REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The State of Freedom in Ukraine

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, April 21, 2024 13:59
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Sunday, April 5, 2015 12:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


RESIDENTS MUST BE DEPORTED BEFORE "AFFECTIONATE UKRAINIANZATION" CAN BEGIN

Quote:

Dmitri Yarosh, Rada MP and leader of Ukraine’s Right Sector, has declared that the unruly residents of eastern Ukraine must be deported and deprived of their civil rights before a program of ‘affectionate Ukrainianization’ can begin.

In an interview for Ukrainian newspaper Obosrevatel published on Sunday, Ukrainian Right Sector leader and Rada deputy Dmitri Yarosh stated that the unruly residents of eastern Ukraine should be deported and deprived of their civil rights.

Yarosh noted that much of Donbas is populated by ‘Sovoks’, an insulting slang term in Ukrainian and Russian derived from the word ‘Soviet’. Yarosh stated that the region “is populated by Sovoks –real Sovoks. And they should be deported. We have to deal with those who do not want to live by the rules and the laws of the state in a very harsh manner. This includes deportation, the deprivation of civil rights, and so on. Without force, it will not be possible to do anything with the region, to turn the tide so to speak.” ....



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=518645.6860

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Sunday, April 5, 2015 5:27 PM

THGRRI


I found 1kiki's and SIG's place of operation. It must be very frustrating to them their cover is blown. If Putin finds out they'll be history. What a lovely thought.


Salutin' Putin: inside a Russian troll house

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russ
ian-troll-house


Sieg Heil, comrade

Propaganda within Nazi Germany was taken to a new and frequently perverse level. Hitler was very aware of the value of good propaganda and he appointed Joseph Goebbels as head of propaganda.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propaganda_in_nazi_germany.htm

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Monday, April 6, 2015 11:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Putin's a great and strong leader for his people. He doesn't care about political correctness, global warming, the U.N., Ketchup-Gigolo John Kerry, or any of the limp-wristed douchebag Europeans. He says 'fuck you' to the whole suicidal world. We could/should be doing great things with him.

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Monday, April 6, 2015 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


FROM RADIO FREE EUROPE VIA THE KYIV POST

Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty: Far-right leader named Ukrainian military adviser

Quote:

The controversial leader of Ukraine's ultranationalist Right Sector paramilitary group has been named an army adviser. Ukrainian Armed Forces spokesman Oleksey Mazepa announced on April 6 that Dmytro Yarosh would "act as a link between volunteer battalions and the General Staff."


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/radio-free-europeradio-
liberty-far-right-leader-named-ukrainian-military-adviser-385537.html


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, April 6, 2015 5:02 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


'The State of Freedom in Ukraine'

A lone, far-right MP running his mouth - yep it's called freedom of speech, Siggy.

If you think that any of the policies that this guy espouses will actually HAPPEN - well, you know where the predictions thread is.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, April 6, 2015 5:42 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Putin's a great and strong leader for his people. He doesn't care about political correctness, global warming, the U.N., Ketchup-Gigolo John Kerry, or any of the limp-wristed douchebag Europeans. He says 'fuck you' to the whole suicidal world. We could/should be doing great things with him.



Yep, and he does it while lying to the world as well as his countrymen and annexing parts of other countries, while heading as corrupt a regime as any we've seen.

Either he is brilliant or the Russia people aren't very bright. I think it's the later because it's 2015 and they still live in the past and subjugate themselves to this type of government. They still live the lives of a conquered people and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe change is the air for them. Especially when I see the extent that SIG and 1kiki go to, to cover up what goes on there. Do you notice they do that by attacking the west and not by suggesting Russia is a well governed country?




I found 1kiki's and SIG's place of operation. It must be very frustrating to them their cover is blown. If Putin finds out they'll be history. What a lovely thought.


Salutin' Putin: inside a Russian troll house

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russ
ian-troll-house

Sieg Heil, comrade

Propaganda within Nazi Germany was taken to a new and frequently perverse level. Hitler was very aware of the value of good propaganda and he appointed Joseph Goebbels as head of propaganda.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propaganda_in_nazi_germany.htm


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Monday, April 6, 2015 6:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I found 1kiki's and SIG's place of operation.

I literally laughed out loud.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, April 6, 2015 6:31 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Putin's a great and strong leader for his people. He doesn't care about political correctness, global warming, the U.N., Ketchup-Gigolo John Kerry, or any of the limp-wristed douchebag Europeans. He says 'fuck you' to the whole suicidal world. We could/should be doing great things with him.



Yep, and he does it while lying to the world as well as his countrymen and annexing parts of other countries, while heading as corrupt a regime as any we've seen.

Either he is brilliant or the Russia people aren't very bright. I think it's the later because it's 2015 and they still live in the past and subjugate themselves to this type of government. They still live the lives of a conquered people and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe change is the air for them. Especially when I see the extent that SIG and 1kiki go to, to cover up what goes on there. Do you notice they do that by attacking the west and not by suggesting Russia is a well governed country?




I found 1kiki's and SIG's place of operation. It must be very frustrating to them their cover is blown. If Putin finds out they'll be history. What a lovely thought.


Salutin' Putin: inside a Russian troll house

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russ
ian-troll-house

Sieg Heil, comrade

Propaganda within Nazi Germany was taken to a new and frequently perverse level. Hitler was very aware of the value of good propaganda and he appointed Joseph Goebbels as head of propaganda.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/propaganda_in_nazi_germany.htm




Laughing 1kiki, I don't think so. Funny how you and SIG find fault with every country on the plant but Russia.

I think it's time I go the way of G. Talking with some of you here is depressing to say the least. It's hard for me to dummy myself down in an attempt to converse with whack jobs.


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Monday, April 6, 2015 6:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


On the 'plant'? Philodendron? Ficus? Dracena? Which 'plant'?

So, I criticize every country on the 'plant' but Russia. Have you seen me criticizing ... Switzerland? France? Norway? Finland? Argentina? Brazil? Burkina Faso? New Zealand? China?

The problem when you make unfounded statements - like you've found my 'place of operation' or that I criticize 'every' country but Russia - is that they stand out as being incredibly stupid. It deducts from any trace of credibility you have left. (Which is close to zero.) If you want to play the 'zinger' game, you have to post with a modicum of intelligence and credibility, otherwise everyone - even people who WANT to be on your side - will write you off as a useless, embarrassing buffoon.




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, April 11, 2015 9:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ukraine Blocks 10,000 Websites, Confiscates a Newspaper

Quote:

As I reported yesterday, the Security Bureau of Ukraine, on April 7th, had seized and disappeared two Odessa bloggers, who were trying to get an independent investigation, and ultimate prosecution, of the individuals who participated in the 2 May 2014 massacre of regime opponents, and who burned, shot, and clubbed to death perhaps over 200 in the Odessa Trade Unions Building — the event that precipitated the breakaway of Donbass from the rest of the former Ukraine, the country’s civil war.

And I also reported that April 7th saw the official announcement that, “The security service of Ukraine … has discontinued operation of a number of Internet sites that were used to perpetrate information campaigns of aggression on the part of the Russian Federation aimed at violent change or overthrow of the constitutional order and territorial integrity and inviolability of Ukraine.”

The follow-up to that story is the news on April 9th, which was reported in the courageous independent Kiev newspaper, Vesti, that “SBU has blocked more than 10,000 websites.” It says that, “Law enforcers seized the servers,” and that one SBU official told the newspaper, “‘We have made the decision of the court and confiscated equipment.’ He promised to return the servers in two months.”

Another news report on April 9th in Vesti tells of seizures of that day’s edition of newspapers by far-right toughs at news stands throughout the city, and the story even shows a video of Right Sector toughs raiding and emptying a Vesti delivery van headed out for distribution. The report also said:

“On Thursday, April 9, machines [coin-operated distribution boxes] that were transporting part of the circulation of the Kiev edition of the newspaper ‘Vesti’ were attacked. The attacks occurred around the metro stations ‘Heroes of Dnepr’ and ‘Vasylkivska.’ In both cases, the scenario was the same: the circulation machine was blocked by two cars that emerged containing unidentified men wearing symbols of the ‘Right Sector’ who illegally seized the circulation. In the case near the metro station ‘Vasylkivska,’ a driver was beaten, and the attackers threatened to burn his car.”

Back on 5 July 2014, Vesti had headlined, “Masked men smashed and fired into ‘Vesti’: broke windows, spread tear gas.” A video accompanied that news report, too. The video showed a man outside the newspaper’s office, opening the door, being suddenly attacked by approximately a hundred men who rushed at him from hiding and beat him.

The accompanying news report from a witness said:

“I first heard several shots. Then stones and Molotov cocktails were hurled at windows on the first and second floors. After that, the room filled with tear gas, which quickly spread throughout the office, and it’s still very hard to breathe. One of the guards who tried to stop the thugs was beaten.”

The video shows all of this from the outside of the building.

There are accompanying photos of the ransacked office.

That news report, in turn, linked to an earlier one, on 27 June 2014. That report had said: “Suddenly, four dozen masked strangers came, headed by the controversial deputy of Kyiv City Council, Igor Lutsenko.” These men “began to shout anti-Putin slogans, and then climbed onto the improvised stage” where there was to be presentation of a Constitution Day award. “Finally, radicals tried to throw bricks at our editors, but Maidan volunteers blocked that.”

The head of the Security Bureau of Ukraine, Valentyn Nalyvaychenko, the man who closed 10,000 online sites on April 7th, was reported, a week earlier, on April 1st, (translation here) saying:

“SBU does not need to invent anything new. It is necessary only to build on the traditions and approaches that were set forth by the Security Service of the OUN-UPA in the 1930-1950 years. They battled against the aggressor [Russia] during the temporary occupation of the territory [Ukraine, which ’temporary’ period was already 350 years], had a patriotic education, military counterintelligence, and relied on the peaceful Ukrainian population, using its unprecedented support.”

This video recounts and shows the history of “OUN-UPA in the 1930-1950 years” and documents that it carried out most of Adolf Hitler’s extermination program in Ukraine during World War II — including 80% of the Babi Yar massacre of Jews, which the Russian poet Yevtushenko memorialized. To the people that the Obama Administration has placed in power in Ukraine, it was a heroic achievement. And yet, far-right Jews are part of it — ideological brothers-under-the-skin, and it also has the support of 98%+ of the U.S. Congress.

The head of the Security Bureau of Ukraine lied about the ‘temporary’ inclusion of Ukraine as part of Russia, and also about how ‘peaceful’ was the reign of Ukraine’s and Germany’s nazis over Ukraine during 1940-1944. But at least he was honest that he is returning to those “traditions and approaches.”

Barack Obama reigned over the entire process and installed these people into power over Ukraine. He has almost 100% congressional support for that within both the Republican and Democratic Parties, even though over two-thirds of Americans who have an opinion on the matter are opposed to his policy. America’s Establishment wants him to pursue this policy more aggressively. And the West’s newsmedia blame Russia’s Vladimir Putin.

Here is a video of Ukraine’s troops shelling the Donbass village of Slavyansk and joking that they’ll turn it into a “crematorium.”

As I reported earlier, the founder of Right Sector, Dmitriy Yarosh, was the leader of the thugs who perpetrated the May 2nd massacre, and who also carried out the February 2014 coup that brought these people to power in Ukraine. Starting on April 20th (Hitler’s birthday), his men will be receiving military training and weapons from U.S. troops, whom Obama is sending in to help them and other exectuioners with their program of exterminating the residents in Donbass — the region that rejects the coup-imposed government. So, Yarosh helps Obama not only by terrorizing the few remaining independent news media in Ukraine, but also by installing Obama’s regime there, and now, increasingly, by fighting his war there. Yarosh is already the most powerful person in Ukraine, and yet his power is still increasing there. He’s a man to watch. He wants Putin dead, so Putin is probably watching him carefully. Obama meanwhile, is watching Putin’s ‘aggression.’


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/04/ukraine-blocks-10000-websites-c
onfiscates-newspaper.html


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, April 11, 2015 10:05 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I think it's time I go the way of G. Talking with some of you here is depressing to say the least. It's hard for me to dummy myself down in an attempt to converse with whack jobs.
I take what you say seriously ... until you start substituting personal attacks for substantive discussion, that is (which is most of the time.)

The problem with you is that you're like RAPPY and other totally propagandized here - you don't know HOW to have a discussion! Do you really think that you're "talking with" anyone here?

HAHAHA! You're not. "Talking with" someone usually involves listening and responding on-point, and then listening to the response and then responding on-point. YOU haven't done that ... well, ever, as far as I can tell. No wonder you feel depressed and frustrated!

Go away, then. Come back when you know how to have a discussion.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, April 12, 2015 12:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Kiev junta launches a large scale attack on Novorossia right in time for Russian Orthodox Easter

Quote:

Shells are whistling again over the cities of Donbass. In Donetsk the sirens of ambulances and emergency services are heard. Under fire: Kievsky district, Oktyabrsky village, Panfilov mine village, Gladkova, Severny, Putilovka.

The entire evening of April 9 there was a battle in the village of Spartak and near Peski. The punishers used artillery guns, tanks, mortars, heavy barreled artillery. Under the cover of artillery, the enemy attempted to seize the positions of the militia in Spartak and near the airport. During the battle, this attempt was severely suppressed.

Also suddenly the positions of the militia near the town of Yasynovataya were attacked. There was a battle using small arms. To the West of Petrovsky district of Donetsk working mortars are also heard, as well as grenade launchers and heavy machine guns.

From the occupied Volnovakha Dokuchayevsk was fired on. The outskirts of the city are under a heavy fire of the enemy, the people are hiding in shelters fearing the assault on the city by the punishers, who have assembled the biggest formation in this area of about 8 thousand people.

According to a resident of Dokuchayevsk, "Locals demand that the militia do not leave them alone and hold positions at any cost, women are hysterically crying, saying that Ukrainians will go into the city and start a massacre. Older women bless the passing trucks with soldiers and pray for the victory and a speedy liberation to the district from the Ukrainian troops".

Over Donetsk about a dozen enemy drones were spotted, one of which was shot down near the Lidiyevka mine.



Kiev launches attacks, is capable of a dirty bomb says Secretary of Kiev's National and Security Defense Council Aleksander Turchynov
Since the "share" feature of Youtube doesn't seem to be working, "copy/paste" and remove the space between youtube. and com
https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=F_i4G07zf58
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, April 12, 2015 12:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Agence France-Presse: Ukraine outlaws Communist names in fresh break with Soviet past

Quote:

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine on Thursday outlawed Communist names, symbols and even songs in a fresh break with the country's Soviet past as its soldiers fight pro-Russian separatists in the east.
The legislation, which also targets Nazi propaganda was adopted by 254 votes in favour in the 450-member parliament, or Rada.
It bans all symbols and propaganda representing "the totalitarian Communist and Nazi regimes" -- from street names and flags, to monuments and plaques.
For the former Soviet republic it could mean a major overhaul of public buildings and town squares across the country, with Lenin Streets to be renamed and any remaining statue of the Soviet leader removed.


http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/agence-france-presse-uk
raine-outlaws-communist-names-in-fresh-break-with-soviet-past-385796.html


Will the Wolfsangel, favored by the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, also be removed, as well as any references to Bandera?



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, April 12, 2015 1:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Will the Wolfsangel, favored by the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion, also be removed, as well as any references to Bandera?

And who's going to remove them?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, April 17, 2015 1:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ukraine conflict: Pro-Russia journalist Oles Buzyna killed

Quote:

A Ukrainian journalist known for his pro-Russian views has been shot dead in the capital Kiev.Oles Buzyna, 45, was killed by shots fired from a car, Interior Ministry adviser Anton Gerashchenko said.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32337621

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, April 18, 2015 4:51 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Does this mean you folk are still arguing about whether the invading Russian Special Forces in Ukraine have invaded, or are still present, or are still denying the facts?

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Saturday, April 18, 2015 6:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Still can't figure out the topic?




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, April 25, 2015 9:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ukrainian neo-nazis from Azov batallion burned alive a Novorossia resistance fighter on a cross (video 18+)

http://abundanthope.net/pages/Political_Information_43/Ukrainian-neo-n
azis-from-Azov-batallion-burned-alive-a-Novorossia-resistance-fighter-on-a-cross-video-18_printer.shtml


Let's hope it's not true.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, May 30, 2015 12:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Because nothing says ANTICORRUPTION like appointing a politician from a neighboring country who has been indicted for .... what was that again? Oh yeah- embezzlement, abuse of power, and politically-motivated attacks. This foreigner will become governor to the Odessa region: EXACTLY what the people need!

Quote:

Georgia's former President Mikhail Saakashvili, wanted by his country's prosecutors for embezzlement, abuse of power and politically-motivated attacks, has been appointed governor of Ukraine's Odessa region.

President Petro Poroshenko personally appointed Saakashvili to the post, saying the former Georgian leader is "a friend of Ukraine." In a statement at Saakashvili's nomination in Odessa, Poroshenko said the two had known each other for 25 years, since university days.

According to Poroshenko, Saakashvili "has proven with deeds, not words that he can not only give birth to creative ideas, but also put them into practice." He added Georgia's ex-president had changed his country "in the direction of transparency, effectiveness, anti-corruption, appeal for foreign investors, fair justice, protection of citizen's rights, democracy," something Poroshenko "would like to see very much" in Odessa.

Earlier on Saturday, Saakashvili was given Ukrainian citizenship under Petro Poroshenko's personal decree, published on his website. According to the Ukrainian constitution, only a citizen can become an official at governor level.

Mikhail Saakashvili left Georgia in autumn 2013, days before his presidential term expired. He has been living abroad ever since.

In spring 2014, Georgia's new ruling coalition accused Saakashvili of embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars from the state budget. According to Georgian officials' accounts, he spent the money on parties and expensive presents for his nearest and dearest. Saakshvili denies the charges, saying the funds went to attracting foreign investors to the country. Georgia's prosecutors have started an investigation into the case.

Read moreUkraine refuses to extradite ex-Georgian President Saakashvili

There are several other criminal cases ongoing against Mikhail Saakashvili. He is being accused of abuse of power during the crackdown on anti-government protests in the Georgian capital Tbilisi on November 7, 2007. He was also allegedly involved in the attack on the opposition TV station Imedi, which was seized by Georgian special forces on the same day, and the appropriation of the founder's assets.

During his term, Saakashvili personally controlled the country's special forces. After his opponents came to power, the force was removed from the head of state's direct command, and its documents declassified.

In February 2015, Georgia issued an extradition request for Saakashvili, but Ukraine declined it.

The Russian Foreign Ministry's human rights representative Konstantiv Dolgov has made a sarcastic comment about Saakashvili's new post. "Saakashvili, accused of multiple crimes against the people of Georgia, has been appointed the governor of Odessa, where neo-nazis had burned people alive and got no punishment," Dolgov said on Twitter, referring to the May 2014 fire in which dozens opponents of the Maidan movement perished.

"This is deeply symbolic of 'Kiev-style democracy', which the West is still watching with shameful approval!" the Russian official added.

Saakashvili has been a long-time supporter of the current Kiev administration, ever since its heads were leaders of the Maidan movement which toppled the former Ukrainian president in the February 2014 coup. He came to Kiev to support the protesters during the rioting. Before the latest appointment, Saakashvili was Poroshenko's advisor on reform.

In his new post, Saakashvili says he plans to turn the port city of Odessa into "the capital of the Black Sea." In an address following his nomination, he said: "It is very important for me to start, because this is going to be a very long process," adding, "it needs serious change... to bring many more tourists and investors to Odessa and turn it into a real world wonder."



Well, let's see if he does a better job in Ukraine than in Georgia, where his people didn't seem to appreciate his inability to jump-start the economy, and his increasingly authoritarian ways as a substitute for a real improvement in living standards.


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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, July 4, 2015 9:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Volunteers" make up a significant portion of Kiev's fighting force. Rather than being set up by the Ministry of Defense, the "volunteer" units were set up in parallel by the Interior Ministry, calling on all patriotic Ukrainians to volunteer for what they called a "National Guard". Predictably, since the head of the Right (Nazi) Sektor (Yarosh) was behind this, the volunteer/national guard forces have taken in a distinctly Nazi flavor, with groups such as the Azov and Adair battalions flying/wearing the Nazi swastika and wolfsangel (Here is Azov ... you can see their name in the background as A3OB with all of their beloved Nazi symbolism)





All of that is to put this in context, so you know "who" the "volunteer" units are un Ukraine.

Torture, rape and murder accusations swirl around Luhansk "volunteer" unit

Quote:

During a Shuster Live television show aired on June 19, Ukraine’s Chief Military Prosecutor Anatoly Matios cited alleged eyewitness testimony given by prisoners held by Tornado. The prisoners were “beaten on their legs, buttocks and thighs,” as well as genitalia, he claimed.

Some prisoners were forced to rape other prisoners, he added. “(Tornado fighters) stripped prisoners naked,put them on a concrete floor and poured water on them,” Matios said. “They put a bare electric cable on their heads and genitalia.”

Tornado fighters deny the charges.



http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/photo/gbcnbvbnvbn-392002.html

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, July 5, 2015 10:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Out of all of the so-called "inalienable" rights that Americans like to blather about (if they were really so inalienable, so many people wouldn't be forcibly separated from them!) the most important is the right to life. Because, of course, without that, you can't enjoy any of the other "rights" that you think are due.

Ukraine in general, Kiev in particular, and Nazis especially, are no more tolerant of gays than their Russian Nazi compatriots. The difference is that last I heard, Russian Nazis aren't welcome in Russian society, and Russian Nazis aren't killing thousands of people.

Your priorities are skewed, and your arithmetic is absent. Like I said: start counting bodies first. It will help orient you as to who is the worse violator of "human rights".


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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, August 8, 2015 12:36 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, let's see ... leftwing parties banned in Ukraine. Miners shot at by Aidair (Nazi) battalion. 80% (according to a sideways reference in interview of Kiev official) of people in Mariupol side with the Novorossians, held in check by the rightwing battalions. Rightwing battalions in Kiev threaten a(nother) coup. Firefight between rightwing battalions and government forces in Transcarpathia (which has its own burgeoning separatist movement, since most people there speak Hungarian or Rusyn ... which is NOT a form of Russian!) Local elections in the Kiev-controlled area of the Donbas are canceled. Reporters arrested, beaten, and/or killed. Opposition politicians arrested, harrassed, and killed.

Poroshenko, by report,, is an advanced drunk, just like Yeltsin. And like Yeltsin, he's presiding over a disintegrating nation with the support of the USA.

Here is an interesting interview by former Rada (Ukrainian Parliament) member Tatyana Montoyan, a Ukrainian politician and party-independent candidate.

No representation is made of its veracity.


Quote:



Interviewer:
Tatiana Montyan joining us today. We will start with a serious subject - in a few of your interviews and videos you have mentioned that Ukrainian economy is in a “war economy stage”, so what can you tell us about what it is and how does it work?

Montyan:
It works very simply: the biggest money is to be made at the war, so all the efforts are obviously concentrated on earning money on the war, and keeping the war going and keeping the money flowing.

First off, the main thing is stealing the military budget. Lying to people that we are about to be invaded by Russia, that there are millions of troops on the border... It's much easier to simply steal the military budgets instead of spending money on things truly important to society. They are the first and main target of the war economy.
So how does the money get stolen? The more volunteers, or forcibly conscripted people grabbed off the street, can be pushed into encirclements and killed by the thousands, the more people can be used as an excuse to steal a huge amount of salaries, weapons, gear. That's the main profit.

Separatists with telling me - “What, they really think in Ukraine that Putin is sending us weapons across the border? We just buy them from the Ukrainians!” They sell the weapons and gear that were supposed to be given to the people who are now rotting in Ilovaisk, Debaltsevo, Lutugino, and other encirclements. UAF is not reporting losses mainly to be able to steal the salaries, weapons, and gear those people were supposed to have. And of course, if a person is “missing in action” and not actually reported killed, his family doesn't need to be paid any sort of compensation, so that's another benefit.


Then, of course, the checkpoints that everybody “loves” - where smuggling is going through in huge columns of trucks and the money for it goes to the people holding checkpoints. And to get to run a checkpoint you have to pay our glorious Army a huge amount of money - this has been discussed and discussed again, everywhere.

And we can not forget the category of people that are the so-called “volunteer helpers”. Of course, some of them are naïve and stupid and don't understand that if they collect the money and aid for the army, and do the job that the Ministry of Defense and the government is supposed to be doing, they are taking that task away from the government and letting it steal more money, therefore exacerbating the problem.

But there are also a lot of people who are actually stealing the money that they are supposedly collecting for “the front and victory” and we already had plenty of scandals like that, and some people are even in prison for stealing.

So these are the four simplest kinds of earning money on the war, and this is not even talking about looting and all of that. And of course, looting doesn't start at the bottom - in order to be able to rob with impunity, you have to share with the command. As you know, [after a year], the Post Office has finally stopped taking shipments from the soldiers without proof of purchase, because they were literally sending washing machines that still had water inside, etc. A huge amount has been sent home by our glorious soldiers over this year… So everybody is earning money on the war, everybody who’s connected to it, or connected to people who are connected to the war. Of course, if that's the most profitable venture then people will ensure it keeps going.

This happens in any country and under such circumstances - if what we had at the Maidan was a “glorious revolution” or “heinous betrayal” doesn't matter at this point. If this is this what brings the most money, all the effort will go to earning money on war. And yes, everybody is like that - 90% of people are just like that. There are a few percent altruistic people who wouldn't take the money, but the rest would find some sort of excuse - “I need to feed my family”, “it's not me, it's the situation”... As an old Arab saying goes - “Find an excuse for yourself, and you can steal the rugs from a mosque”.

So it's obvious that in order to stop this, we need to create conditions where this is not the most beneficial activity, but as Ukraine's is no longer sovereign - I think that after the speech in the parliament of the State Department representative Nuland and Ambassador Pyatt it's obvious to everybody - nothing depends us, everything depends on the “White masters”, and the white masters [USA] don't want to stop the war for now.

So this is what we got. When people at the Maidan were being told - “What are you doing, you will ruin the country”, they didn't believe, or were too stupid or something. And that’s not the first time that happens in history - [look at Syria, Libya, Yugoslavia, etc.]. And still, for the hundredth time, there are plenty of idiots who believe that they just need to do a revolution, and as long as they throw enough Molotov cocktails at their own law enforcement, if they destroy and kill everybody who doesn't agree with them, then they will make heaven on on earth.

I don't know where we got such degenerates, but there are plenty of them and they walk among us. And now they wonder “How did this happen? We didn’t expect it…”

About the problems Russia brought Crimea, and most people still being satisfied with joining Russia

Interviewer:
Have you been to Crimea, what are your impressions from being in the Russia-annexed territories?

Montyan:
I saw what I expected to see. I didn't learn anything I didn't already know, but in order to form my own impression I went there in person, saw everything with my own eyes.

Simferopol airport is getting about 110 flights a day from a huge number of cities all around Russia, and before they were maybe a few flights a day, because most people came by a car and train. But the Ukrainian border crossing at Chongar has been “blocked” - although by now there is a way to get in, you just need to pay about 30 bucks to the right people, they already figured everything out and arranged with everybody, but the rail is blocked.

So these 110 flights plus the people that come by ferry to Kerch, still can not create the same number of tourists that they had when Ukraine was controlling Crimea. The people who come there on the planes, they hang out in the famous, well-known places. Yalta, Altushta, Koktebel, Evparotia. Kerch is especially lucky, of course, because before, to get to Kerch, you needed to drive 60 miles, and, you know, what was the point. But now Kerch is the site of the ferry where the Russians come, and that's where they stay - because there are no better beaches than in Kerch anywhere, not just in Crimea but in the world - and this is my just my patriotism, as I've been everywhere on beaches in the world and Kerch is really the best one. But the places that are not famous and not large centers are completely screwed.

I went down the 29th highway, it's a winding road on the south shore. Rybachie is completely desolated, I was one of three people in a four-story hotel at the entrance to town. Two thirds of the restaurants are closed, I went to the local market - disgusting beef covered by flies is about 4 bucks a pound. So that's that's how it is. Morskoe was always a cool place, the slightly poorer people were always dancing there, hanging out, now completely deserted, very few people. Further on Hwy 58, there were crowds of people there, there was a tent city, now there are a few tents even though it’s just a dollar per day. So away from the big centers is completely dead, very few people, Beregovoe is like 200 yards from Feodosia and completely empty. Ukrainians knew where to go, all the cool small places, they always knew the locals, they always came to the same places - they knew not to stay in Yalta, with its crappy beaches, but go to nice small places away from the crowds. But now there are no Ukrainians, and Russians are all crowding in Feodosia and 200 yards away Beregovoe is a ghost town.

Moreover, Russia has their own way of stealing budgets, there are so-called “10% cost union-organized trips”. So of course they send grannies who come there, [stay in a reserved hotel] and are on a tight budget - not like the Ukrainian mafia who would come there with a bunch of prostitutes and drank all the money away. So the Russian tourists are more reserved and more demanding. Even in the famous places, in Kerch, all the cool hotels and the resorts and everything is occupied, but the so-called “hostels” in the slums - they are mostly empty. Because people who make it to Crimea from Russia, who flew in, the will not go to a crappy slum place, and the smaller hotels are also half-empty.

So the situation was the people who owned a few apartments and rented to the local tourists, the Ukrainian government never asked them many questions, never taxed them. The Russian government made them register, made them pay taxes, they know exactly how many rooms they have…

So there are several kinds of people in Crimea:

- The extremely pleased - the cops, the judges, the prosecutors, the military, and various officials. They get a comparatively huge amount of money, they are totally pro-Russian and completely happy.

- The retired people. They get decent social security checks, even though the prices increased, they are happy because they got healthcare and other good infrastructure they still remember from the Soviet times, and Russia is really much better than Ukraine. One grandma told me - “What did Ukraine ever do for us? And the Russians gave us free MRI - right here in town!”

- The various government employees - teachers etc. The salaries increased, but the prices increased too, so financially it’s the same but they tell us - “You have war, you have crazy usurpers in Kiev, so this is way better.”

- And the completely unhappy - the people who earned their own money, the people who rented the rooms, the people who owned small businesses, and those who live in small towns, etc.

So I drove about 450 miles - I went up to Yalta, down the 29th hwy, down to Alushta, been to Feodosia and Kerch, and I can't say that they fixed the roads up that much. They've added like 50 miles of new highway between Feodosia and Kerch, they added new highway between Feodosia and Simferopol, but I didn't see that much fixed up otherwise. From the Russian budget, they sent $4 billion to Crimea. So this money went to increasing salaries for various retirees, government employees, to Artek camp, which is being improved hugely, to the airport which already has four terminals and is really a very good airport, as I said - over 100 flights a day, coming and going every five minutes. I heard that Sevastopol has been redone but I haven't seen it. But overall, I would say that about $3 billion was just stolen by the local “Goblin” Aksenov and the various “activists” - also known as bandits - that Russians decided to put in power, plus Yanukovich's people that have now joined the Russian ruling party, and so on. Now there are tons of corruption scandals…
...

Moreover, locals told me to that a huge number of [powerful] people from Kiev - you know, prosecutors, cops, various businessmen - they get the Russian passports, they come to Crimea through Moscow or Rostov, to avoid being seen at Ukrainian checkpoints on Chongar, they figure out all their problems, figure out all the questions, and feel great there. It’s especially funny for cops and prosecutors who in Kiev prosecute people for being “household separatists” [i.e. merely disagreeing with the government in their kitchens].

So most likely Russians will only invest in Sevastopol’, Balaklava,“Artek” [famous Soviet-era resort for children], they will invest in the airport, in the ferry and Kerch, but it won't invest in anything else. So the agriculture will get screwed over, Jankoi got screwed over because before it was on the main route to get into Crimea, but now it's deserted. So that's how it is.

Interviewer: [What about pro-Ukrainians]?

Montyan:
Yes, there are some people who are our “Ukrainian patriots”, who walk around with Ukrainian flags, wear traditional embroidered shirts - nobody cares, nobody does anything to them because they are not dangerous at all, because the vast majority of locals, even if they're not terribly happy with Russia, they look at the chaos and Somalia that we got in Kiev and tell me - “Yes Russian state is bad and harsh, but it's an actual state! It's not chaos and lawlessness that usurpers established in Kiev!” So that's the situation objectively.

About attitudes in Russia

Montyan:
...
I went from Moscow to Crimea and then back to Moscow, I had a matter to settle there. As for how the Russians are doing in Moscow, they’re doing fine. Yeah, the currency is jumping, when I was there the before the ruble was 49 rubles per dollar, and this time it's 57 rubles to a dollar, by the locals are ok. You know, if anybody thinks Russians are such fans of Putin, that's not exactly true. They tell me - “Yeah, we know everything about Putin, we know everything about his bunch of thieves, problems with the budget etc. but [if the other option] is a State Department-funded revolution and all that brings... Let [Putin’s bunch] stay in power for now, until they're tired of it, because if we have Maidan or anything similar we’ll get the same Somalia that you have in Ukraine - it's better to have a bad state than none.”

Well, that's what the reasonable people are saying - of course, the victims of state propaganda shout “We got Crimea! We got Crimea!” because they don't the look of the state of economy, they can’t calculate the budgets, they just have their imperial ambitions. But the reasonable people who don't have any illusions and look at everything objectively, they still think Putin is better than Maidan.

About the "new police force"

Interviewer:
So, looks like Americans decided to film a rerun of the “Police Academy” show in Kiev. What can you say about the new police?

Montyan:
Well, I’ll say this: I had a driver’s license for a very long time. In Crimea, they rented a car to me just seeing how long I've had one. I’m an accomplished judo competitor- I can easily throw somebody so they won't get up.


[Relevant video: Montyan competing in an MMA fight, back in 2009, against a much younger champion. Warning - looks quite bloody.

]

But after three months training I wouldn't go to the police force, because even for someone with my experience of driving it's not easy to learn police-type driving skills, it's hard and is very different from driving like a regular person. I don't think that even with my hand-to-hand experience I could be taught within 3 months to secure a person without damaging them, because in all my previous practice, I never had to do this, because the people I threw were trained to take it. So I think this is all for show - in 3 months time one can't train people, even prepared ones like myself, much less people off the street, which is evidenced by the fact they already destroyed several cars. Yes, they try their best, they are nice, polite, etc. - but when it was at a train station going to Ivano-Frankovsk, two guys had a fight... So one new police car came, everybody told them what happened, second car, explained again, third car, go again... People were already standing there laughing. Finally, regular cops came and did everything correctly, wrote down the protocol and police report. So all you need to know about the new police force.

The regular cops tell me - “If we got that much money, if we got new cars, if we got enough gas to get around as much as we want, if we didn't have to collect bribes for our bosses and pay their bosses as well, if we didn't have to do a bunch of pointless bureaucratic work, useless statistics, if we didn’t have a strict quota of crimes we are supposed to solve every month - we would be much better than these kids that still don’t know what they're doing, and won’t to learn for quite a while”.

And moreover, the new police started working on July 4th, they have no legal basis - the law has not been signed yet, as far as I know they did not swear allegiance to anybody, and why are they working at all and what legal justification they have - nobody knows.

Why did [our government] have to bend so low in front of our foreign masters in order to [launch new police] on their Independence Day - I have no idea. Why don’t they do it legally, correctly, and without screwing over all these nice kids, most of whom actually tried to do something good? I have no idea. I think it will all end as usual - some people will become corrupt, some will leave, the new cars will get broken… So that's how it is. The worst thing is that some of those glamorous girls may get their noses broken by some local toughs. Because I look at them - what can they do to a drunk thug, if called to a mafia fight in a bar? And since nowadays everybody's on the street got guns - they’ll just get shot…

About Mukachevo and Poroshenko's tensions with other oligarchs

Interviewer:
So the attention of the Ukrainian people is focused on events in Mukachevo…

Montyan:
Okay, what’s there to wonder about? The people there always lived from smuggling income because that's the only thing there is - it’s mountains, nothing grows, you can’t live by growing your own food!

The “Right Sector” guys who came there were local, local Transcarpathia guys who came to argue for their share of the smuggling profits. This wasn’t the first time, probably not the hundredth, but this time they were filmed from three directions, they been set up. And who used it later and for what - that's another question. Of course, Poroshenko had his quarrel with Baloga, so he decided to kick Baloga out of smuggling, replacing him with Moskal’ [appointed by Poroshenko to control the Kiev side of the frontline in Lugansk oblast] who was in charge of smuggling in Lugansk area, so now they’re gonna have a smuggling ring clear across the country.
...

And yes, Poroshenko broke up with all his former allies - with Kolomoiski, Pinchuk, Levochkin, Ahmetov, with Firtash – he broke up with all other oligarchs. I guess he stays in power because of American support, for now, but we'll see how it goes, especially the since America traded Ukraine to Russia in exchange for Iran, so we’ll see what happens.

About Americans trading Ukraine to Russia in exchange for Iran, and pushing Constitutional changes demanded in Minsk-2 through Rada Parliament

Interviewer:
How do you have this information?

Montyan:
Haven’t you seen Nuland and Payett’s performance in the parliament, [and heard of their trips to Moscow]? Have you read what the Minsk agreements [they forced Rada to accept]?

Agreements say “full amnesty for everyone, decentralization and all that stuff” - yeah, sure, that they should've done it a year ago, this decentralization should have been done from the beginning, and it was everything the rebel republics wanted in the first place...

But what does it look like to the crazy nationalists, who were sent to die there - 50,000 of them had been killed, they have been brainwashed with completely opposite rhetoric? Now, of course, they scream “betrayal”. It’s just as we've been telling them all along - these patriotic shouts from Rada are only necessary to steal the military budgets. They didn't believe us, and now Poroshenko and his buddies turned out to be “traitors” all of a sudden. 287 traitors in Parliament - listened to their foreign masters and accepted the constitutional change! I ask the nationalists - haven't you read what they accepted in Minsk in the first place?

Interviewer:
So okay, another question about the changes in the Constitution, that according to you, were pushed through by Americans, they imply…

Montyan:
Yes, yes, but that does not matter. The Constitution is just the icing on top of the cake. If the Constitution isn't based on normal civil and criminal law, and local government, and local laws, this is not a Constitution - just a piece of paper that people wipe their feet and other body parts on. So all of these other changes do not matter because they would not work just like the current Constitution doesn't work.

It's all a circus - so Americans pushed through Minsk-2 [to throw a bone to the rebels] - amnesty, self-government, etc. Which, by the way, is going to lead to other regions demanding autonomy as well. Everybody will start to shout - Odessa, Kharkov - “Why do the [accursed] separatists get self-government and we don't? Why do we have to give all the money to Kiev?”. That's going to happen in all the regions, because that's logical - why would Donetsk and Lugansk get real self-government but not Lvov or Dnepropetrovk?

...

About new Kiev government "fighting corruption"

Interviewer:
So we hear on the mass media about fighting corruption, how the government is fighting it so hard and so dedicated... So what is that about? What had been achieved?

Montyan:
There are no achievements - corruption is winning by huge margin. The “fight with corruption” is not about removing corruption, but to be able to participate in it. People that are being kicked out are those who are not fitting in the current “usurper” government. They’re being replaced by Poroshenko's collaborators who are willing to share more. That's all that’s going on.

....
Interviewer:

What about the anti-corruption committee, what can you say there?

Montyan:

Well, as usual, those people also want corruption money. You know, during the Maidan revolution they fought not against corruption, bit against not being among those benefiting from it. Well, apart from a few idealists who already got disappointed and left, the rest were fighting to be part of corruption. And if they did not make it [to the money sources] yet, they are fighting to get in there [by forming new “anti-corruption” shakedown structures].


About the claims that Maidan revolution brought better "civil society"

Interviewer:

One lawyer that we both know has said that after the Maidan revolution there were two positive things - lots of bad, but two things are good: there is more freedom of speech in the country, and there are beginnings of a civil society.

Montyan:

Well, you know Maidan idiots will never be cured. What kind of freedom of speech is he talking about? I have no idea. Even if we talk about journalist Kotsaba, who simply recorded a [Youtube] video addressing the president and he's being tried for treason and for interfering with the armed forces...

And as far civil society, what kind of civil society is he talking about? If Maidan idiots are ready to kill anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion - what kind of civil society is that? Excuse me, if people are ready to KILL simply for your neighbor having a different opinion, we are degrading! We degraded to Stalin’s times, and even before that, into the times of the Inquisition! But I understand that the poor idiots are not able to claim that the any there are any real positive developments, so they claim spiritual improvements. But even spiritually or legally you can not claim things like that.

So those who have courage to admit that they have destroyed the country by their own hands have admitted it, and the rest say things like that. And of course the funny thing is lawyers supporting the coup - that shows the level of legal understanding we have among out my not-so-respected colleagues. And now they're surprised that the courts are doing whatever they want, the cops aren’t doing their job at all, and the prosecutor's office is virtually absent.

...
As far as Kotsaba, he's in jail, and he will stay in jail as long as the usurpers are in power. That last day in court was extremely impressive - the witness was probably shell shocked or something, a military guy. Screaming, jumping at [Kotsaba’s] cage, shouting “if had a gun I would kill you right here”. And those people are among us, people like that guy, they are ready to kill just for having a different opinion. The judges - they simply ran the show and were happy that Kotsaba’s still in jail.
...

And as far as what it decent civil society should look like - people should understand their responsibility and their ownership of our common society, of their houses and of the state as a whole. And the revolutionaries that we got running the “student revolution” did not understand the revolution can’t start from the top. You can replace just the top of the pyramid, [but] you can't build a pyramid from the top down. If you can't agree with your neighbors to change lighting in your common stairwell, how can you run a country of 45 million people?!

All thought “we jump at the Maidan and the Europeans will solve everything for us”. Europeans solved everything only for themselves! … Civil society implies responsibility - what responsibility the people from the “revolution of dignity” had? They didn't think about the consequences of their actions! When people asked them “Okay, you kick out Yanki - who will replace him? If you were president, what would you do?” - they said nothing, because apart from jumping at the Maidan they didn't know anything. The extent of their organizing talents is gathering tires and setting them on fire. That’s all they’re capable of.

About the possibility of another "people's revolution"

Interviewer:

So about the Maidan of 2013-2014, they call it “The Revolution of Dignity”, and it was done under the pretense that the Ukrainian people are very freedom-loving and that they rose up against the dictator Yanukovich, but the events in Ukraine right now are probably dozens of times worse than what happened under yanukovich, so why don't people rise up?

Montyan:

Because State Department and Nuland didn't bring the funds and cookies, and oligarchs didn't help it with money and media support. As they say “the popular revolutions not sanctioned by the State Department aren’t real and should not be followed”. Everybody in there was organized by our oligarchs and by the US State Department and only the dumbest people still believe that was “a people's revolution” and not an engineered coup. So now there's no money, nobody supports [another revolution] in the media, and moreover if you talk too much you can get shot or kidnapped.

I don't think another revolution can happen. Yes, all the oligarchs are pissed at Poroshenko, but they would probably just kill him instead of risking another revolution and destroying the rest of their own assets and factories. That's what I told them of Yanik - you didn't like him, why didn’t you just shoot him? Why did you have to destroy the country?
...





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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns. But by god, the USA sure keeps trying!

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Friday, August 14, 2015 3:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SITREP
Quote:

The Russia media is reporting that today Donetsk was hit by a record 800 artillery shells. The Telmanovo suburb was hit particularly hard, but the shelling was also very violent in the airport region. Furthermore, DNR intelligence services have reported a steady movement of Ukronazi forces towards the line of contact. These forces include tanks and artillery systems, even multiple rocket launchers. Yesterday, a group of 8 tanks backed by armoured personnel carriers attempted to attack Novorussian positions, but there were beat back. Two Ukronazi tanks were destroyed. Does that mean that a junta attack is imminent?

Maybe.

The logical conclusion would be that yes, indeed, an attack is imminent and that the current Ukronazi attacked are probing attack, reconnaissance by fire, to test the Novorussian defenses. It makes no sense at all the bring in more and more forces and then keep the in the field doing nothing. But then, the junta has done so many illogical and plain stupid things during this war that I would not put it past them to just move forces and order shelling to, say, “impress” the British Defense Secretary. This is a time tested Ukronazi policy: every time some high ranking western official shows up on Kiev, they beg for money and show their “magnificent” resolve to “defend Europe against the Russian hordes”. Shelling civilians is usually how this resolve is demonstrated by the Ukronazis.

Still, even though it may sound like we are crying wolf, we should keep on reporting that the junta forces are poised for an attack regardless of whether this attack actually materializes or not, if only because that is yet another direct violation of even the very first provisions of M2A which, as I have been saying for weeks now, is dead, dead, dead, dead and dead. The only reason why so many pretend that it is not is because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate. Still, M2A was stillborn and never had a chance. As long as a Nazi junta is in power in Kiev there is no hope for peace. None.


http://thesaker.is/news-flash-donetsk-hit-by-over-800-artillery-strike
s
/

No representation is made of its accuracy.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, August 15, 2015 10:27 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Attacks and harrassment of OSCE teams based in Donetsk, and a ramping up of Russian propaganda of supposed Ukrainian army outrages... Could be the groundwork of a new separatist offensive. We'll see.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Poroshenko bans…well, everyone. (including 3 BBC journalists)

Quote:

Petro Poroshenko has just stepped on his western supporters’ narrative of a glorious, free and happy post-Maidan Ukraine, by rather embarrassingly banning a whole slew of people from setting foot in his country – including “at least three” BBC employees. Nobody seems to know why. Either because they are a “threat to national interests” or because they are helping the “terrorists.” The list is vague.

Andrew Roy, the BBC’s foreign editor, said “This is a shameful attack on media freedom,” but the BBC website is burying the story of their own journalists being banned inside another item about how the rebel elections are a “threat to peace.”

The Guardian reports the story but does its best with its headline to give the impression there’s some sanity behind it all…


http://off-guardian.org/2015/09/17/poroshenko-bans-well-everyone/

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, September 21, 2015 7:07 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Poroshenko bans…well, everyone. (including 3 BBC journalists)


Old, out of date news. Kiev has removed the BBC journalists and several other foreign journalists from the sanctions list.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, September 21, 2015 11:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Old, out of date news. Kiev has removed the BBC journalists and several other foreign journalists from the sanctions list.


Oh, so you KNEW about the sanctions list on foreign journalists when it happened but chose not to mention it here because it was ... what, irrelevant to the state of freedom in Ukraine?

You mean, you engaged in fact selection because there was a story that wasn't very flattering to your pet nation?

Yeah, I knew about that a while back, too.

I just wanted to see how objective you were being about Ukraine.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Tuesday, September 22, 2015 5:20 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Oh, so you KNEW about the sanctions list on foreign journalists when it happened but chose not to mention it here because it was ...

Because.. why would I? If I wanted to highlight restrictions on the press in a particular country there are many much worse than Ukraine to talk about. Like Russia. Speaking of which, I seem to have missed your thread on the state of freedom in Russia, where is it?

Quote:

Yeah, I knew about that a while back, too.

Lol, Sig.


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, September 25, 2015 5:57 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


We all know the state of freedom in Russian-occupied Ukraine is terrible, but now it's about to get worse:

Separatists order UN agencies to leave - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34355394

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, September 25, 2015 8:03 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Oh, so you KNEW about the sanctions list on foreign journalists when it happened but chose not to mention it here because it was an unflattering picture- SIGNY

Because.. why would I? - KPO

Yes, indeed! Why would you? You have no interest in being objective, and so in a thread about the state of freedom in Ukraine, you choose to ignore significant facts which don't forward your argument. Because god forbid you should be even-handed!

What a tool. I know you try to present yourself as honest, but you just admitted you have no reason to be.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, September 25, 2015 9:05 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I didn't ignore any facts, I only pointed out facts that you dishonestly omitted. Only in your warped mind does that make me 'un-objective'.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Took you that long to come up with a reply?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, September 26, 2015 12:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So Ukraine is not the bastion of "freedom" that people might like to believe. How could it be? Their idea of creating a nation is to shell their fellow citizens to death!

In fact, you hear so little about Kiev and freedom, or Kiev and reform, or Kiev and development in the western press that one is tempted to think that things aren't going very well in that direction. The OTHER things you don't hear about ... the jailed/ sanctioned/ assassinated journalists; the opposition politicians getting intimidated and beaten up; young men fleeing the draft; and right-wing expressing its displeasure by throwing hand-grenades into crowds, or engaging in firefights in the mountains of Transcarpathia, or attacking local governments.

At this point, I hear several things about the Kiev-end of Ukraine. On the one hand, I read that there is seething dissatisfaction. https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/08/27/stunning-poll-results-show
ing-ukrainians-dissatisfied-with-government-economy-and-war
/

Former enlistees, pensioners, rightwingers, moms, democracy-and-reform advocates are all hot about

The rise in utility prices http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/electricity-alcohol-prices-sh
oot-up-on-sept-1-as-do-government-payouts-396931.html
,

the fall of the hryvnia and rampant inflation http://www.unian.info/economics/1134672-sp-lowers-ukraine-foreign-curr
ency-ratings.html
,

the lack of reform http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/investors-dissatisfied-with-s
low-pace-of-reforms-in-ukraine-396818.html


The shabby treatment of enlistees and veterans, and

(In the case of the right wing) lack of advancing their agenda.

OTOH, people in Kiev have reported that folks are indeed strolling the boulevards, eating ice cream, and that the constant drumbeat for war in the Donbas has faded.

Supposedly, the Ukrainian big guns have fallen silent: For the first time in over a year, Kiev isn't shelling its eastern compatriots.

Poroshenko has not only been schooled by Merkel and Hollande, but by NATO: They require him to abide by Minsk-2.

Tactical retreat: NATO for the first time criticizes Ukraine’s government
https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/tactical-retreat-nato-for-
the-first-time-criticizes-ukraines-government
/

Possibly as a response, Russia has renewed its shipments of gas to Ukraine. I think I see how this is being played by Russia: Fail to implement Minsk-2, and you will be taken apart economically. Adhere to Minsk-2, and you will be allowed to survive.

Poroshenko has a several tigers by the tail.

The first is the right wing: They were useful in getting rid of Yanukovich, but now that Minsk-2 requires decentralization and official contact with the DPR and the LPR, it's awfully hard to put them back into the box. And they have guns, and they've been shooting at the army and throwing hand-grenades to express their dissatisfaction.

The second is his external investors. Much was made of the deal that was supposed to give Ukraine's bondholders (creditors) a 20% "haircut" along with an extended payback period and higher interest rate (resulting in the same total monies over a longer period of time ... http://agora-dialogue.com/2015/08/29/ukraine-has-reached-a-debt-deal-n
ow-what
/ like what Greece was asking for) but that deal is in danger of falling apart, for two reasons:

Russia refuses to be part of the deal. They were not part of negotiations, and they consider (rightly, IMHO) their $3B bonds to be GOVERNMENT bonds, not commercial bonds, guaranteed by the government of Kiev. These, by international law, cannot be reduced in payment.

A second group of creditors representing 25% plan to veto the deal. There is a difference of opinion between the bondholders represented by Franklin Templeton (the majority) and "others".

The oligarchs. It can't be overstated that the oligarchs are looking to expand their power, or at least not lose too much. Most oligarchs have their own private army, their own region where they can smuggle etc. Poroshenko has already bearded the most infamous - Kolomoisky. On the other hand, he's going to have to do that many more times to assert political control over Ukraine.

Russia. No, Russia has not "invaded" Ukraine, but they are allowing arms and men to cross the border, providing humanitarian aid to Donetsk and Lugansk, sending in some specialists and troops (how many in unknown) and making an otherwise unbearable situation in eastern and southern Ukraine more bearable. Russia is a creditor, and a supplier of natural gas. Fortunately for Poroshenko, Russia seems to be interested in a united- but federalized- Ukraine, rather than a broken one.

The EU. Germany, France, and Brussels are fed up with Kiev, and fed up with USA policy in Kiev. It's costing them a lot of money, which they can ill-afford given that they're already slipping back into recession. They want PEACE, dammit, even if they have to stick it together with duct tape and crazy glue.

Finally, the self-named Dontesk People's Republic (DPR) and Lugansk People's Republic (LPR) aren't very happy about Minsk-2 either. Having their civilian centers relentlessly shelled for over a year, killing 9,000+ (some say German intel puts the death toll at 50,000+) and critical infrastructure destroyed, with over a million fleeing to Russia, has not exactly endeared Kiev to the rebels. RUSSIA is putting significant pressure on DPR/LPR to move forward with Minsk-2, but the rebels still seem to want to hold their own elections. Gee, I wonder why?

Anyway, figuring out how this all shakes out will need more thought.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, September 26, 2015 7:59 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Took you that long to come up with a reply?


Dissecting your nonsense posts is entertaining, but way down the list of important things in my life.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, September 26, 2015 10:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Uh huh. Right.

My tagline ... it isn't a wish or a hope, it's an OBSERVATION. If you have to keep people in line through relentless violence, you aren't creating a society. And whatever it is that you've created, it won't last very long.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 27, 2015 6:38 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Who asked about your tagline? Ha, communists. With your lofty moral pronouncements, that you use exclusively to damn the West, and every Western-aligned country, ignoring the (much worse) actions of Russia, and every Russia-aligned country. Why should anyone take you, or your lofty moral pronouncements seriously? Still fighting the Cold War, and still as hypocritical as ever.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 27, 2015 7:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Who asked about your tagline? Ha, communists. With your lofty moral pronouncements, that you use exclusively to damn the West, and every Western-aligned country, ignoring the (much worse) actions of Russia, and every Russia-aligned country. Why should anyone take you, or your lofty moral pronouncements seriously? Still fighting the Cold War, and still as hypocritical as ever.

It's not personal. It's just war.



Huh, seems like YOU'RE the one who's "still fighting the cold war". Because all you can do is ignore the (much worse) actions of the west. Aren't you the one who said that the Novorossians shelled THEMSELVES?

REALLY???

At least I'm not as big of a hypocrite as you.

Or as big of a liar, either.





--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 27, 2015 7:08 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Video: Azov mob storms Kharkiv city council

http://off-guardian.org/2015/09/23/video-azov-mob-storms-kharkiv-city-
council
/

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, September 27, 2015 7:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just as an aside, you posted this thread

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60015 "Russia has a lot to answer for in Syria"

Was it RUSSIA that was active in Syria from 2006 until present? Was it Russia that trained, armed, and funded jihadists in Jordan, to fight in Syria? Was it Russia that endlessly thumped the vanishingly small-to-nonexistant "moderate rebels" in Syria, whose image simply acted as a beard for transfer of arms to ISIS?

Dude, you did exactly as I predicted: You and our idiot buddies laughed like hyenas on a trash dump of fact-free personal insult and fact-free propaganda. Even my prediction didn't seem to dissuade you from your internally-driven mandate of behaving like zombies.

Wow. Good for you! At least you're consistent! Hypocritical, but consistent!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, September 28, 2015 5:57 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Just as an aside, you posted this thread

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60015 "Russia has a lot to answer for in Syria"

Was it RUSSIA that was active in Syria from 2006 until present? Was it Russia...


That thread laid out exactly what Russia did, and is still doing. Unable to challenge those assertions you boycotted the thread. Everything that you've read in your anti-US blogs you should be posting there, not here. If anywhere.

Quote:

Aren't you the one who said that the Novorossians shelled THEMSELVES?

REALLY???


I don't go around talking about non-existent nationalities, so probably not. But if we're talking about the Russian army and the Russian controlled separatists killing civilians in eastern Ukraine, then absolutely. They killed nearly 500 in the flattening and 'liberation' of Debaltseve alone (an offensive I can remember you and kiki giddily cheerleading at the time).


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, September 28, 2015 6:25 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.



Grozny, Russia, 2000:






Welcome to Mr Putin's Grozny - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/welcome-to-mr-putins-gr
ozny-719434.html


Quote:

It is the first large city to be destroyed by military action in Europe since 1945. Two months after the Russian army captured Grozny, the capital of Chechnya and once home to 400,000 people, its ruins look like pictures of Stalingrad or Dresden immediately after the Second World War. Russian shells and bombs have turned apartment blocks into grey concrete sandwiches, one floor collapsed on top of another.

...

When several long-range, ground-to-ground missiles plummeted into a Grozny marketplace last October, killing some 200 people, Mr Putin simply denied that it had happened. He showed no signs of embarrassment when the official Russian military spokesman blithely confirmed the attack a few hours later.

...

Critics of Mr Putin during his visit to Britain have focused on killings and torture by Russian forces in Chechnya. This tends to obscure the fact that for the first time in 55 years, a whole European city has been destroyed -deliberately, by its own government.



It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, September 28, 2015 11:45 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Welcome to Mr Putin's Grozny"



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

The Second Chechen War was launched by the Russian Federation, starting 26 August 1999, in response to the Invasion of Dagestan by the Islamic International Brigade (IIB).



In war, it really matters who started it. And the Islamists who decided to pick a fight with Russia probably should have given it a second thought. But I'm sure the BBC would never leave out important information like that ...

... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ...




SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, September 29, 2015 8:45 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

In war, it really matters who started it. And the Islamists who decided to pick a fight with Russia probably should have given it a second thought.

Truly wondrous hypocrisy from someone who howls in outrage at relatively small numbers of civilian casualties killed by Ukraine's forces. When it comes to Russia killing tens of thousands and levelling an entire city with indiscriminate bombing - you are all tough talk and "those Chechens had it coming".

Quote:

... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

Yep. Seems about right.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, January 7, 2016 8:19 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


"How Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Sabotaged the Reform Process"

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/how-ukraine-s-pro
secutor-general-sabotaged-the-reform-process



----------------------------------------------------
SIGNY: "You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns."

Grozny, Russia, 2000:

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Friday, January 8, 2016 10:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yes, I believe I mentioned Grozny. I believe I said that the results were "Biblical"- "not one stone standing on top of another".

As I understand it, the city was surrounded, and people were given a chance to leave but had to pass thru checkpoints. I'm sure there were those who couldn't leave, by reason of disability or perhaps being held hostage by the terrorists who had taken over Grozny. For those, it was indeed a tragedy. For the terrorists in Grozny- like those who killed 200 young schoolchildren in Beslan - not so much.

Yanno, it's funny, you hate Russia so much that even when they are fighting what EVERYONE (except you!) sees as an international scourge of religiously-propelled barbarism ... EVEN THEN you manage to criticize them!

I think your ethics are so twisted by hatred of Russia ... it seeps into every post and every thread ... that you literally can't see anything but "bad Russia".

I tried to get a discussion going on a direct comparison between Syria and Ukraine. That way, we could tease apart answers to "Who is a terrorist?" and "When is violence morally acceptable?" because we could compare events which might arouse opposite sympathies: If the rebels in Donbas are "terrorists", what about the rebels in Syria? If the assistance that Russia is providing in Ukraine is an "invasion", what about the assistance that Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the USA are providing in Syria?" "What do we do if the process of voting does not result is a "liberal democracy"? Are national borders sacrosanct? What about separation movements?

Yanno, a good way to disentangle our immediate sympathies from our ethics.

But YOU wouldn't have it. Oh, no! A reasoned, dispassionate examination of similar situations involving different actors .... So not your cup of tea! You'd rather go off, half-cocked, all full of righteous anger for SOME people. God forbid you should ever examine your sympathies and morals and find out that you were wrong 50% of the time!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, January 8, 2016 11:12 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WHY I ABHOR RUSSIA
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60306

Yes, please- do explain.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, January 14, 2016 1:46 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


The human rights situation in Russian/separatist-occupied eastern Ukraine continues to be far worse than in the rest of Ukraine - 100+ news websites blocked in Luhansk: https://globalvoices.org/2016/01/14/ukrainian-separatists-block-100-ne
ws-websites-in-lugansk-peoples-republic
/

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Thursday, January 14, 2016 2:16 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

I'm sure there were those who couldn't leave, by reason of disability or perhaps being held hostage by the terrorists who had taken over Grozny.

Even if that were true, and I notice you provide no evidence, that makes it ok for Putin to go ahead and carpet bomb the whole city?

Quote:

For the terrorists in Grozny- like those who killed 200 young schoolchildren in Beslan

Any tears for the hundreds if not thousands of children killed by Putin's carpet bombing of Grozny?

Quote:

That way, we could tease apart answers to "Who is a terrorist?" and "When is violence morally acceptable?"

You and I have both been on these boards a long time and I've had these discussions with you before. You change your definition of 'terrorism' from post to post, and your position on separatism and national borders and the right of self-determination changes with whichever way the wind is blowing (or rather whichever way supports Russia, and damns the USA). In 2014 when Russia was annexing Crimea and fomenting separatist war in Ukraine you were all for separatism, and peoples' right to self-determination. But in 2015 when international attention switched to Syria, and the popular Sunni uprising there, you immediately came out with your firm belief that Russia's campaign to crush the rebels was the best thing ever.

We can debate principles of democracy, national sovereignty, terrorism, the right to self-determination etc, but in 6 months time your positions will have completely changed to be in line with Russia's latest war.

Why debate or have a discussion with someone whose principles are completely fluid?

For the record this was my attempt to have a rational discussion with you on this subject back in 2014:

KPO (2014):
Quote:

Independence/secessionist movements need to be considered on a case by case basis, balancing such priniciples as the right of self-determination, national sovereignty, and the region's unique history. No two situations are the same, and no two people will balance all these factors in the same way. It should be noted that different Western countries have different stances on accepting Kosovo's independence or not.

In the case of Kosovo ethnic Serbs see the land as belonging to their country, but the people living there don't feel they belong to Serbia at all. They are mostly ethnic Albanian, and for nearly 500 years they lived under Muslim, Ottoman control. But the key factor in support for Kosovan independence is the campaign of terror and ethnic cleansing that the Serb government carried out against the ethnic Albanian population in the 90's. The UN ruled that Serbia had carried out a "systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, arsons and severe maltreatments" and cited several war crimes and crimes against humanity including massacres of unarmed men, women and children, and the forced displacement of tens of thousands.

For me personally, I think it's quite harsh to expect the Kosovans to live again under Serbian rule, given the way the Serbian government treated them in the 1990s.



And what was your response?

Signy (2014):
Quote:

And, on what grounds are these movements to be "considered"? Because as far as I can tell, the metric that you apply is: pro-western= good, not pro-western=bad. All of your blah blah blah about history and such is so much rationalization. You don't have a rigorous, well-thought-out view that you could apply equally to all situations; so you'll just grab whatever excuse you need to justify whatever you want to see happen.

In other words, you have a purely self-centered, exceptionalist* view of the world...


And you went on like that, completely ignoring everything I said and eventually quoting some bullshit RT story about mass graves of raped and murdered victims in a poor attempt at false equivalence.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=8

If you can tell me you've grown as a person since this lazy, self-indulgent rant, then maybe we can start again with the discussion. If not, then no thank you.

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Tuesday, January 19, 2016 7:18 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Thanks G, I had to do some digging back through the old threads but at least I've shut up Signy's superior and utterly bullshit "If only someone would have a rational discussion with me" line.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 8:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I would love a rational discussion, but it's not possible with you.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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