Two things struck me on the fourth viewing tonight. (mild spoilers) by loggerhead

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Two things struck me on the fourth viewing tonight. (mild spoilers)

POSTED BY: LOGGERHEAD
UPDATED: Thursday, October 13, 2005 09:07
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VIEWED: 5364
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Monday, October 3, 2005 8:00 PM

First, the movie starts and ends with love.

"That's not madness, it's love."

"Love keeps her flying when she ought to fall."

Second, further similarity between the Operative and Book.

Mal reckons he'll hear the Alliance's boots when they come for him. Book says, "You won't."

Mal says he'll shoot the Operative himself if he sees him again. The Operative says, "You won't."

The quotation marks aren't meant to denote exact quotes -- if you saw the movie you know the line.

I've bought 41 tickets to the show so far. Only 4 for myself. Four more people to drag to it tomorrow night.

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Monday, October 3, 2005 8:24 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Question is, did the Operative mean Mal wouldn't hear him coming, or that Mal wouldn't shoot him. (After all, he's passed by one chance already. And it turned out to be the decision that saved his crew.)

Y'know, if I were an Alliance official who had anything to do with the Miranda experiment and/or the coverup therof, I wouldn't sleep very easy. When a personality like the Operative undergoes a conversion, he doesn't use half measures.

"Know what the definition of a hero is? Someone who gets other people killed." -- Zoë Warren

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Monday, October 3, 2005 11:38 PM

RELFEXIVE

He means they wouldn't see him again.

And yes... high-ups in the Parliament had best watch out... the day may come when the ex-Operative feels the need to end some sinners....

"My God - you're like a trained ape. Without the training."
"Come a day there won't be room for naughty men like us to slip about at all..."
I know the secret.
http://www.theshadowdepository.co.uk/index.htm

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Monday, October 3, 2005 11:51 PM

RAKARR

Honestly I don't see similarities between Book and the Operative. Could some one explain? Cause to me they are way different. Only thing I can tell they have in common really is they both strongly believe in some thing. But that some thing not being the same thing.

"I am a leaf in the wind."

Big Damn Fansite - Where the Browncoats gather.
http://www.freewebs.com/bigdamnfansite

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 2:02 AM

EMMA

Book was so obviously an Operative it is painful (of course Joss is a git and probably wants us to think that).

The film is obviously going to start and end with love, have funny references to sex, involve redemption, religion, anti-authoritarianism, death, and loyalty. That is what Joss does in everything!

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 2:18 AM

WEICHI

My suspicion is that Book was an Operative, but we have no actual proof.

I think the Operative intends to fall on his sword, after he reports to the Parliament. "there is nothing left to see" And there is no shame in this.

See how I'm not punching him, I think I've grown!

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 5:10 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
That is what Joss does in everything!

Agreed. Joss' style, like that of all true artists, is unmistakeable, so it's good that he does it so well.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 5:21 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
Question is, did the Operative mean Mal wouldn't hear him coming, or that Mal wouldn't shoot him. (After all, he's passed by one chance already. And it turned out to be the decision that saved his crew.)

I'm not even sure if he says, "you won't". But I remember him saying, "There's nothing left to see.". So, obviously he was telling Mal that he won't see him ever again.

The operative does strike me as a man of his word. Where as Mal is anything but. Mal would never riddle Simon with holes and everyone knows it. He just talks big.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 6:07 AM

EMBASSY

On the fifth viewing, I had a different read on a couple of lines, which is fun.

1: Book's line in response to Mal's "Someday you have to tell me about.." is "No, I don't." The first few times, I read that as Book keeping his past private. Now I read that as Book's acknowledgement that Mal already knows.

2: "Love keeps her in the air..." isn't as much Mal talking about Serenity as it is Joss talking about Firefly itself.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 6:16 AM

KK81

the movie was amazing and im hooked on firefly and chance of them bringing back the series

new to the series

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 6:36 AM

JAKE7

Quote:
Originally posted by Embassy:
1: Book's line in response to Mal's "Someday you have to tell me about.." is "No, I don't."

Totally off topic, but this is driving me NUTS!

Did anyone catch what Book's very last words were to Mal. This is after the "belive in SOMETHING"

I've only seen the movie twice (plan to see it many more) but both times I couldn't hear what he said and it's driving me buggy!

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 1:21 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
Totally off topic, but this is driving me NUTS!

Did anyone catch what Book's very last words were to Mal. This is after the "belive in SOMETHING"

I've only seen the movie twice (plan to see it many more) but both times I couldn't hear what he said and it's driving me buggy!

I know, I know!

(It's in the Visual Companion.)

BOOK: I don't care what you believe. Just... believe it. Whatever you have to.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 2:08 PM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by weichi:
My suspicion is that Book was an Operative, but we have no actual proof.

There is 'proof' in the novelization...

---

Serenity is coming. 9/30/05.

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Tuesday, October 4, 2005 2:22 PM

SERENITYVALLEY

Quote:
So, obviously he was telling Mal that he won't see him ever again.

Yeah, that's what Lindsey McDonald said too...

http://www.simple-assault.com/Firefly.htm

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:17 PM

BOOKSWORD

Evil hand is good.

Seriously if I was the Parliment I would be a bit worried that a highly trained and highly motivated Operative might want to settle some Karmic balance on my purple butt.

The guilty will be punished.

And punished hard.

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Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:10 PM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:

Totally off topic, but this is driving me NUTS!

Did anyone catch what Book's very last words were to Mal. This is after the "belive in SOMETHING"

I've only seen the movie twice (plan to see it many more) but both times I couldn't hear what he said and it's driving me buggy!

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

I have the shooting script right here (visual companion)and he says:

"I don't care what you believe. Just believe it. Whatever you have to ..."

But watching the movie, all 3 times, I thought he said "whatever she does ...." i.e. believe whatever River does ... but there ya go ...

open to interpretation, I guess

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:31 AM

JAKE7

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:

Totally off topic, but this is driving me NUTS!

Did anyone catch what Book's very last words were to Mal. This is after the "belive in SOMETHING"

I've only seen the movie twice (plan to see it many more) but both times I couldn't hear what he said and it's driving me buggy!

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

I have the shooting script right here (visual companion)and he says:

"I don't care what you believe. Just believe it. Whatever you have to ..."

But watching the movie, all 3 times, I thought he said "whatever she does ...." i.e. believe whatever River does ... but there ya go ...

open to interpretation, I guess

***************************************

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

Thanks. I thought it got cut off (third time was the charm, think) But hey, if I can manage a fourth viewing this weekend, I'll have to listen hard to it *again*

--------------
MAL: Everybody's makin' a fuss.

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 7:03 AM

THECRAZYIVAN

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by weichi:
My suspicion is that Book was an Operative, but we have no actual proof.

There is 'proof' in the novelization...

Its mild proof...but it gives you soemthing to chew on.

Read novelization for more!

~~~~~~~~~~
"There is a sense that this is still not over. It's hard to put a finger on what's so special about this project and about this group of people, but it's just one of those things you have to trust in, and relish. I am very, very proud."
---Jewel Staite on "Firefly" and "Serenity" in "Finding Serenity" (essay collection by Jane Espenson)

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 8:05 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by jake7:
Thanks. I thought it got cut off (third time was the charm, think) But hey, if I can manage a fourth viewing this weekend, I'll have to listen hard to it *again*

I agree. I think the actual line as filmed is: "Just believe it. Whatever you..."

Makes things a bit more ambiguous. And heart-wrenching, in a "What was he going to say? Now we'll never know" sort of way.

I wonder if this was a Ron Glass suggestion, or if it was filmed a number of different ways and Joss chose this one?

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 8:47 AM

CAPTAINCDC

Quote:
Originally posted by Embassy:
On the fifth viewing, I had a different read on a couple of lines, which is fun.

1: Book's line in response to Mal's "Someday you have to tell me about.." is "No, I don't." The first few times, I read that as Book keeping his past private. Now I read that as Book's acknowledgement that Mal already knows.

2: "Love keeps her in the air..." isn't as much Mal talking about Serenity as it is Joss talking about Firefly itself.

Very interesting. I think there is some truth to both obversations.

---------------------------------------

The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason!

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Thursday, October 13, 2005 9:07 AM

KAZZAHDRANE

I think the Operative intended to kill himself at the end of the film. "There is nothing left to see" implied to me on both viewings that he has seen all he wants to see in the world and is ready to end his life.

And....am I going to have to get the novelization to find out a bit more backstory? :(

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