such.

Hey BRENDA, I hope you find it as tasty as I did!

BTW, we tried - literally- a dozen meds and a few non-prescription or off-the-wall therapies for dear d's intractable seizures/ slipping into dementia before doctor took a flying leap and found something that worked (amantadine, an antiviral often used for its "side effect" of preserving dopamine in the brain).

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:16 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OK, one LAST recipe for now!

Spaghetti and meat sauce. What I do with this one is make the sauce really seasoned, almost like pizza sauce.

2 T olive oil
2 8-oz boxes mushrooms, washed, stem-bottoms trimmed (if necessary) and sliced

1- 1.25 pound ground turkey
1/2 jar low sodium pasta sauce
1.5 t garlic powder
1/4 t fennel
1/2 t dried oregano, or more
1/2 t dried basil, or 1/4 minced fresh basil
2 bags shiratake noodles, spaghetti style, or 1/2 pound noodles your choice, cooked

cook mushrooms in 2 T olive oil in flat pan until water is released and mostly dried, set aside

cook ground turkey in flat pan, crumble, drain fat if necessary
add pasta sauce, garlic, and fennel
cook low heat about 15 minutes
add dried oregano (and dried basil, if using dried basil) and mushrooms
cook another 15 minutes on low heat, or until thick
add fresh basil (if this is what you're using) and cook until basil is wilted and flavor released
toss in shiratake or cooked noodles of your choice

serve hot with sprinkled Parmesan, and salad or steamed green vegetable (broccoli, broccolini, asparagus, yu choi, etc) on the side

My family is EXTREMELY picky about food, and since they like these recipes a lot, I hope you'll like them too!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, March 21, 2016 6:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
As an aside, I don't think it's just processed food, or Franken-food, or industrialized food that's killing us. I think it's also the commercialized western diet that's killing us, that combines all three hedonic food qualities. And what they are are high sodium, high fat, and high sugar/ carbohydrate. Et voilà, the 'freedom fry' as the avatar.

If you look at the traditional Eskimo diet - high fat and high sodium, the Japanese diet - high sodium and high carbohydrate, and the Irish diet - high fat and high carbohydrate; it looks like any two of the big three are tolerable in terms of health. But when you combine all three together it's a problem. And when you combine that with the American culture of eating, which is to get and eat large quantities, it's a disaster.

It is really killing us? Over half of Californians are currently either diabetic or pre-diabtic. The answer sure looks like yes.

Forcing into your mouth fake sugar will give you diabetes, especially sucralose. Plus that and High Fructose Corn Syrup will make you overeat in large quantities.

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Monday, March 21, 2016 7:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OK, one LAST recipe for now!

Spaghetti and meat sauce. What I do with this one is make the sauce really seasoned, almost like pizza sauce.

2 T olive oil
2 8-oz boxes mushrooms, washed, stem-bottoms trimmed (if necessary) and sliced

1- 1.25 pound ground turkey
1/2 jar low sodium pasta sauce
1.5 t garlic powder
1/4 t fennel
1/2 t dried oregano, or more
1/2 t dried basil, or 1/4 minced fresh basil
2 bags shiratake noodles, spaghetti style, or 1/2 pound noodles your choice, cooked

cook mushrooms in 2 T olive oil in flat pan until water is released and mostly dried, set aside

cook ground turkey in flat pan, crumble, drain fat if necessary
add pasta sauce, garlic, and fennel
cook low heat about 15 minutes
add dried oregano (and dried basil, if using dried basil) and mushrooms
cook another 15 minutes on low heat, or until thick
add fresh basil (if this is what you're using) and cook until basil is wilted and flavor released
toss in shiratake or cooked noodles of your choice

serve hot with sprinkled Parmesan, and salad or steamed green vegetable (broccoli, broccolini, asparagus, yu choi, etc) on the side

My family is EXTREMELY picky about food, and since they like these recipes a lot, I hope you'll like them too!

I gotta look at this one more.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2016 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's another one, I posted it on the GARDEN thread but this is a better place. More complicated but soooo amazingly tasty!

Chicken Tangine?

Long story short, went online, there are a million different versions since the tagine is a clay Moroccan cookpot, not a recipe!

but combined the three versions that I like, tried it out today .... AWESOME!

1 T paprika
1/4 t garlic powder
1/2 t gr cinnamon
1.5 t gr turmeric
1.5 t gr ginger
1/4 t gr cardamom
pinch ground allspice
pinch ground coriander
Mix dry spices

In a heavy pot, brown 2.5 lb chicken thighs (skinned) in 2 T olive oil.
Remove, drain most of the oil.

add
1 large white onion diced
2 large potatoes in 1.5" pieces
and cook for 5 minutes

Add back chicken and
3 T lemon confit*
1 c green olives
1 T fresh ginger grated
3 garlic, chop
2 roma tomatoes
dry spice mix.

Stir, cover and cook over low heat for 45 minutes.

Add
1/2 small head cauliflower, broken into florets
pinch saffron

Stir in and cook until done.
Garnish with 1/4 c cilantro or flat parsley leaves

How to make confit lemon:
Choose organic unwaxed lemons
Scrub and quarter
Layer with a generous sprinkling of salt
Refrigerate for 2 weeks
Use the peel only in recipes

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

What do you know? A tagine recipe that I can eat with some modifications for myself. I would have to drop the lemon and onion and cinnamon. Also the olives but I still think it would taste pretty good. :)

Thanks Sig. I've been wanting to try a tagine recipe for ages but couldn't find anything that didn't contain dried fruits and such.

So is this recipe kinda spicy?

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Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:26 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

Chicken Tangine- SIGNY

So is this recipe kinda spicy?-JSF

I would say "seasoned", probably closest to a curry, or an Argentinian-style beef empanada (which overlaps with garlic, onion, cinnamon, olives, paprika, and potato, but also contains beef, cumin, black pepper, and sugar.) But it's not "hot", If you WANT "hot" you can add cayenne, but I prefer "not hot".

Quote:
I would say it could be kinda spicy JSF. But I ususally modify the spice level to suit my own taste.

Hey BRENDA, if you make this, let me know what you thought and what you did. I'm always looking to improve my recipes.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:51 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

'Older' Cooking Oils are Better for Your Health
Mon, 03/07/2016 - 3:06pm

Risk of heart disease and diabetes may be lowered by a diet higher in a lipid found in grapeseed and other oils, but not in olive oil, a new study suggests.

Researchers at The Ohio State University found that men and women with higher linoleic acid levels tended to have less heart-threatening fat nestled between their vital organs, more lean body mass and less inflammation.

And higher linoleic acid levels also meant lower likelihood of insulin resistance, a precursor to diabetes.

This finding could have obvious implications in preventing heart disease and diabetes, but also could be important for older adults because higher lean body mass can contribute to a longer life with more independence, said Ohio State's Martha Belury, a professor of human nutrition who led the research.

But there's a catch. Low-cost cooking oils rich in linoleic acid have been disappearing from grocery shelves, fueled by industry's push for plants that have been modified to produce oils higher in oleic acid./

"Vegetable oils have changed. They're no longer high in linoleic acid," said Belury, an expert in dietary fats and part of Ohio State's Food Innovation Center.

http://www.laboratoryequipment.com/news/2016/03/older-cooking-oils-are
-better-your-health

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Sunday, March 27, 2016 12:35 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I do plan on giving it a try. Probably after Easter. I am going to try and get a small pork tenderloin for my easter. I have a dish that I used to do for my guy and me. I take the pork, season it and put it in a pan with a can of V8 juice, bay leaves, carrots and potatoes. Then whip it into a low and slow oven to let it cook a good portion of the day and by the time I want supper it is done.

Mmmmm.... sounds tasty! I'm going to give it a try. Cooked covered or uncovered?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, March 27, 2016 1:35 PM