SPOILER ALERT - UNPOPUL by Knibblet

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

SPOILER ALERT - UNPOPUL

POSTED BY: KNIBBLET
UPDATED: Monday, June 27, 2005 01:05
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VIEWED: 4736
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Friday, June 24, 2005 6:54 AM

Deus ex Machina or God from Machine.

An unbelievable or supernatural way of progressing a plot. A cheap plot device.

Sorry folks, but "Mr Universe" is a cheap plot device - why this Deus ex Machina was written into Serenity (by one of the best writers of our time) makes no sense at all.

Mr. Universe and his gigantic broadcasting station in space appear to be there simply to entertain some schmuck who can't get a real girl to sleep with him -- and to provide Serenity a reason to bring the Reavers to the Alliance.

Miranda was plug-and-play. It had power and infrastrucure. As the crew moved around, power and lights came on. They could have gone to an Alliance broadcasting station and sent out the video and it is there that the Reavers attacked. However, this would have deprived us of the Reaver Alliance superbowl in space and Mal & the Operative having their fisticuffs in the station's basement. ** kick ass scenes but NOT necessary without the Deus ex Machina **

I don't get it? What could have been a solid, perfect story is now hinged upon people accepting that the Alliance (a totalitarian government) would put up with some guy who intercepts EVERY broadcast from EVERYWHERE and has the ability to send ANYTHING to ANYBODY at ANY TIME.

Governments are tetchy to begin with. They get super tetchy with folks who can beat them at their own game. Mr. Universe served no function other than to provide Serenity's crew with a cortex connect. His communications station would have been smashed long before the buffy bot faked her first orgasm.

Just my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm not going to see Serenity 11 or 12 times and then buy the DVD.

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Friday, June 24, 2005 7:03 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

The Government of Firefly, as shown in the series seems to be pretty tolerant of a lot of things...most notably, known criminals such as Patience or Badger, holding some kind of social prominence...okay, not Badger, but Patience, definitely. It kinda plays into the bigger message of the film about control. This is the same govt that lets the Reavers roam free to rape and pillage as they see fit, but had a long, drawn out war with a group that only wanted to have a little more independence? This is the same govt that allows a girl that has obivously been tampered with in a scientific sense get kidnapped and then can't seem to locate her? I can see where you would say that it is highly implausible that they would let Mr. Universe alone to do what he does...But, they apparently also let Niska, a man with his own Skyplex over Georgia deal clandestinely (though not enough to keep down a reputation) in large criminal dealings. How do you explain that? Its not like they don't know where he is, and what he's up to...Same with Mr. Universe.

At least, that's the way I saw it...

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Friday, June 24, 2005 7:10 AM

CARDIE

The device is called a "deus ex machina."

"Deus" is "god" in Latin.

"Deux" is "two" in French.

There's an epidemic of this confusion on the internet. People apparently slide the "x" from "ex" over to the end of the word preceding it and obliterate the "s" from "deus." It's one of my pet peeves.

Cardie

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Friday, June 24, 2005 7:15 AM

KNIBBLET

Correction taken. I'll go back and edit: However, but my wacky fun brain is telling me that somewhere in the Gregg's Reference Manual, I was told that both are exceptable.

We all know ...
... "shows that have 'X' in the title get higher ratings."

"I'm gonna rip you a new puppet hole, bitch!"

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Friday, June 24, 2005 7:16 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I didn't care much for the character of "Mr Universe" either. Was he necessary? Maybe to a small extent, but not in the way he was presented in the BDM.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

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Friday, June 24, 2005 9:16 AM

WHOISRIVER

Mr Universe was a plot device. Yep.

That's all.

TheInside.org - Firefly Producers NEW TV series

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Friday, June 24, 2005 9:31 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I didn't care much for the character of "Mr Universe" either. Was he necessary?

Personally I loved Mr. Universe,
I thought he was a comment/spoof on the bloggers of today who give themselves over-the-top names (Hercules?!)
and pass on information all over the web,
but of course the 'web' of 500 years from now is more impressive...
so IMO he served a number of purposes
1. homage to bloggers who helped 'Firefly' as well as a bit of a laugh about them too
2. comic relief with the Buffybot character (and she is named Lenore, very Edgar Allen Poe, I thought)
3. plot devise for getting the information out while still getting the space battle in...

It all worked for me.

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Friday, June 24, 2005 11:05 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I didn't care much for the character of "Mr Universe" either. Was he necessary?

Personally I loved Mr. Universe,
I thought he was a comment/spoof on the bloggers of today who give themselves over-the-top names (Hercules?!)
and pass on information all over the web,
but of course the 'web' of 500 years from now is more impressive...
so IMO he served a number of purposes
1. homage to bloggers who helped 'Firefly' as well as a bit of a laugh about them too
2. comic relief with the Buffybot character (and she is named Lenore, very Edgar Allen Poe, I thought)
3. plot devise for getting the information out while still getting the space battle in...

It all worked for me.

Yep, I'm with you on all three points.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Friday, June 24, 2005 11:23 AM

BASSGRAVI

As for the alliance putting up with him the thing is that as far as I can tell, the alliance didn't really care. To use an analogy from a book where bug spray doesn't exist...
To the alliance, Mr.Universe was like one of many flies in a room. Do you kill every single fly you see in a room. Nope...you just ignore them...until they bite
then you swat them.
Mr. Universe wasn't actually interfering with the Alliance's plans until he agreed to help out that one last time. He was about to bite them, so they got him.
Not arguing with the he's just there for the plot thing, though.

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:39 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by Knibblet:
However, but my wacky fun brain is telling me that somewhere in the Gregg's Reference Manual, I was told that both are exceptable.

Acceptable - something that is allowed, appropriate.
Exceptable - not a word.

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 2:48 AM

DARKJESTER

SimonWho wrote:

Quote:
Acceptable - something that is allowed, appropriate.
Exceptable - not a word.

Exceptable: Capable of making, or being used to make, an exception.

Example: "I only wear sneakers." That means that my dress shoes are an exception to that rule, and are therefore exceptable.

OK, ok, I know it's not a word. But it should be!

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 4:20 AM

BIKISDAD

You're right, it should be. Things can be both accepted and excepted, so why shouldn't they be both acceptable and exceptable. But wait, there is the word "exceptionable", which basically carries the same intended meaning - just one of the mysteries of the English language, I guess.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:09 AM

SIMONWHO

But accepted and excepted mean two different things so surely exceptable would mean "something that can be excluded"?

Isn't English fun!

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 5:55 AM

BIKISDAD

You'd think so, wouldn't you? It's no wonder that foreigners have so much trouble learning this language. It has so many inconsistencies.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:38 PM

RETRO

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
But accepted and excepted mean two different things so surely exceptable would mean "something that can be excluded"?

Isn't English fun!

Let's not be excluding people. That would be rude.

"Just because I choose to wander, it doesn't mean that I am lost..."

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:43 PM

SIMONWHO

What if we acclude them instead?

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:57 PM

KNIBBLET

I wondered if you'd catch it.
Anal retentives unite!
Dyslexics untie!

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Acceptable - something that is allowed, appropriate.
Exceptable - not a word.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/MN-Firefly/

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 7:17 PM

CALCULATRIX

I liked Mr. Universe too, but I had one big problem with him. At the very end, I thought it was disrespectful to more important people's memories to have him suggested to be on the same level as certain more important people. Did that bug anyone else?

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Saturday, June 25, 2005 10:42 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I dislike the plot itself - expected better of Joss, to be honest.

I suspect his execution of it will be stellar, but instead of polishing a rusty bucket, might have been better to start with a fresh one.

Still firefly, still gonna kick butt, and still gonna pack the house, but we're spoiled I guess - having seen what Joss is capable of, some of us get pouty with less than that.

As for english? erhm, imma side with Jayne on that one, hell, I speak it badly enough, and I LIVE here, heh.

-F

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:53 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Calculatrix:
At the very end, I thought it was disrespectful to more important people's memories to have him suggested to be on the same level as certain more important people. Did that bug anyone else?

I felt that maybe Joss felt it would be more disrespectful to have the BDHs ignore Mr. U's sacrifice & death....
and leave us with the feeling that there may be some huge backstory (a history of the Serenity crew working with Mr. U in the past, so they've been friends for a long time even though we never got to see any of it). A backstory we might be told someday in comics...wood cuts or interpretive dance.

And Fremdfirma personally I thought the story kicked @ss!
I totally loved the explanation of the creation of the Reavers (one of the plots from Firefly that most needed explaining IMO).
WARNING - HUGE SPOILERS:

Select to view spoiler:

I loved that it was an attempt by the Gov't to alter the people into sinless perfect people.
Which seemed to me to be a commentary, a very subtle commentary, on attempts today to govern morality.
Plus the whole 'can't stop the signal' theme was full of metaphor:
for the way 'Firefly' couldn't be stopped because people spread the word, and the importance of free speech and a free internet.

Frankly I felt the plot was as good or better than any of the 'Firefly' episodes.
My only complaint?
I would have liked to have seen our BDHs sitting around the dinner table talking and laughing...
in fact I would have been happy if the whole two hours would have been just that.
Maybe Universal Pictures wouldn't have been so happy, but I would have.

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 3:11 AM

BIKISDAD

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

in fact I would have been happy if the whole two hours would have been just that.
Maybe Universal Pictures wouldn't have been so happy, but I would have.

Heh, heh. Many years ago, there was this little movie called "My Dinner With Andre" that consisted of just two guys sitting in a restaurant talking about "life" for two hours. It was fascinating, and it wasn't written as well as Joss could have written something like that. Yes, I'd also love to see a movie of all nine of our BDH's just having a nice long dinner conversation. That would be heaven.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:53 AM

DEANNAMAY

Most likely, after about 15 minutes, Jayne would say something just a little bit inappropriate, Mal would have him attend to his mouth and a food fight would arise. Simon and Inara would be looking at each other like "here we go again, and I am here again why?" Book,Kaylee and Wash would be attempting to calm people down. Jayne would be defending himself against Mal and his second when River decides to join in on father/Mal's side. Simon of course, would be at his sisters side instantly. Kaylee seeing Jayne mess up her man's usual neatly wardrobed self decides this might not be such a bad thing. Wash joins his wife with a really fierce brow wiping towel. Book decides to let the children play. Ending scene, Jayne grumbling to himself about being ganged up on as he mops up a very messy dining area. Loser gets to clean.

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:48 AM

CANDRA

I respectfully disagree with your premise. I think that the "show down" at Mr. Universe's was a necessary segment: you had the Aliance (one set of bad guys) versus the Reevers (another set of bad guys) and our crew represented the independent, "little guy" who always gets stuck in the middle while he tries his best to do what is right. It also became an emotion-evoking window where we saw our crew battling the impossible and doing it with courage, loyalty, and love for each other. They might die, but they would die a family. As for the scene in the basement, it came down to classic good versus evil and the one-man fight is one of the time-honored ways of showing it. Granted, Mr. Universe wasn't my favorite character, but he was a vehicle who got the movie to that last show down. Anyway, that's my opinion. I loved the sneak preview we just saw in Charlotte and was only upset twice (those of you who have seen a sneak peek know the two times I got upset - I don't want to spoil it for the rest of you.)

Candra

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 7:03 AM

CARDIE

Quote:

I totally loved the explanation of the creation of the Reavers (one of the plots from Firefly that most needed explaining IMO).

YES!!!

Select to view spoiler:

I had believed from Day #1 of Firefly that the Reavers were an Alliance experiment gone wrong, rather than just a bunch of folks who went crazy living too far out in the black. The fact that Reaver sounded so much like River always seemed to be a clue from Joss that the Alliance had a dangerous habit of screwing with people's heads.

Cardie

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Sunday, June 26, 2005 1:32 PM

CALCULATRIX

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

I felt that maybe Joss felt it would be more disrespectful to have the BDHs ignore Mr. U's sacrifice & death....
and leave us with the feeling that there may be some huge backstory (a history of the Serenity crew working with Mr. U in the past, so they've been friends for a long time even though we never got to see any of it). A backstory we might be told someday in comics...wood cuts or interpretive dance.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

Big spoilers:

Select to view spoiler:

A simple mention of Mr. Universe probably would have sufficed and I think it was made amply clear to non-fans that Wash, in particular, was an essential part of this core family and implying that Mr. Universe was just as important to the BDH's as Book and Wash is just plain wrong and confusing

On the other hand, I really liked the story too. It was in a number of ways different from how the show worked, but it should be- it's an entirely different medium. It's the same reason Peter Jackson reorganized The Two Towers from how it was split up in the book- some things work on screen and some just don't, and it's a surefire mark of an amature when you see a perfect adaptation of anything into a movie that doesn't quite work on the big screen.

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Monday, June 27, 2005 1:05 AM

EMBERS

Calculatrix: wrong and confusing to Fireflyflans, but would look appropriate to people seeing 'Serenity' without having watched the series....

Select to view spoiler:

In regards to just the movie, as a stand alone, Mr. U was apparently as important as Book (of course that isn't true to us...but even we don't know the entire history, there are a lot of years we know nothing about, maybe Mr. U has a history w/the BDHs we haven't been told about ... yet).

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