Good Sci Fi by est120

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Good Sci Fi

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 22:34
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VIEWED: 12516
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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:30 AM

CYBERSNARK

Well, I have almost all of the series (missing one ep) on tape, thanks to YTV.

Select to view spoiler:

Well, a lot of the series seems stand-alone (with a few minor sub-plots that arise and are resolved on their own), until you get to "Back Spin," one of the only two good clip shows I've ever seen. "Back Spin" doesn't just recap, it puts everything in context, spelling out the conspiracy's attempt to frame Logan, after using him as a pawn for some still-undisclosed reason. This is just one conspiracy, with two or three others that have been hinted at throughout the show (every alien faction has its own agenda, plus there's the Alliance's policy of coverups both toward the public and within itself). It ends with him getting shipped to an Alliance prison facility.

Logan eventually finds his father --his real father, not Walter (who still manages to hang around, and has a cool scene with Logan Sr. in the last two-parter). It's never directly spelled out why Logan Sr. had to be disappeared, though we can piece it together once the real conspiracy (the one involving Rinnaker) comes out.

We also (previous to this) learn that the Roswell crash was itself a ginormous Detail Op --the saucer was dropped from a plane, with cute-looking alien dummies inside it. The coverup was carefully timed to let just enough detail leak out. While the rest of the world is wondering if those cute, harmless-looking aliens are really out there, they won't be looking for the very big, very dangerous ones that are already here.

Turns out Rinnaker himself is an alien, a Shadoen agent codenamed Wraith. Another Shadoen (that crazy government-conspiracy nut that Logan found living in Roswell? That was him) revealed himself mid-series and tried to assassinate Rinnaker (apparently not knowing what Rinnaker actually was --or possibly just as crazy/delusional as he'd appeared to be as a human), so the species isn't completely new. They're actual shape-shifters, making them immune to Logan's Sight. Rinnaker's job was to destabilize the planet (to eliminate any potential of an organized resistance), and to get his claws on the stolen Lycanthrope EMP bomb (which was to be the Shadoen's "endgame" weapon).

Creating the Alliance and initiating the Roswell ploy (with Logan and Trueblood's fathers) was basically intended to bring down the Lycanthropes, Banshee, and Vampires. Then the Alliance was supposed to self-destruct, leaving Earth defenseless. Of course, Logan Sr. (we can extrapolate) had to vanish; otherwise he would've united the factions just as he ended up doing. Rinnaker kept him alive (imprisoned in stasis) just in case he needed a bargaining chip (it ended up backfiring, obviously).

Did you see "Fusion Breed," with the (unexplained) alien-hybrid fire-ants? They were an attempt to create Shadoen shock troops perfectly adapted to fighting on Earth.

Trueblood redeems himself slightly (well, not so much "redeems" as "becomes a little more understandable"), and ends up sacrificing himself. He's the one who keeps the EMP bomb out of Rinnaker's hands, and breaks the Logans out of the prison facility. He gets a one-on-one fight with Alien-Rinnaker, and dies a bloody-yet-heroic death.

The last few eps go into a kinda Independence Day vibe, with an overt alien invasion and the White House (and the Alliance HQ) getting blown up (as Logan, Sh'lainn, and their allies desperately try to organize a counter-attack).

Good place to end it, really, 'cause the conspiracy angle just wouldn't have worked after that. Everything's set to go public shortly after the closing credits.

Logan & Sh'lainn end up brokering a new Global Alliance, one that includes the Yeti, Lycanthropes, Vampires, and Banshee (all grudgingly, but still, it's something), with Logan Sr. as the leader (he's the one human all the alien factions respect). We also meet (and see the fall of) the Conduit, an aliens-only league (formed by Nick's father) that is the old Alliance's main enemy (remnants of the Conduit become the foundation for the new Alliance). The stolen EMP bomb has been modified by the Lycanthropes (after getting it back from the Yeti, and before it was finally captured by the Alliance and liberated by Trueblood), and ultimately ends up needing both Ti-Yet and Ruck's DNA (provided by Athos, Ruck's son). It ends up being used to destroy the Shadoen fleet.

Also, the show ends with the resolution of the love story between the two (Logan almost dies from wounds inflicted by Wraith, and Sh'Lainn saves him --the exchange of life-force means that they're legally married under Banshee law). The sparkage between Nema & Fitz stays in the background, though it does become a bit more overt (Sh'lainn teases Nema about it at one point, just before Fitz's old girlfriend shows up and blunders into the midst of an op).

I think Ruck (leader of the Lycanthropes) dies, but I'm not sure, 'cause it's been a while. Latter stories focus on Athos, Ruck's cub (who's become imprinted on Logan). Queen Mab is still around, as is Sh'lainn's best friend Sh'rhiannon (or Sh'ryan, as the non-Irish-speaking captions call her

), who it turns out is Mab's daughter. Can't rightly recall who's leading the Vampires, as they tended to suffer a number of deaths during the series (there was briefly a Vampire/Banshee hybrid, whose play for power pretty much took out the entire Vampire ruling family).

I'm hoping for some kinda series DVD, but I'm afraid that ship has sailed.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:36 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

•2001: a space odyssey
•The Abyss SE
•A L I E N Quadrilogy
•Babylon 5
•Blade Runner
•Buffy
•Cowboy Bebop
•Dark City
•The Empire Strikes Back
•Farscape
•Firefly
•The Matrix Trilogy
•Outlaw Star
•Pitch Black
•Space: Above and Beyond
•Stargate SG1
•Star Trek
•Star Wars
•Terminator 2
•V

---------------

Deep Thoughts...
...by Jack Handey...

"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:06 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

I loved the Matrix trilogy, but was a bit confused about few points after the 3rd episode. Then I found this site....

http://www.thematrix101.com/revolutions/meaning.php

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:37 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Alien/Aliens(great presentation in the first/outstanding suspense in the second)

Blade Runner(Great vision--powerful movie with some hints that suggest maybe the blade runner himself is a replicant)

Brazil - dark-artsy surreal...pretty fascinating
Time bandits - classic
12 monkeys - weird goes a long way with me I guess.

Firefly/Serenity(need I explain myself?)

Total Recall - Cool movie...annoying at the end, but taken in the context that it could all be a 'memory', it works well.

Terminator - Been a while since i've seen it though.

Unbreakable - one of my favorite movies - great unconventional setup for a superhero story, and villain hero relationship.

Robo Cop - still gives me chills when I think about certain scenes in this movie.

Starship Troopers - Satire at its finest(I loved this movie-- very relevant theme)

Pitch Black(entirely conventional monster movie done unconventionally - great characters

Star Wars(original-not that jedi was excellent)

The Matrix - before they ruined it with 2 and 3, it was a workable story with beautiful action sequences/as artful as they were kinetic.

Startrek - I put it up there for sheer epic appeal, though I think there's more bad than good in the franchise.

Twilight Zone original series- so damn good. Serling was awesome.

X-men - one of the only movies I could have watched just for the fights(between mutants)porfessor x and Magnito sold this for me.

Being Jon Malcovitch

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:56 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
I loved the Matrix trilogy, but was a bit confused about few points after the 3rd episode. Then I found this site....

http://www.thematrix101.com/revolutions/meaning.php

Hey! Thanks for the link!

That site is way easier to read than this site...

The Philosophy of The Matrix
http://www.onwardoverland.com/matrix/philosophy.html

or this book...

The Matrix and Philosophy: Welcome to the Desert of the Real by William Irwin (Editor)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/081269502X/104-3112524-3
956762?v=glance

Somethin' about this is downright unsettlin'...

Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?
http://www.simulation-argument.com/

Apparently, it's being discussed by reputable scientists.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=simulation+argument&btnG=Google+S
earch

---------------

Deep Thoughts...
...by Jack Handey...

"Whether they ever find life there or not, I think Jupiter should be considered an enemy planet."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:02 AM

GIXXER

Well, you've covered all the good ones. Rather than repeat, I'll pick bits I liked.

Firefly. All of it, obviously.

Original Outer Limits. Demon with a Glass Hand. Well stylish.

Babylon 5. Got into it's stride, established the cast and commander as a stern authoritarian. His replacement, the seemingly worryingly lightweight Bruce Boxleitner, proceeded to own everyone and everything. And got himself a Narn bodyguard. Guaranteed immortality.

Delenn facing down the Earth Fleet. "Be somewhere else."

Billy Mumy not having aged a day since Lost in Space, learning Japanese and rebuilding a ZZR1200.

Ivanova never smiling, and only ever being ruffled by Delenn quizzing her about Lady's Problems.

Delenn. The most light up the room smile.

Swedish Meatballs.

Little arc timebombs left everywhere.

Mr Garibaldi.

Walter Koenig. Not the tallest man in the world, but some excellent acting as the non-mechanic Bester.

The King Arthur episode. Could have stank embarrassingly, yet it was strangely dignified and affecting. Who else cheered when Michael York got attacked by disreputable men and G'Kar jumped in to even up the odds?

Zathras. Could have been Binks, but most decidedly wasn't.

Vir. Bullied little clown. Balls of British Steel.

Those Collectors who captured Sheridan after the Minbari had warned them off a few years back. I'm reasonably certain they were visited soon after. Can't say I'm partial to genocide, but fair's fair. They were warned.

Alf amused me highly.

G

"No. No, this report is totally inappropriate. You have to do it again."

"But Londo, why? I've spent weeks working on this report. I didn't even sleep on the flight back from Minbar so I could go over it again. I've checked every single detail myself. It's absolutely accurate."

"Yes, Vir, I'm sure it is. And that is the problem. Here, you say: 'The Minbari have carefully preserved their cities over the course of centuries'."

"That's right, absolutely."

"No, what you should say instead is: 'Their cities are very old indicating a decaying culture.'"

"What?"

"And here: 'The Minbari put great emphasis on art, literature and music.' Say instead: 'They are decadent people, interested only in the pursuit of .. of dubious pleasures.' Dubious-part is very important. It doesn't mean anything, but it scares people every time. All right?"

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:53 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Let's not be excludin' Zathras! That would be rude!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zathras

The Wisdom of Zathras
http://www.loyd.net/osz/wisdom.html

Down Below Sound Archive for Babylon 5
http://b5.cs.uwyo.edu/bab5/
(Use 'Search' for "zathras")

• "Zathras understand. No, Zathras not understand, but Zathras do. Zathras good at doings, not understandings."

• "Zathras warn, but no, no one listen to poor Zathras, no."

• "Zathras not of this time. You take, Zathras die. You leave, Zathras die. Either way, it is bad for Zathras."

• "Can not say. Saying, I would know. Do not know, so can not say."

• "Just covering all possibilities. Zathras does not want you being confused. Bye."

• "Everyone always coming to Zathras with problems. Great responsibilities. But Zathras does not mind. Zathras trained in crisis management."

• "Very damaged. Zathras can never have anything nice."

• "But only Zathras have no one to talk to. No one manages poor Zathras, you see. So Zathras talks to dirt. Sometimes talks to walls, or talks to ceilings. But dirt is closer. Dirt is used to everyone walking on it. Just like Zathras, but we've come to like it. It is our role. It is our destiny in the universe. So, you see, sometimes dirt has insects in it. And Zathras likes insects. Not so good for conversation, but much protein for diet. Ha! Zathras fix now, this way."

• "Zathras is used to being beast of burden to other people's needs. Very sad life. Probably have very sad death. But, at least there is symmetry."

• "Can not run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This... is wrong tool. No. No, not good. No. No. Never use this."

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:04 PM

WUGGLYUMP

TV
Firefly
Blakes 7
Dr. Who
Star Trek (TOS)
Twilight Zone
Outer Limits
X-Files
Star Trek (DS9)
Star Gate SG1
Robotech
Beebop

Movies
Forbidden Planet
Blade Runner
Day the Earth Stood Still (The potential for Hollywood to screw it with ham-handed political partisan pabulum is too great but, I’d trust JW though.)
Matrix (trilogy)
Dune (original Lynch ver)
Serenity
Outland
Akira
Ghost in the Shell
Wrath of Khan

Special Mention
Aliens
Buckaroo Banzai
Gattica

So many more…

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:27 PM

EST120

Wow. Talk about a resurrection.

I started this thread AGES ago. Life was so different back then......

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 12:34 PM

DAISYCUTTER

Quote:
Originally posted by Lalli:

*Event Horizon

Event Horizon is weird but I like it...

-------------------------------------
Q: Why don't we just raise the defensive shields?
A: A superb suggestion with just two major drawbacks. One, we don't have any defensive shields. And two, we don't have any defensive shields. Technically speaking thats only one flaw, but it was such a big one I thought I mention it twice.

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Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:34 PM

BLACKLILY

OMG! Thank you for all the info!

The series seems to end in a way that was totally different from what I expected!
( HA! I KNEW THERE WAS A GOOD REASON I FELL SO HARD FOR IT!!

)

Select to view spoiler:

I can't believe Rinaker turns out to be a Shadoen!! I just thought he was a grouch, that's all! And that lunatic Logan met at Roswell is a Shadoen?! My God, I didnt even know he had any significance in the plot aside from being comic relief! As to Logan and Sh'lainn..those two get married?And Banshee-style at that?(YAAY! Good for them considering I'd heard rumors that Sh'lainn dies in the end or something!)
Once again the series defies all my preconceived notions and leaves me stunned! It's a masterpiece I tell ya! Why don't more ppl know about it?!
Thank you SOO MUCH for all the info!

I was literally floating lost in space before this! The ending is completely different from what I'd imagined it to be!
(Takes a deep breath to calm wild heartbeat)

WHEW! This is too much to digest. A couple of questions though:
1) Who is the Vampire/Banshee hybrid who nearly brings down the ruling Vampire family?
2)What happens to Ti'Yet and does Ruck really die?
3)Who is Fitz's old girlfriend and how does she stumble into an Alliance operation?
4) How do Logan and Sh'lainn end up exchanging life-forces?And does Mab take her back into the clan?

Would you happen to remember any good quotes from the series? Or any particularly funny scenes from the episodes?
I'm thinking I should start a website for this...
Peace to you...

the truth will set you free...
But first it'll piss you off.

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