One of those nagging questions that I MUST have answered by Zoot

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One of those nagging questions that I MUST have answered

POSTED BY: ZOOT
UPDATED: Saturday, October 29, 2005 06:28
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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:29 AM

OK so I truly loved Serenity, as you might expect, and, each of the 4 times I’ve seen it, I have loved it more … and I KNOW that I shouldn’t require a film which is, after all, let’s face it, total fiction, flight of fancy and what-have-you, to be entirely logical, but I gotta know:

So the pax(iccillin) or whatever makes most of the population of a planet incredibly docile, what I’m gonna choose to term “sitting ducks” and one 10th of 1 percent (or something along those lines) of that same population vicious, homicidal cannibals …

So why did the reavers not just take out their raping and eating tendencies on the rest of Miranda (as they indeed do on the research ship) and rather than allowing their docile, cow-like fellow men to just die where they stood, why didn't they turn them into the human equivalent of beef burgers??

Apologies if anyone has asked this already and I know the answer is like to be; “’Cos it’s a film, you dummy, and it just wouldn’t have come across so well plot-wise” …but it’s keeping me up of nights, so any theories, let me know ….

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:48 AM

GEEKMAFIA

I think the main theory is that they would not have become maniacs immediately maybe only as slowly as the others became docile and once they became true reavers everyone else was dead and you know reavers like their meat live.

011101000110100001100101001000000111001101101001
011001110110111001100001011011000000110100001010

Liu koushui de biaozi he houzi de ben erzi.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 6:57 AM

HAIDON

My thought is this: The reavers didn't mess with many of the docile folk, since they didn't scream or put up a fight. boring to rape and cannabalize the willing, or the apathetic I suppose.

It's hard to stay angry when someone doesn't put up a fight. so, they went lookin' for one.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:05 AM

JOSSISAGOD

I'm with all other posts on this thread. I believe Reavers like their people alive and running for their lives when they start to feed, and I believe most if not all of the rest of Miranda's population had already laid down to die by the time the others went insane. also I thought it was one tenth of the entire population that went insane?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:18 AM

ZOOT

1. So that means, the way to avoid reavers is a bit like the way to avoid a ravening lion: Just stand very still and appear disinterested and they'll leave you alone? Shouldn’t someone have told our BDHs that?

2. Am pretty sure its a 10th of 1% in the movie - cos I remember thinking it was weird ... anyone got a Visual Companion handy?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:19 AM

PURPLEYIN

keep in mind that in bushwhacked the infected guy took along time to convert to being a reaver. he was already suffering from malnutrition when found by serenity.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:29 AM

CITIZEN

I'm sure in the film it says they stopped doing everything, eating, breathing etc... so they would have died pretty damn quick, and the Reavers prefer their food to move...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you Beeeer Milkshakes!
Okay, the talking ferret was a bit wierd...

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:44 AM

FOLLOWMAL

I'm quoting from the book.... the Visual Companion.

"...about a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to Pax."

Also in Firefly... when we first encounter the Reaver ship in "Serenity" the pilot... Mal tells them all to just stay calm, they aren't gonna run... because the Reavers would have to chase them... it's their way. I'm paraphrasing... but I think Mal already knows that running under certain circumstances will turn out worse.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:47 AM

ZOOT

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

I'm quoting from the book.... the Visual Companion.

"...about a tenth of a percent of the population had the opposite reaction to Pax."

There ya go! Hands up all those who were paying attention?

ME!!!!

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 7:55 AM

CYBERSNARK

*raises hand*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:01 AM

NCBC

yeah but my real burning question is:

Who opened the door allowing river the dramatic blood covered axe and sword in hand scene?

Kaylee said she would rig it to not be opened from outside.

If we assume river outdid kaylee's riggin', did river finagle the lock and then jump back into blood spattered weapon wielding pose-down to look dramatic as the doors open?

???

of course, the scene was so friggin' cool that i didn't even notice the issue until the third time i saw it. First time i was just "wow!" Second time the line i read here "is she single" was mired into my brain. Third time I went "hey, the doors open. How???"

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 8:29 AM

GROUNDED

Maybe the door opening is a consequence of Alliance troops trying to break in elsewhere, like opening all doors in one sector or something?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:08 AM

SHIRLOCKC

That was my question too! Who opened the door for River?! Someone else had answered suggesting that the Alliance automatically opened all the doors but then why did they knock down the wall?

My other question is and still ever will be why didn't those in the know do more to get rid of the evidence (Miranda). A nice well-place nuke could make the place look like the terraforming gone wrong disaster that it was supposed to be. And yes, there are all those Reavers who aren't supposed to exist in the way, but same deal, one operative with the right equipment can get through, or similarly, why didn't they send an operative to get rid of the research transmitter on the planet? If Serenity could find it, so could others. If the message was transmitted, someone like Mr. Universe should have been able to hack it and track it. I'd accept that they didn't know what they were looking at/for so Mr. Universe couldn't find that one signal but to leave the evidence hanging around on an admittedly dead and hard-to-get-to planet, very chancy.

BTW, these are nit picky details that are probably due to overthinking and obsessing but I only do this for stories that I really really love.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 10:41 AM

YORG

Well, I think that the pax didn't take months to take effect.

After all a person dies from dehydration in about a week.

If it happened within a weeks time and the reavers were "born" they took off from the planet and made it "their" space. Any ship coming into that space to investigate = reaverized. So the government couldn't effectively get to Miranda without launching a huge campaign against the reavers (which they wouldn't want to do and cause people to question what's going on).

That's why I think no one was able to get there to destroy any evidence.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:08 AM

ZIGGY

What everyone saying about the pax makes sense, but I must confess it really didn't occur to me about the door. I can't until it comes out on dvd so that I can check up on the sequence of events.
What is really puzzling me is Inara's bow. I mean why not a gun? I've only seen th film once but if I remember correctly she seemed pretty efficient with it, so why have we not seen it before. Indeed why have we never seen Inara take part in any action before? In the last stand in Heart of Gold she could have helped, when they were so outnumbered. It's not as if she had any experience delivering babies anyway. In War Stories why did she not go and rescue the man she loves? Kaylee surely would have been a better choice to watch over River. Indeed if we knew then what we know now River would have been involved in the rescue too. Do you think Inara doesn't want people to know she is proficient with weapons, and if not why not? Could it have something to do with her secret, and has she made herself vulnerable by taking the stand alongide her friends?
I also wondered if the appearance of this bow means that the phial of liquid we se in the pilot episode isn't a weapon as I'd first assumed. I mean if it is a weapon why do we not see it in the film, and indeed why do we not see the bow in the episode? If it's not a weapon, and nothing to do with suicide then what could it be? A communication device, a present or possesion from someone she loved, a secret message, the bodily remains of someone? Any ideas?
Sorry for going on at such length, but it's lovely to find other people with the same obsessions.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:08 AM

BRITCHICK

i thought Kayleee suggested rigging the door, but someone (Mal? Zoe? decided against it.

I don't think she did rig it in the end.

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:15 AM

IMALEAF

Maybe reavers like live people because they scream and fight.............those people on Miranda were not fighters..........thats what I think anyways

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:23 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Start of scene (everyone standing in cargo bay with door down.)

Inara: Let's go to Persephone.

*Mal thinks about it*
Mal: No, let's not go to Persephone. It's a silly place.

Kaylee: Oh look at the fluffy white bunny rabbit. It's so cute.

*fluffy white bunny rabbit savagely leaps at Jayne's throat and latches on*

Wash: Wow, look at that sudden but . . . evitable? betrayal. Is evitable even a word?

River: It's an angry rabbit. It hates . . . and kills . . .

Jayne: Gorrammit, don't just stand there! Somebody get this rabbit off of me!

*Zoe shoots rabbit off with deadly accuracy. It falls to ground twitching. So does Jayne*

*Simon goes to Jayne, checks the body*

Simon: He's dead.

Kaylee: Poor rabbit. What did it ever do to anybody?

Jayne: I'm not dead.

*Others load Jayne's body on to mule, ignoring continuing protests that he's dead, then drive it off the ship*

End scene.

~~~~~~
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Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:34 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Well my guess is it happened rather slowly...and people were alreayd lying down to go to sleep and not wake up by then.

And at first itd be like, whoa...Im having impulses to kill, and youd try to fight against it...but yeah, my guess is itd be slow.

Also, its possible they did rape/kill/eat/sew (not necessarily in that order) some more of the living population.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:10 PM

KHYRON

lmao, QueenOfTheNorth!

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:25 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
1. So that means, the way to avoid reavers is a bit like the way to avoid a ravening lion: Just stand very still and appear disinterested and they'll leave you alone? Shouldn’t someone have told our BDHs that?

LOL, HGTG anyone? "Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal" "This creature is so mind-bogglingly stupid that it assumes that if you can't see it, then it can't see you." The Guide suggests that if you ever encounter one, that you should simply wrap a towel around your own head and move out of its way.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot

2. Am pretty sure its a 10th of 1% in the movie - cos I remember thinking it was weird ... anyone got a Visual Companion handy?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:25 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Miranda had a population of 30,000,000 but there were only 30,000 Reavers. So much food, so little time. If the Reavers had gone on a wild raping/feasting/skinning spree, they could have eaten maybe a million people before the corpses decomposed to the point where they don't taste so good no more.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:44 PM

URSULA

I don't think Kaylee had time to rig the door; she was too busy learning that Simon wanted to sleep with her.

As for the Reavers, are we saying they are like cats, or like really small, but equally violent T. Rexes? They respond to the movement, the chase, not so much the need to feed?

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Thursday, October 27, 2005 12:45 PM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:

lmao, QueenOfTheNorth!

Yes, thank you, thank you. (bows to imaginary crowd.) Glad you liked it!

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Friday, October 28, 2005 5:08 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbc:
yeah but my real burning question is:

Who opened the door allowing river the dramatic blood covered axe and sword in hand scene?

I believe it was the assistant grip.

Seriously, the only way to rationalize this is if the Alliance had some sort of override. Maybe they didn't get it working until after the troops had already started the wall-busting process. [Lieutenant: You jarheads, get that wall down! Chen, why haven't you got those doors open?" Chen: "Working on it, sir!"]

Either that, or Mal had a universal remote... (Universal? uni-'versal? Get it? Oh, I kill myself sometimes.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't about you, Jayne. It's about what they need.

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Friday, October 28, 2005 5:31 AM

PURPLEYIN

What if one of Jayne’s many grenades caused structural damage, blocking one of the passages, so they had to come through the wall?

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Friday, October 28, 2005 7:22 AM

SICKDUDE

I've got some ideas on this over at this thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14344#196935

To sum up, I think you have to look at Reavers not as insane cannibals, but as victims of the Alliance that lost their homeworld and their past lives. Pity them.

Then run!

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Friday, October 28, 2005 7:24 AM

SICKDUDE

Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleYin:
What if one of Jayne’s many grenades caused structural damage, blocking one of the passages, so they had to come through the wall?

Hi Purpleyin! I always thought the reason they tear down the wall was that coming through the door one at a time is a poor tactical choice, and it's better to make a new, wide hole and come through six abreast.

"Don't say 'ka' until you've tried it." Daniel Jackson

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Friday, October 28, 2005 2:15 PM

PURPLEYIN

[old sea dog] yar, that would be a working reason too. yar. [/old sea dog]

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Saturday, October 29, 2005 6:28 AM

CYBERSNARK

On the door, here's a chilling thought:

Maybe one of the Reavers (while the others were distracting River) managed to undo Kaylee's jury-rig and trigger the "door open" signal before River killed him.

They may not think like men, but they're obviously capable of a level of technical aptitude (flying/customizing ships, crafting weapons, etc). What if they can open doors?

Imagine the bloodthirsty fury of a Reaver, mixed with Kaylee's technical prowess.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sickdude:
Hi Purpleyin! I always thought the reason they tear down the wall was that coming through the door one at a time is a poor tactical choice,

As the Reavers helpfully demonstrated.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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