Another 'Religion of Peace' moment, brought to you by.....yep, ISLAM! by AURaptor

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

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Ron Paul makes me think the founding fathers would have supported a community center near ground zero.

No wonder the tea parties and the conservatives hate him so much.

Right on, Mike.

Quote:
The ONLY role of government in regards to this Community Center is to get out of its way. It's not the place of government or government officials to impede such a project, or to incite public furor about it. The rights to build are not in question, and the question of rights is government's primary purpose.

I agree, Anthony. I don’t LIKE it, because I think there is more of a useful role government can play, and I would have disagreed with Ron Paul on a number of other things, but I’m willing to compromise on some of them, and it would be an improvement over what we’ve GOT!

I also agree the founding fathers might not have been all that tolerant...even tho’ they came to get away from religious tolerance, I didn’t see a lot of evidence of it in our early history. Nonetheless, I think there’s a strong possibility they’d have viewed it as the COMMUNITY CENTER it’s intended, rather than gotten all head up about a prayer room within a community center!

Shiny, whatever our individual beliefs on abortion, I agree with everything else you said, ESPECIALLY:

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Extremists exist in every religion, since man first walked upright. Muslims, Christians and Roman Catholics do not have the market cornered.

and

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It is man and the thirst for power and control that feeds that extremism.

Mike, you’re right; this issue was decided back in December, and as we keep reminding people, Fox News, Ingrahm and Beck all approved BACK THEN. It’s a non-issue-created-issue by one of the most extreme anti-Islamists around, Geller. Until she got ahold of it, nobody gave a damn.

Anthony:

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Not only that, but had they *wanted* to object, they'd have been forced to find some reason other than the religious affiliation

Damned straight and right on. Imagine the furor that would have resulted if it were opposed as what it WAS, a planned Community Center with a room for prayer, rather than what it’s been made out to be!

Mincing, yes, the scales don’t equate TODAY. But if you want to look at history, they do. Again: we’ve only been here 200 years, so saying “what’s now and what affects us is ALL” is a very short-sighted point of view. Another century, it was/will be another race, religion, nationality, whatever.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:10 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Mike, you’re right; this issue was decided back in December, and as we keep reminding people, Fox News, Ingrahm and Beck all approved BACK THEN. It’s a non-issue-created-issue by one of the most extreme anti-Islamists around, Geller. Until she got ahold of it, nobody gave a damn.

Exactly, NOBODY gave a damn, INCLUDING the locals, who were invited to the council meeting, which was open to the public, and voiced no concerns. In fact, so little concern was raised AT THE LOCAL LEVEL that the approval of the council was unanimous, with not one single "No" vote.

This WAS decided at the local level, by the locals. Now, after the fact (nearly a YEAR after the fact), some small-minded bigots have decided that they don't like what was decided, so they want to get people worked up and call for a fresh vote on what's already been decided.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Do you think all opposition to it is based on people thinking Islam=Terrorists?

I'm also curious about the message this sends to the world... certainly it's many messages depending on what part of the world. Some say it shows our strength and our faith in our constitution and Freedom and The American Way, but how would it play in China? France? Taliban? I wonder how Islamic extremists would view the mosque/C-Center going up there?

If Islam doesn't = terrorist, then what in god's name is the problem with an Islamic Center ANYWHERE? And Pizmo, you may have some terribly eccentric and personal reason for opposing this building, but if you look at Kaneman's "face of the GOP" the reason is clear as summer rain: Islam = terrorist.

I'm sorry, but the grief argument carries no wait in this context. No one's grief gives them the right to hold people hostage or deny people their fundamental rights. The local government, the people of NYC have already signed off on this.

And there is grave, grave danger in fetishizing "grief," enshrining it and turning it into a permanent justification for hatred which is EXACTLY what the neo-cons want.

Why hasn't ANYTHING been built at ground zero, leaving this gaping wound in NYC, festering with all our nation's vengeful madness, instead of allowing the wound to heal?

And the message it sends if we allow them to build the Community Center? I would say anything but letting them go ahead with the building paints us as insane, but that's just how I see it. You wanna control "the message," good luck. In this life, we have to do the right thing, and let the world draw its own conclusions. Why should we continue to measure our own actions by the actions of madmen? Let some cave-dwellers determine public policy?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:20 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

KPO, I agree with some of what you wrote and disagree with some. I definitely agree with the fallacy of trying to balance out the scales and find a “winner”. That’s the perspective I’ve been trying to bring to the discussion.

I view Islam differently, however:

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1) It's political in nature (christianity is much more apolitical)
2) It aims for world conquest (so does christianity, but not in a political way as much)
3) It has a doctrine of holy war (no such doctrine in new testament christianity)

I think Christianity has #3—we had the original Crusades, and if you recall, Bush called it a Crusade more than once. If you want to argue just New Testament, I think THAT is a fallacy; it says that because Christianity “revised” its tenants, that absolves it of previous tenants. Doesn’t work for me. I believe I pointed out a few times in Christian history where they wiped out entire populations, which comes close enough to “crusade” for me.

Also, I don’t see Islam as “political in nature”. While I accept that it has far less secularism at this time, I think Christianity has been quite political in the past, and certainly has it’s political aspects even today. “In nature” is something I think is open to debate.

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People that believe all religions inspire humans to evil to the same extent (including Buddhism?), how do you explain this idea?

I don’t think anyone is saying “to the same extent”. Historically one or the other has done so to a greater or lesser degree; certainly CURRENTLY Islam gets the prize for that, but to me it’s just the same as those scales; taking all of history into account, all religions HAVE inspired humans to evil at one time or another. How that fits on scales I don’t think we can ever determine.

And I don’t think it’s the religion that inspires humans to evil, rather to me it’s those in AUTHORITY in each religion who do so, humans deciding what to accent to gain their own agenda, even if that agenda is subconscious to them and they think they are doing right. Definitely “god on our side” is a big baddie and excuses all kinds of horrible things, but ALL religions, in their purest form, push peace, tolerance and equality.

Cav, I think you gave us a very eloquent thesis on religions and I think theocracy IS the major difficulty both we have in tolerating Muslim theocracies and they have tolerating democracy. I don’t think anyone’s touched on it in that way, and it’s a really good point.

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But our values are being eroded by this continued despicable opposition to it.

Exactly what I’ve been trying to say for a while; the extremists of Islam are WINNING by our intolerance and fear endangering the very foundation of our moral values. The more we fear and hate them, the more we show to the world that who we say we are is not WHAT we are, and we concede to the extremists what they claim about us. They win by default because we failed OURSELVES.

Traveler, beautifully said on the same point:

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We lose our freedom by throwing it away with hate and bigotry. Hate is the religion we need to fight. Some may give it a formal name, but that is just a cover. The god that destroyed the Twin Towers was hate, power, or greed; the Islam faith had nothing to do with it.

How on EARTH do we get the American people to SEE THIS?!\

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:29 AM

For the record, I do not advocate arithmetic and scale-balancing as a method for determining evil, though I do demand that ya'll wish in one hand and shit in the other. This math and weight is, a serviceable metaphor in answer to the worthless proposition that "extremists come from ALL faiths!"

There are extremists of all faiths, yes, and so what? There is no arguing that while Islam has no monopoly on violent extremists, it currently has the best brand. This popular brand of violent extremism is not inconsistent with Islamic theology, or history; it is however, with our happy pluralistic notions of how the world out to work. And that stings.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:41 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Don't forget the Pirates. I don't consider them to be in the same category as 'violent extremists' because they're out to steal stuff. And they're dashing. I saw a movie about it.

So: Islam. The most violent extremists AND the most Pirates.

If I join the local mosque, do you think they'll give me a boat?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:48 AM

You're not dark enough; the salient point about Somalian pirates isn't that they're Muslim, but rather....African.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:55 AM

I mean, people would assume that you were a hostage, even if you had a turban, an eye patch, and a hook for a hand. And they would try to free you, even if you came at them with a cutlass.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:56 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Cripes. I never considered that being from an impovrished region filled with crushing despair and treated with wholesale disregard might contribute to something like Piracy.

So, by joining Islam, I only increase the statistical probability of becoming a terrorist? Bummer.

Is there any religion that increases my statistical probability of Captaining a Pirate ship? I'm willing to convert.

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
This popular brand of violent extremism is not inconsistent with Islamic theology, or history.

Oh, hells yes it is! I mean the history--all three of the "big books" can be twisted any which-a-way to support whatever you're selling, but historically, this brand of Islamism is quite new.

Look, terrorism is a political and economic phenomenon. If people have a baseline faith in their own political power and the economic power to better themselves, and they're not sociopaths, they do not support or participate in terrorism. And when I say "political power" I'm not talking about voting booths, I'm talking about the ability to expect that some foreign entity won't come along and flatten your entire country.

That kind of unequal political power, we simply don't understand in America. Our nation's continent-spanning existence depends on it. Unequal warfare is our stock in trade--so much so that we're shocked, shocked I say, when any war we engage in isn't over in two weeks.

Well, the natives have graduated from bows and arrows to kalashnikovs and IED's. Right now, a whole lot of people in the world, most of 'em Muslim, live in fear that the United States of America just might roll into their countries and take everything away from them. I'm not talking about the cave-dwelling psychopaths or the corrupt government of Iran, I'm talking about the "silent majority" of Muslim people in the Middle East. Jeebus, you look at the way neo-cons have been able to gin up hatred in this country with nothing but a building permit to fuel the fire, how much do you think the Islamist propagandists can get out of two fantastically destructive wars of aggression? Without the last 100 years of Western political dominance and the last 50 years of intensive CIA style puppetmastery and adventurism, the Islamist movement of today would be about as pervasive as Tim McVeighism is: limited to a few psychopaths in a generation.

Oh well.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:05 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Shiny, that was so beautiful, I can only agree with every word. “God on our side” is the most dangerous propaganda and manipulation known to man, and it’s nice to see someone who recognizes the politics of religion in our country, to which others don’t seem to give much weight. As a buddhist, I’m extremely aware of the religiosity of our politics, and it has dismayed me for the past eight years deeply, and continues to do so. I won’t rant on it; you covered it far too well and far to civilly already.

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It is used to enslave and control those who submit without question.

Right on the mark.

And then there comes Raptor, preaching the party line and ignoring everything of all those excellent posts before him:

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Building a mosque on the site of ground zero is wrong. Everyone knows it, at their core.

No, Raptor, few actually “know” it...many, like you, have swallowed the doctrine whole cloth, but those who THINK, those who question the fear and intolerance being spouted currently, know exactly the opposite. They know it isn’t a “mosque” at all, they know Ground Zero isn’t some “holy ground” or there wouldn’t be betting parlors and sex clubs even CLOSER than the proposed COMMUNITY CENTER, and they know it is manipulation, not “right” which is behind this whole non-issue. To make flat statements like that ignores all reality, all perspective, and all common sense.

Man, this is one damned impressive thread. Leaving out the blind followers, I’m reading such eloquent points backed up with such reason and logic and recognition of history and the dangers of religion, I’m in awe of you guys. Byte, you too gave us such a wonderful view of reality.

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who I think did the pushing, and here's a hint, it wasn't their Imams or Ayatollahs or their preachers

You’re absolutely right. Taking out the historical religious figures who stoked their followers for political/power reasons of their OWN (like popes throughout history, good old Henry, etc.), what you have are religions USED by politicians and power mongers to fulfill and agenda and gain power, and push people into acts that, if they were thinking for themselves and sane, they wouldn’t do.

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It's not about the religion for them, not really, it's about rage and hatred for the world and justifications and wanting to be admired or feared and to take what they want.

Very, very well said...I liked the comparison to Columbine; it never occurred to me, but it’s right on. Similar mentality. Sense of powerlessness combined with hatred and fear, and lack of self-control. We have a phrase which has come into popular use: “Acting out”.

Pizmo, I think, again, that it is wrong to compare us to the rest of the world. Do we want to say that because China wouldn’t tolerate this or that, it’s okay that we don’t? Seriously? Remember Tiananmen Square? Or ANYTHING the Taliban believes? Does it matter what the rest of the world thinks of us if we know we are doing the right thing, the thing that embodies what our country is built upon? To me, it doesn’t.

No, Kane, he doesn’t have to go back to the Crusades to find evidence of Christianity’s desire for world domination. He only has to glance at Bush, who called the “war on terror” a “crusade” (and tho’ you won’t admit it, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan had their aspects of Christian conquest). Try our own military, CURRENTLY:

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For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure.

That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.

Frank Bussey, director of Military Ministry at Fort Jackson, has been telling soldiers at Fort Jackson that "government authorities, police and the military = God's Ministers,"

Bussey's teachings from the "God's Basic Training" Bible study guide he authored says US troops have "two primary responsibilities": "to praise those who do right" and "to punish those who do evil - "God's servant, an angel of wrath." Bussey's teachings directed at Fort Jackson soldiers were housed on the Military Ministry at Fort Jackson web site. Late Wednesday, the web site was taken down without explanation. Bussey did not return calls for comment. The web site text, however, can still be viewed in an archived format.

The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.

Excellent piece, Pizmo. I especially liked

Quote:
“How can they compare building a mosque in N.Y. with building whatever in Mecca?” Mr. Tarek wrote. “I thought they viewed themselves better than that country of Saudi Arabia with its many human rights violations, as they love to put it.”

which makes exactly the point I’ve been trying to elucidate; that by comparing such things, we outright SAY we are no better than those we cite as lesser.

Anthony, I think where your final argument fails is, again, government, local or federal, being decided by the majority of the people at any given time. We can go back to “would the majority of people voted for a black church in a white neighborhood?” or “Would the majority of servicemen have allowed Jews to serve in the military?” or “Would the majority of citizens voted to allow Black people to buy homes in their neighborhood” or “Would the majority have voted to allow Jews to marry Christians” and on and on at any particular time in America’s history. Majorities are not always right; government is supposed to abide by what is right FOR EVERYONE, not what the majority (in cases like this, representing something close to a “mob” incited by political propaganda and manipulation). The fervor that has been stoked against this COMMUNITY CENTER does not mean the majority is thinking straight; they are reacting out of emotions, and emotions which have been fired up by lies and propaganda. Should we really be turning over decisions such as this to people CURRENTLY suffering hatred and fear of anything and everything Muslim? I don’t believe so.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:10 AM

Let the Muslims build their Islamist Terror Mosque and Jihadist Recruitment Center right in the center of Ground Zero if they want. In the lobby they can showcase a solid gold statue of Osama Bin Laden laughing and giving the thumbs-up gesture. And then top it off with a 24/7 entertainment deck, complete with 72 virgins dancing around a camel-juice bar in silk pajamas. I'd rather have that than have Katie Couric and her Liberal pals scolding me for being an un-enlightened, fear-mongering intolerant bigot.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
This popular brand of violent extremism is not inconsistent with Islamic theology, or history.
Oh, hells yes it is! I mean the history--all three of the "big books" can be twisted any which-a-way to support whatever you're selling, but historically, this brand of Islamism is quite new.

I admit that I am not a historian. Please distinguish this brand of Islam, which is preoccupied with Holy war and a global Caliphate, from the type of Islam practiced by the Ottomans. Or those who invaded the Indian subcontinent. There are novel twists, no doubt, but nothing especially groundbreaking about killing the infidel and taking his shit because god wants you to.

Also, what of it it if any holy text can be twisted? What matters is the twisting, not the potential.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:13 AM

STORYMARK

Ah, wittle River is getting cranky.... Got nothing but absurd straw men to toss out there.

Sucks when people won't fall in line with your fear and hatred, huh? Poor kid. How sad.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:16 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Anthony, I think where your final argument fails is.."

Hello Niki,

I think my arguments are chronically harmed by my inability to convey faceitiousness.

On the bright side, I think this increases my likelihood of becoming a Pirate.

If I stand up and say, "I'm a Pirate, Arrgh," everyone will believe me.

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:19 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

My wife informs me that since my true intentions are often invisible, I might make a better Ninja than a Pirate.

But I'm not sure what noise you make to represent a Ninja. "Whoosh?"

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:21 AM

Hey Anthony,

I believe the church of the flying spaghetti monster considers pirates to be divine beings and global warming to be directly responsible for their lack of numbers.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Ah, wittle River is getting cranky.... Got nothing but absurd straw men to toss out there.

Sucks when people won't fall in line with your fear and hatred, huh? Poor kid. How sad.

Doesn't suck at all buddy. Actually, feels pretty good knowing that I'm already IN line with the vast majority of Americans on this, 68% I believe. Only 26% think like you do. Now that MUST suck for you. So sorry

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:23 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Let the Muslims build their Islamist Terror Mosque and Jihadist Recruitment Center right in the center of Ground Zero if they want. In the lobby they can showcase a solid gold statue of Osama Bin Laden laughing and giving the thumbs-up gesture. And then top it off with a 24/7 entertainment deck, complete with 72 virgins dancing around a camel-juice bar in silk pajamas."

Hello,

That image is just so full of Win that if they did that, I might go there just to see it.

I also wish that all Islamic Terror Mosques and Jihadist Recruitment Centers had a big neon sign saying, "GET YOUR TERROR HERE! DISCOUNT ON BEHEADINGS! 1/2 OFF!"

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:24 AM

Ninja's are better anyway, pirate magic only works on water.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:26 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Kane, as regarding “the will of the people”, see my above statement. The will of the people at any given time is not necessarily the right thing to do. In this case, it’s not the “will of the people” which is causing the problem, it is the will of the people INFLUENCING the feelings of Americans. It is the will of the people who are seeking power who are fostering hate, fear and intolerance, manipulating the population into visceral feelings they are experiencing RIGHT NOW, as opposed to over the long haul.

Were I one of those planning the COMMUNITY CENTER (IT IS NOT A MOSQUE), you betcha I would resist LIKE HELL being told, in a country which prides itself on equality and law, that I couldn’t build something which I know would benefit people of all faiths in a place where betting parlors and sex clubs are perfectly acceptable. It is the epitome of intolerance and prejudice, and I would fight for my rights like any other citizen.

Quote:
I see Christians as being noble in their desire to spread the greatness of their god.

If you see the historical actions of Christians in “spreading” the word of THEIR god in the ways in which they have as “noble”, I think you need to take the time to read some of the things offered on the history of Christianity, which I doubt you will. Not only that, but the “spreading of that word” RIGHT NOW isn’t very noble—if you bother to read the article I put up about the “Christian” indoctrination of our military.

Oh, my, guys, I’m reading such wonderful, THINKING stuff, it knocks my socks off. I knew this place was filled with people who thought for themselves and could put things in perspective, but this thread makes me so DAMNED proud!

Quote:
In this life, we have to do the right thing, and let the world draw its own conclusions. Why should we continue to measure our own actions by the actions of madmen? Let some cave-dwellers determine public policy?

Wonderful, Cav. So is

Quote:
That kind of unequal political power, we simply don't understand in America. Our nation's continent-spanning existence depends on it. Unequal warfare is our stock in trade--so much so that we're shocked, shocked I say, when any war we engage in isn't over in two weeks.

That one BITES, but “we” don’t want to be reminded of it—gawd, it might make us consider that our actions around the world contributed to 9/11, as some REPUBLICAN politicians have stated in the past!

Quote:
Right now, a whole lot of people in the world, most of 'em Muslim, live in fear that the United States of America just might roll into their countries and take everything away from them.

Oh, heavens, they couldn’t actually THINK that, could they? That we would invade a sovereign nation, depose its leaders, and put our own form of government in power? Nah, we’re the Great and Mighty America, we respect all nations...and all religions!

Ooops, sorry, sliding into cynicism there...

Again, I think this discussion is amazing, and I wish it were being had all across America. I am going to save the whole damned thread, I’m so impressed. If you re-read it, ignoring the various RWA “talking points” which reflect an inability to do more than follow the leader, you will see one of the things that makes me PROUD to be an American! You guys give me hope.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:27 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Ah, wittle River is getting cranky.... Got nothing but absurd straw men to toss out there.

Sucks when people won't fall in line with your fear and hatred, huh? Poor kid. How sad.

Doesn't suck at all buddy. Actually, feels pretty good knowing that I'm already IN line with the vast majority of Americans on this, 68% I believe. Only 26% think like you do. Now that MUST suck for you. So sorry

No, I feel quite content not being a knuckle-dragging moron who's afraid of them scary Muslims. You are a tool, I am honored to be nothing like you.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Let the Muslims build their Islamist Terror Mosque and Jihadist Recruitment Center right in the center of Ground Zero if they want. In the lobby they can showcase a solid gold statue of Osama Bin Laden laughing and giving the thumbs-up gesture. And then top it off with a 24/7 entertainment deck, complete with 72 virgins dancing around a camel-juice bar in silk pajamas."

Hello,

That image is just so full of Win that if they did that, I might go there just to see it.

I also wish that all Islamic Terror Mosques and Jihadist Recruitment Centers had a big neon sign saying, "GET YOUR TERROR HERE! DISCOUNT ON BEHEADINGS! 1/2 OFF!"

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Now you're gettin' it! No need for any pretenses here, right Anthony? Just give 'em what they really want, and then maybe they'll like us.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I admit that I am not a historian. Please distinguish this brand of Islam, which is preoccupied with Holy war and a global Caliphate, from the type of Islam practiced by the Ottomans. Or those who invaded the Indian subcontinent. There are novel twists, no doubt, but nothing especially groundbreaking about killing the infidel and taking his shit because god wants you to.

Also, what of it it if any holy text can be twisted? What matters is the twisting, not the potential.

More mincing, less clodhopping, please. We all have wonderfully colorful and empire-building pasts to brag about, don't we? I thought the past didn't count in this discussion.

The modern Islamists invoke "infidel" and "conversion by the sword" exactly the way Mussolini invoked SPQR and Hitler invoked, oh well, Wagner--but without anything resembling the firepower to back that insanity up--to give the psychopathological hate screed du jour the appearance of a pedigree. Glad to see the Mince is buying right in.

I'm still waiting on that list of dominoes in Islam's master plan to rule the world.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:30 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"You are a tool, I am honored to be nothing like you."

Hello Story,

When you insult someone, the Terrorists win.

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Ah, wittle River is getting cranky.... Got nothing but absurd straw men to toss out there.

Sucks when people won't fall in line with your fear and hatred, huh? Poor kid. How sad.

Doesn't suck at all buddy. Actually, feels pretty good knowing that I'm already IN line with the vast majority of Americans on this, 68% I believe. Only 26% think like you do. Now that MUST suck for you. So sorry

No, I feel quite content not being a knuckle-dragging moron who's afraid of them scary Muslims. You are a tool, I am honored to be nothing like you.

What kind of tool would that be friend, hmmm? Given a choice, I'd like to be a power saw. And by the way, I don't drag my knuckles that much anymore. I've hired a posture coach, and the results are amazin'!

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
I admit that I am not a historian. Please distinguish this brand of Islam, which is preoccupied with Holy war and a global Caliphate, from the type of Islam practiced by the Ottomans. Or those who invaded the Indian subcontinent. There are novel twists, no doubt, but nothing especially groundbreaking about killing the infidel and taking his shit because god wants you to.

Also, what of it it if any holy text can be twisted? What matters is the twisting, not the potential.
More mincing, less clodhopping, please. We all have wonderfully colorful and empire-building pasts to brag about, don't we? I thought the past didn't count in this discussion.

The modern Islamists invoke "infidel" and "conversion by the sword" exactly the way Mussolini invoked SPQR and Hitler invoked, oh well, Wagner--but without anything resembling the firepower to back that insanity up--to give the psychopathological hate screed du jour the appearance of a pedigree. Glad to see the Mince is buying right in.

I'm still waiting on that list of dominoes in Islams master plan to rule the world.

B]

I've never dismissed the past outright, nor argued that the free world is going to fall to Islam, and I am no more buying into hate than I am your argument that Islamic extremism ought to be divorced from Islam. Actually, I don't think you've made that argument, but you've made ascribing words to others seem so fun, I thought I'd try it.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:42 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Now you're gettin' it! No need for any pretenses here, right Anthony?"

Hello,

Indeed.

The U.S. Military and Oil Companies can get a joint slogan like, 'WE WILL F*CK YOU AND TAKE YOUR STUFF.'

The Republicans can hold up signs saying, 'WE LOVE FREEDOM UNTIL IT MAKES US UNCOMFORTABLE.'

The Muslims can hold up signs saying, 'WE DON'T SPEAK UP ENOUGH WHEN PEOPLE MURDER IN THE NAME OF OUR GOD.'

The Catholics can hold up signs saying, 'WE REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN WE WERE JUST LIKE YOU.'

The Democrats can hold up signs saying, 'WE WILL KEEP YOUR FREEDOMS FOR YOU IN A SAFE PLACE.'

No more pretenses for anyone.

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Now you're gettin' it! No need for any pretenses here, right Anthony?"

Hello,

Indeed.

The U.S. Military and Oil Companies can get a joint slogan like, 'WE WILL F*CK YOU AND TAKE YOUR STUFF.'

The Republicans can hold up signs saying, 'WE LOVE FREEDOM UNTIL IT MAKES US UNCOMFORTABLE.'

The Muslims can hold up signs saying, 'WE DON'T SPEAK UP ENOUGH WHEN PEOPLE MURDER IN THE NAME OF OUR GOD.'

The Catholics can hold up signs saying, 'WE REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN WE WERE JUST LIKE YOU.'

The Democrats can hold up signs saying, 'WE WILL KEEP YOUR FREEDOMS FOR YOU IN A SAFE PLACE.'

No more pretenses for anyone.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Oh God, I mean like that's so wonderfully liberating, isn't it dude? I'm in humble awe of your newly supercharged sarcasm...congrats!

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 9:57 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

RL, while I appreciate STRONGLY your efforts to abandon the gutterspeak and personal attacks, I wish it could expand to eliminating the derogatory political over-dramatizations. I’ve stopped calling it FauxNews and Dumbya for the same reasons as snarking, that it doesn’t further the discussion/debate, it only acts as a slightly less offensive trigger to the reader. It’s just a wish, to ASK it would be to put an unfair burden on anyone and I have no right to anyway, I just am jarred now when it is there and seeing how it degrades the points you make. Nothing more.

Mincing, again,

Quote:
Please distinguish this brand of Islam

disregards the historical violence of Christian actions in the name of Christianity, which I offered in several places. THIS brand of Islam is no more violent, and, again, if your read the article I offered regarding the indoctrination of our own military, and bear in mind that we invaded two sovereign states in our recent past, which invasions were CALLED “crusades” by our then-President, which invasions were undertaken “with god on our side”, which invasions included guns carrying Bible verses, you might have a different perspective. All three monotheistic religions have “VIOLENCE on their side”, all three have wiped out populations, destroyed religious symbols, made religions ILLEGAL, raped and pillaged, etc., etc. I thought we were past that one.

Ooops, Anthony, were you being facetious? Damn, you’re good at it...probably because you do so less frequently than others, and often less blatantly. Got me! By the way, I hear the office of Dread Pirate Roberts is often vacant, I think that would be a GREAT one to have! And pirates are classier than ninjas, in my opinion. Sexier, too. They buckle their swash MUCH better!

RL, you might take less pride in being part of the majority if you thought about the fact that the “majority” has often been more akin to a “mob” throughout our history, and that as time went on, they evolved into more tolerance and less rabid hate-mongering. Just a thought.

Anthony, you get the prize for my first giggle of the day. The vision first painted by RL, with your addition, was fun! But when it comes to your statement about Story’s “You are a tool, I am honored to be nothing like you”, I would say “When you insult someone, you demean the validity of your argument”. But then, I’m told I think too much like a lawyer (which is offensive as hell!), so maybe, since it’s all about the Terrorists, you’re more accurate.

As far as “tools” go, I’d rather be a level...if someone didn’t use me, their building would fall down (oooo, I LIKE that one!)

Anthony, I love your last one. I could think up a few too:

Tea Partier sign on their door: NO GOVERNMENT BUT DON’T TOUCH OUR MEDICARE, NOBODY WELCOME WHO IS BLACK, HISPANIC, MUSLIM, ATHEIST, PRO-CHOICE, PRO-EQUALITY, WHO DOESN’T HAVE PAPERS AND THINK LIKE US!

Democrats on their door: WE’LL SPOUT ALL KINDS OF GOOD STUFF, BUT DON’T EXPECT US TO FIGHT FOR IT

Republicans: WE’RE ALL FOR THE CONSTITUTION UNLESS WE’RE NOT

ALL big corporations: REGULATE US AND WE’LL FIND A WAY FOR YOU TO PAY FOR IT ANYWAY

Legislators: WE’RE FOR HIRE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER

Right Wingers: GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES EXCEPT WHERE WE WANT TO CONTROL YOU

And oh, you gotta give the Catholics EVERY SPERM IS PRECIOUS

Ooops, RL tells me you were being sarcastic...I misunderstood.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
RL, while I appreciate STRONGLY your efforts to abandon the gutterspeak and personal attacks, I wish it could expand to eliminating the derogatory political over-dramatizations. I’ve stopped calling it FauxNews and Dumbya for the same reasons as snarking, that it doesn’t further the discussion/debate, it only acts as a slightly less offensive trigger to the reader. It’s just a wish, to ASK it would be to put an unfair burden on anyone and I have no right to anyway, I just am jarred now when it is there and seeing how it degrades the points you make. Nothing more.

Mincing, again,
Quote:
Please distinguish this brand of Islam
disregards the historical violence of Christian actions in the name of Christianity, which I offered in several places. THIS brand of Islam is no more violent, and, again, if your read the article I offered regarding the indoctrination of our own military, and bear in mind that we invaded two sovereign states in our recent past, which invasions were CALLED “crusades” by our then-President, which invasions were undertaken “with god on our side”, which invasions included guns carrying Bible verses, you might have a different perspective. All three monotheistic religions have “VIOLENCE on their side”, all three have wiped out populations, destroyed religious symbols, made religions ILLEGAL, raped and pillaged, etc., etc. I thought we were past that one.

Ooops, Anthony, were you being facetious? Damn, you’re good at it...probably because you do so less frequently than others, and often less blatantly. Got me! By the way, I hear the office of Dread Pirate Roberts is often vacant, I think that would be a GREAT one to have! And pirates are classier than ninjas, in my opinion. Sexier, too. They buckle their swash MUCH better!

RL, you might take less pride in being part of the majority if you thought about the fact that the “majority” has often been more akin to a “mob” throughout our history, and that as time went on, they evolved into more tolerance and less rabid hate-mongering. Just a thought.

Anthony, you get the prize for my first giggle of the day. The vision first painted by RL, with your addition, was fun! But when it comes to your statement about Story’s “You are a tool, I am honored to be nothing like you”, I would say “When you insult someone, you demean the validity of your argument”. But then, I’m told I think too much like a lawyer (which is offensive as hell!), so maybe, since it’s all about the Terrorists, you’re more accurate.

As far as “tools” go, I’d rather be a level...if someone didn’t use me, their building would fall down (oooo, I LIKE that one!)

Anthony, I love your last one. I could think up a few too:

Tea Partier sign on their door: NO GOVERNMENT BUT DON’T TOUCH OUR MEDICARE, NOBODY WELCOME WHO IS BLACK, HISPANIC, MUSLIM, ATHEIST, PRO-CHOICE, PRO-EQUALITY, WHO DOESN’T HAVE PAPERS AND THINK LIKE US!

Democrats on their door: WE’LL SPOUT ALL KINDS OF GOOD STUFF, BUT DON’T EXPECT US TO FIGHT FOR IT

Republicans: WE’RE ALL FOR THE CONSTITUTION UNLESS WE’RE NOT

ALL big corporations: REGULATE US AND WE’LL FIND A WAY FOR YOU TO PAY FOR IT ANYWAY

Legislators: WE’RE FOR HIRE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER

Right Wingers: GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES EXCEPT WHERE WE WANT TO CONTROL YOU

And oh, you gotta give the Catholics EVERY SPERM IS PRECIOUS

Ooops, RL tells me you were being sarcastic...I misunderstood.

Eliminate the "derogatory political over-dramatizations", in addition to the profanity, vulgarity, and personal attacks? What reason to breathe air then? Girl, you're just 'specting too much, pushing too hard:

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:24 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I recently watched 'The Invention of Lying' which was about half as good as it could have been. But I do wonder what people would say if they were utterly incapable of editing themselves, and were forced to speak the pure unvarnished truth.

Probably there's a reason that lying is a survival trait. Some small amount of disingenuousness is necessary to an amicable society. It at least lets us live with ourselves. And maybe if we lie to ourselves long enough about being good people, we'll start to change.

Someone said once, "You are what you pretend to be."

--Anthony

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:27 AM

MALACHITE

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Now you're gettin' it! No need for any pretenses here, right Anthony?"

Hello,

Indeed.

The U.S. Military and Oil Companies can get a joint slogan like, 'WE WILL F*CK YOU AND TAKE YOUR STUFF.'

The Republicans can hold up signs saying, 'WE LOVE FREEDOM UNTIL IT MAKES US UNCOMFORTABLE.'

The Muslims can hold up signs saying, 'WE DON'T SPEAK UP ENOUGH WHEN PEOPLE MURDER IN THE NAME OF OUR GOD.'

The Catholics can hold up signs saying, 'WE REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN WE WERE JUST LIKE YOU.'

The Democrats can hold up signs saying, 'WE WILL KEEP YOUR FREEDOMS FOR YOU IN A SAFE PLACE.'

No more pretenses for anyone.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

This is hilarious! Anthony, if you get laid off, you need to go into politics or political commentary, or perhaps professional political snarkalysis...

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:31 AM

Good to see some humor today! I mean 10 days ago none of us were posting about it, and most of us weren't even that aware of it. So now the whole country is at each other's throats over it? Very strange! Lightening up is good for the soul.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:37 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
If Islam doesn't = terrorist, then what in god's name is the problem with an Islamic Center ANYWHERE? And Pizmo, you may have some terribly eccentric and personal reason for opposing this building, but if you look at Kaneman's "face of the GOP" the reason is clear as summer rain: Islam = terrorist.

I'm sorry, but the grief argument carries no wait in this context. No one's grief gives them the right to hold people hostage or deny people their fundamental rights. The local government, the people of NYC have already signed off on this.

And there is grave, grave danger in fetishizing "grief," enshrining it and turning it into a permanent justification for hatred which is EXACTLY what the neo-cons want.

Why hasn't ANYTHING been built at ground zero, leaving this gaping wound in NYC, festering with all our nation's vengeful madness, instead of allowing the wound to heal?

And the message it sends if we allow them to build the Community Center? I would say anything but letting them go ahead with the building paints us as insane, but that's just how I see it. You wanna control "the message," good luck. In this life, we have to do the right thing, and let the world draw its own conclusions. Why should we continue to measure our own actions by the actions of madmen? Let some cave-dwellers determine public policy?

/B]

I never said I opposed the building of the building Ron Paul calls a MOSQUE. I said I thought it was a bad idea. Simple, no history lessons needed. Air Force over NY City freaks people out, same thing-ish.
And - hold onto your scabbards, I'm going to multi task right in front of you - I can think it's a bad idea and not think Islam = terrorism. Funny enough, if you had read the nytimes article linked above (a paper some say has a pretty liberal slant) it turns out there are a number of other people who think along the same lines... muslims even!

Dalil Boubakeur, head of the Grande Mosquée of Paris and one of the most senior Islamic clerics in France, told France-Soir: “There are symbolic places that awaken memories whether you mean to or not. And it isn’t good to awaken memories.”

A senior cleric at Egypt’s Al Azhar, the closest equivalent in the Sunni Islamic world to the Vatican, said that building at the proposed location sounded like bad judgment on the part of American Muslims.

“It will create a permanent link between Islam and 9/11,” said Abdel Moety Bayoumi, a member of the Islamic Research Institute at Al Azhar. “Why should we put ourselves and Islam in a position of blame?”

See?? Good reasons, common sense reasons, reasons that don't include hate. I know, I know, it's just not as much fun.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 10:50 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I know, RL, I just couldn't resist. It came out of reading all the great stuff in this thread that didn't have partisan jihad-speak, then a post from you with little BUT.

And I wasn't "pushing", I was very clear to say that I had no right to ASK, note; I was commenting and expressing my own sadness.

I understand, I truly do. It makes me cringe every time I have to write Fox News or call him Bush, among other things, but I'm trying...

Pizmo, the fact that some Muslims, some Democrats, ALL Republicans and no doubt all or virtually all fundamentalist Christians think it's a bad idea doesn't prove your point, actually it refutes it. These people fear letting it be built there because they fear the repercussions of a COMMUNITY CENTER which is now being viewed as a mosque, a terrorist gathering place, a sign of terrorist victory, and so many other absurd things. The fact that the American people have made them fear us in this way is the best statement I can think of as to why the "majority" is in the wrong and opposition to the COMMUNITY CENTER is such a sad and ugly thing. They're thinking of survival (Dems political, Muslims their OWN and that of the COMMUNITY CENTER). We should be making them fearful of their own survival? Man, we are one Great Nation.

Sometimes majorities = mobs. They have in the past, I've offered examples. In this case it IS a mob: rational people made irrational by appeals to their fear, bigotry, intolerance, IMAGINATION. To take pleasure in being part of a mob is a sad thing. I'm impressed to see mot people here having perspective and not wanting to be part of the mob.

You only have to think a minute about what the "majority" were against in the past to get perspective:

Interracial marriage
Jews in the military
Blacks buying homes in white neighborhoods
Integration
Civil Rights
Divorce of any kind
Women having the vote (or rights)

And things they were FOR:

Japanese internment camps
The Iraq war
The Vietnam War
McCarthy

Think about it. The majority is not always right, in fact, it is as often wrong as it IS right. And it usually turns around the other way in time.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 11:02 AM

I remember reading something interesting from HKCavalier concerning tolerance, and how tolerance comes from a position of strength (not invulnerably). As a Christian and Conservative (NOT to be confused with republican or tea partier) I can tolerate the childish "Christian's rule the government and cause all our problems" arguments, cause free speech is a wonderful thing. I can also tolerate a mosque or not-mosque being built, because even though I may not think it's a great idea, I think freedom of religion is. The point being it is legal and I am not threatened.

I have more than a few very liberal friends (occupational hazard as a musician I suppose haha). Some are quite intelligent and I enjoy hearing what and why they believe what they do, but the majority cannot tolerate an opposing opinion, or respect a religious person's intellect ('course I 'spect this is typical of most political parties and groups of people). However, in the context of tolerance being dependent on strength, I can't fault them for being incapable of tolerance due to their position of inferior relative strength, right?

Still, eventually people have gotta stop blaming Bush and Christianity for all the nation's problems. I'm just sayin' ;)

Not accusin' or callin' anyone out, just expressing some general frustrations and dear God, did I actually identify myself with a political philosophy? This can't end well...

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I never said I opposed the building of the building Ron Paul calls a MOSQUE. I said I thought it was a bad idea. Simple, no history lessons needed. Air Force over NY City freaks people out, same thing-ish.

And - hold onto your scabbards, I'm going to multi task right in front of you - I can think it's a bad idea and not think Islam = terrorism. Funny enough, if you had read the nytimes article linked above (a paper some say has a pretty liberal slant) it turns out there are a number of other people who think along the same lines... muslims even!

Dalil Boubakeur, head of the Grande Mosquée of Paris and one of the most senior Islamic clerics in France, told France-Soir: “There are symbolic places that awaken memories whether you mean to or not. And it isn’t good to awaken memories.”

A senior cleric at Egypt’s Al Azhar, the closest equivalent in the Sunni Islamic world to the Vatican, said that building at the proposed location sounded like bad judgment on the part of American Muslims.

“It will create a permanent link between Islam and 9/11,” said Abdel Moety Bayoumi, a member of the Islamic Research Institute at Al Azhar. “Why should we put ourselves and Islam in a position of blame?”

See?? Good reasons, common sense reasons, reasons that don't include hate. I know, I know, it's just not as much fun.

Pizmo, you know there's a limit to how much sarcasm with which you can lace your post before it is overburdened and breaks under the strain. I think your post is nearly there. It's not working on me, anyway.

Whether or not Dr. Paul calls the place a "mosque" is kinda immaterial, but you really wanted to make sure I heard that. Yeah, I'm aware he used the word. Shocker incoming: a lot of people call the place a "mosque" out of convenience and brevity and some do so--I'm not namin' names!--out of honest ignorance of what a "mosque" really is. Shocker #2: a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant of Muslim culture and happy to remain so.

I never accused you of saying what you never said. However, the difference between "opposing" a thing and thinking something is "a bad idea" seems mostly a matter of conviction.

And shocker #3: It is not because I am a liberal that I support the building going up. I am not surprised that people of various political persuasions think this "mosque" is a "bad idea." Fear knows no political affiliation. Howard Dean is a heck of a lot more liberal than I and he agrees with you. Mayor Bloomberg is a conservative and he very eloquently agrees with me.

Same with Muslims. They are a large heterogeneous group (that's kinda the point folk on this side of the argument have been trying to make, btw). They don't all think alike and are entitled to their opinions--as well as their peaceable assembly, worshipping as they so choose, legal contracts, etc.

And I'm sorry, but “There are symbolic places that awaken memories whether you mean to or not. And it isn’t good to awaken memories,” is just too B-movie spoooooky and full of shit to take seriously. You think you can control what people freakin' remember? You wanna choose THAT road to go down? George Orwell called, he wants his cautionary tale back, looks like you're using it as a life preserver--1984 is not a floatation device.

Here's a thing: if you don't think it's a good idea to build a mosque in lower Manhattan, then don't build one!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 1:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
How on EARTH do we get the American people to SEE THIS?!

Y'know, I think we're looking at the latest outbreak of Palin Syndrome (Palin-drome?). Things look pretty dire for about two weeks generally, but even untreated the fever seems to burn itself out in most patients before any lasting harm is done--though many patients seem to suffer from a lingering form of mild amnesia.

Patient zero almost always dies though, the disease is quite incurable for the carrier, it seems. Thing is, an outbreak of Palin Syndrome seems only to attack when patient zero is nearly terminal already. The last definitive case in this country was John McCain's Presidential Campaign and it didn't last long once P.S. entered its system. This time it's the tea party movement in critical condition.

It's a shame, because Palin Syndrome is entirely preventable with proper mental hygiene.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:52 PM

It's funny, HKC, because I've been thinking about the "Palin-drome" thing lately, too. A palindrome is a word or sentence that reads the same backwards or forwards ("racecar" is one; "Able was I, ere I saw Elba" is another). A Sarah-Palin-drome, however, is always more backwards than forward.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:

Still, eventually people have gotta stop blaming Bush and Christianity for all the nation's problems. I'm just sayin' ;)

And eventually, people will have to stop blaming Obama and Islam for all our problems, too. Just sayin'. ;)

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:12 PM

haha fair enough. I would argue that blaming Obama is at least more relevant (seeing as how he and his are in charge right now) than blaming bush, but the truth is Obama is also being blamed for things not his fault. I just wish I were allowed to criticize their policies without having to be labeled a 'racist.'

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
haha fair enough. I would argue that blaming Obama is at least more relevant (seeing as how he and his are in charge right now) than blaming bush, but the truth is Obama is also being blamed for things not his fault. I just wish I were allowed to criticize their policies without having to be labeled a 'racist.'

Yeah, and I wish I were allowed to criticize the invasion of Iraq 7 years ago without being labeled a "terrorist". Guess you can't always get what you want...

Heck, I can't even defend the rights of one religious group to do what dozens of other religious groups do every day in this country without being labeled one. Apparently most Americans believe in "equal rights" for all, but some are clearly more "equal" than others.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:47 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I see Christians as being noble in their desire to spread the greatness of their god(again as silly as that is).

You know I think all religions come from the same place, one I can sympathise with because I've been there: an honest desire to make sense of our existence, and find humanity's 'true' path. All religions have moral beauty in them, but all are also quite backward - because they're old, and are unwilling to accept moral greyness.

But when I hear a muslim talk about the beauty and benevolence in his religion I believe him - because I recognise the same attitude that I once had. And all religions have emphases like these in them somewhere.

I guess my point is that there's nobleness in Islam as well as any other faith. And you can't compare the noble side of christianity with the ugly extremist side of Islam.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, August 26, 2010 4:27 PM