REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Janet Napolitano

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:24
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Monday, November 15, 2010 9:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Janet Napolitano Asks for Patience, Cooperation While TSA ‘Touches Your Junk’

In an editorial for USA Today, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano defended new airport security measures, just as pat-downs have come under attack via a viral video of a man refusing to have his “junk” (or his John Pistole, if you will) touched by TSA officers. Napolitano assured travelers that the new Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) units are safe and secure, and described pat-down measures for those who refuse AIT scans. According to Matt Drudge, this means “The Terrorists Have Won!”

To follow up, Napolitano also held a press conference this morning to answer questions about the policies. Video after the jump.

Here’s a clip of the press conference, in which Napolitano underscores much of what’s in her USA Today piece:


http://www.mediaite.com/online/janet-napolitano-asks-for-patience-coop
eration-while-tsa-touches-your-junk
/




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, November 15, 2010 11:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Oh, I get it. I'm only posting this because she's a Democrat. If this were Chertoff, and Bush or some GOP were President, I'd be defending the move as an regrettable but prudent move, blaming the war on terror and bad mouthing certain Muslims.


Seriously, who's totally o.k. with any of this ?


Think, before you post.






" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, November 15, 2010 12:33 PM

RIGHTEOUS9


Matt Drudge uses a 7 year old complaint about our anti-terror policy...just now? He's really on top of it.

I remember when Maher has Napolitono on to talk about this sort of thing, not long after the election.

I didn't like anything she had to say on the issue then either. She is certainly more of the same...a politically safe choice for Obama to cling to the new status quo, so that he couldn't be attacked for being soft or flippant on terror...

his appointments certainly don't represent any of his shining moments.




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Monday, November 15, 2010 12:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I had no idea Napolitano was Catholic. Or a priest.

They ask for your patience and cooperation while they touch your junk, too.

I'm seriously NOT okay with this. What's the message it sends our kids? "Don't let a stranger touch you there - unless he's wearing a uniform, or you're in an airport, or he threatens you."

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Monday, November 15, 2010 1:28 PM

WHOZIT


Janet would love to be frisked by a "Bull Dike" named Spike that kick starts her vibrator.

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Monday, November 15, 2010 9:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Seriously, who's totally o.k. with any of this ?


Looks like nobody but the gropers are, really, and I find it gratifying that finally folk are layin into the "Security Theatre" - sure hell took em long enough.

And party be damned, I hate that bitch as much as I do Pelosi.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:20 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'm seriously NOT okay with this. What's the message it sends our kids? "Don't let a stranger touch you there - unless he's wearing a uniform, or you're in an airport, or he threatens you."

I started a thread with that point not too long ago. What are we teaching our kids? "You need to be molested, because Mommy needs to go on a trip. So please just stand there and take it. It will only be a few minutes."

While you're waiting, you can read this book, ok, honey?:



----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Looks like it's a movement that's picking up support.

Quote:


Wednesday, November 24, 2010 is NATIONAL OPT-OUT DAY!

It's the day ordinary citizens stand up for their rights, stand up for liberty, and protest the federal government's desire to virtually strip us naked or submit to an "enhanced pat down" that touches people's breasts and genitals in an aggressive manner. You should never have to explain to your children, "Remember that no stranger can touch or see your private area, unless it's a government employee, then it's OK."

The goal of National Opt Out Day is to send a message to our lawmakers that we demand change. We have a right to privacy and buying a plane ticket should not mean that we're guilty until proven innocent. This day is needed because many people do not understand what they consent to when choosing to fly.



Full story at

http://www.opednews.com/Diary/Wednesday-November-24-20-by-101115-349.h
tml?show=votes





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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 4:16 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Yesterday, radio talk show hosts Neal Boortz and Mike Gallagher both dedicated a good portion of their shows on this issue.


Neal Boortz, who is a self confessed avionics fanatic, as well as an accomplished pilot himself, is continuing the rant today.

The complete disconnect by the TPTB in D.C., regardless of political party, over what the rest of the country wants or is saying, continues to bewilder and baffle.

Remember what we were told, during the formation of the the TSA - "You don't professionalize, unless you federalize "


This is GOVERNMENT. The very folks some think can save our planet and give us FANTASTIC healthcare.

folks, wake up.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:45 AM

JONGSSTRAW


If you don't want to be felt up, then go through the machine. What's the big deal?





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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 6:17 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If you don't want to be felt up then go through the machine. What's the big deal?

Radiation. And near naked pictures of my kids that would violate child porn laws anywhere else.

Pilots concerned about radiation:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/11/11/pilots.body.scanning/index.ht
ml?hpt=Sbin


Parents concerned about child porn violations:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/04/new-scanners-child-porn
-laws


I just tweeted @cnn and @whitehouse: Mr. President: Would you send Michelle/Sasha/Malia through TSA screening? Naked pics or groping?




----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


And that's the standard ... would Barry want his girls put in that situation? Groped or scanned, for some TSA agent's cheap thrill. Pick one .




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:07 AM

RIGHTEOUS9




More implications of these scans...



Joe Lieberman makes a stand...on the wrong side of the issue as usual.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, my response:
Quote:

would Barry want his girls put in that situation? Groped or scanned, for some TSA agent's cheap thrill
I can't help but wonder of Bush would have been just as quick to defend the tactic.

Second, I have to look at it from the TSA agent's point of view. They are under orders to do it just as we are under requirement to put up with it...does that automatically mean they enjoy it?? I sure as hell wouldn't if I were one, and I'm betting that a good proportion of them (in fact MOST: once you've seen/felt a few thousand people, you REALLY think there's a thrill in it?) hate it as much as we do.

Don't get me wrong; I think it's horrific and wrong, I don't think it does a damned thing for "security" per se and is the equivalent of "when I see someone in Muslim garb when I get on a plane, it makes me nervous". The odds on anyone having anything on their person that could be detected, or that a terrorist would dress in Muslim garb, are equally specious, in my opinion.

This should not be. But to put it on Obama, given Bush was quite happy with the ignonimy of subjecting people to waterboarding, wiretapping, and what happened at places like Abu Ghraib (which wasn't alone, from what's come out, just the only place photos were taken--and I don't believe Bush was unaware of it), I don't think he'd have any more problem with these tactics than he had with the others.

We can't know; I do think it's another case of "be afraid, be very afraid", added to trying to make people feel safer flying to keep profits up. But that anyone ENJOYS it, or that Obama is to blame for it, is stupid in my opinion. Not saying Raptor is stupid, just that it's a stupid comment.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:16 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Well, clearly, it's a choice between being molested or dying.

Cause if you don't feel up your kids or take pictures of them "naked," someone will DIE.

You'll let your kids be filmed naked or molested to keep people from DYING, won't you?

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:22 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Posted by Rappy:

This is GOVERNMENT. The very folks some think can save our planet and give us FANTASTIC healthcare.



The very folks who SOME think can "save" Iraq and give us FANTASTIC security, too.

Funny that so many who were all for wireless wiretaps ("No crimes were committed! No laws were broken!") and the Patriot Act now fall all over themselves at THIS infraction of their liberties.

"I told you so" doesn't quite seem to do it justice...

The modern definition of "socialist" is anyone who's winning an argument against a tea-bagger.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, September 24, 2010
I hate Obama's America. You're damn right about that.


Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.


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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:25 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
But to put it on Obama,

I would have posed the question to anyone in the office of the Presidency. So it is not a personal attack on Obama vs. some other president. It is a question of fairness and the absence of double standards. If he supports the policy, he should subject his family to the same indignities and health risks we have to endure. If he doesn't support it, then we would appreciate his speaking up for the rest of us.

Quote:

But that anyone ENJOYS it, or that Obama is to blame for it, is stupid in my opinion. Not saying Raptor is stupid, just that it's a stupid comment.
You don't think pedophiles and frotteurs and voyeurs are making a beeline for these TSA jobs? Certain jobs attract certain folks. Those who detest it will likely change jobs, to eventually be replaced by those who enjoy it.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I'm only half kidding about the TSAr agents 'liking' the feeling up or peeking the unclothed bodies of passenger, regardless of age or sex....

That's not the point. The entire CONCEPT that we can scan folks like this, instead of profiling, like other countries do, is flat out moronic.

ALL Americans need to stand up and get this either over turned, or force airports to go to private security, and opt out of the Alliance ...err.. Federal intrusions.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:10 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If you don't want to be felt up, then go through the machine. What's the big deal?


The big deal is that *I* own the right to take nude photos of myself, the fucking government does not.

Second, these scanners come up with false positives all the time and you might very well end up with some stranger touching your junk anyway. How in the hell did it suddenly become all right for security people to be touching folks everywhere and even looking into women's panties? (According to a comment here: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/the-full-body-back
lash/#more-3551
)

I'm mad as hell over this. If I could manage it at all, I'd take buses or trains, and never fly again. But I have a few work trips coming up, one of them with students. I will have to get on that plane, so I'll have no choice but to have my privacy violated. Talk about government mandates. To live in this modern world of travel, you have to hand over your body to The Man.

And to say that Bush wouldn't be all for this is ridiculous. Of course he would. He was all about giving rights up out of fear. And Lieberman - absolute BS. As soon as we start believing that we have to give up our rights in order to be safe against something that is statistically insignificant, the terrorist's job is done. Yeah, Osama won all right. And you know who else won? The companies who got millions in govt contracts building these useless, invasive fucking scanners.

I took a flight that stayed within New Zealand a few years ago. I got on the flight with nothing but a quick scan of my carry-on, and I even carried a coffee. The sanity of it all was nearly overwhelming. Anyone who thinks that we don't live in a police state should go visit a foreign country.

Oh, but that would involve getting photographed naked and groped first.



-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:21 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Anyone who thinks that we don't live in a police state should go visit a foreign country.

Yup. It's part of the reason that I do live in a foreign country. A small part, but a part, nonetheless.

I can get on planes here without taking off shoes, while carrying on water for my kids, and going through a normal metal detector (those were the good old days, huh?).



----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:44 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Just read an interesting article on how Israel handles the security question: behavior profiling and lots of bomb-proof glass.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-hig
h-security-little-bother




----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 1:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


CTTS, I'm glad you clarified that. Where do you live? If you mentioned, I forget. As to New Zealand, well, they hven't exactly been the target of much terrorism, have they? Nor are they reminded daily that they ARE the main target...would that it were so for us.

I don't think those who get a kick out of the scanning process would necessarily gravitate toward being a security person. For one, some of them wouldn't make it, since if they're THAT hot on it, they've probably already been arrested at least once. Second, after a few thousand fat or wrinkled or whatever bodies, I think it would wear off. JMHO.

Raptor, I agree completely. It's horrendous and tho' I'm not sure what alternatives there are, one needs to be found.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

You don't think pedophiles and frotteurs and voyeurs are making a beeline for these TSA jobs? Certain jobs attract certain folks. Those who detest it will likely change jobs, to eventually be replaced by those who enjoy it.




Yup, just the same way the priesthood attracts pedophiles. But to be honest, the job of "clown" seems to attract 'em, too. As do the ice cream man and the Boy Scout troop leader gigs...

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
If you don't want to be felt up, then go through the machine. What's the big deal?


The big deal is that *I* own the right to take nude photos of myself, the fucking government does not.

Second, these scanners come up with false positives all the time and you might very well end up with some stranger touching your junk anyway. How in the hell did it suddenly become all right for security people to be touching folks everywhere and even looking into women's panties? (According to a comment here: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/the-full-body-back
lash/#more-3551
)

I'm mad as hell over this. If I could manage it at all, I'd take buses or trains, and never fly again. But I have a few work trips coming up, one of them with students. I will have to get on that plane, so I'll have no choice but to have my privacy violated. Talk about government mandates. To live in this modern world of travel, you have to hand over your body to The Man.

And to say that Bush wouldn't be all for this is ridiculous. Of course he would. He was all about giving rights up out of fear. And Lieberman - absolute BS. As soon as we start believing that we have to give up our rights in order to be safe against something that is statistically insignificant, the terrorist's job is done. Yeah, Osama won all right. And you know who else won? The companies who got millions in govt contracts building these useless, invasive fucking scanners.

I took a flight that stayed within New Zealand a few years ago. I got on the flight with nothing but a quick scan of my carry-on, and I even carried a coffee. The sanity of it all was nearly overwhelming. Anyone who thinks that we don't live in a police state should go visit a foreign country.

Oh, but that would involve getting photographed naked and groped first.



-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left




You win the internet with that post! That was just perfection.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:40 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I don't think those who get a kick out of the scanning process would necessarily gravitate toward being a security person. For one, some of them wouldn't make it, since if they're THAT hot on it, they've probably already been arrested at least once. Second, after a few thousand fat or wrinkled or whatever bodies, I think it would wear off. JMHO.



That's not the point. I don't care if TPTB write a 1000 page document swearing as to the safe, careful use of my image. It's my body, and I have the right to not hand it over when I don't want to. Does that mean I have to live as a hermit and not use my own hard earned money on a plane ticket? Apparently so. Apparently I have no right to live in this modern world and make my own choices about my body.

BTW, I am just as horrified by the complaints about how these security workers are... well, insert classist, elitist statements here. (It certainly isn't you saying this Niki, but comments I've read on other sites.) It's not about distrust of workers. It's about the freedoms that are falling away from us, one at a time. And we're letting it happen.

I think there ought to be a protest day when every traveler strips bare fucking naked before they go into those scanners. Because that's the truth of what it is. Let's just be honest.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:44 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You win the internet with that post!


Woo-hoo! Do I get anything? A chocolate doughnut at least?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:52 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I think there ought to be a protest day when every traveler strips bare fucking naked before they go into those scanners.




Next Wednesday is National Opt Out Day.
http://www.opednews.com/Diary/Wednesday-November-24-20-by-101115-349.h
tml?show=votes


And here's a semi nude airport protest in Germany





----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 2:54 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
As to New Zealand, well, they hven't exactly been the target of much terrorism, have they?



That's why I posted that article on Israeli screening. Now no one can say they are in a low risk situation. :)

I'm in Peru.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 4:08 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Next Wednesday is National Opt Out Day.
http://www.opednews.com/Diary/Wednesday-November-24-20-by-101115-349.h
tml?show=votes


And here's a semi nude airport protest in Germany

Yay! I know about opt out day, but I didn't know about naked protests. There needs to be more.

Seriously, if I wasn't completely dependent on a job I'd lose in 2 seconds for attracting press attention, I'd strip down to make the point. Sometimes, I do miss being an unencumbered college student who could do shit like this...

I guess that's weird? Hey, I've gone clothes-less in the Caribbean for days. It's not the being naked that bothers me as much as the having no choice about it.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, November 16, 2010 5:20 PM

CANTTAKESKY


This is a PDF, so I can't copy and paste. But it details radiation concerns from the faculty of U of California, SF. Very clearly and intelligently stated.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/ucsf-jph
-letter.pdf


----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:30 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by Righteous9:


More implications of these scans...



Joe Lieberman makes a stand...on the wrong side of the issue as usual.



He's a Zionist jew. These are jewish naked body scanners from Israel, owned by Cheroff Group, run by Israeli Mossad director of US Dept of Homeland Security Michael "Son Of The Devil" Chertoff.


Naked body scanners brought to you by SATAN

Jew Adrea Mitchell in that same interview is the Top Secret wife of Sir Alan Greenspan Kosher Knight of the British Empire at Bohemian Grove nudist snuff kiddie porn resort, chairman of the private "Federal" Reserve Bank (who ordered the 9/11 terror massacres as cover for their bank robberies) before his promotion to working directly for the German Nazi queen of England and the kosher Bank of London.


Mr Andrea Mitchell counterfeiting kingpin of planet Earth

BTW, tampons in vaginas look like dynomite in vaginas on TSA naked body scanners...

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:05 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
This is a PDF, so I can't copy and paste. But it details radiation concerns from the faculty of U of California, SF. Very clearly and intelligently stated.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/ucsf-jph
-letter.pdf





When I heard about this new security procedure my only real concern was over the safety of these machines (and child pat downs ). There are 2 different kinds of machines, the nytimes listed them in an article I can't find, but the one most used is back scatter type listed in that pdf, and that thing is very damning. If I flew a lot I would opt out every single time.

As to our civil rights being violated, people who believe that seem just a tad short sighted to me - are we forgetting how we got here?

I think it went something like this:

Last century bombs on planes = metal detectors in airports
then shoe bombs = "take off your shoes"
underwear bomber = x-ray and junk checkers, how else you gonna check? Pretty soon they'll be swallowing bombs like dope mules.

"Terrorists have won!" That implies there's an end to the game. The game never ends, it's more accurate to talk about points. The terrorists scored a trideccazillion points 9/11 - they circled the bases like 50 times. They also encouraged a lot of people who were sitting on the sidelines to get up and play on their side. Didn't we just have a 9/11 commission say that we were too complacent and that we should have taken better steps to prevent that event? If anyone really thinks things should be like they were pre-9/11 I'm afraid you're just repeating our old bad habits of denial, "no one's gonna fly a plane into a building, nah, never happen, you're being paranoid!"

I fly maybe once every 3 years, and when I do I agree completely with John Pistole, head of the TSA:

Mr. Pistole said that while “reasonable people can disagree as to what that proper balance or blend is between privacy and security safety,” he believed that “everybody who gets on a flight wants to be reassured that everybody else around them has been properly screened.” Isn't that what everyone wants?

So what else you got if you don't like this? What's your security solution?

(and if you are of the opinion that these "bombers" were set-up by TPTB so they could sell xray scanners, then we are really and truly screwed and haven't got a chance, welcome to PN Nation).

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:53 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
So what else you got if you don't like this? What's your security solution?

What do the Israelis do? It's not like THEY don't have serious bomb threats. Yet they handle security without health risks and sexual assaults. They don't waste taxpayer money with useless and possibly dangerous technology. The last security breach they had was 8 years ago. Despite our many, many intrusive and annoying procedures, we have one every...what...6 months (pulling that number out of my ass, but whatever it is, it is much less than 8 years).

I posted a link already, but it appears no one actually went to read it. So here it is again.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-hig
h-security-little-bother


Here is another one.
http://securitysolutions.com/news/security_exposing_hostile_intent/

If we were serious about security as opposed to being serious about oppression and obedience, we would revamp our whole system.

----
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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, CTTS, given I often post long quotes, and my posts are long anyway, I think that link deserves to be put up, in case people might read it rather than going to the link. I think it's EXCELLENT!
Quote:

While North America's airports groan under the weight of another sea-change in security protocols, one word keeps popping out of the mouths of experts: Israelification.

That is, how can we make our airports more like Israel's, which deal with far greater terror threat with far less inconvenience.

"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.

"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."

That, in a nutshell is "Israelification" - a system that protects life and limb without annoying you to death.

Fliers urged to opt out of airport security en masse

Despite facing dozens of potential threats each day, the security set-up at Israel's largest hub, Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, has not been breached since 2002, when a passenger mistakenly carried a handgun onto a flight. How do they manage that?

"The first thing you do is to look at who is coming into your airport," said Sela.

The first layer of actual security that greets travellers at Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion International Airport is a roadside check. All drivers are stopped and asked two questions: How are you? Where are you coming from?

"Two benign questions. The questions aren't important. The way people act when they answer them is," Sela said.

Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.

"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"

Once you've parked your car or gotten off your bus, you pass through the second and third security perimeters.

Armed guards outside the terminal are trained to observe passengers as they move toward the doors, again looking for odd behaviour. At Ben Gurion's half-dozen entrances, another layer of security are watching. At this point, some travellers will be randomly taken aside, and their person and their luggage run through a magnometer.

"This is to see that you don't have heavy metals on you or something that looks suspicious," said Sela.

You are now in the terminal. As you approach your airline check-in desk, a trained interviewer takes your passport and ticket. They ask a series of questions: Who packed your luggage? Has it left your side?

"The whole time, they are looking into your eyes — which is very embarrassing. But this is one of the ways they figure out if you are suspicious or not. It takes 20, 25 seconds," said Sela.

Lines are staggered. People are not allowed to bunch up into inviting targets for a bomber who has gotten this far.

At the check-in desk, your luggage is scanned immediately in a purpose-built area. Sela plays devil's advocate — what if you have escaped the attention of the first four layers of security, and now try to pass a bag with a bomb in it?

"I once put this question to Jacques Duchesneau (the former head of the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority): say there is a bag with play-doh in it and two pens stuck in the play-doh. That is 'Bombs 101' to a screener. I asked Ducheneau, 'What would you do?' And he said, 'Evacuate the terminal.' And I said, 'Oh. My. God.'

"Take Pearson. Do you know how many people are in the terminal at all times? Many thousands. Let's say I'm (doing an evacuation) without panic — which will never happen. But let's say this is the case. How long will it take? Nobody thought about it. I said, 'Two days.'"

A screener at Ben-Gurion has a pair of better options.

First, the screening area is surrounded by contoured, blast-proof glass that can contain the detonation of up to 100 kilos of plastic explosive. Only the few dozen people within the screening area need be removed, and only to a point a few metres away.

Second, all the screening areas contain 'bomb boxes'. If a screener spots a suspect bag, he/she is trained to pick it up and place it in the box, which is blast proof. A bomb squad arrives shortly and wheels the box away for further investigation.

"This is a very small simple example of how we can simply stop a problem that would cripple one of your airports," Sela said.

Five security layers down: you now finally arrive at the only one which Ben-Gurion Airport shares with Pearson — the body and hand-luggage check.

"But here it is done completely, absolutely 180 degrees differently than it is done in North America," Sela said.

"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."

That's the process — six layers, four hard, two soft. The goal at Ben-Gurion is to move fliers from the parking lot to the airport lounge in a maximum of 25 minutes.

This doesn't begin to cover the off-site security net that failed so spectacularly in targeting would-be Flight 253 bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab — intelligence. In Israel, Sela said, a coordinated intelligence gathering operation produces a constantly evolving series of threat analyses and vulnerability studies.

"There is absolutely no intelligence and threat analysis done in Canada or the United States," Sela said. "Absolutely none."

But even without the intelligence, Sela maintains, Abdulmutallab would not have gotten past Ben Gurion Airport's behavioural profilers.

So. Eight years after 9/11, why are we still so reactive, so un-Israelified?

Working hard to dampen his outrage, Sela first blames our leaders, and then ourselves.

"We have a saying in Hebrew that it's much easier to look for a lost key under the light, than to look for the key where you actually lost it, because it's dark over there. That's exactly how (North American airport security officials) act," Sela said. "You can easily do what we do. You don't have to replace anything. You have to add just a little bit — technology, training. But you have to completely change the way you go about doing airport security. And that is something that the bureaucrats have a problem with. They are very well enclosed in their own concept."

And rather than fear, he suggests that outrage would be a far more powerful spur to provoking that change.

"Do you know why Israelis are so calm? We have brutal terror attacks on our civilians and still, life in Israel is pretty good. The reason is that people trust their defence forces, their police, their response teams and the security agencies. They know they're doing a good job. You can't say the same thing about Americans and Canadians. They don't trust anybody," Sela said. "But they say, 'So far, so good'. Then if something happens, all hell breaks loose and you've spent eight hours in an airport. Which is ridiculous. Not justifiable

"But, what can you do? Americans and Canadians are nice people and they will do anything because they were told to do so and because they don't know any different."




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 9:57 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Hard to argue with their success rate, and they make a lot of good points, "check baggage, more effort on finding the bad guys first."
There are some things that make it difficult to copy Israel's approach, from the second article:

“I would love to model Logan after Ben Gurion,” Robbins says. “But with 25 million passengers, we can’t talk to everyone. If we tried, it would cause gridlock.”

And that's just Logan.

"Since Robbins' troopers cannot talk to everyone, they have to pick and choose. How they pick and choose is the subject of a Constitutional debate - Racial Profiling Vs. Behavior Pattern Recognition." That's a potential rats nest.

Here's the thing: if people have such little faith in the TSA and their agents now, then why would they suddenly have faith in them to perform these behavior pattern recognition BPR tests? And even with it, it's still just one part of the process at Logan.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:26 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Here's the thing: if people have such little faith in the TSA and their agents now, then why would they suddenly have faith in them to perform these behavior pattern recognition BPR tests? And even with it, it's still just one part of the process at Logan.

Uh.. because they would be different people?

Right now, the only requirements for a TSA Airport Security officer are to be a US citizen, have a GED, have a clean background check, speak English, be able to walk and lift weight, and one year experience in security/x-ray technician fields. This is only a slightly higher standard than the requirement for working at Taco Bell.

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=91534702&JobTitle=Transpo
rtation+Security+Officer+%28TSO%29&q=transportation+security+officer&sort=rv%2c-dtex&cn=&rad_units=miles&brd=3876&pp=50&jbf574=HSBC&vw=b&re=134&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&caller=basic.aspx&ss=0&AVSDM=2010-10-18+12%3a13%3a00


If we used a behavioral profiling system, you would be looking for people with more skills and training them with different skills. I can't imagine that you would trust behavioral profiling to simply any able-bodied high school graduate who can speak English and have one year experience following orders.

The point is, though, it is a whole different mindset--a whole different way of looking at the same problem. Instead of an authoritarian mindset of people-must-do-as-we-say-or-everyone-will-die, it is a mindset of we-cannot-let-terrorism-cripple-our-lives. We will run business as usual, and let security for terrorism interfere as little with it as possible.

If the Israelis wanted to secure Logan, don't you think they would be able to find a way within the core philosophy and practices of their system? Of course they can. And if they can, we can too.

----
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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, good point, Pizmo. I agree. But I also agree with CTTS in that surely there MUST be a better way, and maybe if we asked the Israelis, they could help us ocme up with something. Just a thought...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 10:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important



Hello,

I often wonder about a different world.

What if planes were flying again by 9/13/01?

What if construction on replacement identical towers began on 9/11/02?

What if we still wore shoes at airport screenings after 12/22/01?

What if we didn't attack any countries in 10/07/01?

What if we didn't create the Patriot Act, or the Department of Homeland Security?

What if we didn't X-ray passengers or caress their genitalia?

What if, after the catastrophic loss of life and the destruction of property caused by the Terrorist attacks...

We just yawned and got back to work?

Would America be destroyed now? Did we save it by becoming a hysterical people obsessed with Terrorism? Did all our fears and commotion and wars and reduction of civil liberties culminate in heroically saving America? Are we all heroes?

Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 12:39 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?

It wasn't just negligible benefit. We actually made things worse.

Reinactment:

Oh no there's a leak in this giant dam! Let me just close that by beating it with a sledgehammer...

Wait? What's with all this water? Bring in the wreaking ball!

*gurgle... blurb*

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:32 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ditto Mal4.

It would be a very different world, in my opinion, Anthony. A far better one.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off




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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:25 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
The point is, though, it is a whole different mindset--a whole different way of looking at the same problem. Instead of an authoritarian mindset of people-must-do-as-we-say-or-everyone-will-die, it is a mindset of we-cannot-let-terrorism-cripple-our-lives. We will run business as usual, and let security for terrorism interfere as little with it as possible.



I think citizens demanded that the gov or airlines do something, how could they not? Maybe it wasn't you who demanded it or what they came up with wasn't what you wanted, but it's just regular people trying to plug that darn damn with a cork that sometimes turns into a sledgehammer. Humans, whaddy going to do? They make a mess of just about everything. Seriously, name a single gov program that people like and works... it'd be easy to think that all they do all day long is figure out how to fail. Or maybe it's just not as easy as it sounds on a forum?

Here's something else to consider: do you really think that Mr. Rafi Sela, the guy doing Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport's security is going to tell a reporter exactly what their security is and why it's successful? For all we know Israel has every entrance to the airport scanned with high resolution x-rays and they just aren't telling anyone.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:05 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Humans, whaddy going to do? They make a mess of just about everything.

Sure. But they can also learn from their own mistakes, and from people who've been there. It's not too late convene a panel of security experts and redesign our airport security system--all we need is a commitment to a different philosophy of doing things. If they want, they can try it out at one airport, say Logan. And if passengers are pleased and the security works, expand it to the rest of the country.

Quote:

Here's something else to consider: do you really think that Mr. Rafi Sela, the guy doing Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport's security is going to tell a reporter exactly what their security is and why it's successful? For all we know Israel has every entrance to the airport scanned with high resolution x-rays and they just aren't telling anyone.
It is possible he is lying his ass off. I wouldn't know. It is not parsimonious to ASSUME he is lying unless we have reason to suspect he is, such as inconsistencies in his story. I don't see any such red flags.

Whether he is lying or not telling us the whole truth, there are some reasonable observations we can make.
1) Israeli airport security is pretty damn effective. So whatever they are doing, we could be doing.
2) Israeli airport security is fast, doesn't involve health risks, sexual molestation, or voyeurism that we know of, and is not annoying. So whatever they are doing, we could be doing.

If they are secretly x-raying everyone, then I would say it is working. Let's seriously consider doing that. At least weigh the pros and cons.

BUT I seriously doubt that they have the technology to x-ray people while they are moving and without an imaging surface (x-rays gotta have "film"). It would defy our current understanding of how x-ray technology works.

It is like asking, "How do you know they don't have a time machine that goes into the future and finds out who all the terrorists are, and THAT is how they keep it so secure?" Well, it's possible, I guess. I don't know they don't do that for sure. But it is reasonable to assume they are limited to using real world technology as we know it, like everybody else, OK?


----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:14 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What if planes were flying again by 9/13/01?

What if construction on replacement identical towers began on 9/11/02?

What if we still wore shoes at airport screenings after 12/22/01?

What if we didn't attack any countries in 10/07/01?

What if we didn't create the Patriot Act, or the Department of Homeland Security?

What if we didn't X-ray passengers or caress their genitalia?

What if, after the catastrophic loss of life and the destruction of property caused by the Terrorist attacks...

We just yawned and got back to work?

Would America be destroyed now? Did we save it by becoming a hysterical people obsessed with Terrorism? Did all our fears and commotion and wars and reduction of civil liberties culminate in heroically saving America? Are we all heroes?

Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?


That is one of the most moving and stunning commentaries I have ever read regarding 9/11. You should put that on a blog somewhere. It'll probably go viral.

Bravo, Anthony. YOU'RE my hero. Bravo.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 3:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What if planes were flying again by 9/13/01?

What if construction on replacement identical towers began on 9/11/02?

What if we still wore shoes at airport screenings after 12/22/01?

What if we didn't attack any countries in 10/07/01?

What if we didn't create the Patriot Act, or the Department of Homeland Security?

What if we didn't X-ray passengers or caress their genitalia?

What if, after the catastrophic loss of life and the destruction of property caused by the Terrorist attacks...

We just yawned and got back to work?

Would America be destroyed now? Did we save it by becoming a hysterical people obsessed with Terrorism? Did all our fears and commotion and wars and reduction of civil liberties culminate in heroically saving America? Are we all heroes?

Or is it possible that we did all that stuff for negligible benefit, when all the money, blood, and tangible intangibles are accounted for?


That is one of the most moving and stunning commentaries I have ever read regarding 9/11. You should put that on a blog somewhere. It'll probably go viral.

Bravo, Anthony. YOU'RE my hero. Bravo.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.




Right there with ya, CTS. Anthony's is a voice that's been sorely missed around here, and should be welcomed by ALL sides.

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 5:37 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Napolitano, we've got something for YOUR junk:



The Dildo of Mass Destruction!

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Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:03 PM

CANTTAKESKY


From Michael Roberts, the first one to refuse to be scanned or pat-down, a working link to the video where a 3 year old screamed "Stop touching me!"

http://fedupflyers.org/

He brings up some very good points in his article, I think, including:
Quote:

Watching it again, notice the TSA official’s comment that screeners should “come up with some kind of game” to entice children to be inappropriately touched by strangers. Such deceptive tactics come right out of the child abduction/pedophile handbook, no?


Makes me shudder.

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Thursday, November 18, 2010 8:38 AM

ANTIMASON


why is the government in control of airline security anyways? this is the root of the whole problem! each airline individually should be responsible for its own security.

if X-rays and pat downs are worth the added illusion of safety, choose an airline which accomodates you. if youd rather just get in and get out, take your chances, there should be an airline available to accomodate you. if theres an airline that allows passengers to carry(firearms) on board, and that sounds appealing to you, you should have that option.

this is entirely an issue of free markets and personal choice, and the only solution to this problem. people should be free to shop as they please without being subject to a one-size-fits-all government monopoly. there are a billion different opinions on what is acceptable, so rather then forcing a single standardized version on everyone, allow CHOICE! i cant believe conservatives have missed the ball on this one-this was their chance to emphasize the strengths of the free market and freedom of choice.

during this holiday season, imagine the demand for no hassle airport screening! such an airline would make a killing. because some airlines may have less intrusive or altogether different screening measures, this does not imply that some will be less safe as a consequence. returning the responsibility of the safety of an airlines customers and property is a good thing. who has greater incentive to protect its property and passengers then each individual airline?

and, id be willing to bet that private security companies, in competition with eachother over security contracts, would develope technology and strategies far in advance of what the TSA is enforcing

its fundemental... and its maddening that privatizing security is not part of this whole debate. we've accepted the premise that government decides what the conditions of flight are. its not right. this is just advancement of the police state. then it will be xrays at government buildings, librarys, hospitals.. its the proverbial slippery slope. free markets, freedom of choice, profit motive, mutual cooperation- thats the answer


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Thursday, November 18, 2010 8:50 AM

ANTIMASON


dbl

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Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:03 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by antimason:
its fundemental... and its maddening that privatizing security is not part of this whole debate. we've accepted the premise that government decides what the conditions of flight are.

Good point, antimason. Definitely something to consider.

Airline 1: "We cut costs in security so we can pass those savings, AND conveniences, to YOU. (Waiver of indemnity in event of terrorist attack required before purchase."

Airline 2: "We crawl up everyone's ass, including yours, to look for bombs. But you can't get a higher terrorist-free guarantee anywhere else. Children get a free book, 'My First Cavity Search' with purchase."

I would love to see who gets more business. LOL

----
Arrogant and proud of it.

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Thursday, November 18, 2010 9:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Ant, the thing about that is, it SOUNDS good - let everyone decide for themselves - but that's pretty much how 9/11 happened.

You can let people "take their chances", and that's all fine and good, right up until someone flies a planeload of people into a building full of other people. Did the workers at WTC agree to "take their chances", too?

That will no doubt be characterized by some as a ringing endorsement of the current state of "security theatre", when in fact it's nothing of the kind.

I don't know what "The Answer™" to all this mess is; I only know that molestation ISN'T the answer.

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