joss whedon battle royale..... by est120

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joss whedon battle royale.....

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Monday, November 15, 2004 04:25
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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:19 AM

ahh... now here is a question that might get some people fired up. of all the things that joss whedon has written or worked on (firefly, angel, buffy, films such as alien resurrection, titan ae, toy story etc.) which one reigns supreme and more importantly, WHY?

my choice is firefly. my reason, the writing has been uniformly good across the episodes and although this may be partly due to the short run of the show, i think it also says something about the development of the writer's skill after two previous tv series. also, i felt the production value is higher since more advance effects were available (and used) for this show compared to the other two. also, perhaps more $$ was spent on each episode.

of course, no one can judge all the things he has done on the same level (since, like i said, effects have evolved), but for the time being, just ignore that and judge each one independently.

please post a reason why you chose the one you did.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:53 AM

SGTGUMP

Well, for me it has to be Firefly. If it wasn't for Firefly, I wouldn't have even heard of Joss Whedon. I really enjoyed Titan A.E. and Toy Story, but I hadn't heard of him.

As for Buffy and Angel, I wasn't very interested in those shows when they were on the air. When I try to watch them now I catch it in the middle of the season and I don't know what's going on.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:17 PM

GOJIRO

Titan A.E. Definitely.

Okay, just kidding. It's Firefly.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:31 PM

RABIT

Heh... Yeah, Firefly.

I've always liked his movie work. Buffy was a beautifully crafted concept with a wonderful cast, and I absolutely loved it. In my opinion, Angel was even better (with certain exceptions), as it was more interesting topic matter to me and rang true.

But Firefly...

I've never been an actual fan of anything. I was talking to my wife about this over the weekend. I've never bought things from a show before or anything like that, not even in my youth. But I actually own not only the show on DVD, but clothing (and soon to be more!), including a Jane hat!

But the show has a strength of heart - a feeling of reality in the fantasy - to it that just held me captivated, week after week. It's the characters, the wonder, the detail...

It's got it all.

Rabit

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:31 PM

THEGREYJEDI

Wait...what?! Joss wrote Titan A.E. and Toy Story? D00d. I've liked Joss longer than I thought.

My vote's still going to have to go with Firefly, though. I never could really get into Buffy, and while I really liked the concept behind Angel's character (my favorite type of character is the reformed bad guy or dark good guy), I just never really did watch it all that much. Liked what I saw, though. Firefly's just got so much I love. Historical nods to the Civil War, western and sci-fi. Great characters, wonderful story, and the obvious love of the cast and crew for their work.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:41 PM

EMBERS

I admit that I believe that 'Firefly' had the greatest unfulfilled potential of Joss' vision...
and I have high hopes that 'Serenity' and subsequent films, will fulfill that potential.

However if you ask

Quote:

which one reigns supreme and more importantly, WHY?

I have to pick Buffy the Vampire Slayer, because:
'Hush': the brilliant silent episode
'Once More With Feeling': the even more brilliant musical
Buffy was filled with amazing achievements of uniquely exciting writing...
There has never been a show like it on the air,
and with Joss closing down Mutant Enemy I fear there never will be another show like it on Television again....

However I still do believe that Joss has a huge career ahead of him on the silver screen, and that 'Serenity' is just the first of many exciting films.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 12:42 PM

CYBERSNARK

Firefly, for all the reasons given above, and one more; it's his latest creation.

The next new project Joss turns to just might dethrone it, though. With everything a writer does, he (or she) gets more polished, and picks up a few new tricks.

Something tells me Joss is just gonna keep topping himself.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:09 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Difficult question this.

As much as I'd love to say Firefly I think I'm going to go with:

Buffy it really was something new for TV at the time, and they did a heck of a lot with that show. Season 3 was a remarkable run of great quality shows, with real wrenching emotional episodes, almost one after the other. It was totally gripping and even now when I watch that season I have to watch it all the way through - it's so strong.

Then there are the one off classics that pushed the boundaries of TV:
Hush as was mentioned already.
Once more with feeling
TheBody
and that dream one which I forget what it was called now.

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:32 PM

JEWEL

Firefly was what introduced me to the world of Joss Whedon and it holds that special place in my heart.

The writing is fantastic throughout, and I also think that part of the reason for that is the fact there are only 13 epidodes. Joss also mentioned in one of the commentaries that since they were in danger of cancellation since the beginning, it really inspired them to really go after exactly what shots really needed to be shown to tell the story to it's fullest. I think Joss & Co. accomplished that brilliantly.

That said, even though Firefly is still my favorite (I think), I am also thoroughly addicted to Buffy and Angel now as well and I feel sad that I missed out on these shows all the years they were on tv.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:35 PM

JEWEL

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

and that dream one which I forget what it was called now.

Would that be Restless? I just watched the commentary for that the other day. Brilliant.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:33 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by jewel:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

and that dream one which I forget what it was called now.

Would that be Restless? I just watched the commentary for that the other day. Brilliant.

That's the one Jewel. I love that episode.

www.cirqus.com

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:40 PM

PHOENIXSHIP

I can't believe no one's gonna come out for Angel. It was a scrawny transplant from one of the best shows ever, and who would have thought???

Excellent writing, characters, acting. And talk about unfulfilled potential? It was cut down in the prime of life, just as the whole 12 year saga was wrapping up.

Yes, FF was killed by evil executives, but Angel really came into its own, had a beginning, middle and... no end.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 10:18 PM

PURPLEBELLY

OT heads up for Titan AE on alt.binaries.multimedia.divx, for anyone interested in the Apocrypha but don't tell Whedon I told you

EDIT: is Nederlands gesproken taal dubbed into Dutch

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:33 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Definitely Firefly.

Though it did not have the long runs as Buffy & Angel, in the short time it was on the air, it touched all of us. I doubt that Buffy or Angel could have inspired the fierce loyalty that Firefly did in a brief 11 aired episodes.

The writing was excellent on the show. The direction was inspired. The chemistry of the cast was like nothing I have ever seen on television before or since.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 2:14 PM

LURKER99

Long time reader, first time poster -- please be patient if I make a mistake. I have been lurking since shortly after the show premiered (probably around the time Out of Gas aired, when I realized this was not just a good show, but something really special). I have gotten to know a lot of you! BTW, I figured out how to reply to a post, but how do you create a new one?

To stay on topic, I have never been more passionate about a TV show than Firefly! There are other good shows, but nothing else even comes come IMHO.

One thing that strikes me is all the different levels it operates on. Someone at work noticed how often I browse on my break (the black screen is a giveaway), and he jokingly calls me "Firefly". Well, another coworker overheard that and told us how much HE likes Firefly! What I found interesting is what he finds funny is quite different that what I do -- but that is the genius of the show.

What I also wanted to point out from this thread is after reading all that Joss Whedon has done, I looked him up on IMDB.com. I was interested to note he is listed with an uncredited appearance on the episde "The Message" during the funeral scene. I assume that refers to the final scene (unless there another I am missing). In any case, I cannot spot him. Has anyone else noticed that from IMDB.com or seen him in that scene?

Thanks, and I hope I am not rambling too much -- I thought it was about time I posted something.

Hey, free food!

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 3:26 PM

SHINYSEVEN

Even though I don't think there was any Firefly episode as all-around fabulous as Once More With Feeling, I'd have to put Firefly in Jossverse Win position, Buffy Place, Angel Show. I think both Buffy and Angel jumped the shark in their final seasons. (OK, Firefly probably would have if it got the chance, but it wasn't around long enough.)

There just isn't anybody on the other shows that I love as much as Simon, or anyone as interesting as Mal.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 4:24 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Definitely Firefly.
I doubt that Buffy or Angel could have inspired the fierce loyalty that Firefly did in a brief 11 aired episodes.

Well, that is a very good point, when Angel started I tried 3 episodes and then stopped watching it...
I only restarted because I heard that there were cross-overs I was missing out on, and then I really did end up getting into the show....

And Buffy's first season (about the same number as the half season Firefly was given) was very thin, if that had been all we had to judge on, then I don't think any of us would have been big Buffy fans.

So while I still hold that Joss reached amazing heights with OMWF and Hush and Restless and The Body...
He really showed his brilliance right off the bat in the wonderful characters and story line of Firefly

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:32 PM

DAIKATH

Id say Firefly.

I became a Buffy and Joss fan after seeying Suprise and had to tape every single ep of the show after I'd seen Becoming (I really think they are the dramatic masterpieces of our time).

However, there is something about Firefly, Buffy never quite got my attention again when season 4 started, I mean I still watched every episode, but I never quite got the urge to watch every ep 5 times :) and Angel only got my attention really during season 5.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:54 PM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Definitely Firefly.
I doubt that Buffy or Angel could have inspired the fierce loyalty that Firefly did in a brief 11 aired episodes.

Well, that is a very good point, when Angel started I tried 3 episodes and then stopped watching it...
I only restarted because I heard that there were cross-overs I was missing out on, and then I really did end up getting into the show....

And Buffy's first season (about the same number as the half season Firefly was given) was very thin, if that had been all we had to judge on, then I don't think any of us would have been big Buffy fans.

So while I still hold that Joss reached amazing heights with OMWF and Hush and Restless and The Body...
He really showed his brilliance right off the bat in the wonderful characters and story line of Firefly

Are you kidding me? S1 thin? Granted there were lots of MOTW episodes but the dialogue and character interaction were superb, despite the low budget - most likely due to the high levels of Joss involvement. Hush, OMWF, Restless and The Body were all good (although personally I think all but Restless are way over-rated) but if you look over years 4, 5 and 6 as a whole there was very little in the same league. If you look back on the S2-3 period practically every second episode was a classic...

...and that's why I have to go with Angel. Joss had found his footing with Buffy, and with the Angel premise he and David Greenwalt had come up with something a lot more fundamentally interesting than the Buffy setup. For three years they served up classic after classic, faltering a little in the final 2 seasons before wrapping things up quite beautifully.

Firefly was, for the most part, uniformly good, but there just isn't enough of it to compare.

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Monday, November 15, 2004 4:25 AM

MAUGWAI

I love Buffy. I love Firefly and Angel, too, but man do I love Buffy.

Each episode of Buffy has a theme. And the season has a theme. And the show has a theme. And all the themes play off each other until you can get dizzy trying to make all the connections and finding the meaning of it all. And the acting is brilliant. Bloody brilliant.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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