REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Kathleen Sebelius won’t waive regulation for girl with five weeks to live: ‘Someone lives and someone dies’

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Friday, June 14, 2013 16:05
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VIEWED: 3751
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Thursday, June 13, 2013 12:40 PM

BYTEMITE


I heard that a lab in London has grown the first batch of in vitro animal safe meat products. They're planning on cooking them all up at a big barbeque celebration except for the prototypes.

It sounds both dreadful AND delicious. A true scientific breakthrough!

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Thursday, June 13, 2013 1:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


some people live, some people die


In a FREE society, there'd not be such rules that prohibit this type of age discrimination.


And this one of those joys of O-Care, where it's up to Sebelius to decide who lived or died, based on HER signature. She, like the Emperors of old , gave the crowd a 'thumbs down' , and sentenced this girl to death.

Were her parents TEA party supporters ? I wonder.



Can you really be as ignorant as you make out?

In your free society with no age restrictions, would adult lungs be shoved into a baby?

Why not let DOCTORS decide, instead of bureaucrats ? Here, the doctors were of the opinion that such a transplant could work.

Your absurd comment of adult lungs being 'shoved into a baby' deserves no response.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 13, 2013 7:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor
Why not let DOCTORS decide, instead of bureaucrats ? Here, the doctors were of the opinion that such a transplant could work.

Your absurd comment of adult lungs being 'shoved into a baby' deserves no response.



YOU were the one who raised the issue of age, which you called discrimination. To you using age as a criteria for transplants amounts to discrimination, despite the fact that adult lungs and pediatric lungs are not the same. That's medical information. So according to your own arguments, a baby should be able to receive an adult lung, even though medically that would be catastrophic.

In the article, I posted, I note that..."
"The Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network sets policies for transplants, working with the nonprofit United Network for Organ Sharing to maintain waiting lists and implement the standards. Under their current policies, those under the age of 12 are considered separately from adults. That means an adult lung will be given to an adult candidate if one exists. Murnaghan is at the top of the list to receive a pediatric lung, but pediatric donors are much more rare."

The Network is made up of medical personnel. So it is doctors who make the decisions which you have argued against, just as it is panels of doctors who make decisions regarding treatment in public health system.

Medical personnel use the principles of triage to determine treatment, particularly when resources are limited. As you are probably unable to understand this concept that 'someone lives and someone else dies' is not about being a heartless monster, but a practical use of resources in heartbreaking situations, I give you the definition of triage.

Quote:

Triage (/'tri????/ (UK English) or /tri?'???/ (US English)) is the process of determining the priority of patients' treatments based on the severity of their condition. This rations patient treatment efficiently when resources are insufficient for all to be treated immediately. The term comes from the French verb trier, meaning to separate, sift or select.[1] Triage may result in determining the order and priority of emergency treatment, the order and priority of emergency transport, or the transport destination for the patient.

Triage may also be used for patients arriving at the emergency department, or telephoning medical advice systems,[2] among others. This article deals with the concept of triage as it occurs in medical emergencies, including the prehospital setting, disasters, and emergency room treatment.

The term Triage may have originated during the Napoleonic Wars from the work of Dominique Jean Larrey. The term was used further during World War I by French doctors treating the battlefield wounded at the aid stations behind the front. Those responsible for the removal of the wounded from a battlefield or their care afterwards would divide the victims into three categories:[3][4]

Those who are likely to live, regardless of what care they receive;
Those who are likely to die, regardless of what care they receive;
Those for whom immediate care might make a positive difference in outcome.



Now I'm with Agentrouka on this one. If the regulations around transplants are unnecessarily rigid or need changing, change them, but allow lobbying by non medical lobby groups and a media circus to create policies around these issues. It just isn't fair.

And I note for the record that you didn't manage more than a sentence response to my question "how would your system work?"


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Friday, June 14, 2013 1:14 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor
Why not let DOCTORS decide, instead of bureaucrats ? Here, the doctors were of the opinion that such a transplant could work.

Your absurd comment of adult lungs being 'shoved into a baby' deserves no response.



YOU were the one who raised the issue of age, which you called discrimination. To you using age as a criteria for transplants amounts to discrimination, despite the fact that adult lungs and pediatric lungs are not the same. That's medical information. So according to your own arguments, a baby should be able to receive an adult lung, even though medically that would be catastrophic.




You're falsely representing my argument, and then conclude with an absurd statement which is 180 degrees from what I actually said.

This was, more than anything, what the DOCTORS said could be done, not the bureaucrats. Had they advised against this, didn't think that the procedure could or should be done, they'd never have performed it in the first place. Had Sebelius had her way, they'd never even been given the chance.

You really have dug yourself into a hole here. Ya might want to put down the shovel.

You're in deep enough already.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


It was your argument, so don't try and get out of it. You said -

"In a FREE society, there'd not be such rules that prohibit this type of age discrimination. "

You see this as age discrimination, you clearly say it, despite it being clearly about the medical viability of transplanting adult lungs into a juevenile - a medical decision that was based on procedures devised by a panel of doctors. So what happened to decisions based on medical evidence, the Repos wanted them overturned by a non medical politican (Sebelias) and the decision was overturned by a non medical judge.

So what if there was a doctor who said it might be okay. Doctors often disagree with one another. Doctors can be political motivated. Doctors can make poor decisions ie Hello Michael Jackson.

So in the end, if it is about needing a review of current policies, then so be it, review the policies, but policies ARE needed.

Still waiting to hear how in RappyFreeWorldTM organ transplants would happen, without policies to oversee who gets allocated what.

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Friday, June 14, 2013 4:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


It was your argument, so don't try and get out of it. You said -

"In a FREE society, there'd not be such rules that prohibit this type of age discrimination. "

You see this as age discrimination, you clearly say it, despite it being clearly about the medical viability of transplanting adult lungs into a juevenile - a medical decision that was based on procedures devised by a panel of doctors. So what happened to decisions based on medical evidence, the Repos wanted them overturned by a non medical politican (Sebelias) and the decision was overturned by a non medical judge.

So what if there was a doctor who said it might be okay. Doctors often disagree with one another. Doctors can be political motivated. Doctors can make poor decisions ie Hello Michael Jackson.

So in the end, if it is about needing a review of current policies, then so be it, review the policies, but policies ARE needed.

Still waiting to hear how in RappyFreeWorldTM organ transplants would happen, without policies to oversee who gets allocated what.

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