Why Firefly and Serenity Didn't Become Bigger Hits? by fireflyfan278

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Firefly and Serenity Didn't Become Bigger Hits?

POSTED BY: FIREFLYFAN278
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 15:03
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VIEWED: 7809
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Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:29 AM

Why didn't the TV show Firefly and the movie Serenity become absolutely huge hits?

I have been thinking about this question for a while. Some have blamed the network. Some have blamed the viewers. As I go through watch the series for my 5th and 6th times, I have finally come up with an answer.

I believe that the number one reason that these exquisitely written and directed pieces did not become the mega-hits that they should have been is the titles.

I heard the name Firefly, but made no connection to Science Fiction, space ships, etc. When I finally was talked into watching the first episode when it came on the SciFi channel on a Friday night, I was stunned. Here was an extremely high quality TV show that should have been a smash hit and no one had heard of it. Within a few weeks I had bought the DVD set. I watched the entire DVD set within a week and started again. I have continued to both watch the episodes as they aired on TV (recording them on TIVO) and watching them again as I go through the DVDs.

I strongly believe that if the title had been "Spaceship: Firefly" or "Starship: Firefly", it would have attracted more viewers. Or if the movie had been titled "Spaceship Serenity" or Starship Serenity", it would have made twice as much money.

What an absolute shame! I challenge the FOX channel to air the entire series again with a new title! Throw it on in the summer when ratings are low anyway. I would rather you air it this next spring right after American Idol, but I will settle for anything.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:37 AM

KHYRON

I've also always felt that the theme music was a hindrance. Whenever I forced some newbies to look at the show with me, they liked the opening sequence of the pilot, and then all of a sudden this folky country song comes along. Most people then look at me with a "WTF!?!?" expression on their face and I feel forced to skip past the intro before they give up on the show and leave the room.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:01 AM

TRAKEN

I think the intro theme is great, lets face it most television is for shallow people. if they cannot get past the theme they will probably not like the high quality show FF is.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:02 AM

SPACEHOPPER

I have thought about the choice of names as well. But I didn't think it should have a more sci-fi sounding prefix; I wondered why Whedon chose to go with 'Firefly' rather than 'Serenity' for the series, which I feel is a much stronger name. 'Firefly' isn’t a powerful enough word (I hope you understand what I mean by that) and it conjures the wrong ideas; makes me think of kiddie things and fairies, and doesn’t capture the essence of the program like 'Serenity' does.

As for the music, I agree that at first I thought the same as your friends, Khyron, but now, as I’m sure most of you agree, I can’t picture Firefly without it. So I’m unsure – it’s not brilliant for first impressions and may have caused a few people to turn over, but, having watched the series, I wouldn’t choose anything else.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:21 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceHopper:
As for the music, I agree that at first I thought the same as your friends, Khyron, but now, as I’m sure most of you agree, I can’t picture Firefly without it. So I’m unsure – it’s not brilliant for first impressions and may have caused a few people to turn over, but, having watched the series, I wouldn’t choose anything else.

Okay, but we're talking about newbies here and how they'd react to it, and I don't think it gives such a great first impression to most people, because at first it seems a bit cheesy. To be absolutely honest, I've seen the intro dozens of times already and I'm still not convinced it's the best possible choice. But it's not my kind of music anyway. Now, if Velvet Acid Christ made an industrial remix of the song, then maybe...

As for the name, I agree with what's been said, but adding "Starship: " or something like that in front of "Firefly" would have turned me off from the start (shallow person that I am). How about this: "The Adventures Of Captain Mal And His Loyal Space Monkeys"! Brilliant! They would have made, like literally, HUNDREDS of dollars!

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:59 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by fireflyfan278:
I strongly believe that if the title had been "Spaceship: Firefly" or "Starship: Firefly", it would have attracted more viewers. Or if the movie had been titled "Spaceship Serenity" or Starship Serenity", it would have made twice as much money.

I don't know how many "reasons" I've heard for why Firefly/Serenity weren't bigger hits, including the name thing. I've just settled on: dunno. I don't think it was any one thing, but more like a multitude of forces acting.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:31 PM

SIMONWHO

I think Joss has always had this thing about wanting to have the title drive away the wrong sort of crowd. Buffy the Vampire Slayer? I mean, seriously?

The idea is probably that the first few shows get a smallish but smart, open-minded audience who then tell their friends and the show grows from there. Perhaps if Joss had attended the meeting where the Fox execs insisted it had to get 10m viewers, right out of the gate, then he'd have gone for something more snappy like Super Space Cowboys. And put in Aliens. And had a pulsing rock theme tune. And hired Dakota Fanning for the role of River.

*shudders*

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:42 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Buffy the Vampire Slayer? I mean, seriously?

Wait a minute. That's about the most normal title you could have for Buffy: main character, premise. Bada-boom. Simple. I mean seriously, what else would you call it? No matter what you call it, it goes from wierd to wierder. "Paranormal Investigation Squad". "Ass-Kicker of the Undead". "Hellmouth High". "High School Vampire Killing Girl". I mean, honestly.

Quote:
I think Joss has always had this thing about wanting to have the title drive away the wrong sort of crowd...The idea is probably that the first few shows get a smallish but smart, open-minded audience who then tell their friends and the show grows from there.

Ridiculous. We feel super cool because we're into this thing that nobody else gets--its geek chic, man. Our inner nerd feels vindicated: "I may be a nerd, but you've never seen Firefly. Ha!" We feel elite, in some twisted way. Joss, on the other hand wants lots of people to like the show. He's not going to compromise to get there, mind you, but he's not going to set out to drive folks away. I find it very hard to believe that Joss would name a thing a particular thing in order to get people not to watch. As a matter of fact, in one of the commentaries or documentaries (can't remember which) he said he picked "Firefly" because it evoked the kinds of images he wanted for the show.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:01 PM

ADDIE

I actually got confused with an Aussie drama, which was called Fireflies...which was about fire fighters in the bush. It was a pretty ordinary show.

I'd seen it advertised and thought it was the Aussie show...only on cable tv though. Evidently when it was on here on free to air telly it was on about 11 pm...and I usually dont' stay up that late when I have work the next day.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:12 PM

JUSTLIKESUNDAYMORNING

Psh. I LOVED the intro song when I first watched it. It was beautiful and describes the show really well.

..jen..

Saffron: I do know my bible, sir. On the night of their betrothal the wife shall open to the man as the furrow to the plow. He shall work in her again and again, til she bring him to his full. And rest him then upon the sweat of her breast.
Mal: Whoa. Good bible.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:34 PM

BELFASTBROWNCOAT

I quite like the theme tune-it's different,but catchy.

I don't think it was publicised in the UK much-I only ever heard of it on Buffy boards-I never took much of an interest until Serenity.

After buying the Firefly set-my mind was blown away :D

It's all shiny!

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:40 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I've always thought the title "Space Hooker on the Run" would have brought in a few more viewers.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:42 PM

ERINBC

I don't think there's one single reason, but a combo of lots of things, like Fox shuffling it around, a not so great ad campaign for the film, etc. All that stuff put together, plus the fact that people today would rather watch "Who Wants to Marry a Monkey" than intelligent scripted television, just kept Firefly/Serenity from catching on. However, it does all depend on what you think success is. BSG (airs on cable) gets like 4 million viewers a week and is considered a huge success, yet the latest Star Trek series (aired on network TV) got about that and was considered a flop. Whatever your opinions of the SciFi network, if it had orginally aired on cable and not network TV it's audience numbers may have been considered successful enough to keep the show on for several seasons.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 2:05 PM

TIENSHAODUH

SF in general doesn't get that huge a following anyway, and one that is badly marketed and aired in the wrong order would not have helped its cause.
Serenity too, i only ever saw one trailer at that was it. No posters not anything. I have to spread it by word of mouth and all my friends will take quite a lot of convincing.
I try to explain that it is not the usual SF, and that Joss Whedon writes and directs it.
Then they say oh then it will be like Buffy which i don't like.
Its a neverending battle and as Mal says, "it may have been the losing side, but i am still not convinced it was the wrong one."

=================================================
"God has a plan for you, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone." Number Six '33'
=================================================
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." Carl Sagan
=================================================

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:18 PM

JAYTEE

The reason the series and movie didn't succeed as well as hoped is that it was an adult sci-fi show and film that required a certain minimal level of intelligence to understand and appreciate. It also didn't get the solid support it should have from Fox and from Universal. The main reason for that is that it didn't have cute droids or aliens that they could market to Toys R Us and McDonalds Happy Meals. There is a force greater than The Force and greater than any creative genius like Joss Whedon can overcome and that's the Hollywood Executive Prime Directive: Create for the Lowest Common Denominator. Appeal to the millions of barely thinking sheep that populate this country and you've got a worthwhile market. Appeal to the intelligent viewer and you've got a small minority group of customers that you may not make a buck or two on. Keep your eyes peeled for juicy hits like Jingle All The Way 2 and The Brady Bunch Movie Part 2 coming to vomitoriums near you!

Jaytee

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:02 PM

GELASSENHEIT

i agree with ErinBC, in that it was a number of reasons why Firefly/Serenity was not as popular as it should be. Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong: promotion (or lack thereof), time-slots, genre, title of movie and film, no big star names etc... The only thing the Firefly 'verse has going for it is the dedication of the cast, crew and the fans.

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Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:44 PM

EMMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Gelassenheit:
i agree with ErinBC, in that it was a number of reasons why Firefly/Serenity was not as popular as it should be. Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong: promotion (or lack thereof), time-slots, genre, title of movie and film, no big star names etc... The only thing the Firefly 'verse has going for it is the dedication of the cast, crew and the fans.

Ditto

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Monday, November 28, 2005 12:47 AM

STEVO

While in HMV last Friday afternoon, I come across a DVD on sale called Firefly. I look at the front cover see the Space Ship and the cast. I like Sci-Fi and so picked it up to read the back of the box. Only to realise it is the same ship and cast, as a Movie that I watched not more than a month ago. The point I am labouring to get to is that. Where the hell was the advertising. I dont live in a cave, yet when I saw the movie I didnt even realise that it was from a TV show, and Im not the only one. I subsequently bought the box set and have watched all the episodes, and was hooked from the first one. Told my mates about it only to get the response never heard of it.

By the way I am pretty confident that it wasnt the name that stopped people from tuning into the series. For instance the name Babylon 5 doesnt conjure up aliens and spacecraft. Yet that was a huge success.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 12:52 AM

EMMA

Yep, most of my friends hadn't heard of it either. I did the usual browncoat thing of telling people to go see the film and even though many of them live in London (some are even sci-fi fans) they hadn't heard of the show or the film.

Once people were persuaded to see the film though they all loved it and - surprise, surprise - bought Firefly and loved that too. The promoters made a huge mistake.

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Monday, November 28, 2005 1:33 AM

NELLIE

I agree with Emma that the promoters made a huge mistake, or worse. For example, all my friends in Spain said that Serenity got great critical reviews there and they all wanted to see it, but it was never shown in most of the cities in Spain. It was on at only ONE cinema in Barcelona, and no one is sure if it ever was shown in Madrid. How could it possibly succeed if the promoters never showed it in the cinemas? And why didn't they ever show it in China or Hong Kong, where it would have been a huge hit because of the Chinese language used?
And did you notice the Yahoo movie editors putting the worst D-rated review of Serenity, the one that only c.64 out of c.1564 people found useful, right on the front page?
It's as if somebody wanted it to fail, so they could put it onto DVD as quickly as possible and try to make it disappear. Call me paranoid, but I can't help wondering if somebody powerful in the film industry just doesn't like Joss or one of the Firefly cast. It is very, very strange, and I wish somebody would investigate exactly how this film was promoted in the States and abroad.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 3:46 AM

JETFLAIR

Well, darn, I went and left my crystal ball behind on the one day I could have used it

I could not for the life of me give a credible answer as to why these weren't huge hits, especially since me and everyone I know likes them.

I imagine the fact that the show wasn't aired for long, and that the way it was aired was screwed up had to do with it. Also, Serenity was released during a time period when even movies with big-name stars were struggling to pull in the dollars.

Personally, I think the show's theme and credits probably attracted as many people as it ran off, if not more. I fell in love with the thing immediately. When I watch TV on DVD, I always skip the intro credits - except Firefly, which I watch every time.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

"Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you when she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." .......We love you, captain.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence and then.....explode"

Zoe necklace replica and other jewelry at www.exoticcatz.com/fireflyshop , Firefly/Serenity images at www.exoticcatz.com/fireflyphotos>

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Monday, November 28, 2005 4:18 AM

ACESANDEIGHTS

Quote:
Originally posted by jetflair:
When I watch TV on DVD, I always skip the intro credits - except Firefly, which I watch every time.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Exactly! Southerners can appreciate some good ol' folk music, not like those Yanks and their Rock

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Monday, November 28, 2005 9:51 PM

BROWNCOATER

I blame viewers in general. So many of the mainstream tv watchers have been brainwashed by the Star Trek garbage. (And to me, it is garbage. Star Trek is largely a Socialist universe).
I heard comments like "Well I liked the Star Trek and Star Wars stuff, but I just couldn't get into Firefly."
Of course, Fox garbling up the episodes hurt quite a bit.
And, I've said before I found the lack of aliens in the show brilliant, because I don't believe there are any aliens in our solar system. There is life in space, no doubt, but not anything close enough to visit us. Alot of people thought the opposite.

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Monday, November 28, 2005 11:11 PM

EMMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Browncoater:
(And to me, it is garbage. Star Trek is largely a Socialist universe).

I've never bought into the idea that ST is a socialist universe. It seems a might fascist to me. In fact I find it very hard to tell the difference between the Alliance and the Federation.

That is another thread though...

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:19 PM

MAXGREMLIN

Hmmm...Why is that neither the show nor the movie were a success? Well as far as the show is concerned, I agree with what many have said in that it is a dark time for sci-fi on television these days. Unless a show is a supernova hit right out of the gate, chances are the network is not going to get behind it. Sci-fi shows are expensive and as such have no patience with them. Also, Fox just didn't know what to make of FF. Is it a scifi show, is it a western? Is the show totally schizo?

As far as the film is concerned, that is a tougher question. The time of year in which it was released didn't help. I think it would have done better as a holiday film myself. My biggest concern has been for newbies being dropped into a story already in progress. Add to that the stigma of it being a movie based on a "failed" tv series some people probably thought that it just wasn't worth their time. Also, the fact that a highly spirited group of fans revived the show into movie might have worked against us. When people think of dedicated sci-fi fans they get images longhaired, overweight, stubbly faced geeks who still live at home. The kind of people William Shatner told to "get a life" in that infamous SNL sketch.

Which of cource is not us. Heck my 60 year old mother is now a browncoat. She loves the show to death and is not typically a sci-fi fan.

Anyway, lets look at whats in our favor now. I was at Best Buy the other day and Firefly was on their New Release table at the front of the store. The set was released 3 years ago! The movie only increased our fanbase, not lessened it. The dvd of the movie is getting alot of preorder action on Amazon just like the series did. I was in Suncoast Movie store yesterday and say Malcom Reynolds action figures. And just about everyone I've talked to say that they get hooked on the show after watching one episode.

Its like a virus, really. And maybe im wrong, but I have a feeling that the people at Universal know this. They are just waiting to see just how far this virus will spread. If they like what they see, they'll greenlight a sequel. That's why its still on us to spread the word as much as we can. If get em at the big screen, we'll get em with the small screen.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:19 PM

BROWNCOATER

Wow, I've been lectured several times over the years by economists on the Star Trek universe being socialistic. I've never heard it was fascist.

Oh well. Quality shows like Firefly die on the vine, yet the run of the mill crap that makes up evening television on most nights continues on.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:21 PM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by maxgremlin:
And just about everyone I've talked to say that they get hooked on the show after watching one episode.

Its like a virus, really. And maybe im wrong, but I have a feeling that the people at Universal know this. They are just waiting to see just how far this virus will spread. If they like what they see, they'll greenlight a sequel. That's why its still on us to spread the word as much as we can. If get em at the big screen, we'll get em with the small screen.

I agree with all of this... I've seen it first hand! Everyone I share this show with- they've fallen in love with it! To the point where they talk about it with me, ask me questions, tell me they are not getting work done at home, because they are watching it!
I play it at my job, on the tv in my office....and people lean in my doorway and watch, all ages, all genders and they ask me, " "What is that?" and they wanna know how to see more of it... it IS a virus and I think that the folks at Universal know that it'll spread like that thru everyone who is exposed. I think Joss and they are COUNTING on it. And I'm just gonna keep on spreading it.

"Everything looks good from here..." Wash

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:36 PM

ROSSARONI

Seems like everyone's on the same track, but for the sake of coherence I'll try and tie everything together.

Serenity did badly because it had problems with marketing and because the average moviegoer prefers action/teen comedy/horror over sci-fi anything. Essentially the only crowd for this movie were 16-30 (30's probably pushing it), and in that age range only a certain kind of person would be able to recognize Serenity for what it is from previews/critics alone.

Firefly did badly because Fox dropped the ball. Full stop.

If you ask me, though, it's of no consequence that neither work has taken off yet (although I'd say Firefly has taken off with DVD sales, and Serenity will undoubtedly follow). The reason I say that is because Joss Whedon's career is about to explode with Wonder Woman. Now I may be a bit pretentious saying that WW is gonna be a big hit, but unless it's as bad as Elektra.......bahahahahahahahaha! Okay, sorry. Yeah, WW's gonna be a hit. After that happens, Joss's price will go up and then studios will be wanting him to do other work, and it's going to be that much easier for him to continue the Firefly story, which he wants to do. Can't stop the signal...

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Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:38 PM

ROSSARONI

Quote:
Oh well. Quality shows like Firefly die on the vine, yet the run of the mill crap that makes up evening television on most nights continues on.

Wait a minute! CSI: is a good show. ESPN has a lot of good shows.

Okay, other than those exceptions, I'm with ya.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:03 PM

BROWNCOATER

I don't watch sports, so ESPN is out.

CSI, Law and Order, most of those programs get alot of things dead wrong, especially gun-related "facts", and are filled with social/political stereotyping, much of it inaccurate. I respectfully disagree they are good shows.
Just about everything on network tv to me is junk.

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