GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Inara was just practicing her religion ...

POSTED BY: ZOOT
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 22:35
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Tuesday, July 19, 2005 10:21 PM

ZOOT


Just been listening to the radio talking about how ‘Madrassa’ is the Pakistani word for a religious school or monastery …

So, if you follow my slightly twisted logic here, if Inara trained at House Madrassa, wouldn’t that make her a nun???

(All be it one with some funny yet surprisingly pleasing ideas about the practice of religion) …


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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:12 AM

EMBERS


in five hundred years the term has been expanded in it's meaning to encompus the training of Companions in a cloistered enviornment.

this is the beauty of saying '500 years in the future'...
language changes a lot
(in Shakespeare the term 'little death' meant orgasim...funny that that is the only example that I can think of at 7am? LOL)
customs change a lot
religion changes a lot!

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 2:55 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
...in Shakespeare the term 'little death' meant orgas(i)m...

When did it change, and to what?

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:11 AM

ZOOT


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
...in Shakespeare the term 'little death' meant orgas(i)m...

When did it change, and to what?



Quite

I think it's a very reasonable and accurate description of the experience ... both physically, mentally and even, occasionally, emotionally ....

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:12 AM

ZOOT


How's this for irony - when I posted my last comment this thread had been read 69 times! heheheheheeeeee!!

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:42 AM

SCOTTISHBROWNCOAT


It appears that there was certainly a ceremonial element to being a companion. In Heart of Gold, some of the "companions" heard sermons from the Shepherd, however they were not "True companions."

I would say that the Companion lifestyle could remind one of the "Sacred Prostitutes" of old Greco-Roman times. They would dwell in the temple and do what they did.
They were revered as being priestesses, and ushered Boys into Adulthood, fulfilled religious roles, etc.
It seems like the companion reflects this.

However, with it being 500 years into the future, there are differences, and while the Themes are similar, I don't know if there is an absolute religious element to being a companion.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:43 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
...in Shakespeare the term 'little death' meant orgas(i)m...

When did it change, and to what?



sorry about the misspelling...I'm terrible at that...
my understanding is that our term orgasm came from the French orgasme...which came from a Greek term

and Shakespeare would not have heard of the word 'orgasm' at all, just the ephemism

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:56 AM

ZOOT


Quote:


sorry about the misspelling...I'm terrible at that...
my understanding is that our term orgasm came from the French orgasme...which came from a Greek term

and Shakespeare would not have heard of the word 'orgasm' at all, just the ephemism



"ephemism"??

euphemism?? As in (also from the Greek) eu (well or auspicious) phemizein (to speak) ....

Surely Shakespere would have known the ancient greek orgasmos???



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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:08 AM

ZOOT


Quote:

Originally posted by ScottishBrownCoat:

I would say that the Companion lifestyle could remind one of the "Sacred Prostitutes" of old Greco-Roman times. They would dwell in the temple and do what they did.
They were revered as being priestesses, and ushered Boys into Adulthood, fulfilled religious roles, etc.
It seems like the companion reflects this.





I like your thinking on this, Scottish Browncoat ... It has all kinds of parallels ...

For one you get the sacred priestess types and your common whores, both providing essentially the same service but with very different reputations (see 5th century BC Corinth).

Plus whilst being revered as a goddess’ prostitute, you would still have little or no chance of marrying a decent man or having a normal life thereafter - you’d be pretty much condemned to look after the temple etc in old age …

This reminds me of the fact that although Inara is a “registered companion” and therefore respectable, there is a marked dichotomy between how people claim to see her and how she’s actually seen … I think Atherton Wing makes it clearest when, when provoked, he says:

“Money changed hands. Makes her mine
tonight. And no matter how you dress
her up, she's still—“

and you just know there’s only one way to finish that sentence!!

Whatever Inara or anyone else may say about her trade being respectable, it seems there’s a deep-seated distaste for it – If you were to, for example, ask any of the people at the Persephone ball whether they’d like their own daughter to take up Inara’s profession and you bet you’re life they’d say no … Yet few of them men woudl decline her services ... (whether they choose her or the other way around ...)


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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:22 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Zoot:
Quote:

Surely Shakespere would have known the ancient greek orgasmos???


depends on who you read...
I thought Shakespeare was not actually that educated (so he may not have known Greek),
although he almost certainly knew French...
but it is an infinitely debatable point

which is not to say we shouldn't continue debating it (LOL)

of course my original point was just that in 500 years there are huge changes in everything...
it allows Joss a lot of room for creativity

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:34 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Considering that much of the decor in Inara's shuttle was East Indian/Hindu in nature, plus the references to her old home as a temple, I'd say her calling probably derives from the tantric disciplines, perhaps by way of the Kama Sutra. And yes, she probably can be considered a non-celibate nun; it's not a contradiction, except to western traditions based on hatred/fear of sexuality (especially female sexuality.)

"Do you know what the definition of a hero is? It's somebody who gets somebody else killed." -- Zoë Warren

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 4:48 AM

DUG


Nandy did mention Inara was on the path to be the Preistess of House Madrassa, btw. Rather a telling support of the whole religious connection.




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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:21 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


I can't begin to tell you how many temples in world history have been packed with priestesses whose primary form of worship was having sex with paying customers. The early Roman Cathollic church even sponsored a few brothels so good Christian men wouldn't need the services of heathens. (The whole thing was justified by the theory that without prostitutes, otherwise moral men would rape women in the street.)

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:28 AM

ZOOT


I think we all agree that there is a religious element - just really wondering whether Joss et al called it House Madrassa as a reference to that ro whether the name just sounded good and the meaning is coincidental ...

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:56 AM

CEDRIC


According to the translation sites I've read, Inara invokes the Buddha when she sees Mal passed out (possibly dead) in "Our Mrs. Reynolds."

I like to think of Inara representing Eastern Religion while the Shepherd represents Western Religion. But I'm weird that way . . .

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:10 AM

KNIBBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by Zoot:
I think Atherton Wing makes it clearest when, when provoked, he says:

“Money changed hands. Makes her mine tonight. And no matter how you dress her up, she's still...“

and you just know there’s only one way to finish that sentence!!


"...No matter how you dress her up, she's still a far better person than me?"
Or that's what that worthless piece of go seh should have said.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:21 AM

CORNCOBB


I rewatched "Heart of Gold" last night and thought it was strange that Inara was willing to call the brothel girls "whores". I couldn't see why she would think them so different to herself, just because she was registered and they weren't. If there is a religious element to the role of Companion that might explain it.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:08 AM

LEDPENCIL


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
Quote:

Originally posted by Zoot:
Quote:

Surely Shakespere would have known the ancient greek orgasmos???


depends on who you read...
I thought Shakespeare was not actually that educated (so he may not have known Greek),
although he almost certainly knew French...
but it is an infinitely debatable point




Shakespeare's Latin that he uses in some of his plays (the only one I can think of is Love's Labour's Lost) isn't the most grammatically correct latin so I'd suspect if he knew any Greek it would only be a working sense of the language, and nothing very in depth.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:13 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
I thought Shakespeare was not actually that educated (so he may not have known Greek),

Well, Shakespeare was certainly a hack (I say while still considering myself one of his great fans --no one says a hack can't also be an artist), but he certainly seemed to have a firm grasp of art, and likely history (even considering his "creative revisions" in the history plays). Both of which carry strong Greek influences.

Plus, he once described himself as having "small Latin, less Greek," which would probably be more telling if I knew exactly what was a "normal" middle-class education back then.

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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:26 PM

ZOOT


Quote:

Originally posted by Corncobb:
I rewatched "Heart of Gold" last night and thought it was strange that Inara was willing to call the brothel girls "whores". I couldn't see why she would think them so different to herself, just because she was registered and they weren't. If there is a religious element to the role of Companion that might explain it.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."



I always thought it was completely understandable that Inara needed to distance herself from the unregistered "whores" - we all need someone to be better than ...

I think Inara likes to think of her job as a veritable "profession” in which case the whores at the HOG would be “manual labourers” (snarf!) …I reckon Inara gets over any lingering shame by seeing herself as an artist who is very skilled in her chosen vocation – I can totally see why, religious element or no, she would think that the unregistered whores lacked artistry, weren’t in any way disciplined and could not be compared to her calling – see I just called it a “calling” (and a "vocation") – any more religious references, anyone?


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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 10:35 PM

ZOOT


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:


Plus, he once described himself as having "small Latin, less Greek," which would probably be more telling if I knew exactly what was a "normal" middle-class education back then.




Well, the primary education at grammar schools of the time was exactly that – Latin Grammar – from his clear inability to parse, it would seem that either Billy didn’t go or didn’t pay much attention … English was taught only as an after-thought.

But we do have to remember that earlier medieval Latin was insane and not at all like the classical stuff we all know and love ….

Greek was much rarer – tending to be taught by tutors to the upper echelons of society …

It would not be until the glory days of the late nineteenth, early twentieth centuries that people like Robert Graves would be spending their school days composing perfect epigrams in ancient Greek, before writing an exact imitation of a Ciceronian speech in classical Latin ... (*sighs fondly at thought* - See “Goodbye to All That” by Mr Graves)


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