Serenity Screener - spoilers by KevinIanBeaumont

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Serenity Screener - spoilers

POSTED BY: KEVINIANBEAUMONT
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:13
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VIEWED: 22779
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Friday, December 17, 2004 6:05 PM

I wondered if anyone else noticed that Joss's shows just get dark and serious after a while and that he gets rid of the really fun characters. I also wondered if anyone else is as turned off by Joss's shows when they make that turn as I am. I didn't buy the fourth season of Angel or the seventh season of Buffy because they were too dark and serious and now Mal is dark and Wash is dead in Serenity. Inara is gone and Book is dead. That only leaves Kaylee around to lighten things up. Does anyone else find a problem with that situation cropping up in a Joss show again?

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Friday, December 17, 2004 6:19 PM

TLACOOK

This thread and the turn it has taken is exactly the reason that Joss hates spoilers.

I saw the screening the other night and a portion of you are taking a few tidbits (THAT NO ONE SHOULD HAVE LEAKED) and completely jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Everything in the movie worked and it was for a damn good reason. Joss stuck to his vision for once and a studio supported it.

Geez I am glad all you softies weren't overseeing production. Seems like you all would have watered down Joss' vision the same way those assholes at Fox did.

Suck it up. This movie is one hell of a ride and it runs you through every possible emotion. I left it happy, sad, elated, angry and exhausted.

Sounds like good fiction to me.

Maybe a Disney flick would be more up your alley next time.

sheesh!

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Friday, December 17, 2004 7:32 PM

TERRYO

One reason I'm a spoiler junkie is that I need time to absorb the shock. I hadn't read the spoilers for Angel 5x22 and it ripped my heart out. If I know ahead of time, I can process it like a normal viewer. (Just for the record, the 2nd and 3rd time I watched, it only hurt like h*ll.)

So, let those of us who need to vent, vent. Taking it too seriously is just as bad as those who take focus groups seriously. We'll still plunk down our $$ for the movie and dvd.

And if Joss wants to play with our heads, then how can he complain if we need some psychological defenses?

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
This thread and the turn it has taken is exactly the reason that Joss hates spoilers.

I saw the screening the other night and a portion of you are taking a few tidbits (THAT NO ONE SHOULD HAVE LEAKED) and completely jumping to erroneous conclusions.

Everything in the movie worked and it was for a damn good reason. Joss stuck to his vision for once and a studio supported it.

Geez I am glad all you softies weren't overseeing production. Seems like you all would have watered down Joss' vision the same way those assholes at Fox did.

Suck it up. This movie is one hell of a ride and it runs you through every possible emotion. I left it happy, sad, elated, angry and exhausted.

Sounds like good fiction to me.

Maybe a Disney flick would be more up your alley next time.

sheesh!

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Friday, December 17, 2004 7:42 PM

TLACOOK

Terry,

I have no issue with those of you who feel a need to prepare or protect yourself.

My concern is the bile spewing forth from those who choose to make erroneous assumptions about the movie and about Joss.

Others may read it and get the wrong idea. To say that Joss does things like typical Hollywood is so wrong, it is laughable.

My point is that those who want picture perfect happy endings should go see a Lindsay Lohan flick and leave the tough stuff to the grown-ups.

I know this sounds cranky but, someone has to stand up for the integrity of what Joss is doing. It is his story and I have yet to see very many neatly wrapped up happy endings come from Joss.

What exactly are people expecting?

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:09 AM

DEWSHINE

Um, guys....this is Sci-Fi. Anything can, will, and does happen. So we lose a character, or two, or more .... What is to keep the big blue hand guys from say cloning them?

Really?

try to keep an open mind and look at where it could go.

As for everything else, This is closer to what Firefly was supposed to be, Ron Glass was not signed up for a full season anyhow, his was an added character from the beginning. If by chance he signs on for more, Joss will find a way to include him...end of discussion.

Check out the improved planetslam.com
Gallerys, massage boards, Chat and more...

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:13 AM

DARKJESTER

I too had worried about this possible reaction when I first heard about the movie. We (slightly rabid) fans have taken this show and allowed it to enter and change our lives. We love the characters, we can quote them at will, write fanfics about them, and feel like we KNOW them. Our dreams for the future of Serenity involved all 10 characters (Serenity herself included).

But this isn't our show, it's Joss' show. Anything he does with his creation is because it follows his vision for the show, whether we like it or not, understand it or not, or approve or not. We'll have to accept the changes being made to our personal views of the Firefly 'verse. Or we can stop being fans.

Will SERENITY be the best movie ever? No. But from all accounts it will be chock full of thrilling heroics, great dialogue, action, adventure, comedy, mortal peril, and tugs on our heartstrings. And I am still looking forward to seeing it whenever it is finally released.

EDIT: Wow! That didn't sound so pompous in my head....

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:48 AM

PURPLEBELLY

Quote:
Originally posted by DarkJester:
I too had worried about this possible reaction when I first heard about the movie.

I know what you mean, but I don't think we need to worry about its affect on the success of the movie. The trash-talking fans will still go to the movie and the new audience will be blissfully ignorant of the trash-talking. The carping sounds loud to us, but we have our heads in a very small bucket

... when did this become not funny?

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 8:03 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE

as i said earlier i am a spoiler whore,and i am still very sad to see walsh and book die BUT i still believe that this movie will be amazing.this is exactly the reason why i love joss because each death has affected HIS characters they have grown,if buffy was till in high school by season 7 guess who would have not been watching it?--me incase some of you dont know.angel was still affected by doyles death in season 5.in my own life i have lost loved ones,and those losses have shaped me into who i am,who i still am becoming.we evolve every day, every second because that is what living is whether we believe it or not.so for those who have already said they arent going to see this or dont think it's gonna be good----ease off. the wheel never stops turning.

"Hamsters is nice."

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 9:34 AM

BRUISERSMOM

I just read the posts after my post and am not persuaded to change my views.

I understand that Joss is driving the Firefly/Serenity bus but I'm not going to follow Joss down any road that he wants to take. I'll get off after my first viewing of the movie, if I don't like it and that's not a threat. It's a simple fact. I'm not one of those fans who will watch the movie 10 times just to see that another one is made. If I don't like Serenity, I will not care much if they make the rest of the trilogy because it's not a trilogy that I will want to see.

From what I've heard and seen of the movie so far, I'm going to be disappointed because of the ways in which it has changed the characters and the story line from what I came to love in the series.

Keep in mind, it was gorram F*X that shaped the series that a lot of us have come to love. I think that most fans are just upset with F*X for not promoting the show and for not sticking with it more. I didn't even know that it existed until I heard the commentary on an Angel DVD and I would have at least watched the pilot had I known that Joss had a another series on the air, since I liked Buffy and Angel.

I'll reserve final judgement for when I see the movie but right now, it's looking like I will end up sticking to my DVDs and some good fan fiction to supply my imagination about these characters and how their stories continue after Objects in Space.

So, do Kaylee and Simon get it on?

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 10:01 AM

PURPLEBELLY

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
So, do Kaylee and Simon get it on?

I don't know but JiltedToo answers this in the other spoiler thread.

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:25 PM

FORRESTWOLF

Jiltedtoo, can I ask you another question? Since I'm running an RPG campaign of my own, continuity with the Firefly 'Verse is important...

IS it a one-solar-system 'Verse, or do they clearly have FTL travel in the movie? Is that resolved?

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:25 PM

AUTOPILOT

I was at the screening in Chatsworth and found this site while searching for reviews of the film to see what other people thought. I am a serious Whedon fan and a bigger Firefly fan who has been lurking here since Tuesday. I went with my girlfriend and another friend who had seen 2 episodes but not a fan. He gave the movie an 8 out of 10. I'll tell you this, anyone who is a fan will not be disappointed. It is everything you could ever imagine it being and a little more. What got me to post are some other posters questioning the film. It's already solid. If I have one complaint it would be that it feels like it has 2 or 3 endings but I can't imagine much being taken out. Maybe some nipping and tucking to cut it down 10min, but that is about it.

What one has to question is can the marketing people turn a solid film into a blockbuster? It has the potential to be a great success if they can get people who know nothing about it into theaters.

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:50 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

The death of a character - or in this case, plural - doesn't surprise me. It's Joss. It's expected. In my mind, anyway.

What worries me is the difference between tv show characters dying and movie characters dying. In Joss' shows, you get the chance to fall in love with the characters week after week through the seasons, which makes their death really more... personal... emotional... I think is what I'm trying to say.

So, what I'd like to know from those of you who saw the screener is this:

If you had never seen Firefly, was there enough time and development through the film to get the audience to care enough about Wash or Book that their deaths could make the intended emotional impact? Or would they just be seen by the general public as meaningless cannon fodder, like the cliché red-shirted newbie on Star Trek away missions? Especially with so many characters to keep track of....

Maybe it'll be too hard for you to make an unbiased assessment. I'm sure I'll be crying like a little sissy girl, but those will definitely be biased tears because I've had the time to grow to love each of those characters. (Except Simon

.)

I love Joss' work cuz, frankly, he can make it hurt so good. But I find the general (American) public not so wanting of that kind of thing, which makes me fear for the success of Serenity (even though it's gonna be the best movie ever

).

无党派人士

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:30 PM

TERRYO

So, here's the weird thing - I agree and disagree with you.

I agree that it is Joss's story and that anyone who is a fan knows that he doesn't play fair with characters that we come to love.

Where I disagree with you is that when Joss looked at softening Firefly -well, Mal - or not getting it on the air, he compromised. And that is what current fans are going to expect to see on the screen. I think this is a reasonable expectation. If he can convince us that there are good reasons for this darker tone (on-screen), then we'll be okay with it. I guess you know whether or not that is the case. (Can I say I hate you and your fellow screener viewers? pure, sheer jealousy)

But to make it dark just because he can, well, storytelling is a two-way street. As much as it might frustrate him, that's the way it is, and not everyone is going to want to go down that path with him. It wouldn't be the first fandom to split because of a turn in creative direction but I'd hate to see it happen to Firefly.

I actually became a Joss fan because of
Buffy season 6, which is just about as dark as they come. I'm not opposed to him leaving me emotionally battered but there has to be some kind of pay-off. Which for Firefly (IMO), would be Mal getting closer to some kind of healing and this is not what I'm sensing from the spoilers.

So, as much as I love wisecracking characters, it's the ones like Book that the verse needs. MAL needed Book in the story we know so far, whether he admitted it or not. (Okay, I like Book just for himself, too. And his hair. ) Now it sounds like all bets are off. I'm having mixed feeling about that and will until I see how it plays out.

terry

p.s. I'm actually curious now if Angel's cancellation intensified Serenity's already darker tone.

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

[snipped for space]

I know this sounds cranky but, someone has to stand up for the integrity of what Joss is doing. It is his story and I have yet to see very many neatly wrapped up happy endings come from Joss.

What exactly are people expecting?

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:05 PM

TLACOOK

Terry,

The payoffs are there. None of the darkness is "just because Joss can". It all serves a purpose and causes character growth. In Mal and in others.

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:12 PM

TERRYO

I feel much better now. Thank you.

Of course, now I feel kind of silly worrying about Mal, who is a figment of Joss's imagination when all is said and done. But what can you expect from someone who got all choked up at Spike's poetry reading?

I was also more worried than I thought about HBO/Showtime/big screen syndrome. For example, JMS was about as hot as Joss when B5 was going strong. Then later came Jeremiah, an interesting concept that was just too, well, vulgar for me to invest in, especially to pay for the privilege. And I did sub to Showtime for a while just for that show.

I'm not a prude but the f-word (or c-word or gratuitous nudity) has no appeal for me. I tolerate it if balanced by good writing and acting but give me good old bloody, smegging, frelling hell anyday. :-) (The Chinese cussing gives me headaches to try to type out.)

terry (who is now trying hard not to think about the River angle. kick-ass girls, ho hum, haven't we been there, done that?)

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

The payoffs are there. None of the darkness is "just because Joss can". It all serves a purpose and causes character growth. In Mal and in others.

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:25 PM

TLACOOK

Not like this, we haven't...

hee hee

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Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:53 PM

AUTOPILOT

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
If you had never seen Firefly, was there enough time and development through the film to get the audience to care enough about Wash or Book that their deaths could make the intended emotional impact? Or would they just be seen by the general public as meaningless cannon fodder, like the cliché red-shirted newbie on Star Trek away missions? Especially with so many characters to keep track of....

Hard to say, honestly I can never get enough of Wash or Book and the problem with such a good ensemble cast is that 120 min isn't enough time for all of them. I'll say Books screen time is limited, but memorable. I think what needs to be more developed is the relationship between Wash and Zoe although even if it's left the way it is things would be "ok." You can rest asured nobody in the cast is meaningless cannon fodder.

Regarding River: She is spectacular through in through in so many ways. It will blow your mind.

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Monday, December 20, 2004 10:22 AM

CHOSEN1

Quote:
Originally posted by BruisersMom:
I wondered if anyone else noticed that Joss's shows just get dark and serious after a while and that he gets rid of the really fun characters. I also wondered if anyone else is as turned off by Joss's shows when they make that turn as I am. I didn't buy the fourth season of Angel or the seventh season of Buffy because they were too dark and serious and now Mal is dark and Wash is dead in Serenity. Inara is gone and Book is dead. That only leaves Kaylee around to lighten things up. Does anyone else find a problem with that situation cropping up in a Joss show again?

Okay, I almost feel blasphemous saying this, but yeah. I only watched the last few seasons of Angel on and off because of work, but I would often think, "Why can't someone get a break around there".

I think there needs to be a few happy people on board. I know sadness is more dramatic, but since we all live a little vicariously through our favorite characters, it really sucks when the crap just piles on and on...and on like that.

Who knows, Maybe Kaylee and Simon will get married and have some cute, fat fugitive babies. That would make me happy.

First you want to kill me, now you want to kiss me...Blow

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Monday, December 20, 2004 11:00 AM

SNIPER

Just out of curiosity is the opening handled? How do they do that?

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Monday, December 20, 2004 11:22 AM

JILTEDTOO

Quote:
Originally posted by Forrestwolf:
Jiltedtoo, can I ask you another question? Since I'm running an RPG campaign of my own, continuity with the Firefly 'Verse is important...

IS it a one-solar-system 'Verse, or do they clearly have FTL travel in the movie? Is that resolved?

There is a scene in the movie where river points to a navigational map, which is a star map, and identifies a planet that she *needs* to visit. So I would have to say that it is a question of Faster then Light travel and not just planets in one solar system.

JT

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Monday, December 20, 2004 11:24 AM

JILTEDTOO

Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
Just out of curiosity is the opening handled? How do they do that?

The opening was not complete during the screener. The score has not even been finished, and a large portion of the special effects.

JT

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Monday, December 20, 2004 11:32 AM

SNIPER

What did they have that you guys saw?

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Monday, December 20, 2004 11:54 AM

JILTEDTOO

Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
What did they have that you guys saw?

Just jumped into the movie. No theme song.

JT

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Monday, December 20, 2004 4:31 PM

RIVERGIRL

I need spoilers

how does .... die?

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:49 AM

GLORYBE

Hey, can anyone give me any details about River@s action scenes??

Pleasey-weasey??

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:56 PM

SNIPER

Quote:
Originally posted by Jiltedtoo:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
What did they have that you guys saw?

Just jumped into the movie. No theme song.

JT

That's a shame. I was hoping that they'd put that in. Maybe for the credits

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Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:12 PM

TLACOOK

All the music we got was temporay and just thrown in. From what I understand possibly none of it will be in the final cut.

What we saw was really raw.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:58 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

lucky people

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:10 AM

TERRYO

I agree, please tell how ... dies. As much as I was irritated by ST:TNG on a regular basis, in ?? Yesterday's Enterprise, I think?? I was genuinely moved when Tasha asked Guinan if her death in the other universe was meaningful.

There's enough senseless death out here in the real world...while it's just a valid as anything else as a plot twist, it isn't what I want for my - oops - Mal's crew.

Terry

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:25 AM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:

- A (regular Firefly) character dies along the journey.

That seriously sucks!

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:27 AM

TERRYO

{sigh} I won't accuse Joss of pandering to any specific target demographic but one reason I liked FF:TS is that there were enough layers to the story that almost any viewer could find something of interest. While the guys were drooling over Inara, Kaylee and River, some of us were actually into the story. And not even watching Nathan naked more than a few {*cough*dozen*cough*} times.

The Matrix was boring and convoluted. If I want convoluted I'd watch Being John Malkovich again. Kill Bill, well, most adult women don't think QT is god. Crouching Tiger was cool but not memorable a few years later. (FX don't impress me, obviously.) Some of us actually like tv better than movies, just for that reason...

terry (who probably offended most of guys she knows with this post)

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Not like this, we haven't...

hee hee

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 8:16 AM

TLACOOK

Terry,

There is no pandering. I am a 36 year old straight woman who is now head over heels in love with Summer Glau.

I even went to a red carpet event and screamed like an idiot last week when she appeared.

If, Joss is pandering, it is to thirtysomething women.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 11:10 AM

TERRYO

LOL. I can live with that. As long as the pandering is in the right direction. {g}

So, is she really that good? I don't have anything against the actress but more River onscreen most likely means less Mal. (Not a good thing, imnsho.) Can you part with a River spoiler to illustrate? And do we find out why her parents were so uninterested in her fate while Simon was frantic?

What I really need (other than a bootleg of the screener and a copy of the script) is a nice long series of Firefly novels. Which shouldn't be that difficult, considering how many good writers there were on staff.

Or even a book like the Highlander people did, A Night at Joe's, I think is the name. All of the staff (that wanted to, presumably, including the actors) did small pieces. (I keep trying to put it on half.com but cant bear to part with it.)

Or Firefly back on tv where it is supposed to be.

terry

Quote:
Originally posted by tlacook:
Terry,

There is no pandering. I am a 36 year old straight woman who is now head over heels in love with Summer Glau.

I even went to a red carpet event and screamed like an idiot last week when she appeared.

If, Joss is pandering, it is to thirtysomething women.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:02 PM

TLACOOK

She really is that good and Mal's screen time is not diminished one bit. The stars of the movie are pretty much Nathan and Summer.

We get to kinda understand where River is coming from and get to cheer for her instead of thinking, "My, that girl is kinda crazy".

No backstory on the parents. Sorry. But there is River/Simon backstory.

Books will be coming but, unfortunately not until after the movie. They will help with the wait for the sequel.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:01 PM

BAMBOOANIME

Figured as much. Good thing I never had strong attachments to Book.

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:02 PM

MSCKAREN

Thanks for this. I love the spoilers!! I had read in another review about the deaths and Mal's "dark turn".

I wanted to read the whole thread before posting so I lost track of the person who said it wasn't a scene of him shooting a woman and child. This is what I read in a review of one of the screenings. If this is not the "dark turn" from your screening, could you please specify what you thought illustrated Mal's darkness in the screening you saw?

Even if it's not in the final version, it's interesting to see how JW's mind works. Well, for me, it's interesting. I'm not expecting happy endings - I've been a JW fan for way to long to even consider it a possibility. And at this point, I must admit, happy endings would just make the verse a boring place!

Is it possible that after seeing the final version of the movie, I might even say, "Wow, sure am glad they cancelled the show so I could get this movie!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Friday, May 6, 2005 9:41 PM

FIREFLUNKY

New to this board. Checking to see if I can do the black text thing before I post.

Select to view spoiler:

Is this text black?

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Friday, May 6, 2005 10:11 PM

FIREFLUNKY

I just went to the Austin screening last night. Both Ron Glass & Nathan Fillion were there. Of course, Ron Glass got a few questions about his role in the movie. He shared this little tidbit.

Select to view spoiler:

Ron Glass said Joss called him up and said. "I've got some good news and some bad news. The good news is: we're making a Firefly movie, and you're in it. The bad news is: you die." But Ron went on to mention that Joss told him that "anything can happen in space. You've got holograms, genetic engineering, prequels, sequels, etc." Ron ended his comment by saying "So I don't think we've seen the last of Book!"

Also, as far as Mal's darker side

Select to view spoiler:

I never saw a scene where he shoots a mother and child. In the version I saw, he shoots a bank security guard who refused to hide in the vault with the other people in the bank. The Reavers show up while they're robbing it, Mal won't let him into their vehicle, but shoots him in the head when the Reavers start to eat him. (Maybe it used to be a mother & child but they changed it to a security guard after the first screenings.)

About the cast deaths

Select to view spoiler:

Book's death I sort of saw coming. But Wash. I had no idea. It just comes so suddenly and out of nowhere. Of course, I hated to see Wash die (I'm still slightly depressed) but I can see why Joss did it. It avoids the whole Star Trek, everybody's safe except for this one random guy in a red shirt who you've never met and don't care about so we're going to kill him to give you a sense of danger, except that it really doesn't because we still know nothing will happen to any main characters that we care about. I have to admit, after Wash died, I thought anything could happen. At any given moment I thought Zoe was going to die, then Kaylee, then Simon, then River, and it even looked like Mal might die at the end. I don't think this tension would have been created without the sacrifice of Wash. Think of the first time you saw Psycho, and Janet Leigh gets stabbed in the shower. You keep thinking "There's no way she's really dead. She's the main character. She can't die." And eventually you have to accept the fact that she really is dead. Were people mad at Hitchcock for this? Of course. Does it make it a better movie? Absolutely.

Other random stuff

Select to view spoiler:

Nothing more on Book's backstory. Tons on River's backstory (that's basically what the movie plot centers around) and we see how Simon rescued her. Kaylee and Simon finally do it! Mal and Inarra smile at each other and sort of admit feelings for each other (that's about all Mal can give at this point). And we find out the origin of the Reavers.

That's about it for you spoiler junkies. Enjoy. All in all, I thought it was a great film. It did a wonderful job summing up the characters, political situation, backstories, and relationships in about the first 5 minutes (no kidding). This is done skillfully and never seems like clumsy exposition, so I think people who have never seen the show could really enjoy the movie. Here's hoping!

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:13 PM

KESTREL

My thoughts exactly... if Joss has done what it sounds like he's done (from about 6 different spoiler reviews I've read), then for me, Firefly began and ended with the first season and Serenity (the movie, not the pilot) will not exist.

Joss... if it's true, then you took my sky from me.

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