Firefly/Serenity. Why is this show cancelled again??? by FireFlyhooked32

Welcome to the fan club!

Your questions have been asked for the last 3 years on this board by everyone who fell in love with Firefly (everyone here). Come to think of it, Haken should really put it in a FAQ. We're only going to get more and more new fans asking the same question after the movie is released.

Why was it cancelled? One answer is poor ratings (2-4 million viewers) vs. the cost of production (I heard $2 million per episode). The other folks before me explained why the ratings were poor despite the quality of the show.

How can we get it to come back on TV? The short answer is that it can't. Because of legal contract stipulations, Firefly cannot be picked up by another network for something like 10 years. The actors have indicated it is unrealistic for a cast that is 10 years older to return to the show. Having said that, Firefly does live on in the Big Damn Movie that is coming out on Sept 30 called Serenity. Be there and make sure all your friends are there. If it makes $80 million worldwide, we get a sequel or two. Firefly also continues in a comic book called Serenity, and I have heard mention of a possible animated series.

The little TV show we love is no more. They killed it and made sure it was good and dead. Joss, the creator, took Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a box office dud, and resurrected it as a TV phenomenon. We are all counting on his taking Firefly, a TV dud, and resurrecting it as a box office smash. The cast has been optioned for a trilogy on the big screen. We're all doing our damn best to make sure this trilogy happens.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Monday, September 12, 2005 7:43 AM

I hate it when it double posts. Sorry.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Monday, September 12, 2005 7:53 AM

THIEFJEHAT

For 3 years now I have heard that question asked and asked again. Firefly was one of those great things what was utterly wasted and it was a sad heartbreaking thing to watch.

Here are the primary reasons why the show failed:

1. Joss crafted the pilot episode to engage and explain to viewers his vision. Like many people on here, I think the pilot episode is one of the 3 best episodes of them all. I place it behind Objects in Space and before Out of Gas. However, after fox watched it they were not as thrilled. They had expected starships and phasers and other trite themes that have been rehashed again and again in Trek. They were unable to wrap their minds around Firefly. In the end they ordered Joss to remake the pilot and decided not to air the real Pilot. That is why the air date for The Train Job is the earliest date. You can see this if you look on the reverse side of the case for disc 1 in a Firefly DVD set. The Fox execs wanted a fast moving action adventure episode as the open for the show. So that's why people saw a train heist first. The problem was that many people didn't understand what they were seeing. Without the real pilot to explain things, viewers were left wondering who these characters were...questions like "Who is River" were valid because her presence on the ship isn't understood right away because you didn't see her in the box. Ultimately, many people that tuned in were...well...turned off. The fault of this can be layed squarely at the feet of Fox.

2. The marketing campaign for the show was weak. As I understand it, only 6 commercials aired. The result was that most people never new it existed.

3. It aired in a horrible time slot: Friday night at 9:00pm. The general demographic for the show was not around to watch a pilot. I mean...I fit the demographic perfectly and I know what I was doing on friday nights in sept of 2002. RPG'ing and going to drinking parties.

So the end result was this:

**Of the entire potential fanbase only 10% ever saw ads or knew the show existed.
**Of that 10%, only a fraction wanted to watch TV on Friday night at 9:00pm.
**Of that smaller fraction many people were put off by The Train Job and didn't stay around to watch Bushwacked the next week.

So when ratings slipped, Fox pulled the plug on the show that they themselves sabotaged.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 11:33 AM

VENA

Welcome to the fold.

The reason it was given an early death? F*X

Now you know why I use F*X as a dirty word. Short of Family Guy, I refuse to watch that network to this day.

Because I am an American. And what does an American want? Democracy? Capitalism. I want to sell out and settle down. For one day only, it's a blue light special on Aisle Three. My wormhole technology... and a free set of steak knives... for all the tea in China. And anything you can imagine to pay me... welcome to my cold war.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 12:38 PM

Quote:

Why was it canncelled...
hmmm...
*racks brain*
[HATE_FILLED_RANT]
Because FOX is composed of short-sighted ignorant little buerocratic morons, who couldn't understand the show so pulled the plug? They have no problem (as far as I can see) understanding some vacuous moron humilliating themselves and parading their stupidity on TV. Probably cause thats pretty much who they are, but in suits.
FOXs network slogan:
To destroy good TV... Raising the ignorant!
[/HATE_FILLED_RANT]

well,
that's it in a nutshell (which is what FOX is -- a nutshell).

and by the way for all those doubters out there who are saying that "Firefly" will never come back and that it is a dead cause, i'm very disappointed in you.

. come on, when have Joss's fans ever given up?! I know i haven't through out the years and i know other fans haven't since there is now a movie coming out (sept. 30th -- woo hoo). FOX is a stupid peice of gossa - we agree on that. but the fact that they even gave 'Versal the rights to firefly gives me hope.

I am particularly disappointed with CANTTAKESKY.

Quote:

written by CANTTAKESKY
How can we get it to come back on TV? The short answer is that it can't. Because of legal contract stipulations, Firefly cannot be picked up by another network for something like 10 years. The actors have indicated it is unrealistic for a cast that is 10 years older to return to the show.

well, with that additude we can't get our beloved show back. CANTTAKESKY, i am telling you that if we don't try and look at things from every aspect that "they" (the "they" that everyone talks about, but no one knows who everyone means) "they" WILL take the sky from us.

and please CANTTAKESKY, don't call firefly a TV dud. it doesn't matter if it didn't flourish on fox, Firefly is NO DUD.

Now let me clear a few things up:

1) the contract FOX signed prohibited anybody to make "Firefly" the tv series for 10 years. this contract began 3 years ago. this means that we have 7 years in the ORIGINAL contract to go. these seven years will be filled up by the trilogy of firefly films. i am not saying that they might be filled up by a trilogy of firefly films because fanatics like me and my brother and my father will not let firefly die. we are going to see the movie at least 4 times each and are working on gorilla marketing and converting people to firefly. i am sure millions of other fans are now and are planning in the futureto do the same.

2) i would also like to stress that contracts can be changed. (hence the words "Orignal contract" in the paragraph above)

3) there is no stipulation in the contract that strides against making tv series based on "serenity: the movie".

4) while i agree that actors have been indicating that it is unrealistic that characters will come back in 10 years for another try at the series, might i just say that my previous points stand. There is also the possibility that after a trilogy of movies, the actors might decide that firefly can pick up where the movies left off. All of these actors haven't said outright that they won't be coming back, and Nathan Fillion has said that Firefly "represents the best of all worlds ... and that it will forever will be the best job i've ever had." I'm sure that many of these actors would love to continue this series, even in later years. they had tons of fun working together.

so i want to stress we can still have our series back. Just keep flying!!!

listen to THE SIGNAL ... the only podcast made completely for the tv series "Firefly" and the gorilla marketing of Serenity ...
THE SIGNAL ... listen to it and live by it travelers!!

(Grrrrrr...Arggggg)

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Monday, September 12, 2005 3:56 PM

I just rented this gem last Friday (only disc one). After watching the pilot I quickly ran out to the nearest Best Buy to purchase the entire season.

Now I tried my best to quickly soak in the "Firefly" situation with FOX, and I have one question.

I understand that FOX controlls the rights to Firefly inregards to new episodes, and that Sci-Fi is now showing re-runs.

Isn't this similar to the situation that Family Guy ran into? FOX cancelled and re-runs were picked up on cartoon network (or was it comedy central?) and followed with amazing DVD sales FOX decides to purchase new episodes of the Family Guy.

So I know this is wishfull thinking, but with the great DVD sales of Firefly and a potential to do very well at the boxoffice - isn't it in the realm of possibilty that FOX would rethink this move?

FOX execs see $$$ and with great DVD sales - good boxoffice (fingers crossed) especially when good boxoffices are rare - wouldn't it be in FOX's best interest to re-sign?

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:20 PM

ILOVEFIREFLY

fox is dumb remember they thought firefly was a dud so they thought it was a lost cause.

oh no fox and microsoft have merged what will we do

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:31 PM

OK Fox made a huge mistake with cancelling Firefly - we all know this. But the same could be said with what they did with FamilyGuy - but in the end FOX still did a 180 and re-signed them.

I don't have faith that FOX will resign Firefly because it's well-written, nor do I have faith that they will re-sign Firefly because it has a large loyal fanbase.........I do have faith that FOX will re-sign Firefly because it will make them money and hopefully lots of it.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:31 PM

NORMA

what i don't understand is, WHY all this (marketing and inspiration, recognization of the quality level of the show...) was so bad? i dont know anybody, who disliked the show by now - and i wonder why people whose job is, to find out what we wanna see on tv and to fight for good *sendezeit* and everything weren't better in what they were doing...

(can anybody understand my poor english-trials? ;-) sorry for that, but i'm better in listening...)

here in germany its the same shit with good (american) shows (our own shows are not even a bit recognizable): they put them in the middle of the week, in the late evening (23.15 perhaps or 1.15 ...) and without ANY trailers (last time it was the mess with "the shield"). and after this, they "wonder" why no-one is watching! then they cancel the show - and if you ask two weeks later, if anybody recognized it or liked it, you became the same answer: we didn'nt know, that there were something like this on tv!?
so, WHY is this, that people whose job is, to recognize something, couldn't be good in what they are doing? they have no sense for good things or jewels like "firefly" - and all they are doing is putting another judgement-show or "how-was-our-day"-things or another stupid reality show into the programme - and then they wonder, why the culture of sharing files in the net is so
increasing... :-/

Firefly fans are spread all over the world - and i cannot wait to see the movie here in Germany!!! :)

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:57 PM

Quote:

written by BMAURO
I understand that FOX controlls the rights to Firefly inregards to new episodes, and that Sci-Fi is now showing re-runs.

Isn't this similar to the situation that Family Guy ran into? FOX cancelled and re-runs were picked up on cartoon network (or was it comedy central?) and followed with amazing DVD sales FOX decides to purchase new episodes of the Family Guy.

So I know this is wishfull thinking, but with the great DVD sales of Firefly and a potential to do very well at the boxoffice - isn't it in the realm of possibilty that FOX would rethink this move?

FOX execs see $$$ and with great DVD sales - good boxoffice (fingers crossed) especially when good boxoffices are rare - wouldn't it be in FOX's best interest to re-sign?

it would be... FOX is stupid

so i don't know if they will do this. Now, if FOX decides to give Joss an offer, it will be up to Joss to take it up or not. if that happens it seems like it's a no brainer to put the show back on, right? The problem is if FOX wants Joss back, it's going to have to be a GOOD deal. I would love to have firefly back, no matter what. But as for Joss, i wouldn't blame him if he needs a really sweet deal to put firefly back on to FOX!

this is a good land. and we shall call it ... this land.
(grrrrrrrrr........argggggg)

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Monday, September 12, 2005 5:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by engineangel:
I am particularly disappointed with CANTTAKESKY.

I'm sorry to disappoint you. But this question has been asked of Joss and the cast so many times. And they always give the same answer. Sorry, it doesn't look possible.

I was at DragonCon last weekend, when someone again asked this to the cast. Is it possible, at all, if Serenity makes a gazillion dollars at the box office, for Firefly to come back as a TV series? Adam Baldwin answered no. Maybe as a animated series, or it could live on as a comic book series. Definitely they were hoping that it would live on in the movies. But on TV, as it was before, he said no. Then he added that no one wanted to see a 50-60 year old Jayne, anyway. (I think he is around 40 now.)

So yes, it is disappointing. I wouldn't be here on this board if it weren't disappointing to me too. I do admire everyone who has the faith to keep hoping. But I figure, who knows the situation better than Joss and the cast? If they are saying no, then maybe that is the most realistic thing to expect at this point.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:30 AM

Sorry for all the dumb replies here - cause I am new here and I know everyone here has heard this a million times.

But when the cast (Adam Baldwin in this case) say that no one would want to see a 50 year old Jayne - isn't that looking at if the show would come back on the air once FOX's contract expires in 10 years?

I'm asking about the chance that FOX will re-sign them after the movie - more like a year or two.

I don't blame them (cast and crew) - I wouldn't want to wait around 7+ years to make more episodes, but has Joss or anyone on from the cast mentioned what they would do if FOX asked them back for more? (Again not a 7+ years down the road - but relatively soon)

Again - I apologize for this dumb hope - but I just discovered Firefly this past weekend and I would hate to think that I'll never have more than 14 episodes (minus the movies :)

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:12 AM

Quote:

I'm sorry to disappoint you. But this question has been asked of Joss and the cast so many times. And they always give the same answer. Sorry, it doesn't look possible.

I was at DragonCon last weekend, when someone again asked this to the cast. Is it possible, at all, if Serenity makes a gazillion dollars at the box office, for Firefly to come back as a TV series? Adam Baldwin answered no. Maybe as a animated series, or it could live on as a comic book series. Definitely they were hoping that it would live on in the movies. But on TV, as it was before, he said no. Then he added that no one wanted to see a 50-60 year old Jayne, anyway. (I think he is around 40 now.)

So yes, it is disappointing. I wouldn't be here on this board if it weren't disappointing to me too. I do admire everyone who has the faith to keep hoping. But I figure, who knows the situation better than Joss and the cast? If they are saying no, then maybe that is the most realistic thing to expect at this point.

i'm sorry for my rant before, but you need to understand that things can change, CANTTAKESKY. He did say in 10 years. Circumstances might change. Also, maybe they'll focus in on one or two characters, or figure out a reason to put on tv that some of the characters are missing. it doesn't sound as good I know, but still it's something. A very good point to make is that after a triology they might start a series that starts of from where the last movie leaves off. There are just so many possibilities, listed and not listed here. CANTTAKESKY, just please don't lose hope!

this is a good land, and shall call it ... this land.
(grrrrrrrrr........arrrggggg)

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:45 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Every time this subject has come up before, the same mistake keeps being made. Everyone seems to think that the FOX televison network is the company that holds the tv rights to Firefly. They are not. It is 20th Century Fox Film Studios, the studio that produced it, as well as producing Buffy and Angel (which aired on networks other than FOX). Yes, they are owned by the same corporation, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp, but they are separate business entities.

20th is the company that licensed the film rights to Universal, and they are the ones who licensed the repeat rights to NBC/Universal's Sci-Fi Channel. They are the ones who will decide the fate of Firefly/Serenity on the small screen, and even if they can convince Joss to come back to tv, you can be gorram sure it will not be to the FOX network.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bmauro:
Sorry for all the dumb replies here - cause I am new here and I know everyone here has heard this a million times.

No need to apologize. We were all new once, and someone else had to explain it to us.

Quote:
But when the cast (Adam Baldwin in this case) say that no one would want to see a 50 year old Jayne - isn't that looking at if the show would come back on the air once FOX's contract expires in 10 years?

It would seem that the expiration is what he is referring to. Also, keep in mind that Joss and the cast are all looking for or already involved in new jobs. For all of them to be free to do a weekly TV series again, it'll take time, maybe beyond the 10 years.

Quote:
I'm asking about the chance that FOX will re-sign them after the movie - more like a year or two.

As ECGordon said, if FOX asked them for more episodes, it would be 20th Century FOX studios, and not FOX TV. Could they make that request? *I* don't see why not, but Baldwin's answer seems to suggest it won't happen. Maybe he knows something we don't. What I understand from Baldwin's comments is that Firefly will not come back as the series it was. I think that if Serenity makes a gazillion dollars, and they want Firefly back on TV soon, it would come back as a spin-off with one or more characters, or revamped with a brand new cast like The Next Generation.

The sense I get from all the interviews with Joss and the cast is, they've moved on. The TV series is over. They are focusing on the movie(s), which Joss wants to use to finish telling the story. Serenity is the equivalent of season 2 of Firefly, he said. I would imagine the sequels would be seasons 3 and 4 or more. Also, movies is where most actors want to be. It's good for their careers. I don't blame them for not wanting to go back to TV if there is a real chance for them to continue on the big screen.

Quote:
Again - I apologize for this dumb hope - but I just discovered Firefly this past weekend and I would hate to think that I'll never have more than 14 episodes (minus the movies :)

I don't mean to squash all hopes. What do I know anyway? Hope away. Don't let me take your gorram sky.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by engineangel:
Also, maybe they'll focus in on one or two characters...A very good point to make is that after a triology they might start a series that starts of from where the last movie leaves off. There are just so many possibilities, listed and not listed here.

Yes, I think all these possibilities can bring the Firefly verse back to TV at some point. When I say that I understand Firefly won't come back to TV, I mean Firefly is not going to come back AS IT WAS, with the same cast and the same story line. I believe, and hope, that it is very possible there can be a spin-off with some of the characters or a Next Generation kind of deal with an entirely new cast. I happen to think Joss' storytelling strength is in TV, and I'd like to see him come back and give us more space opera.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:15 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

While I do hope that you're all wrong and we will see more Firefly episodes - I'm begining to see why this might be more like a pipe dream :(

I just rather have multiple seasons of character development and story arcs rather than a few 2 hour movies - but at this point and time I guess I'm lucky that we're getting a movie (and a kick @ss one at that )

Still keeping my fingers crossed :P

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:39 PM

Quote:

ecgordon wrote:
Every time this subject has come up before, the same mistake keeps being made. Everyone seems to think that the FOX televison network is the company that holds the tv rights to Firefly. They are not. It is 20th Century Fox Film Studios, the studio that produced it, as well as producing Buffy and Angel (which aired on networks other than FOX). Yes, they are owned by the same corporation, Rupert Murdoch's News Corp, but they are separate business entities.

20th is the company that licensed the film rights to Universal, and they are the ones who licensed the repeat rights to NBC/Universal's Sci-Fi Channel. They are the ones who will decide the fate of Firefly/Serenity on the small screen, and even if they can convince Joss to come back to tv, you can be gorram sure it will not be to the FOX network.

thanks for clearing that up! either way though, we can all agree that FOX is a peice of gossa!!!

listen to THE SIGNAL - the only podcast devoted to Firefly and Serenity - and rate it at:
www.podcastpickle.com and
www.podcastalley.com
if you rate THE SIGNAL you are helping to promote Serenity!!!

(grrrrrrr.....arrrgggg)

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:44 PM