How much are you willing to except? by everyworldspinnin

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

How much are you willing to except?

POSTED BY: EVERYWORLDSPINNIN
UPDATED: Thursday, April 28, 2005 17:56
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VIEWED: 4913
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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:50 PM

Well, now that the trailer is out, it seems as though Sept. 30th can't get here fast enough for us Browncoats. But, after seeing the trailer in all it's glory, I'm bugged by a nagging question, and I'm wondering how other FFF readers feel.

How much of a difference are you willing to accept between the stories, characters, plots, etc. from Firefly to Serenity?

Before I share my thoughts on this, let me just say that I think it will not be possible to have a "literal" translation between Firefly and Serenity. It's just the nature of the difference between making a TV show, and making a major motion picture. I certainly don't want to sound as if I'm judging the film before I see it. It's just that I'm passionate about the show (as I know you all are) and maybe just a little overprotective of it.

That said, it's always been my fear that the movie may not live up to the greatness of the show. I think of it as kind of a blessing and curse that the Firefly 'Verse was so richly crafted. As an on-going TV show, there was lots to explore. Plenty of nooks and crannys to crawl into. This is evident by the posts on this board, and that after all this time after it's cancellation, we are still talking about it.

But, it's blessing serves as it's potential curse. Can something as robust as Firefly be adequately addressed in a two hour movie for the show's diehard fans? Think about it. Would Star Wars have been a great film, if it were a TV show first? If you had gotten very involved in the lives of it's characters, only to see things crammed into a much shorter time frame when the film came out?

Now throw into the mix any changes that needed to be made to make it into a film. While large space battles do appeal to me, the confined quarters of Firefly's Serenity are what got me hooked in the first place. I'd hate to see the quality of the characters and their relationships with each other be sacrificed for the sake of epicness.

So, let me answer my own question: I don't know.

I think back to The Lord Of The Rings, and how the films were different than the books. Some of the robustness had to be stripped out in order to make it filmable. However, the spirit of the books was well preserved and I felt the films were great, so I know it can be done. I hope Serenity falls into this vein as well.

Here's to hope.

Thanks,
Wes

"I am a large, semi-muscular man..."

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:00 PM

THEGREYJEDI

accept. How much are we willing to accept.

And I don't think there's going to be a character change. It's the same writer. It's going to be a little darker than the series, but that's because Joss envisioned a dark world. Fox made Joss make Mal more sarcastic, less moody. They made Joss make Jayne more goofy, less mercenary. What we will see in Serenity is the way it was really meant to be before Fox got a hold of it. I quiver with anticip-

...

...

(Say it!)

...

-pation.

And all of you can get over the sound in space. Sci-fi has always had sound in space. We lauded Firefly for the realism of no sound in space. But on the big screen, in the fast pace of a single movie, the pacing just can't afford silence.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE.
http://www.jed-soft.com Gamer Rigs, Budget Prices
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

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Wednesday, April 27, 2005 8:26 PM

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

Quote:
Originally posted by TheGreyJedi:
accept. How much are we willing to accept.

Thanks for pointing out the typo. I really need to not post at nearly 1 am. :(

"I am a large, semi-muscular man..."

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:31 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I'll let you know next Friday morning as soon as I get back from Austin.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:00 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:
Now throw into the mix any changes that needed to be made to make it into a film. While large space battles do appeal to me, the confined quarters of Firefly's Serenity are what got me hooked in the first place. I'd hate to see the quality of the characters and their relationships with each other be sacrificed for the sake of epicness.

Having seen the movie, I can safely say:

You are worrying too much. Honestly.

If the movie was too epic, or bad, or whatever: I'd say. Having seen the movie about 2 months ago now, I can safely say I'm STILL obsessing about all the little details, the hints, the ongoing story lines (some things are left hanging on purpose)....

You know the big space battle? Do you think Serenity will be flying around with lazer guns and missles? Nah. It's all about being confined, and seeing the characters in real emotional peril.

Serenity is basically, as far as I'm concerned, a couple of really excellent Firefly episodes tacked together with a huge budget and lots of time spent on it. You know those Joss episodes which are _really_ well written, well directed, advance the plot and blow your mind? That's Serenity. I'm not kidding.

The people I was with (fans) left the cinema shaking. You don't do that if it was in any way bad.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:15 AM

MSCKAREN

My personal strategy is to separate the two.

There was a great series called Firefly once.

There is a great movie coming out called Serenity.

I didn't expect the series to be movie quality, althought it had a few epic moments!

I don't expect the movie to give me indepth stories on 9 separate characters. Just not the nature of the movie beast.

Heres my analogy: I love chocolate. Sometimes I have cocoa and sometimes I have chocolate ice cream. I enjoy them both but don't expect them to give me the same experience. Dong ma?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've canceled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:11 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by WhoIsRiver:
Having seen the movie, I can safely say:

You are worrying too much. Honestly.

If the movie was too epic, or bad, or whatever: I'd say. Having seen the movie about 2 months ago now, I can safely say I'm STILL obsessing about all the little details, the hints, the ongoing story lines (some things are left hanging on purpose)....

You know the big space battle? Do you think Serenity will be flying around with lazer guns and missles? Nah. It's all about being confined, and seeing the characters in real emotional peril.

Serenity is basically, as far as I'm concerned, a couple of really excellent Firefly episodes tacked together with a huge budget and lots of time spent on it. You know those Joss episodes which are _really_ well written, well directed, advance the plot and blow your mind? That's Serenity. I'm not kidding.

The people I was with (fans) left the cinema shaking. You don't do that if it was in any way bad.

WIR,

Your comments are reassuring, but I can't help but sympathize with the original post. I'm pretty certain, based on your comments and others, that I'm going to like the movie a hell of a lot. The thing is, for some of us, what made Firefly so special was the way it avoided so many of the common gimmicks featured in sci-fi, especially televised sci-fi.

It was the anti-Trek. It was small, dirty and featured characters who were really more-or-less average people pushed into extreme circumstances. These were people you could hang with. Even down to the cinematography and sound editing - the show made you feel as if you were there.

More than that, the characters faced problems I could relate to. I've been stranded in the middle of the night on a lonesome stretch of highway with a broken-down car (with my two sons in the back seat no less), wondering exactly who was behind those headlights coming my way. For much of my life I've had to take, "any job, anywhere" to make ends meet and "keep flying". These are the kinds of things that drove Firefly forever into my heart.

Now, Firefly was more than that, I know. But the things I'm describing are the elements of the show most likely to be left out of the movie. Even if they are included, they surely won't be developed in the casual, seemingly off-hand way that they were in the series. There just isn't the time.

I've no doubt the movie will blow us all away. Joss's determination to keep Firefly alive has won me over, and made him something of a personal hero in the process. I implicitly trust his talent and integrity. But there will be elements of the series sacrificed in the move to the big screen and, especially if the trailer is any indication, those seem likely to be the elements that I liked the most. It's tough NOT to worry a little.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

P.S. The original spelling makes more sense than you might think.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:36 AM

STATIC

There's ONE key thing that makes Serenity still very much "Firefly", and very much NOT like your standard Sci-Fi fare...and, interestingly enough, why it's different even from the other two shows Joss created.

The crew are out for themselves...and, of course, River.

I don't think they're out to save the world. . .

I don't think they're out to right some mighty injustice. . .

I don't think it's a matter of, "We're all that stands between all we believe in and (insert holy terror here). . .

I get the impression that if they are out to 'warn the Alliance of the impending doom brought on by Reavers' which is only my PERSONAL theory. . . that there is a distinct personal stake in it.

Jayne and Mal both sum it all up...

"I aim to misbehave."

"Let's be bad guys."

Our heroes ARE the bad guys. In the STRICTEST sense, at least. They're not 'good guys who were wronged' like the standard sci-fi goes. . .they're not out to 'clear their name'. . .hell, they're NOT EVEN as good as Robin Hood. They rob from the rich and. . .well. . .they rob from the rich.

The only other movie to MY recollection that does the same is "Payback" with Mel Gibson.

Anyhow. . .that's MY opinion.

I could be wrong.

==================================================
http://burstsofstatic.blogspot.com/

Evil, Lecherous Hump

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I'm willing to accept a trade off from what we grew accustom to in the t.v. show for what we'll get in return from the BDM. In time, we'll see the return of some of the feeling of Firefly, but only in measured amounts. That's my best guess.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 3:53 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
But there will be elements of the series sacrificed in the move to the big screen and, especially if the trailer is any indication, those seem likely to be the elements that I liked the most. It's tough NOT to worry a little.

I have trouble understanding the worry,
is it a self-protection against setting your expectations so high (you think) they can't be met?

It is true that there were some episodes of Whedonverse shows that I didn't adore, but notably they weren't written and/or directed by Joss Whedon....

This is HIS movie, a fulfillment of his vision, without Fox trying to 'improve' it (at least JW said many times that Universal did not interfere) and I am willing to give myself over to his storytelling.

The lack of comedy and character development in the trailer doesn't mean it is missing from the film - it is ONLY a trailer! When has JW ever disappointed with the comedy and character development? He has managed to get those things into the comic books for heaven's sake!

Okay, I'm preaching to the choir here, and it is silly...we all have our own doubts and worries (mine is that I'll have an accident of some sort that will keep me away from Chicago on May 5th!)

Enjoy!
Maribeth (embers)

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:19 AM

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

I would not be surprised in the least to see a schizm develop between the small screen traditionalists and the folks willing to embrace the movie and the show as two similar-but-slightly-different entities.

I'm of the latter. I love the show immensely. It's awesome, it's groundbreaking, you've heard this all before. But the movie is going to blow our minds...and maybe it's just me, but I'm not going to get hung up over sound in space or slightly different outfits, or a mule that hovers. I was when I first heard of it, but I'm over that. I'm onboard for the adventure.

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!

Read My Words:
http://norcalriviera.blogspot.com

San Jose Area Browncoats:
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SiliconGulchBrowncoats

"Well, no more running." -Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity Trailer

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 4:37 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:
It was small, dirty and featured characters who were really more-or-less average people pushed into extreme circumstances. These were people you could hang with. Even down to the cinematography and sound editing - the show made you feel as if you were there.

The movie does, too. The trailer doesn't. It needs to mass appeal, and it doesn't have time to get into steady cam.

Here's one example about the movie - which isn't spoilery, this is about the creative process.

- The movie has a 5 minute 'steadycam' character introduction early on, where the camera walks all over Serenity, shows you it, and introduces all the characters interacting. It's very shaky. It has the group. It has intimet bits. It has humour. At that moment, you feel part of the crew. There's no cutting. No editing. 5 minutes it runs, with everybody giving pitch perfect performances whilst the camera gets shaken all over the place as they are entering atmo.

That's one example. The movie makes you feel like you are on board.

And yes: the crew are pushed to really extreme circumstances they never wanted to be in.

Still worried? Don't be.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:42 AM

CALLMEATH

I just realized:

MariBeth = MB

MBers=Embers?

Am I right?

Now, I'm not the least bit worried about the movie. I trust Joss to make one damn fine film. I've always wondered what Joss's original vision would have been like, and now we get to see it. So for me, no worries.

"Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants. The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!"

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:49 AM

CLIOMUSE

Quote:
That's one example. The movie makes you feel like you are on board.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Reading your comment on the character introductions gave me the same sort of goose bumps seeing the trailer did. For me, Firefly has always been about being there. There here and now feel of the ship, the crew, the situations. I trust Joss and his brilliant cast to take this where it needs to go.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:38 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Cliomuse:
Quote:
The movie makes you feel like you are on board.

For me, Firefly has always been about being there.

I am excited about that too...
I rewatch the DVDs because I love spending the time onboard 'Serenity' and enjoying the crew,
I am looking forward to the movie expanding that for me!

And Callmeath: You are exactly right, I have always been called 'MB' by my friends...
until someone started calling me 'embers' and I thought that that would make a nice board-name.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 6:38 AM

WHOISRIVER

Quote:
Thank you. Thank you so much.

No problems. Another thing.

I want to mention how one of the most pivital scenes of the movie (and the whole Firefly universe so far) is filmed.

I'm going to spoiler tag this. It doesn't say what happens at all - it just mentions the film making way it's shot. Some people might not want to know. I don't think any of you will be upset knowing this, though:

Select to view spoiler:

The truth all comes out... And we see the characters stand and take it in. No CGI. No excessive music. No over acting. Just Mal and the gang... standing. With the look "Fucccccccccccccccccccck" on all their faces as they realise... well, everything.

Again. You feel like you're stood there with them, in one of those 'This is SO fucked up' moments of YOUR life.

Anybody suggesting this is going to be a Big Budget shoot 'em up explosion crappy movie is _way_ off base. I'm amazed people are dismissing things like 'the black guys' character, without even seeing what it's about.

It's how Joss _wanted_ to make Firefly, but never could. Watch it before you decide you don't like the idea, please. I've not heard a single fan (at all) who's seen the test screenings be disappointed. That says something.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:17 AM

SERGEANTX

Wow! Thanks so much for the insightful comments. You really have set my petty worries aside.

Keep Flying!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:21 AM

LADYDISDAIN

I definitely agree that the deciding factor here is that Joss wrote and directed this film. It's an interesting question, though: If it doesn't match our vision... how much are we entitled to complain? (And frankly, at this early stage, why would we want to?)

I have no doubt. Not one. I think the trailer is perfect and wouldn't change a thing. Consider this: While we may watch it thirty times (in slow-motion), most people are going to see it once or twice, probably on the big screen in front of something palatable this summer. When most of us watched that trailer -the first time-, we were blown away. Enough to say, at the very least, "Yeah, I'll shell out the approximately $10-$15 to go check that out." And I think most of us used a lot more expletives than that.

Loath though I am to admit it, we learned something from FOX. Ratings make a difference. It sucks, but there you go. The film-equivalent is that opening weekend at the box office. The trailer is not designed to sell the film to those of us who are already standing in line -- it's to draw in those extra numbers. It has to sell big on opening weekend to be considered anything other than a sleeper hit. If enough people see the film off the top, word of mouth takes over -- like it did for that other film about pirates...

Besides which, this first trailer needs to counter-balance a title that suggests something quite other -- "Serenity" is not a title that evokes the rapid-fire dialogue, the wit, the avant garde camera work and the roughhousing that come with it. (Note that this is in no way a criticism of the title, just a view on marketing.)

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 7:22 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

You know...hoenstly, and not to step on any errant toes here, but there's a lot I'm willing to accept...I mean Mal could actually blow Jayne out the airlock, run out himself, and both could have a lightsaber duel on Serenity's hull without spacesuits for all of me. I get to see my big damn heroes, played by my favorite actors again!
Jayne is going to be surly, River is going to be crazy(er), Simon is going to be tense, Wash is going to be a smartass, Mal is going to be a badass, Book...is going to be Book, Inara and Kaylee and Zoe (and River) are going to be hot! The pieces were all still there, they were just waiting for the right someone to pick them up and put them back together again. And you know that's just what Joss has done.
To me, that trailer was like falling in love again with something I already had an immense infatuation with already! And, I can't wait...So bring it on...whatever, punk rock instead of Western Twang, River is really Jack the Ripper, Jayne and Simon let Book marry them in a public ceremony...Don't care...not in the least...As soon as Serenity flies again, it will all be worth it!

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:06 AM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyDisdain:
The film-equivalent is that opening weekend at the box office. The trailer is not designed to sell the film to those of us who are already standing in line -- it's to draw in those extra numbers. It has to sell big on opening weekend to be considered anything other than a sleeper hit. If enough people see the film off the top, word of mouth takes over -- like it did for that other film about pirates...

Uh, just so everyone understands, one of the other important indicators is how much it makes on its second weekend in comparison to the opening weekend. If there is a significant drop, it's considered a failure. If there's an increase, then it's a significant success. (A number of movies have had good opening weekends then virtually nothing after that, so they were considered failures.)

So, when we all go see it again, I'd highly recommend that we give it a couple shots that first weekend, then go see it again the next weekend.

Just something to think about... and work into your plans.

Rabit

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:12 AM

LADYDISDAIN

Hence the word of mouth thing -- if we want a second weekend, there has to be a first weekend to get the word out. Sorry, guess I wasn't too clear. Trailer to sell the first weekend; after that, the film's going to have to stand up for itself. Somehow I think it'll manage.

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 12:27 PM

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

Wow! Tons of great replies! I guess I was looking for someone to allay my concerns. I certainly feel better.

True, repeat viewings are key to any movie's success. Given the fact that repeat orders for the DVD sets were very high, this should not be a problem, although most were probably for loaner sets. I have no doubt the Browncoats will make the opening weekend a success. And the next one.... And the next one.....

Thanks to all for getting involved.

Stay Shiny!
Wes

_____________________________________________________
"I am a large, semi-muscular man..."

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:27 PM

DIEGO

After I levered my jaw off the ground I had one possible worry from the trailer.

I don't think we'll have to deal with too many compromises. It does look like there will be sound in space, and I'm a little grieved about that. It wasn't just a good scientific decision in the show. It was a good artistic decision that they used very well several times.

But you know what? I think I can sit back and just deal with it. :)
Sound in space and cinema-physics haven't hurt my appreciation of other sci-fi movies (unless it really stretched credibility enough to take me out of the moment).

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:34 PM

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

OK, this pretty much confirms what whoisriver has been saying. I don't know if this was posted elsewhere, but the link was on Whedonesque. No spoilers here, just a taste of what to expect.

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=20057

"I am a large, semi-muscular man..."

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Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:56 PM

ANQ

Actually, static, i believe they rob from the rich and SELL to the poor. Supporting the "bad Guy" point even more...

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