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Originally posted by fireflygal:
I'd rather him tell me it's because Alan and Ron do not want to have anything to do with Firefly ever again.

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Originally posted by Thrawn:
"Calling Joss out" are you? Come on. He told his story, the best and most intense and most realistic way he could. He owes us nothing more.

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Originally posted by Jacqui:

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Originally posted by Thrawn:
He told his story, the best and most intense and most realistic way he could. He owes us nothing more.

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Hear Hear!!

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Originally posted by spikeandjezebel:
Yes, it hurts to not have Wash or Book with us in potential sequels (maybe in flashback form?) but it made Serenity an incredibly powerful film for me. I really didn't think ANY of our heroes were going to survive the last act after Wash's death - I thought they were all going out in a blaze of glory, and I was riveted.

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Posted: 06 May 2005 11:00 am
Post subject: An open letter to William Shakespeare **SPOILERS**

Dear Will,

I am so mad right now. I just got back from the sneak preview of Hamlet, and I can't even think straight. How could you kill Hamlet at the end? I mean, he was like, my favorite character!

Anyway, I've been thinking about ways you can fix this before the premiere of the play. Hamlet doesn't get killed until the very end, his scenes can easily be rewritten so that he gets up after Horatio's speech, and reveals that he's immune to the poison that was used. This would only require a couple of additional lines to be rewritten, and then we'd have Hamlet around for sequels.

I realize that you may have thought that killing Hamlet was "edgy" or "shocking," and it was, but that doesn't make it right.

I am seriously considering staying at home when Hamlet premieres at the Globe, and reading my folio copy of The Taming of the Shrew instead.

Sincerely,
miller_unc

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Originally posted by embers:

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Originally posted by Jacqui:

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Originally posted by Thrawn:
He told his story, the best and most intense and most realistic way he could. He owes us nothing more.

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Hear Hear!!

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anyone who has experienced a loved one's death in RL
(as we know Joss has)
knows how intense and deep that loss is,
and personally I think Joss gave us a taste of that shock and pain,
and it adds depth and power to his film

personally I'll be thrilled to see my beloved characters again in flashbacks,
or in prequels
or in any other form Joss thinks up....

If you don't like Joss Whedon's story telling then you can always go for fan fic,
that is what that is for...right?

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Originally posted by Stillshiny:
came across this today. Just some bits & pieces from the Sydney Q & A but may help shed some light.

Q> How did you decide who to kill?

A> “My Dungeon Master’s 20-sided dice” (uproarious laughter).


‘At first, I wasn’t going to kill anyone...” but he explained that if no-one got hurt then the story wouldn’t ring true for the newcomers. He also noted “You have resitrictions about who you can kill and still call it a happy ending.” He apparently tried different scenarios and reminisced that in a draft for Alien IV, he had a death for one of the characters in every act and then living in the finale. “I can’t worry about what I need or worry about a sequel...” he had to make this film the best it could possibly be.
Wash’s death “gave Zoe what she hadn’t had for the rest of the movie...” ie. an emotional arc and more than her just being the strong, dependable... (can’t remember the adjectives...) She was given shock and disbelief before “sublimating it for later when she can take it out on some Reavers.” “Everyone who isn’t Ron and Alan wins.”


He (Joss) noted that Alan works the most and was the first to get work after the series ended. Joss at this point began to get nervous that the cast was moving on and that his movie wasn’t going to happen.

Asked about whether we would ever find out about Book’s past. “Once more I mention the sequel...”

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - I'm thinkin we rose again
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

Listen to "The Signal" www.serenityfirefly.com

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05

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Originally posted by WickedLester:
I haven't seen it yet, but i read the spoilers and i trust joss

Got a Smoke?

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Originally posted by Rhonis:
I'm holding to the notion that maybe, just maybe, all of this is to give us a great twist -- the final cut will have a healthy Wash and Book in the end.

As a precedent... remember when Empire Strikes Back was released, even the actors were surprised to learn Vader was Luke's father... Only a few select people know about this.

Point is, Joss could be having a great joke on us. Remember Mal's sense of humor towards Kaylee's death? Like that.

I hope I can simply say Joss, you're a bad man. :)

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Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one in the 'Verse who understands that part of what makes Joss and his writings what they are is the fact that, like in real life, there are not always happy endings and things often take unexpected turns.

I accept this in his work, and by way of being a fan, I also expect it.

Did I hate that Wash died? Yes. Was I angry that he died? Yes. Am I calling for Joss's head or for him to answer to me for what is, in reality, his world and his creation? No.

Will I go on and read/watch/listen to anything he does? Yes, I will, and I will do so with the expectation that good guys always aren't, bad guys sometimes have a damn good reason, and that life isn't fair and good people die for no reason. If I didn't at least accept this, I couldn't be a fan.

I will watch. I will get angry. Then I will blame the only person I can, me. And then I will laugh for setting myself up for it and look forward to the next time I will get angry.

note: I will also watch for the stories, the fun, the action, the connections, and the incredibly hot women who can kick pee goo!

Man...that's twice something has got me on my soapbox this week...a world record. LOL!



BWAH!
TCM

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Great soapbox 10th CM, glad I incited you to step on up. And I basically agree with most of what you said EXCEPT that I can be a fan AND question what happens. I won't blindly accept what Joss writes because he's Joss. I never liked Buffy or Angel. I did, however, LOVE Firefly (obviously) which is why I'm in this forum in the first place.

I may be on the losing side of this post, still not convinced it's the wrong one!

If anyone is interested, check out the article I wrote PURPOSELY to promote Done the Impossible AND Serenity. The site I write for, however, is NOT sci-fi oriented, so I had to give it a science fact twist to even get it considered. It contains no Joss bashing, by the way.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=9b95f5b8-74b8-42fa-a
e98-39963abc7512&


I aim to misbehave!

Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/fireflyflan

Quote:

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Originally posted by fireflygal:

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Originally posted by Stillshiny:
came across this today. Just some bits & pieces from the Sydney Q & A but may help shed some light.

Q> How did you decide who to kill?

A> “My Dungeon Master’s 20-sided dice” (uproarious laughter).


‘At first, I wasn’t going to kill anyone...” but he explained that if no-one got hurt then the story wouldn’t ring true for the newcomers. He also noted “You have resitrictions about who you can kill and still call it a happy ending.” He apparently tried different scenarios and reminisced that in a draft for Alien IV, he had a death for one of the characters in every act and then living in the finale. “I can’t worry about what I need or worry about a sequel...” he had to make this film the best it could possibly be.
Wash’s death “gave Zoe what she hadn’t had for the rest of the movie...” ie. an emotional arc and more than her just being the strong, dependable... (can’t remember the adjectives...) She was given shock and disbelief before “sublimating it for later when she can take it out on some Reavers.” “Everyone who isn’t Ron and Alan wins.”


He (Joss) noted that Alan works the most and was the first to get work after the series ended. Joss at this point began to get nervous that the cast was moving on and that his movie wasn’t going to happen.

Asked about whether we would ever find out about Book’s past. “Once more I mention the sequel...”

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - I'm thinkin we rose again
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

Listen to "The Signal" www.serenityfirefly.com

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05

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Thanks StillShiny. I seem to have the why now and I feel betrayed even more because he killed the characters for the newbies! So THEY'D have a better movie. What about the fans from day 1? Guess we don't seem to count. Sure, he can do whatever he wants with his characters but I don't have to like it and I still don't believe it was a better movie because they died. Yes, it got the gut punch reaction he wanted. It was just great having to sit through 2 more showings with friends, knowing they'd be gut punched too and I couldn't do anything about it. Never said a word to anyone, kept it all in, just said the movie was an "E" ticket ride and it was. I hope the "newbies" appreciate what Joss did for them.

I aim to misbehave!

Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/fireflyflan

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Originally posted by Jacqui:
What TenthCrewMember wrote... in it's entirety.

Seriously? We're talking about a fictional world of fictional characters made up by one man. He can do what he likes with them... as long as he shares it with us.

Yes. Wash's death was upsetting. But it happened.

Yes. All the fans helped get Serenity off the ground and helped Firefly stay on its feet. But why? Why did they do that? So JOSS could tell the stories HE wanted to.

End of discussion.

If I wanted some cheesy hollywood hack formula movie where even the GORRAM little dog lives, I'll watch Volcano.



*~*~*
"Your toes are in the sand."
"And your head's up your..."
"Hey!"

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Originally posted by Thrawn:

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Originally posted by fireflygal:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Stillshiny:
came across this today. Just some bits & pieces from the Sydney Q & A but may help shed some light.

Q> How did you decide who to kill?

A> “My Dungeon Master’s 20-sided dice” (uproarious laughter).


‘At first, I wasn’t going to kill anyone...” but he explained that if no-one got hurt then the story wouldn’t ring true for the newcomers. He also noted “You have resitrictions about who you can kill and still call it a happy ending.” He apparently tried different scenarios and reminisced that in a draft for Alien IV, he had a death for one of the characters in every act and then living in the finale. “I can’t worry about what I need or worry about a sequel...” he had to make this film the best it could possibly be.
Wash’s death “gave Zoe what she hadn’t had for the rest of the movie...” ie. an emotional arc and more than her just being the strong, dependable... (can’t remember the adjectives...) She was given shock and disbelief before “sublimating it for later when she can take it out on some Reavers.” “Everyone who isn’t Ron and Alan wins.”


He (Joss) noted that Alan works the most and was the first to get work after the series ended. Joss at this point began to get nervous that the cast was moving on and that his movie wasn’t going to happen.

Asked about whether we would ever find out about Book’s past. “Once more I mention the sequel...”

"We had ties that could not be broken, except by the passing of time. Like a rock. A broken time rock. And you're very special to me, my broken time rock people." - Nathan Fillion

Stillshiny's Shop - I'm thinkin we rose again
http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=4728

Listen to "The Signal" www.serenityfirefly.com

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05

---

Thanks StillShiny. I seem to have the why now and I feel betrayed even more because he killed the characters for the newbies! So THEY'D have a better movie. What about the fans from day 1? Guess we don't seem to count. Sure, he can do whatever he wants with his characters but I don't have to like it and I still don't believe it was a better movie because they died. Yes, it got the gut punch reaction he wanted. It was just great having to sit through 2 more showings with friends, knowing they'd be gut punched too and I couldn't do anything about it. Never said a word to anyone, kept it all in, just said the movie was an "E" ticket ride and it was. I hope the "newbies" appreciate what Joss did for them.

I aim to misbehave!

Firefly items:
For lapel pins and badge holder lanyards
e-mail FireflyGal1@hotmail.com
www.cafepress.com/fillies
www.cafepress.com/fireflyflan

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Are you truly this blind?! How many hardcore, intense fans just posted in this thread saying they supported the action? Let's see...um...MOST OF THEM. So you're saying he didn't care about US?!

Let me try this again - he told his story the best and most powerful way he could. What else do you want him to do?

Let me ask you a question, straight up. Would you rather he write to fulfill himself, or your expectations?

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Originally posted by fireflygal:
if YOU read his quote from the Aussie interview he originally wasn't going to kill anyone but then it wouldn't ring true for the NEWCOMERS, not the Browncoats but the NEW fans.

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Originally posted by MikeyMo:

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Originally posted by fireflygal:
if YOU read his quote from the Aussie interview he originally wasn't going to kill anyone but then it wouldn't ring true for the NEWCOMERS, not the Browncoats but the NEW fans.

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Like I said in my previous post, I really don't think it would have rung true for me if no one had died. I appreciate you have a right to your opinion, but I really don't think accusations of Joss ignoring his fanbase, or tring to "get back" at Ron and Alan, have much credibility.

From this fan's perspective, at least, the deaths give the film more emotional resonance than a feel-good ending would have. They wouldn't be our BDHs if things went their way.

"Be ashamed to die before you have scored some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

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Originally posted by TenthCrewMember:
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one in the 'Verse who understands that part of what makes Joss and his writings what they are is the fact that, like in real life, there are not always happy endings and things often take unexpected turns.

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Originally posted by CallMeAth:
It hurt didn't it? It hurt a lot. Just like it was supposed to.

it was a realistic death. No last words and no sacrifice. Just like real life.

I, for one, am glad that Joss did it.

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Originally posted by fireflygal:
Great soapbox 10th CM, glad I incited you to step on up. And I basically agree with most of what you said EXCEPT that I can be a fan AND question what happens.

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