REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The State of Freedom in Russia

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Friday, November 3, 2017 11:03
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VIEWED: 1851
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Friday, January 15, 2016 2:10 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


A useful thread to have, with much more to write about than the Ukraine one, it seems to me.

First up, authorities in North-Western Russia burn books said to contain 'anti-Russian' ideology - http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/14/soros-charity-targeted-in-russia-book-b
urning.html


Nope, no scary historical associations there...


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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 7:59 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Russian state-owned news channels spew homophobic pseudo-science and conspiracy theories, linking homosexuality to pedophilia and incest and a Western plot to undermine Russian traditional values - http://www.codastory.com/lgbt-crisis/watching-sodom-in-russia

In case you think I'm exaggerating watch a short clip of the documentary 'Sodom', here - https://twitter.com/CodaStory/status/689516511560470528

From the article:
Quote:

Four years ago, the idea that homosexuality was linked to pedophilia was something that only cropped up in news coverage of the handful of politicians who espoused that view. Now, across the full spectrum of Russian media, that theory is presented as scientific fact.

"First they came for the gays..." Russia's slide into darkness under Putin continues.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:32 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Must... Resist... But... Can't.

So, they have Fox News over there, too?


Jokes.



Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:38 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Must... Resist... But... Can't.

So, they have Fox News over there, too?

Jokes.




That's no joke. And you think ours is bad...

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Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:41 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Russian state-owned news channels spew homophobic pseudo-science and conspiracy theories, linking homosexuality to pedophilia and incest and a Western plot to undermine Russian traditional values - http://www.codastory.com/lgbt-crisis/watching-sodom-in-russia

In case you think I'm exaggerating watch a short clip of the documentary 'Sodom', here - https://twitter.com/CodaStory/status/689516511560470528

From the article:
Quote:

Four years ago, the idea that homosexuality was linked to pedophilia was something that only cropped up in news coverage of the handful of politicians who espoused that view. Now, across the full spectrum of Russian media, that theory is presented as scientific fact.

"First they came for the gays..." Russia's slide into darkness under Putin continues.



I thought it interesting and telling how Siggy would often denigrate Gay rights in what she thought was a hidden way. "I think it long over due..." in one post, then smear them as if they were to blame for "all Obama did was Gay Rights!"

I think you can gauge the maturity of a society by how they treat those outside of "the norm." Russia = Big Fail.

Now let's wait for the tirade of how bad the West treats everyone ... 3... 2... 1...

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Thursday, January 21, 2016 9:26 AM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2015/russia

2015 SCORES
RUSSIA STATUS
Not Free
FREEDOM RATING
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)
6.0
CIVIL LIBERTIES
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)
6
POLITICAL RIGHTS
(1 = BEST, 7 = WORST)
6

RATINGS CHANGE:

Russia’s civil liberties rating declined from 5 to 6 due to expanded media controls, a dramatically increased level of propaganda on state-controlled television, and new restrictions on the ability of some citizens to travel abroad.

OVERVIEW:

The Russian political environment in 2014 was dominated by events in neighboring Ukraine. In February, a mass protest movement—triggered in late 2013 by corrupt, Russian-aligned president Viktor Yanukovych’s refusal to sign an Association Agreement with the European Union (EU)—overcame police violence and forced the unpopular leader to flee to Russia. To discourage any similar movement inside Russia and regain leverage over Ukraine, Russian president Vladimir Putin ordered a military invasion. Crimea was occupied and formally annexed to the Russian Federation in March, and despite Kremlin denials, Russian troops played a role in ongoing separatist violence in Ukraine’s easternmost regions. The intervention was justified with claims that ethnic Russians in Ukraine were threatened by Ukrainian ultranationalists who had supposedly seized power in Kyiv.

While Russia’s relations with Europe and the United States had already been deteriorating, the invasion of Ukraine forced the democratic powers to respond. The United States, the EU, and other allied countries imposed a series of sanctions that targeted individuals around Putin, key companies that support his regime or allegedly manage his illicit wealth, and important economic sectors like banking and energy. The sanctions, combined with plummeting world oil prices and existing economic weaknesses in Russia, helped to fuel capital flight, a dramatically falling ruble, and a deepening budget deficit. Russia’s own countersanctions, targeting European agricultural imports and other goods, only added to the suffering of businesses and consumers.

Faced with international pressure and the rising potential for domestic discontent, the government expanded its control of the media, stepped up a propaganda campaign to justify its actions and vilify its opponents, and cracked down on independent news outlets, particularly online. Journalists, politicians, and family members who sought to investigate the deaths of Russian servicemen in Ukraine encountered bureaucratic obstruction and trumped-up criminal charges. Regional elections in September were tightly controlled from above, with any coherent opposition eliminated. By the end of the year, Russia’s government was increasingly isolated from the international community and struggling to neutralize anticorruption activists and other domestic critics.


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Thursday, October 12, 2017 6:18 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


It's not easy to stand up to Putin:



-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, October 12, 2017 12:05 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


More police brutality!









You must be of Nazi descent, KRAPO.

What, did you Nazi grandparents flee Europe at the end of WWII? That's the only reason that I can think of for your obsession with Russia.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Thursday, October 12, 2017 7:43 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

You must be of Nazi descent, KRAPO.

What, did you Nazi grandparents flee Europe at the end of WWII?


A more interesting (and less nonsensical and hysterical) question is, why does criticism of Russia touch such a nerve for YOU? Do you think criticism of the Spanish government bothers me? Newsflash: it doesn't. And yet criticism of Russia and Putin drives you nuts. Every. Time.

Care to share why that is?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:17 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Because it's propaganda, you dork.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Meanwhile, unlike the fully rabid, who slaver and bite at everything the government waves in front of them ...

... Do ** I ** care about what goes on in Russia? Not one bit. Which is about as much as I care about what goes in in Spain.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:35 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

... Do ** I ** care about what goes on in Russia? Not one bit.



Then why the hell are you digging around in old threads to post in when no one asked you, comrade?

It's not propaganda IF IT'S TRUE.


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Thursday, October 12, 2017 11:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hey asswipe - IT WAS AT THE TOP OF THE SECTION WHEN I CHECKED.

More important - why are YOU digging around in old threads, Nazi hag?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Friday, October 13, 2017 6:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

What, did you Nazi grandparents flee Europe at the end of WWII? - SIGNY
I note that you didn't deny that your grandparents were Nazis, so it must be true.


Quote:

Do you think criticism of the Spanish government bothers me? Newsflash: it doesn't.- KRAPO


Yep. THAT is abundantly clear! Police brutality in Spain doesn't bother you. Police brutality in Germany doesn't bother you. Police brutality in Britain doesn't bother you, and neither does police brutality in the USA. What;s clear is that the ONLY nation that you look at is Russia! It's "Russia!" morning, noon, and night. Only RUSSIAN! police brutality bothers you. Only RUSSIAN! flaws get your (very selective) attention!

So why the laser focus on Russia? I only know of three kinds of people with your raprt and exclusive attention to Russia:

Those of eastern European descent, whose pro-Nazi families fled Europe after WWII. And there are a lot of them: Nazi-sympathizing Hungarian contingents in Canada, for example, whose grandparents has pictures of Adolph Hitler hung up in their bedroom. Anti-Russian Poles in Britain, who blame everything on Russia instead of their own stupidity.

Russian expats and Russian liberals, who blame Russia for everything.

Deep state trolls.

So, which one are you?

*****

In any case, since you admitted your deep and abiding bias, it should be clear by now to everyone that you have no moral standards whatsoever, since you apply them with utter hypocrisy.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, October 13, 2017 4:23 PM

G

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Only RUSSIAN! flaws get your (very selective) attention!



I seem to remember a thread about Syria that KPO was active in... do you remember that one? The one where he cleaned your clock on a daily basis?

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:I only know of three kinds of people with your raprt and exclusive attention to Russia:

Those of eastern European descent, whose pro-Nazi families fled Europe after WWII. And there are a lot of them: Nazi-sympathizing Hungarian contingents in Canada, for example, whose grandparents has pictures of Adolph Hitler hung up in their bedroom.

Anti-Russian Poles in Britain, who blame everything on Russia instead of their own stupidity.

Russian expats and Russian liberals, who blame Russia for everything.

Deep state trolls.

So, which one are you?



You said 3 and then named 4... ummm... that's actually one more than 3.

Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

In any case, since you admitted your deep and abiding bias, it should be clear by now to everyone that you have no moral standards whatsoever, since you apply them with utter hypocrisy.



I have missed how much fun it is to watch you fill your diaper!

==============================

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Friday, October 13, 2017 4:45 PM

THGRRI


Freedom in Russia? No such thing.






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Friday, October 13, 2017 5:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I like to lie and troll because ... well, that's what I am!



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Friday, October 13, 2017 7:57 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
... Do ** I ** care about what goes on in Russia? Not one bit. Which is about as much as I care about what goes in in Spain.


Really? Because in the referendums thread you posted this:

Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/catalonia-and-spain-map-out-their
-next-moves-after-chaotic-vote-for-independence/2017/10/02/d41307b8-a6fa-11e7-9a98-07140d2eed02_story.html

2 million citizens in the Catalonia region voted overwhelmingly in a controversial, chaotic referendum to declare independence from Spain

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/catalonia-votes-in-illegal-independenc
e-referendum.html

The outbreaks of police violence at a handful of polling locations served to heighten tensions in the Catalan capital

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia-heartland/
from-batons-to-barbecues-catalan-vote-exposes-police-divisions-idUSKCN1C61KU

From batons to barbecues, Catalan vote exposes police divisions

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/madrids-brutal-tactics-have
-increased-the-divide/article19786645.ece

Madrid’s brutal tactics have increased the divide



You and Siggy crack me up. When it comes to human rights abuses, Russia is "too far away" for you to care about, but Spain isn't

Quote:

Because it's propaganda, you dork.
The second person on this board who's instantly driven mad by any criticism of Russia

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Friday, October 13, 2017 8:11 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Those of eastern European descent, whose pro-Nazi families fled Europe after WWII.


Oh God, you're expanding on your Nazi descendant theory...

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 14, 2017 12:28 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
... Do ** I ** care about what goes on in Russia? Not one bit. Which is about as much as I care about what goes in in Spain.

Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:

Really? Because in the referendums thread you posted this:
accumulated topical items of information, posted without comment

Oh, the horror!




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 12:32 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So I have a question for you, krappo.

It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing, their citizens - AS IF THEY WERE TOTALITARIAN STATES THAT HAD TO HIDE THE FACTS.

Why are you so comfortable with that?






Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Those of eastern European descent, whose pro-Nazi families fled Europe after WWII. - SIGNY

Oh God, you're expanding on your Nazi descendant theory... - KRAPO

Yeah, truth hurts, doesn't it?



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:57 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing,


And you're still going with this "government propaganda" line. The implication is that:

1. The Guardian newspaper is US/British government propaganda
2. Government propaganda is bad

Statement 1 is complete fantasy. Statement 2 is absolutely true and makes you a hypocrite for reading RT.



-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 14, 2017 5:57 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing,


And you're still going with this "government propaganda" line. The implication is that:

1. The Guardian newspaper is US/British government propaganda
2. Government propaganda is bad

Statement 1 is complete fantasy. Statement 2 is absolutely true and makes you a hypocrite for reading RT.



-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 14, 2017 6:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Hmmm ... I said US and British government propaganda, which you failed to address.

Swing and a miss. Strike one.

Here's that question again:

It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing, their citizens - AS IF THEY WERE TOTALITARIAN STATES THAT HAD TO HIDE THE FACTS.

Why are you so comfortable with that?





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, October 14, 2017 7:20 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hmmm ... I said US and British government propaganda, which you failed to address.


Err, yes I did, I said that calling The Guardian government propaganda is complete fantasy, and I called you a hypocrite.

My post is right there above yours, everyone can see it kiki.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 14, 2017 9:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Hmmm ... I said US and British government propaganda, which you failed to address.

Swing and a miss. Strike two.

Here's that question again:

It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing, their citizens - AS IF THEY WERE TOTALITARIAN STATES THAT HAD TO HIDE THE FACTS.

Why are you so comfortable with that?





Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.


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Sunday, October 15, 2017 7:38 AM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Oh great, I've broke kiki again.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, October 15, 2017 8:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

It's obvious you're completely unfazed by the supposedly democratic US and British governments lying to, and propagandizing, their citizens - AS IF THEY WERE TOTALITARIAN STATES THAT HAD TO HIDE THE FACTS. - KIKI

Oh great, I've broke kiki again. - KRAPO

Another deflection. Way to go, KRAPO! If you keep at it long enough, EVERYONE will get to see what a great moral snake-pit you are!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:15 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Another deflection

Deflection from what? I've already answered kiki's point. You two are loons

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, October 16, 2017 2:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

And you're still going with this "government propaganda" line. The implication is that:
1. The Guardian newspaper is US/British government propaganda
Statement 1 is complete fantasy.

Hmmm ... I said US and British government propaganda, which you failed to address. Simply referring to The Guardian - as a single example of something you presume is independent - fails to address the topic of government propaganda at all.

Here's a simple bit of logic. I hope you can follow it (though given your history I suspect it'll be quite a struggle for you).

For the sake of the argument, let's suppose that Russia propagandizes its people through the media, for example, through Izvestiya. And let's also assume that Nezavisimaya Gazeta (a private, pro-opposition publication in Russia) is meant to counter that propaganda. Does the presence of Nezavisimaya Gazeta eliminate the fact of Russian government propaganda?

To be explicit and draw the comparisons that I think you'll fail to come to on your own: both the US and British governments propagandize their citizens through pronouncements, announcements, reports, press conferences, statements, media releases, anonymous sources - virtually anything that comes out of the government, but especially if it comes out through a politician - is geared toward steering us to a political goal. Not only that, but the government exerts power over the media, squelching unfavorable stories. And sometimes the government actually writes the stories that are broadcast or printed as if they were independent news.

The lonely small voice of The Guardian doesn't negate the overwhelming blare of the government - and its propaganda. Just as the voice of Nezavisimaya Gazeta doesn't negate the dominance of Izvestiya.

Quote:

2. Government propaganda is bad
Statement 2 is absolutely true and makes you a hypocrite for reading RT.

I don't read RT. Do you? I mean, you're so unquenchably OBSESSED with Russian and Putin, I can't think of how you'd even stay away.

Aside from that, you've failed to answer the question. Again. Government propaganda is everywhere. If propaganda is bad - as you claim - why are you so comfortable with YOUR government doing it? Even more, why do you parrot it so uncritically here?


So, yet .AGAIN. you've failed to answer the question. That's another swing and a miss. Strike three.


You're out.




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Monday, October 16, 2017 6:29 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
For the sake of the argument, let's suppose that Russia propagandizes its people


"For the sake of argument, let's suppose the sky is blue..."

Quote:

the US and British governments propagandize their citizens through pronouncements, announcements, reports, press conferences, statements, media releases

This is a creative way to argue that the US and British governments use propaganda, kiki.

Let's examine it. All governments are expected to make public statements from time to time, nothing bad in that - although, yes, they are politicians with an agenda. Does that make it propaganda? Yes and no. Mostly no. The government makes its statements and releases its press releases - but how does that then reach its audience? Well, a very few people may go straight to government websites, but for most of us it comes via a free media. So the government makes its statements, and the media delivers those statements to their audience, along with commentary, critique, alternative viewpoints etc. All of this is done outside of the government's control. The government doesn't control the flow of information, therefore it is not able to propagandise. (This is how the system works at its best. It doesn't always work at its best of course, but it's broadly how it works all the same)

Quote:

Quote:

2. Government propaganda is bad
Statement 2 is absolutely true and makes you a hypocrite for reading RT.

I don't read RT.


Forgive me if I don't believe you You used to post RT links here, until you were given a hard time for it. Have you seen the error of your ways?

Quote:

Even more, why do you parrot it so uncritically here?

What does it mean, in your view, to parrot something "uncritically"?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 21, 2017 3:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.

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Saturday, October 21, 2017 4:12 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?

Not the government. God help us if that ever changes.

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.


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Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:21 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?


Evil corporations, blah, blah, blah.

Kikster, you've taken your eye off the ball. What happened to the evil US and British governments propagandising their populations? Are you giving up on that point now and pivoting onto something else?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 21, 2017 7:30 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Why can't you answer the questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.



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Sunday, October 22, 2017 6:51 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


I did answer the question, I said "not the government". We can have a more in depth discussion of free media vs state media (deserves a thread of its own really), but first we should acknowledge that you've completely moved away from your argument about Western governments propagandising their populations and, it would seem, conceded the point.

Unless you're going to argue that Western media is actually state-controlled?

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Sunday, October 22, 2017 7:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Why can't you answer the questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.




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Monday, October 23, 2017 2:52 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Keep on spamming kiki, that will win you the argument

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Monday, October 23, 2017 3:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Your inability to answer two extremely simple questions is remarkable. And despite the fact that you have nothing at all to say about press freedoms in the west, which is close by and well-known, you presume to opine about Russia, which is distant and obscure.


Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.




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Tuesday, October 24, 2017 8:33 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?


But does this relate to the debate we were in the middle of having - about whether the US and the UK propagandise their citizens?

This should be good

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

... does ...the US and the UK propagandise their citizens?- KRAPO
What a stupid question.
Of course they do.

Next?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Wednesday, October 25, 2017 9:06 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Next indeed.

Here's a good video which explains the moment in 2011 when Putin's attitude towards the USA (and Hillary Clinton especially) shifted to adversarial:



-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:35 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Here is your government completely innocent of propagandizing you.




Iraq inquiry: Tony Blair told ‘days before invasion’ WMD had been dismantled
http: // www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/6652310/Iraq-inquir
y-Tony-Blair-told-days-before-invasion-WMD-had-been-dismantled.html



Tony Blair would invade Iraq regardless of WMD
https: // www youtube com/watch?v=UNiDQM-mT0o


http: //www youtube com/watch?v=imhbtk1FiJs

0:22
There is no doubt that Iraq poses a threat in respect to weapons of mass destruction.
0:36
He is without any question still trying to develop that chemical, biological, potentially nuclear capability ...
1:01
To allow Saddam to use the weapons he has, or to get the weapons he wants, would be an act of gross irresponsibility ...
1:17
I am quite sure, and I think most people are, that he has these weapons, and that the people and the documentation exist to show that.
1:25
And the truth is, this issue of weapons of mass destruction IS a real threat ...
1:37
If we are wrong ... that is something I am sure history will forgive.
1:53
I believe the intelligence we received is correct.
2:05
Like, most intelligence agencies in the world, certainly DID believe ...




HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Friday, October 27, 2017 10:47 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



And your inability to answer two extremely simple questions is remarkable. And despite the fact that you have nothing at all to say about press freedoms in the west, which is close by and well-known, you presume to opine about Russia, which is distant and obscure.


Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.





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Friday, October 27, 2017 4:43 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Here is your government completely innocent of propagandizing you.

Iraq inquiry: Tony Blair


You still think Tony Blair is in government

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 28, 2017 3:18 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Your inability to answer two extremely simple questions is remarkable. And despite the fact that you have nothing at all to say about press freedoms in the west, which is close by and well-known, you presume to opine about Russia, which is distant and obscure.


Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.





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Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:25 PM

KPO

Anti-Russia before it was cool.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?


But does this relate to the debate we were in the middle of having - about whether the US/UK governments propagandise their citizens?

Oh look, KPO can do copy and paste as well

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521


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Saturday, October 28, 2017 7:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You can do copy and paste but you STILL can't answer two extremely simple questions. In fact, your inability to answer two extremely simple questions after all this time is remarkable. Do you LIKE making a fool of yourself?

And despite the fact that you have nothing at all to say about press freedoms in the west, which is close by and well-known, you presume to opine about Russia, which is distant and obscure.


Why can't you answer these two questions?

Our media is 'free'? Who owns it? In whose interest does it act?




Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.






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