REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

New Holiday For Canada

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:46
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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 7:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:


The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?

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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 7:42 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:


The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?



The impact on First Nations peoples was cultural genocide. Children were taken from their families and put into these places to destroy families and by extension cultures.
These schools and the majority were run by the Catholic church took languages away by beating them out of the children when they were heard them spoken. They were allowed NO contact with their parents and extended family while in these places.

Now, on to your other question. I didn't know that the Feds were going to do this but I think it is a good idea. A lot of whites have no idea what these places did.

You, yourself have proven this time and time again. In the US, you have no idea what this has done.

My own family on my father's side has experience with the system down there.

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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Same thing happened in Australia and in Ireland under British rule. If you want to destroy the culture, wipe out the language.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 8:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:

The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?

The impact on First Nations peoples was cultural genocide. Children were taken from their families and put into these places to destroy families and by extension cultures.
These schools and the majority were run by the Catholic church took languages away by beating them out of the children when they were heard them spoken. They were allowed NO contact with their parents and extended family while in these places.

Now, on to your other question. I didn't know that the Feds were going to do this but I think it is a good idea. A lot of whites have no idea what these places did.

You, yourself have proven this time and time again. In the US, you have no idea what this has done.

My own family on my father's side has experience with the system down there.

Did the same thing happen in the American Colonies?
Did it happen in the United States? I've never heard about this. Was this before, after Reservations, or both.
What agency had authority over this? What century did this occur in?
Was a Residential School a place where ONLY Native American kids were allowed to attend? I don't understand any of this, I don't understand the structure or timeframe.

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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 11:07 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Same thing happened in Australia and in Ireland under British rule. If you want to destroy the culture, wipe out the language.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876



So very true Sig.

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Wednesday, August 15, 2018 11:16 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:

The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?

The impact on First Nations peoples was cultural genocide. Children were taken from their families and put into these places to destroy families and by extension cultures.
These schools and the majority were run by the Catholic church took languages away by beating them out of the children when they were heard them spoken. They were allowed NO contact with their parents and extended family while in these places.

Now, on to your other question. I didn't know that the Feds were going to do this but I think it is a good idea. A lot of whites have no idea what these places did.

You, yourself have proven this time and time again. In the US, you have no idea what this has done.

My own family on my father's side has experience with the system down there.

Did the same thing happen in the American Colonies?
Did it happen in the United States? I've never heard about this. Was this before, after Reservations, or both.
What agency had authority over this? What century did this occur in?
Was a Residential School a place where ONLY Native American kids were allowed to attend? I don't understand any of this, I don't understand the structure or timeframe.



Yes, the same thing happened in the US. And again the Catholic church was responsible.

Why am I not surprised that you weren't taught about the residential schools down there?

We were more of hidden minority down in the US than even up here in Canada.

First the reservation system was put in place then the residential schools.

The government department in charge was the bloody Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Late 1880s well into the 20th Century. The system went down in the 1970s.

The residential school system was set up for First Nations and Native American children but they also took in Halfbreeds because no whites would want to raise a breed and of course the Indian wouldn't take them because they were half white.

Of course you don't understand YOU and I mean whites in general have their whole culture to look back on and language.

Mine had it ripped away from us after all the Indian wars were done with. Time frame after the first white man set foot on this continent until the later half of the 20th century.

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Thursday, August 16, 2018 7:47 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:

The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?

The impact on First Nations peoples was cultural genocide. Children were taken from their families and put into these places to destroy families and by extension cultures.
These schools and the majority were run by the Catholic church took languages away by beating them out of the children when they were heard them spoken. They were allowed NO contact with their parents and extended family while in these places.

Now, on to your other question. I didn't know that the Feds were going to do this but I think it is a good idea. A lot of whites have no idea what these places did.

You, yourself have proven this time and time again. In the US, you have no idea what this has done.

My own family on my father's side has experience with the system down there.

Did the same thing happen in the American Colonies?
Did it happen in the United States? I've never heard about this. Was this before, after Reservations, or both.
What agency had authority over this? What century did this occur in?
Was a Residential School a place where ONLY Native American kids were allowed to attend? I don't understand any of this, I don't understand the structure or timeframe.



Yes, the same thing happened in the US. And again the Catholic church was responsible.

Why am I not surprised that you weren't taught about the residential schools down there?

We were more of hidden minority down in the US than even up here in Canada.

First the reservation system was put in place then the residential schools.

The government department in charge was the bloody Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Late 1880s well into the 20th Century. The system went down in the 1970s.

The residential school system was set up for First Nations and Native American children but they also took in Halfbreeds because no whites would want to raise a breed and of course the Indian wouldn't take them because they were half white.

Of course you don't understand YOU and I mean whites in general have their whole culture to look back on and language.

Mine had it ripped away from us after all the Indian wars were done with. Time frame after the first white man set foot on this continent until the later half of the 20th century.

So Residential Schools were set up off-reservation? Like a Boarding School, separate from home?

Your timeframe is confusing. The Reservation system in US was after the Louisiana Purchase, 3 centuries after Columbus landed.

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Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


This happens to white people too.

The public school system is a terrible thing. It strips away almost any individuality from everybody who goes through it and creates well trained sheep that will one day go on to work for somebody else at a meager salary, all the while teaching whatever agenda of the age is to the children.


If you read 1984, you'll find that Orwell explained this in great detail. How through the school system the kids were essentially turned into spies that would turn their own parents in for behaviors or thoughts that weren't in line with the Hive.


I think it's terrible when cultures are destroyed in this manner. It's already happened to my "people". There is no cultural pride at all in my family, especially in my generation. That pretty much died off when my grandparents did.. My only personal link to it is my only surviving grandmother until her mind completely goes. I doubt my niece will even think of it at all.



It's funny this topic came up in here today. I was just telling my grandma about a great book I read in college called "1,000 Years of Solitude", and how sad it was when their culture was ultimately "killed off" by these means.



If you look back at the threads here about Puerto Rico, this is why I said that they should not try to become an official state to ensure they get relief money for the floods. Their culture will die in a generation or three, there will be a WalMart at every corner, and the island will be turned into a vacation spot for rich people while the once proud Puerto Rican's work as wage slaves for the elite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, August 16, 2018 9:33 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
This happens to white people too.

The public school system is a terrible thing. It strips away almost any individuality from everybody who goes through it and creates well trained sheep that will one day go on to work for somebody else at a meager salary, all the while teaching whatever agenda of the age is to the children.


If you read 1984, you'll find that Orwell explained this in great detail. How through the school system the kids were essentially turned into spies that would turn their own parents in for behaviors or thoughts that weren't in line with the Hive.


I think it's terrible when cultures are destroyed in this manner. It's already happened to my "people". There is no cultural pride at all in my family, especially in my generation. That pretty much died off when my grandparents did.. My only personal link to it is my only surviving grandmother until her mind completely goes. I doubt my niece will even think of it at all.



It's funny this topic came up in here today. I was just telling my grandma about a great book I read in college called "1,000 Years of Solitude", and how sad it was when their culture was ultimately "killed off" by these means.

For my parents, Sam Rayburn High School in Pasadena TX was free baby sitting for me, while they worked at Burger King. But if I wanted more from school than my parents, I could choose to learn something. Or not. For the "Not" students (50 years later I still know them, at least the ones that didn’t die as mindlessly as they had lived) they are not doing so well. They stayed faithful to their heritage and their Southern culture. They voted for Trump. It was their choice to goof off back then and since then and bitch constantly about how unfair life is. These guys are not stoical. They did not volunteer for Vietnam, either. They laugh at my limp from Vietnam. They think they were smarter than me. With their high school education, they could only rise so high, but there is no limit to how low they can fall in America. They are perfectly free in America to be as big a failure as they can be, with some of their grandchildren (but not all!) goofing off in high school same as grandpa did in his day. The cycle of failure continues.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:41 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda, what is the secret here?
What is the impact of Residential Schools on First Peoples? What are Residential Schools?
Quote:

The Liberal government will declare a federal statutory holiday to mark the tragic legacy of the residential school system,
to honour the survivors of residential schools
The overall picture is that it is important to have that day set aside so Canadians continually get it and will never ever forget the impact of genocide in the residential schools on Indigenous peoples


I don't even know if that makes sense.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/otta wa-declare-federal-holiday-mark-175559289.html

Can somebody explain?

The impact on First Nations peoples was cultural genocide. Children were taken from their families and put into these places to destroy families and by extension cultures.
These schools and the majority were run by the Catholic church took languages away by beating them out of the children when they were heard them spoken. They were allowed NO contact with their parents and extended family while in these places.

Now, on to your other question. I didn't know that the Feds were going to do this but I think it is a good idea. A lot of whites have no idea what these places did.

You, yourself have proven this time and time again. In the US, you have no idea what this has done.

My own family on my father's side has experience with the system down there.

Did the same thing happen in the American Colonies?
Did it happen in the United States? I've never heard about this. Was this before, after Reservations, or both.
What agency had authority over this? What century did this occur in?
Was a Residential School a place where ONLY Native American kids were allowed to attend? I don't understand any of this, I don't understand the structure or timeframe.



Yes, the same thing happened in the US. And again the Catholic church was responsible.

Why am I not surprised that you weren't taught about the residential schools down there?

We were more of hidden minority down in the US than even up here in Canada.

First the reservation system was put in place then the residential schools.

The government department in charge was the bloody Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Late 1880s well into the 20th Century. The system went down in the 1970s.

The residential school system was set up for First Nations and Native American children but they also took in Halfbreeds because no whites would want to raise a breed and of course the Indian wouldn't take them because they were half white.

Of course you don't understand YOU and I mean whites in general have their whole culture to look back on and language.

Mine had it ripped away from us after all the Indian wars were done with. Time frame after the first white man set foot on this continent until the later half of the 20th century.

So Residential Schools were set up off-reservation? Like a Boarding School, separate from home?

Your timeframe is confusing. The Reservation system in US was after the Louisiana Purchase, 3 centuries after Columbus landed.



Okay I shouldn't have said the first white man. BUT I did include the late 1880s. We had to be in one place in order to do that much damage to us. Yes, they were off reservation.

Children were completely separated from their homes and families. There was no communication allowed.

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Thursday, August 16, 2018 11:44 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
This happens to white people too.

The public school system is a terrible thing. It strips away almost any individuality from everybody who goes through it and creates well trained sheep that will one day go on to work for somebody else at a meager salary, all the while teaching whatever agenda of the age is to the children.


If you read 1984, you'll find that Orwell explained this in great detail. How through the school system the kids were essentially turned into spies that would turn their own parents in for behaviors or thoughts that weren't in line with the Hive.


I think it's terrible when cultures are destroyed in this manner. It's already happened to my "people". There is no cultural pride at all in my family, especially in my generation. That pretty much died off when my grandparents did.. My only personal link to it is my only surviving grandmother until her mind completely goes. I doubt my niece will even think of it at all.



It's funny this topic came up in here today. I was just telling my grandma about a great book I read in college called "1,000 Years of Solitude", and how sad it was when their culture was ultimately "killed off" by these means.



If you look back at the threads here about Puerto Rico, this is why I said that they should not try to become an official state to ensure they get relief money for the floods. Their culture will die in a generation or three, there will be a WalMart at every corner, and the island will be turned into a vacation spot for rich people while the once proud Puerto Rican's work as wage slaves for the elite.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.

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Friday, August 17, 2018 9:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.



Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, August 17, 2018 1:46 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.



Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)



Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

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Friday, August 17, 2018 5:40 PM

WHOZIT


How about "Ice Road Truckers Day", I love that show.

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Friday, August 17, 2018 6:22 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
How about "Ice Road Truckers Day", I love that show.




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Saturday, August 18, 2018 7:47 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.



Sure thing. Although I don't think that we're entirely disagreeing here. I certainly hope that I'm not coming off as argumentative about this with you, since I do like you and I do respect your opinion. I hear a lot how white people, particularly white men are to blame for all of societies woes today, so forgive me if it's a bit of a sore spot with me since I've never gone out of my way to hurt anybody or make their life difficult. :)

Quote:

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.



Okay, sure... but I'd just like a little clarification on some things. Since "America" is hardly a prodominantly white society today comared to how it was when it was first settled by Europeans, are all Americans of any ethnicity to blame for this today, or are we only talking about "White Americans"? I do have to ask this since you want to make a distinction thinking of me as an American first, yet (I believe) that you seem to blame those with European heritage for the issue. If that is the case then forgive me for not understanding what point you're trying to make here.


Quote:


Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.



Good for your people for fighting it. I praised that before. It's also what I was talking about when I said that Puerto Rico should NOT try to become the 51st state because they will see their own culture destroyed in a generation or two if they sell themselves out for relief money today.

My "people" didn't fight it at all. The very many different European ethnicity have melded together probably quicker than any group of people that ever existed on the planet. As I said before, that leaves us with no real heritage, or stories, or folklore, or anything really interesting at all. We're kind of just "here and now", and easily forgotten once we're gone.

This fact makes it very easy to just call somebody like me a "white person", especially when somebody else who isn't white is saying it with a negative connotation. I can't really argue it, but I hate how that "fact" somehow makes me culpable for the "sins" of those other "whites" that came before me, especially when I'm sure I share no blood with a great many of the worst of them.

Even if there were a blood relation, I take offense to anybody who attacks me or even just looks at me in a negative light without actually knowing who I am as a person, simply because of the color of my skin.



Quote:

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".



But that's the thing. There really was no identity in the first place. I wasn't a part of anything. I just was. I guess maybe coming from a set of parents that decided to have a monstrous divorce when I was 5 years old that tortured the childhoods of my brothers and I for decades and haunts us to this day makes that even more of the truth for me. Not only didn't I have any heritage or roots or anything solid to stand on in the past of my family, but I didn't really even have much of a family to speak of. The only good thing that came out of all of that is that I believe my brothers and I have a stronger bond in adulthood than most siblings will ever have.

Quote:

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.


I grew up spending 90% of my free time glued to the Television or playing video games. I can't imagine that's what my ancestors were doing with their free time.

Quote:

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.



Well, at least you have the knowing, is what I was saying. I was raised in a school system and media culture that encouraged kids not to listen to their parents and their traditions, and I did just that. My "role models" were the likes of Bill and Ted and later Beavis and Butthead.

It was only when I got somewhat old that I realized how truly sad that was, but by that time almost anybody in my family old enough to know a different life is already gone. My remaining grandmother has some interesting stories to tell from time to time when one of our conversations sparks a long lost memory from her past, but even she doesn't know much of the "old world". She was 50/50 Dutch and German. Her maiden name was "Goering". She was born in America, and went to public school in a post WWII school system. I can only imagine how much shame she was made to feel at school for sharing the same last name as the infamous Goering.



Quote:

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.


I agree. I'm not trying to say that there aren't, and I'm certainly not trying to trivialize what happened in the past to your people. All I'm saying is that the end result will ultimately be the same for both of our "people" one day. Somehow, your people have managed through all of your struggles to maintain a great deal of your cultural identity. Maybe you'll prove me wrong and we won't all forget our past in the future. I do wish your people my most genuine desire for that to happen.

My "people" simply gave their past away for fast food, faster cars and television.

Quote:

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.



I'm not aware of what you're talking about here. What is it and why is it so important to you?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:41 PM

BRENDA


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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
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Originally posted by Brenda:


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.



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Sure thing. Although I don't think that we're entirely disagreeing here. I certainly hope that I'm not coming off as argumentative about this with you, since I do like you and I do respect your opinion. I hear a lot how white people, particularly white men are to blame for all of societies woes today, so forgive me if it's a bit of a sore spot with me since I've never gone out of my way to hurt anybody or make their life difficult. :)


No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.

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As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.



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Okay, sure... but I'd just like a little clarification on some things. Since "America" is hardly a prodominantly white society today comared to how it was when it was first settled by Europeans, are all Americans of any ethnicity to blame for this today, or are we only talking about "White Americans"? I do have to ask this since you want to make a distinction thinking of me as an American first, yet (I believe) that you seem to blame those with European heritage for the issue. If that is the case then forgive me for not understanding what point you're trying to make here.


I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.


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Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.



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Good for your people for fighting it. I praised that before. It's also what I was talking about when I said that Puerto Rico should NOT try to become the 51st state because they will see their own culture destroyed in a generation or two if they sell themselves out for relief money today.


I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.

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My "people" didn't fight it at all. The very many different European ethnicity have melded together probably quicker than any group of people that ever existed on the planet. As I said before, that leaves us with no real heritage, or stories, or folklore, or anything really interesting at all. We're kind of just "here and now", and easily forgotten once we're gone.


Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.

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This fact makes it very easy to just call somebody like me a "white person", especially when somebody else who isn't white is saying it with a negative connotation. I can't really argue it, but I hate how that "fact" somehow makes me culpable for the "sins" of those other "whites" that came before me, especially when I'm sure I share no blood with a great many of the worst of them.


I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada but his parents and other family immigrated from there. We were talking history and said the Portuguese were as bad as the Spanish. He told me not to lump him in with that. I explained to him, "Think of the history of Portugal. They sailed with the Spanish. So your people were involved."

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Even if there were a blood relation, I take offense to anybody who attacks me or even just looks at me in a negative light without actually knowing who I am as a person, simply because of the color of my skin.


I feel the same way when people go off still to this day about "No good Indians". That gets me going on them and I love shocking them when I say that I am part Indian and they don't know what to look for in my face.



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I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".



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But that's the thing. There really was no identity in the first place. I wasn't a part of anything. I just was. I guess maybe coming from a set of parents that decided to have a monstrous divorce when I was 5 years old that tortured the childhoods of my brothers and I for decades and haunts us to this day makes that even more of the truth for me. Not only didn't I have any heritage or roots or anything solid to stand on in the past of my family, but I didn't really even have much of a family to speak of. The only good thing that came out of all of that is that I believe my brothers and I have a stronger bond in adulthood than most siblings will ever have.


There is another difference between us. Yes, my dad died when I was 13 but I still had my mother and my dad's brothers and sisters to talk to and even a couple of my mom's aunts. So I always seem to have a history to fall back on.

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Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.


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I grew up spending 90% of my free time glued to the Television or playing video games. I can't imagine that's what my ancestors were doing with their free time.


No, I'm sure they weren't. TV wasn't invented until the late 40s and if your family arrived before the 20th century which to me sounds like they did. Survival would have been on their minds.

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The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.



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Well, at least you have the knowing, is what I was saying. I was raised in a school system and media culture that encouraged kids not to listen to their parents and their traditions, and I did just that. My "role models" were the likes of Bill and Ted and later Beavis and Butthead.


We do and I have 1 relic from that time. A toe piece from a moccasin with the bead work intact. It is a rose in red beads with leaves and the stem. The other moccasin and the rest of that one are gone. But that is most precious to me. I can only guess that the moccasins were made by my great grandmother origonaly. Not listening to your elders in my family as a child wasn't a good thing.

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It was only when I got somewhat old that I realized how truly sad that was, but by that time almost anybody in my family old enough to know a different life is already gone. My remaining grandmother has some interesting stories to tell from time to time when one of our conversations sparks a long lost memory from her past, but even she doesn't know much of the "old world". She was 50/50 Dutch and German. Her maiden name was "Goering". She was born in America, and went to public school in a post WWII school system. I can only imagine how much shame she was made to feel at school for sharing the same last name as the infamous Goering.


That happens to all of us. So many questions I wish now that I could ask my dad's oldest sister and or if my dad had lived a little longer.
That must have been horrific for your grandmother as I too can imagine the shame and such she would have suffered.

I remember hearing a story that Buffy St. Marie told once of when she was in school. She's pure blood Native American. They used to tell the kids that were no more Indians and she said, "I sat there with my black hair, black eyes and dark skin."



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There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.


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I agree. I'm not trying to say that there aren't, and I'm certainly not trying to trivialize what happened in the past to your people. All I'm saying is that the end result will ultimately be the same for both of our "people" one day. Somehow, your people have managed through all of your struggles to maintain a great deal of your cultural identity. Maybe you'll prove me wrong and we won't all forget our past in the future. I do wish your people my most genuine desire for that to happen.


I know you're not trying to do that. It has taken us a great deal of work to claw back what we have now and continue to get back. I hope the work continues and what the tribes in Canada and the US have is never lost again.

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My "people" simply gave their past away for fast food, faster cars and television.


I hope that the new immigrants to the US and Canada do not totally loose their identities into these melting pots.

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That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.



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I'm not aware of what you're talking about here. What is it and why is it so important to you?


The title of the thread here. Ottawa wanting a day to remember the survivors of the residential schools.

When I said this was a good thing JSF began questioning me on why this was important and such. And JSF is a prime example of a white person not knowing and not understanding what happened in those places. Children were beaten for speaking their languages and sexually abused in the Catholic schools. No contact with parents and other family members. They tried to unmake us.

It's important to me because my family has experience with the residential school system in the US. The system was the same on both sides of the line, destroy our cultures, languages. Take away our identity. It's not as widely known down there. My family knows because of our grandmother and her brother and sisters were raised in one after their parents died. This is why we lost your great grandmother's language and customs and culture. Mine and other families are still clawing information back.

I hope I've helped you understand Jack.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


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Monday, August 20, 2018 8:20 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:

No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.



You didn't sound angry. It's just hard to tell emotions sometimes on the internet and wanted to make sure we weren't being argumentative with each other. I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and that you know that I'm also doing the same with you.

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I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.


Thanks for clarifying that. I think this is more a systemic thing than a racial thing though. The fact that a lot of people back then and a lot of people here now were/are white was just incidental. People going with the flow and taking the path of least resistance and all. I think that most people today, regardless of race, are genuinely good... or at least neutral. I would never say that all rich people are "evil", but generally speaking if you're looking for the truly bad people in the world, that's where I'd start searching.


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I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.


Yeah. I do hope enough Puerto Ricans realize this before those in power over there make a choice that will end their way of life as they know it. They still have an opportunity to keep their way of life intact, and those who are wise enough have plenty of history to see what could happen if they don't make the right decisions going forward.

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Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.


True, but what of it could I actually believe at this point? Half of the stuff they taught us in history class in American schools has now been exposed as bullshit, or the agenda completely flipped and they're telling us that it's bullshit. I don't know what to make of history at all since I don't know anybody who could tell me if any of it is true or not.

It could be an interesting exercise, but I can't imagine that learning anything at this point would have any emotional or nostalgic value to me now.

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I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada but his parents and other family immigrated from there. We were talking history and said the Portuguese were as bad as the Spanish. He told me not to lump him in with that. I explained to him, "Think of the history of Portugal. They sailed with the Spanish. So your people were involved."


Yeah. You can't be expected to know everything about other cultures until you learn, but one similar example I've learned is that you should never confuse a Puerto Rican with a Mexican or vice/versa. I won't go into too many details for fear of displaying my cultural ignorance, but let's just say that they do not appreciate that.

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I feel the same way when people go off still to this day about "No good Indians". That gets me going on them and I love shocking them when I say that I am part Indian and they don't know what to look for in my face.


I've never had that problem. No mistaking me for anything other than just another "white dude" lol.


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There is another difference between us. Yes, my dad died when I was 13 but I still had my mother and my dad's brothers and sisters to talk to and even a couple of my mom's aunts. So I always seem to have a history to fall back on.


It's not as if I didn't have any family at all. There were aunts and uncles, and for a time grandparents as well, but I was just talking about being one of the kids that come from a horiffic divorce that just becomes part of your identity, while growing up with friends who all had "normal" lives with "normal" parents that didn't split or seem to fight much with each other.

Even still though... The only "history" I might have learned from any of them were more like crazy stories of stuff they did "when they were my age". No stories of "my people" or any folklore or anything. All of them were already without any real cultural identity long before I was born.

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We do and I have 1 relic from that time. A toe piece from a moccasin with the bead work intact. It is a rose in red beads with leaves and the stem. The other moccasin and the rest of that one are gone. But that is most precious to me. I can only guess that the moccasins were made by my great grandmother origonaly. Not listening to your elders in my family as a child wasn't a good thing.


That's cool. I actually don't have a single thing that came from Europe over the boats. No heirlooms. The closest thing I have is a few REALLY old tools that were owned by my Great Grandpa who had acquired them in the early 1900's that had his last name engraved on them.

I didn't mean to say that I was a bad kid and didn't do as I was told. I just mean that I kind of viewed them as a nuisance that I couldn't wait to be rid of. I'm sure the divorce had a lot to do with that, but I can't imagine our "Parents Just Don't Understand" culture helped either. What I wouldn't give to be able to spend a few hours just really getting to know my Grandpa today. *sad*

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That happens to all of us. So many questions I wish now that I could ask my dad's oldest sister and or if my dad had lived a little longer.
That must have been horrific for your grandmother as I too can imagine the shame and such she would have suffered.

I remember hearing a story that Buffy St. Marie told once of when she was in school. She's pure blood Native American. They used to tell the kids that were no more Indians and she said, "I sat there with my black hair, black eyes and dark skin."



Wow. Can't imagine what that would feel like to be told that you don't exist anymore and have some teacher telling other kids around you that you don't exist anymore.

I can't imagine which is worse. That, or having to live down likely being a direct relation to the 2nd in command for one of the most evil men the world has ever known.

Makes me feel so petty for allowing my self esteem shattered as a kid for wearing glasses and braces. Makes me feel doublely petty for needing to wear contact lenses to this day whenever I leave my house. Hell... I can't even mow my lawn without them in.


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I know you're not trying to do that. It has taken us a great deal of work to claw back what we have now and continue to get back. I hope the work continues and what the tribes in Canada and the US have is never lost again.


Good luck. I hope there's enough history left to put the pieces back together.

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I hope that the new immigrants to the US and Canada do not totally loose their identities into these melting pots.


Yeah. This is where the "doublethink" starts to break my brain. I know it's sad that my history was lost, but at the same time I think if you live here you should learn the language of the land, otherwise you're just isolating yourself and annoying everyone else. It definitely doesn't help do anything about the "tribe mentality" we've got going on today if you're actively not trying to assimilate in any shape or form.

I don't know the answer to this. I have to admit that I'm rather conflicted on the issue.

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The title of the thread here. Ottawa wanting a day to remember the survivors of the residential schools.


Ahhh... Yes. Forgive me. Sometimes I just get lost in the thread of a conversation and forget where it originated and tune out "background noise".

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When I said this was a good thing JSF began questioning me on why this was important and such. And JSF is a prime example of a white person not knowing and not understanding what happened in those places. Children were beaten for speaking their languages and sexually abused in the Catholic schools. No contact with parents and other family members. They tried to unmake us.


I've got to admit that I'm fairly ignorant of it as well. We definitely didn't learn much about it in school. When I was growing up it was still pretty normal for kids to play "Cowboys and Indians". I'm pretty sure that most kids in America today would give you a quizzical look if you said that phrase.

Truth be told, I still think the greatest Warner Bros cartoon ever made was "Injun Joe, The Super Chief". I'm absolutely sure they don't ever air that on TV anywhere these days. I don't know if you've ever seen that one. I'd honestly like to know your opinion about it if you did.

Again, I don't mean to trivialize anything your people went through, but if it makes you feel any better (which I know it doesn't), it seems the high ranking members of the Catholic Church were pretty quick to molest anybody they could, regardless of their origins. As far as I know that never happened to anybody in my family, but that's not exactly something anybody I know would ever talk about, let alone previous generations.

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It's important to me because my family has experience with the residential school system in the US. The system was the same on both sides of the line, destroy our cultures, languages. Take away our identity. It's not as widely known down there. My family knows because of our grandmother and her brother and sisters were raised in one after their parents died. This is why we lost your great grandmother's language and customs and culture. Mine and other families are still clawing information back.


Yeah. That all sucks. I think the desired end result for everyone is essentially the same, but the entire process went a lot smoother and nicer in general for white people than it did for anybody else since the people calling the shots and making the trends for so long were exclusively white people themselves. Seems that the assimilation process for anybody who clearly didn't look the "same" was much worse, full of hate and often times brutal in nature.

I can't say I'm personally sorry since I had nothing to do with it, but I do my best to understand and you have my deepest empathy.



I hope I've helped you understand Jack.


It's been rather enlightening. Thanks Brenda.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, August 20, 2018 8:31 PM

BRENDA


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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
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Originally posted by Brenda:

No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.



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You didn't sound angry. It's just hard to tell emotions sometimes on the internet and wanted to make sure we weren't being argumentative with each other. I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and that you know that I'm also doing the same with you.


It can be. I do appreciate it. Discussing is better than arguing.

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I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.


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Thanks for clarifying that. I think this is more a systemic thing than a racial thing though. The fact that a lot of people back then and a lot of people here now were/are white was just incidental. People going with the flow and taking the path of least resistance and all. I think that most people today, regardless of race, are genuinely good... or at least neutral. I would never say that all rich people are "evil", but generally speaking if you're looking for the truly bad people in the world, that's where I'd start searching.


I think you are probably right. The system was against us for a lot of reasons. I try to view the good in all people and treat everyone with respect.


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I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.


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Yeah. I do hope enough Puerto Ricans realize this before those in power over there make a choice that will end their way of life as they know it. They still have an opportunity to keep their way of life intact, and those who are wise enough have plenty of history to see what could happen if they don't make the right decisions going forward.


I hope so too and they do have that opportunity and it shouldn't be wasted. As you said the history is there for them to see.

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Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.


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True, but what of it could I actually believe at this point? Half of the stuff they taught us in history class in American schools has now been exposed as bullshit, or the agenda completely flipped and they're telling us that it's bullshit. I don't know what to make of history at all since I don't know anybody who could tell me if any of it is true or not.


Then don't look at American history. Go look at European history. Get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. It is just an idea. I don't like the thought of anyone loosing their history.

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It could be an interesting exercise, but I can't imagine that learning anything at this point would have any emotional or nostalgic value to me now.


Your choice of course. But you never know what gem of knowledge you might glean.

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I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada but his parents and other family immigrated from there. We were talking history and said the Portuguese were as bad as the Spanish. He told me not to lump him in with that. I explained to him, "Think of the history of Portugal. They sailed with the Spanish. So your people were involved."


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Yeah. You can't be expected to know everything about other cultures until you learn, but one similar example I've learned is that you should never confuse a Puerto Rican with a Mexican or vice/versa. I won't go into too many details for fear of displaying my cultural ignorance, but let's just say that they do not appreciate that.


All he had to do was draw on what he learned in school from his European history. We were taught about the Spanish landing in South America and who sailed with them. Wouldn't imagine they would.

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I feel the same way when people go off still to this day about "No good Indians". That gets me going on them and I love shocking them when I say that I am part Indian and they don't know what to look for in my face.


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I've never had that problem. No mistaking me for anything other than just another "white dude" lol.


To illustrate my point. Once a lady that my mom knew was going on about lazy Indians and I looked at her said, "Excuse me but part American Indian here and I don't appreciate the remarks." She looked at my mom who nodded and then she got this shocked look on her face to which she added, "You enjoyed doing that didn't you?" I had to admit that I did.


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There is another difference between us. Yes, my dad died when I was 13 but I still had my mother and my dad's brothers and sisters to talk to and even a couple of my mom's aunts. So I always seem to have a history to fall back on.


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It's not as if I didn't have any family at all. There were aunts and uncles, and for a time grandparents as well, but I was just talking about being one of the kids that come from a horiffic divorce that just becomes part of your identity, while growing up with friends who all had "normal" lives with "normal" parents that didn't split or seem to fight much with each other.


There is another difference. Until my dad's death, I never once worried that they would divorce. They adored each other and by extension me and my brother.

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Even still though... The only "history" I might have learned from any of them were more like crazy stories of stuff they did "when they were my age". No stories of "my people" or any folklore or anything. All of them were already without any real cultural identity long before I was born.


Understood. I got a few when I was younger stories from my mom and then from my dad's sister, mainly his oldest one after his death.

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We do and I have 1 relic from that time. A toe piece from a moccasin with the bead work intact. It is a rose in red beads with leaves and the stem. The other moccasin and the rest of that one are gone. But that is most precious to me. I can only guess that the moccasins were made by my great grandmother originaly. Not listening to your elders in my family as a child wasn't a good thing.


Quote:

That's cool. I actually don't have a single thing that came from Europe over the boats. No heirlooms. The closest thing I have is a few REALLY old tools that were owned by my Great Grandpa who had acquired them in the early 1900's that had his last name engraved on them.


That's cool too. Be glad that you have them. I also have a straight razor that men used for shaving with back around the turn of the 20th century. Not sure if it was my grandfather's or a great Uncle's.

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I didn't mean to say that I was a bad kid and didn't do as I was told. I just mean that I kind of viewed them as a nuisance that I couldn't wait to be rid of. I'm sure the divorce had a lot to do with that, but I can't imagine our "Parents Just Don't Understand" culture helped either. What I wouldn't give to be able to spend a few hours just really getting to know my Grandpa today. *sad*


I didn't mean that you were. I'm sure the divorce had a huge impact on you and your brothers that you are only now starting to understand. I never knew my grandparents on either side. I just have stories and photos.

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That happens to all of us. So many questions I wish now that I could ask my dad's oldest sister and or if my dad had lived a little longer.
That must have been horrific for your grandmother as I too can imagine the shame and such she would have suffered.

I remember hearing a story that Buffy St. Marie told once of when she was in school. She's pure blood Native American. They used to tell the kids that were no more Indians and she said, "I sat there with my black hair, black eyes and dark skin."



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/b]Wow. Can't imagine what that would feel like to be told that you don't exist anymore and have some teacher telling other kids around you that you don't exist anymore.

I can't imagine which is worse. That, or having to live down likely being a direct relation to the 2nd in command for one of the most evil men the world has ever known.



Truthfully Jack. I don't know which is worse either.

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Makes me feel so petty for allowing my self esteem shattered as a kid for wearing glasses and braces. Makes me feel doublely petty for needing to wear contact lenses to this day whenever I leave my house. Hell... I can't even mow my lawn without them in.


Don't worry about the glasses thing or the braces. I had braces in high school and those never bothered me. Now, the glasses however did bother me. Got my first pair of glasses in high school. I was so bothered by them that I would bury the glasses case under my textbooks and only take them out in class then take them off quickly after class and rebury them. I now have bifocals that I despise even more.


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I know you're not trying to do that. It has taken us a great deal of work to claw back what we have now and continue to get back. I hope the work continues and what the tribes in Canada and the US have is never lost again.


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Good luck. I hope there's enough history left to put the pieces back together.


There are elders that hold stories and histories. These are passed down and there is some pretty good academic information out there too. So, I think there is.

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I hope that the new immigrants to the US and Canada do not totally loose their identities into these melting pots.


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Yeah. This is where the "doublethink" starts to break my brain. I know it's sad that my history was lost, but at the same time I think if you live here you should learn the language of the land, otherwise you're just isolating yourself and annoying everyone else. It definitely doesn't help do anything about the "tribe mentality" we've got going on today if you're actively not trying to assimilate in any shape or form.

I don't know the answer to this. I have to admit that I'm rather conflicted on the issue.



The key I think in some ways is to maintain the language and traditions in the home for sure and then they can be shared with the larger community. But yes English is a vital component nowadays.

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The title of the thread here. Ottawa wanting a day to remember the survivors of the residential schools.


Quote:

Ahhh... Yes. Forgive me. Sometimes I just get lost in the thread of a conversation and forget where it originated and tune out "background noise".


No worries. I thought maybe you forgot.

Quote:

When I said this was a good thing JSF began questioning me on why this was important and such. And JSF is a prime example of a white person not knowing and not understanding what happened in those places. Children were beaten for speaking their languages and sexually abused in the Catholic schools. No contact with parents and other family members. They tried to unmake us.


Quote:

[b/]I've got to admit that I'm fairly ignorant of it as well. We definitely didn't learn much about it in school. When I was growing up it was still pretty normal for kids to play "Cowboys and Indians". I'm pretty sure that most kids in America today would give you a quizzical look if you said that phrase.


My understanding is that the residential school system isn't taught about in school. That I think should be corrected.

Quote:

Truth be told, I still think the greatest Warner Bros cartoon ever made was "Injun Joe, The Super Chief". I'm absolutely sure they don't ever air that on TV anywhere these days. I don't know if you've ever seen that one. I'd honestly like to know your opinion about it if you did.


I can honestly say that I have never heard of that cartoon. It was probably never aired up here.

Quote:

Again, I don't mean to trivialize anything your people went through, but if it makes you feel any better (which I know it doesn't), it seems the high ranking members of the Catholic Church were pretty quick to molest anybody they could, regardless of their origins. As far as I know that never happened to anybody in my family, but that's not exactly something anybody I know would ever talk about, let alone previous generations.


You're not Jack. The Catholic church has done more than enough damage just to their own church members and those priests are never prosecuted either.

Quote:

It's important to me because my family has experience with the residential school system in the US. The system was the same on both sides of the line, destroy our cultures, languages. Take away our identity. It's not as widely known down there. My family knows because of our grandmother and her brother and sisters were raised in one after their parents died. This is why we lost our great grandmother's language and customs and culture. Mine and other families are still clawing information back.


Quote:

Yeah. That all sucks. I think the desired end result for everyone is essentially the same, but the entire process went a lot smoother and nicer in general for white people than it did for anybody else since the people calling the shots and making the trends for so long were exclusively white people themselves. Seems that the assimilation process for anybody who clearly didn't look the "same" was much worse, full of hate and often times brutal in nature.


The end result was the same. Make everyone assimilate. It was much worse on non-whites.

Quote:

I can't say I'm personally sorry since I had nothing to do with it, but I do my best to understand and you have my deepest empathy.


You do good Jack.



I hope I've helped you understand Jack.


Quote:

It's been rather enlightening. Thanks Brenda.


You are welcome Jack. Always willing spread a little knowledge if I have it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 1:58 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.


Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2018 2:30 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.


Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.



Thank you for that information JSF. I should take a look at that.

It isn't that I didn't want to share that information with you. I just felt that I was getting pelted with a lot of questions and was having a hard time putting my thoughts into order.
So, I do apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring you.

Here is another thing about this idea of the Feds. My Prime Minister's family on his father's side has Iroquois blood. So probably M. Trudeau has been talking to various tribes from around the country and the Metis to come up with this idea.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:11 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.


Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.



Thank you for that information JSF. I should take a look at that.

It isn't that I didn't want to share that information with you. I just felt that I was getting pelted with a lot of questions and was having a hard time putting my thoughts into order.
So, I do apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring you.

Here is another thing about this idea of the Feds. My Prime Minister's family on his father's side has Iroquois blood. So probably M. Trudeau has been talking to various tribes from around the country and the Metis to come up with this idea.

I am told that one of the most reasonable Presidents regarding Indian Affairs was Millard Fillmore, granting audience and Treaty to elderly Chief Buffalo (who travelled from Apostle Islands to D.C. via Buffalo and Albany). He was a relative of mine, on the Millard side. He was with the Whig Party, forerunners of the Republicans - who Emancipated Slaves and ended Slavery.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2018 2:22 AM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.

We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.

Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.


Sure they have.

I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.

The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.

I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.

I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.

I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Nobody has a monopoly on that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)


Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.



Thank you for that information JSF. I should take a look at that.

It isn't that I didn't want to share that information with you. I just felt that I was getting pelted with a lot of questions and was having a hard time putting my thoughts into order.
So, I do apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring you.

Here is another thing about this idea of the Feds. My Prime Minister's family on his father's side has Iroquois blood. So probably M. Trudeau has been talking to various tribes from around the country and the Metis to come up with this idea.

I am told that one of the most reasonable Presidents regarding Indian Affairs was Millard Fillmore, granting audience and Treaty to elderly Chief Buffalo (who travelled from Apostle Islands to D.C. via Buffalo and Albany). He was a relative of mine, on the Millard side. He was with the Whig Party, forerunners of the Republicans - who Emancipated Slaves and ended Slavery.



I would have to look him up as that is a name that I do not know.

The Department of Indian Affairs in Canada and the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the US, I feel is a bone of contention on both sides of the border.

I have known for many years from the news that tribes up here would love the Department to be done away with and I suspect that the feeling is the same in the US.

My family has a number with the Bureau, I don't remember it now but one of my cousins in the US found it years ago and I learned it when I was in high school and visiting down there.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2018 7:49 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.


Thank you for that information JSF. I should take a look at that.

It isn't that I didn't want to share that information with you. I just felt that I was getting pelted with a lot of questions and was having a hard time putting my thoughts into order.
So, I do apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring you.

Here is another thing about this idea of the Feds. My Prime Minister's family on his father's side has Iroquois blood. So probably M. Trudeau has been talking to various tribes from around the country and the Metis to come up with this idea.

I am told that one of the most reasonable Presidents regarding Indian Affairs was Millard Fillmore, granting audience and Treaty to elderly Chief Buffalo (who travelled from Apostle Islands to D.C. via Buffalo and Albany). He was a relative of mine, on the Millard side. He was with the Whig Party, forerunners of the Republicans - who Emancipated Slaves and ended Slavery.


I would have to look him up as that is a name that I do not know.

The Department of Indian Affairs in Canada and the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the US, I feel is a bone of contention on both sides of the border.

I have known for many years from the news that tribes up here would love the Department to be done away with and I suspect that the feeling is the same in the US.

My family has a number with the Bureau, I don't remember it now but one of my cousins in the US found it years ago and I learned it when I was in high school and visiting down there.

The BIA at the time shut down Chief Buffalo in D.C. but Fillmore went around BIA, bypassing them for a direct meeting, to hear the grievance.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:46 PM

BRENDA


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Brenda:
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.

As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.

An America is not a race but a country.

Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.

I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".

What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".

Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.

The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.

For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.

There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.

That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.

Something I just realized.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.

I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.

Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount of info available, even a couple decades ago. I might fear that the lack of interaction with the Tribes/Nation's could hinder some progress, but I would be hopeful that a Sacajewea Tree would help flesh out that part of your Tree. A lot of famous people's Trees have already been done.

Brenda, you have said that you posted that you thought this was a good idea, and then I asked you about it. But that is inaccurate.
My Original Post which Originated this thread openly asked you about it. I was requesting information about a topic which I wanted to know about, and from your perspective instead of the MSM version.

I am glad that you shared information with Jack which I had asked about but you didn't wish to share with me.


Thank you for that information JSF. I should take a look at that.

It isn't that I didn't want to share that information with you. I just felt that I was getting pelted with a lot of questions and was having a hard time putting my thoughts into order.
So, I do apologize if it seemed like I was ignoring you.

Here is another thing about this idea of the Feds. My Prime Minister's family on his father's side has Iroquois blood. So probably M. Trudeau has been talking to various tribes from around the country and the Metis to come up with this idea.

I am told that one of the most reasonable Presidents regarding Indian Affairs was Millard Fillmore, granting audience and Treaty to elderly Chief Buffalo (who travelled from Apostle Islands to D.C. via Buffalo and Albany). He was a relative of mine, on the Millard side. He was with the Whig Party, forerunners of the Republicans - who Emancipated Slaves and ended Slavery.


I would have to look him up as that is a name that I do not know.

The Department of Indian Affairs in Canada and the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the US, I feel is a bone of contention on both sides of the border.

I have known for many years from the news that tribes up here would love the Department to be done away with and I suspect that the feeling is the same in the US.

My family has a number with the Bureau, I don't remember it now but one of my cousins in the US found it years ago and I learned it when I was in high school and visiting down there.

The BIA at the time shut down Chief Buffalo in D.C. but Fillmore went around BIA, bypassing them for a direct meeting, to hear the grievance.




That does sound like Fillmore was a good man or at least willing to try and help.

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