Joss' Farewell to the UB by Jadehand

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss' Farewell to the UB

POSTED BY: JADEHAND
UPDATED: Monday, January 9, 2006 05:08
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 15018
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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:27 AM

Didn't see this anywhere else yet, we knew the UB was closing down, but here are The Mas....Ummm Joss' words....
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/index.html?fuseaction=for
um.viewtopic&t=27565

Quote:
Posted: 30 Dec 2005 11:32 am
Post subject: Good Night and Good GOD there's something on my leg!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahh! Spider! Spider!

No wait. Lint.

Ahh! Lint! Malevolent lint!

Oookay, where was I? Um, time of sadness... transition... live forever in our hearts....

Sorry, I want this post to be really special, I'm just going through my notes. Be with you guys in a sec.

Ahhh... done the improbable... joke about dolphins... majestic DVD art... OH! Hey! Here we go:

Thanks a bunch.

Cool. I thought that went well. Some sentiment, but not maudlin... quality post. The one to go out on, if nobody notices my irrational fear of lint. I think the Browncoats will gain strength from my timely message, or from working out regularly. Anyway, my heart will go on. My liver's a house of cards, though, I kid you not.

Callous? Who said that? Maybe you're callous, mister TROLL! I'm not callous. I got the same feeling when I heard the board was closing down as every one else. But I'm old. Really, really old. Like, Keanu Reeves Old. (God, he's well preserved.) So I've seen this before. The Bronze. The Angelix. The Portly Norwegian Bondage House. All come and gone. What remains? Only two things. The first is Homestar Runner. Go Homestar! Teen Girl Squad! Let's get ready to look SOO GOOD!

The second, guess what, is love.

No flying lessons, don't worry, but what we get from the shows, the films, and the time on these boards -- from each other -- just can't get shut down. You guys gave me so much hope and support... and I gave you a movie so, you know, advantage me. But still. What this place was is sweet, what it will always be is treasured.

I got props for the Uni's for putting this up -- oh, and for making my damn (excuse me, BIG damn) movie. All things must pass. We'll find each other again, especially if any of you are portly, Norwegian and 'open-minded'.

I'll do my best to tell stories that cause as much trouble as this one did. And if I ever get the chance to return to this one... in case it was ever unclear due to shoddy journalism, sign me right the hell up.

You guys are the best crew flying.

Thanks a bunch.

-j.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live
"He's seen too much of life And there's no going back.
The loneliness calls him, And the edge which must be sharpened,
He's losing it. And he knows.
But there's a fighter in his mind and his body's tough
The years have been unkind, but kind enough." -Ocean Cloud (Marbles) -Marillion

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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:36 AM

BWARE42

Nice post. I like this Whedon guy more and more every day!

I got here late, but I got here. Thanks again for a cool tv series and an excellent movie. It's funny, watching my Firefly/Serenity dvds beats 97% of everything else that's on tv right now.

Okay, enough. I'm going to put on my Blue Sun tee and curl up in the fetal position for a while...

Happy New Year y'all!

I'll be in my bunk. Orignal, ain't it?

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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:43 AM

PSOLARIS

Damn...where's your box of kleenex when ya need one.

I do hope that he gets to continue telling the story in some way. Cuz if he does, then sign me the hell up too!

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Friday, December 30, 2005 9:47 AM

CHINDI

sniff sniff... here psolaris.. I got a box right here..

Honestly, there are tears.. real emotion...

but at least we still have FFF...

Love Joss' humor. Love that he cares so deeply. It is a strange, unique and wonderful thing, this browncoat/firefly thing.

Chindi (looking for the sad emoticon)

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Friday, December 30, 2005 10:37 AM

MATTIE

Joss is wonderful! I was surprised to find out that the official Serenity website was being closed. It definetly came as a shocker.
BTW, what DOES this mean for the franchise? Is Universal giving up on the movie? What's going on?
If someone could please fill me on on what this means for our little boat, I would really appreciate it.
--Mattie

Wacky fun!

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Friday, December 30, 2005 10:45 AM

SPINLAND

It was never more than a movie marketing tool for Universal, and since there's no further need to market the movie in their eyes, no need to pay to maintain the board. Just like they obliterated the TV show sets, rebuilt them for the BDM and then tore them down again to make room for the next project, if/when there's a sequel they'll just stand up a new board when they decide it'll serve a marketing purpose. It's never been a gift for the fans, just part of doing business.

Spinny the Cynical

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Friday, December 30, 2005 10:57 AM

SAMEERTIA

Funny, but it still hurts.

We just have to figure out a way for the 'verse to go on, won't we?

I feel a little like Kaylee in War Stories when she looks at Jayne and says, "Can they do that?"

If you tell me no, it'll break my heart!

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Friday, December 30, 2005 12:07 PM

CHOLLETT

I feel like singing a song...a particular one...

"So long, and thanks for all the fish.
So sad that it should come to this....."

heh. Sad to see it go, but some goood memories. Also the reaching of the rank of 60th didn't hurt.

And there's always FFF.net.

"So long, so long, and THANKS!
..for all the fiiiiish"

I'm babbling like a moonbrain.

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Friday, December 30, 2005 12:24 PM

MATTIE

Well said, Chollett! That song is AWESOME!!! And it works well in this case. Keep up the good work everyone. We'll beat those stupid suits one day and ressurect our show! I just know it.

Wacky fun!

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Friday, December 30, 2005 12:49 PM

VIKING

viking feels real sleepy know and evrything is getting a bit surreal

and whats this about norwegian bondage ??

oter wise great we will have more Firefly YaY

The wages of sin are death, but the hours are good and the perks are fantastic.

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Friday, December 30, 2005 3:48 PM

WANTMORE

You have made a heaping big pile of great karma, JW. Thanks for the memories!

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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:21 PM

CMOTORS

Well, it looks like the Firefly universe as we know it has in all likelihood come to an end. Unless Universal comes chasing after Joss to make another film, the story (as told by Joss) ends here. Joss worked real hard to continue the story after the series cancellation, and that resulted in Serenity. Because Serenity did not meet with better theatrical success, you will not see the same fight to keep it flying. It's either going to fly under it's own steam, or not. Joss is at a point where he can now walk away from it, if that is ultimately what is in the cards. Not by choice, but acceptance of things that are not under his control. I'm sure if he had his way, he'd continue making Firefly stuff for us, even if Nathan can't be any less turnipy.

I personally feel that Firefly's only possible future was in TV. It's strength was it's characters that everyone loved, and how we could slowly see them evolve. Hence the number of main characters that the show hosted. The long mysterious story arcs were also a major plus. These things do not translate to the big screen very well at all, and Joss' work at that was nothing short of a miracle. However, the limitations of the medium are still there. The problems is, is that if Universal wants to go further, it would be another movie, which again would be at a disadvantage as per the above mentioned reasons. It is a hard sell indeed.

The best possible scenario would be a series on TV, such as Sci Fi channel. Even if it were just a mini series. Anything else would just be a waste of time in the grand scheme of things. Besides, the Firefly DVDs keep selling, which means it is a hit with couch potatos, who are generally not found in the wilds of theater land. Sure, we expect them to buy the Serenity dvd too, but the movie does not have the same depth (see reasons above) as Firefly, and its results will likely correspond to that difference. Goodbye Firefly universe, you will be missed.

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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:33 PM

CHINDI

Ya know CMOTORS.. I GET why you feel that way.. it's just, that I don't.... Joss loves this 'verse. And I agree that if he needs to leave it he will.. BUT he has said over and over, as have ALL THE CAST, that this was something very special. Unique. And that they would all be back in a heart beat, given the chance...

So while I believe we have a bit more waiting to do.. I believe there is more Firefly coming somehow, someway, and somewhere, sometime...

Reasonable people can differ.. and so we do..

for me, the fuel cells are hall full..

Peace
Chindi

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Friday, December 30, 2005 8:33 PM

CHINDI

Dang double posts!! LOL

Peace
Chindi

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Friday, December 30, 2005 9:10 PM

WHITEFALL

I agree with the previous post a few up... the UB is ultimately a marketing tool, no matter what we made it into. Thus, its closing really doesn't mean anything.

Frankly, this post from Joss is hands down the best thing i've read in a long, long time. Like it or not, he is the lynchpin, the keystone... without him it all falls apart. But with him... well, we'll keep flying, one way or another.

Maybe once stargate ends sci-fi will want a new show, or, well, whatever. After all, Whedon is busy on Wonderwoman for awhile, so /shrug. Despite what you may have heard, the movie was about a million short of making up its money last i checked (that is US+intl box offices) and with DVD sales doin fine, we did make up the budget. So, ironically, though we broke even, Serenity II, or another series, or anything, would be greatly helped by the movie. The fact is, while tons didnt see it, tons DID, and liked it. We expanded our fanbase by leaps and bounds with the movie. We're stronger than ever. Now, Whedon is unavailable for a bit, so don't jump to conclusions for awhile now.

Ok, that whole paragraph was conjecture, cept for those figures.... but what aint is that we have our captain, we have our crew, and as long as we have that, we have hope.

I survived a day in Whitefall and all I got was this lousy signature!

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

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Friday, December 30, 2005 10:01 PM

FLORALBUNNY

snif

take good care of your organs, joss, so we don't have to ship you a volunteer browncoat full of replacements....

bun
-- Bastards singed my turtle --

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Friday, December 30, 2005 10:42 PM

PSANDUSKY

Is the entire Uni site closing down (like the icon gallery/archive)?

ETA: Gonk. Well, yes, it is. Just noticed the thread a few down in the news column. Uh... oopsh.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 12:15 PM

MRISWITH

Death to the suits! Long live the Brown Coats!

I hope against hope that the show will be resurrected. Or, if nothing else, at least one more movie. I'm always surprised at how great a show, seriously amazing, could undergo such struggle. Anyways, Joss' words were great. Although I put high hopes in what he can do next, nothing will be Firefly except Firefly. I will do my part and keep getting other people hooked on the series.

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Sunday, January 1, 2006 8:54 PM

CHRISPV

Joss isn't leaving us. I don't think he can. I predict that every year or so, we'll get a comic series. Or a novel or two. It might be a while before we get to see our beloved BDHs again on the screen, but I haven't a doubt in my head that the 'verse will go on, not only with Joss' blessing but with his hands firmly on the wheel. The only X factor is the medium.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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Monday, January 2, 2006 12:54 AM

IMALRIGHT

id have to agree ChrisPV

Okay on to my feature presentation. One of the cliches of writing, artistic or not, is that you must write about what you know. For a show with such a raw emotional feel to it and the parellels between Serenity's crew and the fanbase I don't think we need fear Mr. Whedon walking away. At times life Imitates art, the world turns- you do the impossible, and then life can in turn be imitated. "Look at that man's face... ...thats love." (forgive my paraphrasing) In that scene we the fans are Simon and Serenity (again *wink* objects in space) is River. Whedon writes of flawed heros willing to die for nothing more than a shot at the open sky and freedom. Thus if the connection between a writer and what he writes truly lives up to the cliche, how could he really walk away from it. Would Mal?

I'd like to say that I am one of these new post- Serenity-dvd release converts to the Browncoat way, although I feel a bit more like Dr. Tam getting "the-lay-of-the-land" on these forums at the moment. So please bare with me even though I wasnt there in serenity valley with you folk fighting the good fight.

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Monday, January 2, 2006 7:57 AM

FOREVERSHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Whitefall:
Frankly, this post from Joss is hands down the best thing i've read in a long, long time. Like it or not, he is the lynchpin, the keystone... without him it all falls apart. But with him... well, we'll keep flying, one way or another.

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

That's it exactly! Joss won't give up, he can't give up, so, somehow, she'll keep flyin'.....Hopefully.

*Crossing fingers supersticiously*

~ForeverShiny~
~~~~~~~~~~~
Can't stop the signal!
"No, Cap'n, I think it's shiny!"--Kaylee, o'course.
"Yeah, but she's our witch, so cut her the hell down." --Mal in "Safe."
"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home." --Mal in "Serenity" My all-time fav quote. Love it!

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Monday, January 2, 2006 11:38 AM

ZOID

Willkommen, und 'Bien Venue', ImAlright! ...umm ...I mean, "You're alright!", ImAlright. Wow, transactional analysis flashback. My head hurts...

At any rate, user named "ImAlright", welcome to the boards. "We're so glad you found us." (Extra points if you can name the movie that quote is from. Hint: Large Germanic actor's -- from whom the quote -- best work.)

You wrote, in part:

Quote:
...So please bare with me...

Were you by any chance looking for PortlyNorwegianBondage(dot)com, as mentioned in JW's post? I suppose we could bear with you whilst you bare yourself...

'The English language': what a concept!

But speaking of 'baring' with one another, what ever shall become of the Cleavage thread at the NOB? All that feminine pulchritude flushed down the bitbin?!?

Makes me wanna cry... No, it's okay... I'm alright. umm... I mean "I am alright"... And so is ImAlright... Oh, piffle.

Boob-ly,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, January 2, 2006 12:45 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Thanks for the linkage to Joss being his usual effervescent self.
Even when we have no new Joss to unwind and look under the edges for meaning, at least there is still Joss to squidge.
*how quickly she forgets her brand squeeky new DVD*

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
"We're so glad you found us." (Extra points if you can name the movie that quote is from.

Oh, piffle.

blaaaaaaaaaaaaade...........................runnah

careful, piffle might hear you...and she is one tough mean chica

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Monday, January 2, 2006 5:36 PM

CHRISISALL

Spinland was right; dollars keep her in the black when she ought to be in the red. I always got that 'temporary' feel from the OB, but that's the way of things. At least Gossi is keepin' up a site. That's love.

Chrisisall, flyin' without containment

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Monday, January 2, 2006 5:44 PM

ZOID

liminalosity:

A pleasure to make your acquantaince, points awarded for a correct answer. I read your Profile. It's a damshame more folk don't follow your example. Very interesting... A fellow 'seeker', hmmm?

I'd like to think that the 'world' could run on pure Love; but, I strongly doubt it. All of reality appears to be at least dualistic, from its most fundamental aspects and upward. Love can be as destructive as Abhorrence (Hatred is its cancerous form, which attacks the undisciplined heart). The successful approach, in my studied opinion, is one that properly channels these conflicting emotions -- and many others -- into a constructive unity. The drive to better oneself and one's community is rooted in abhorrence for substandard conditions, but is annealed with a love for what could be.

Love can be as constricting as Hatred can be blinding. Think of those who would control your every thought, word and action, because they 'love' you so much and they do not want you to go 'astray'. Love can be dictatorial, too, and just as mercilessly evil.

As for 'power', I know nothing of that, except that it tends to gravitate around people who are willing to do things to get it that I could never do. I just don't necessarily agree with Jung that love and power are "shadows" of one another... As the great philosopher, Huey Lewis, once said, "That's the power of love! Can you feel it?"

Well, I'll meet you on the other side of the holograph and we can kick back, enjoy some heavenly brew and compare notes. First one there is a killjoy.

Philosophically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Lo-faast! Nehody maar! Te vady a Blade, Blade Runner!" -Gaff, Blade Runner, my very favorite sci-fi movie

"In Heaven there is no beer; that's why we drink it here." -Traditional Drinking Song, and my rationale for why Prince Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia must be Heaven

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Monday, January 2, 2006 6:36 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

my very favorite sci-fi movie

He's a replicant tricked into wondering if he's a replicant and in the process denying that he conclusivly could be a replicant due to his very questioning of his being a replicant to delay his discovering he is a replicant; that's why he fights like my Grandma, and he's known Bryant for years!

Seein' into the truth (?) Chrisisall

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Monday, January 2, 2006 8:16 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
I read your Profile. It's a damshame more folk don't follow your example. Very interesting... A fellow 'seeker', hmmm?

"Lo-faast! Nehody maar! Te vady a Blade, Blade Runner!" -Gaff, Blade Runner, my very favorite sci-fi movie

Well, dang, a fellow thread hijacker as well!
Zoidishness...you may actually have been the very human impetus whose comment to a troll in a long ago thread had me find my profile and figure out what to do with it...serendipity!

Imo, only love is love, but the shadow is the other side of the dualism. I think this reality uses dualism as the motivating force in development of consciousness, and the thing that strangles you and makes you weep is the shadow in its many guises (hate, fear, shame, jealousy, rage...) masquerading as love. Between this hammer and anvil are the heart, mind and spirit annealed.

I look forward to many fine encounters with you in this portion of Wonderland! Here's to mare's tail clouds in a cobalt sky.

Blade Runner is the mighty finest and most convolute movie, and Syd Mead was magnificent.

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:13 AM

ZOID

liminalosity wrote:

Quote:
...Imo, only love is love, but the shadow is the other side of the dualism. I think this reality uses dualism as the motivating force in development of consciousness, and the thing that strangles you and makes you weep is the shadow in its many guises (hate, fear, shame, jealousy, rage...) masquerading as love. Between this hammer and anvil are the heart, mind and spirit annealed. ...

I agree with your conclusions, in the main. Not just from some purely academic viewpoint, but as a result of my life experiences -- some very good, some very bad, and a lot in between -- and the conclusions I've reached as a result of careful and continuous introspection of their consequences.

Still, I contend that one can have too much of a good thing. The middle path is the best. And I let my own self-contradictory nature have its head, as you can probably tell, since you've read some of my posts...

Ummm... And it's really bad news that the UB -- or New Official Board: NOB, as I call it -- is closing shop. As I pointed out in a post there, serenitymovie(dot)com is printed on the backside of the DVD released on the 20th of December '05. So I guess the message is "Buy our Big Damn DVD and then hurry on over to our website and get to know our wonderful community of fans, because we're pulling the plug on the site in two weeks?!?

Does that seem right to you?

Squawking 7500,

zoid

P.S.
Guess I'm gonna have to write "Shadow" my ownself. Looks like no one else is going to.

_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

"An unexamined life is not worth living." -Socrates

"You've got to lose, to know how to win." -Steven Tyler, philosopher extraordinaire

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:23 PM

LIMINALOSITY

*wonders if Joss' next theme will include malevolent lint*
Hey, maybe since the OB is closing Joss will put on a Groucho mask and post fanfic here?

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Still, I contend that one can have too much of a good thing. The middle path is the best. And I let my own self-contradictory nature have its head, as you can probably tell, since you've read some of my posts...

Sorry...didn't mean to sting...I was looking to find the edges after offending a poster in the anarchy of the 1st week of Oct, and stumbled into that thread, lol, not tailing you.

Middle path, huh? One of my personal favorites...I find that when I actually manage to stay near the center, the love becomes softer; compassion, agape, rather than passion, and a suddenly accessible humor offers gentler perspective on the pain of the shadow.

From the Dalai Lama's instructions for life in the new millenium...
#5 Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
#7 When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it.
#19 Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon.

"I, while the gods laugh, the world's vortex am;
Maelstrom of passions in that hidden sea
Whose waves of all-time lap the coasts of me.
And in small compass, the dark waters cram." -Mervyn Peake

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 10:31 PM

KASLUVSG1

I am new to the Firefly Universe but I immediatly fell in love with it. I don't think for a second that Firefly won't be coming back, because other people will fall love with it just as I have. Something as special as what you have here won't just fade away, as long as you keep posting and nagging the suits.

Hopefully, I will be around for Firefly's next running. If I'm not, at least I won't forget. What I have heard, tells of something great.

When you can't run, you walk. And when you can't do that... you find someone to carry you

Quote:
I aim to misbehave

-Mal

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Tuesday, January 3, 2006 10:31 PM

KASLUVSG1

Sorry *sheepish grin*
Double post

kas

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Wednesday, January 4, 2006 10:40 PM

ZOID

liminalosity wrote, in part:

Quote:
Sorry...didn't mean to sting...I was looking to find the edges after offending a poster in the anarchy of the 1st week of Oct, and stumbled into that thread, lol, not tailing you...

No 'sting' felt, no offense taken, and none intended in return. Maybe I should have said "since you've read at least one of my posts"?

I used to post several times a week on this site, until about mid-July past. That's when it started to get too 'anarchic' (although I'd tend to call it 'chaotic') on this board. But as I've sporadically said since, I am at home here, and will begin to resume a more active role, as I have done here in the past couple of weeks.

As I said, It's very good to make your acquaintance. I does like me a thinker... Here's a snippet from another post of mine, from long ago, which describes my notions of the universe (note the 'shadowy' context). Be sure and follow the link, also.

Quote:
TiPpY and manwithpez:

Semi-interestingly, I wouldn't know from Plato's Cave, if it hadn't been referred to as philosophically prescient of Gerard 't Hooft's Holographic Principle (further refined by Susskind and elaborated upon by Bohm, et al). See http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Holographic_Universe/id/34895 for complete article written in layman's terms, by physicist Jacob Bekenstein reprinted from Scientific American (a notoriously 'pop-sci' mag, apparently). The 'experiencefestival' website looks to consist of crystal-wearing, third-eye stuff; but this particular article appears to be a faithful reprint.

So, I learned about Plato's Cave, by learning about physics and cosmology, which was prompted by memorizing The Galaxy Song from "Monty Python's Meaning of Life", which was a comical look at philosophy ("Ahm so sorry! Ah deed not know we had a rass-cist workin' here!").
[EDIT: That's a Philosophy from Physics from Comedy from Philosophy round-tripper, for those attempting to keep score.]

As Steve Martin's character said in "Grand Canyon" (another life-changing movie): "All of life's riddles are answered in the movies."

Pseudo-Intellectually,

zoid

For you and kasluvsg1, this link ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=8029) takes you to my paean to FFFn, my home/haunt on the 'net. It's a fairly awful stab at a profession of love for this joint that I wrote back in Aught-Four, and which prompted another poster -- a high school English III teacher -- to politely ask me if I had yet graduated from secondary education. Yikes. But it was intended to be celebratory of FFFn, and descriptive of what this place means to me. Hopefully, we'll all be able to call this place home, and that no one will unceremoniously pull the plug on us, as they have done to the community of the NOB.

Alluding to my link, I guess Universal have decided Lascaux is the perfect site for a multilevel car park...

Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
The good news is that I've got FFFn archived on CD-R. So if this place ever does get the HAL-9000 treatment, at least I'll still be able to jack in to a static backup.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Sunday, January 8, 2006 8:14 PM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Here's a snippet from another post of mine, from long ago, which describes my notions of the universe (note the 'shadowy' context). Be sure and follow the link, also.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Holographic_Universe/id/34895

[EDIT: That's a Philosophy from Physics from Comedy from Philosophy round-tripper, for those attempting to keep score.]

As Steve Martin's character said in "Grand Canyon" (another life-changing movie): "All of life's riddles are answered in the movies."

Alluding to my link, I guess Universal have decided Lascaux is the perfect site for a multilevel car park...

the HAL-9000 treatment

Curiouser and curiouser...there's just so much here.
I couldn't let this sit any longer while I wander around in links from what you handed off in this post. I enjoy thinking down the backtrail of what led me to what, and often it's art leading to truths and back to art around in the spiral, but for me the connections as often involve people and the serendipitous connections between us.

Thank you Zoid.

I very much enjoyed your story. FFF is an incomparible cave of wonders, and I am regularly astonished by the things I read here. I find such strong resonance with many of the people, and have already had so many encounters with parallel thought, it gets a little weird.

The Holographic Principle was, yeah, pretty much the scientific explanation for what I think about It all in Its enormity. I was never too happy about black holes, but this article shed new light on that whole idea. Following one of the links in the article, I found an article about entropy ( www.secondlaw.com) which debunks the use of the word 'disorder' in the concept of entropy. Yippie! My experience of the sciences is exceeded by my interest in and understanding of them, and that's unfortunate for the purposes of discussion and the epiphany a good discussion provokes. This is something I'm currently working to change. The professor of chemistry who wrote the article altered one of my least favorite aspects of entropy; the concept of 'disorder' in entropy. I've always felt that the definition was incorrectly applied to the concept. This sort of cognitive dissonance is one of the things that has kept me from reading much about science, particularly physics. So while there's a lot about science that I grok, I don't own the lexicon. I crave a full understanding of physics, I love this crazy universe. You've already read that I suspect 'random' is a term we incorrectly apply to patterns we are currently unable to comprehend. I feel the same about 'spontaneous'. I think the concept of 'chaos' as patternless disorder should be hijacked and altered as well. So, I'll be ignoring that dissonance while I read more of this, because I see the possibility of dissonance resolution.

Being holographic itself, your link (experiencefestival) had information from the other side of the woo-woo. The intersection of science and the woo-woo is one of my favorite things. There are puzzle pieces I've been searching years to find, and a that site had a couple of them for me. One of those will help with something I have been very focused on for the past couple of months. Again, thank you Zoid.

Lascaux? One of my favorite places. I've read a bit about paleolithic art, and I use those sorts of images fairly often. This is on Rel's site (shadowdepository) The image is something I did (Thoth across the River Styx) the text and hieroglyphics are Rel's.
http://www dot theshadowdepository dot co dot uk/creations/wallpapers/wp05.jpg
*edit to add: I didn't really want the whole thing here, it's just too big. You can follow Rel's link...
http://www.theshadowdepository.co.uk/index.htm /edit*
Last year I painted a whole room in my studio with creatures from the caves, handprints, and some of my favorite quotes lettered on the walls. This is a link to a book about depictions of shamanism in paleolithic art. They do some of their own debunking of the 'random' interpretation of meaning in ancient art.

http://tinyurl.com/8uz2p

Grand Canyon? I was there a week ago, and thought about the movie then because it was quite a thing, that movie. I've been to the canyon maybe 10 times, and this time the weather was so perfect it was more beautiful this time than the first.

I think this place would only ever get the Hal-9000 treatment in some other part of the hologram. Besides, if Haken decides to pull the plug, we'll all take it off his hands.
That moment in 2040? When you realize what happened to Hal, the betrayal? It was a sound that went from gasp to sob, and tears sprang from my eyes.

I hope we have the opportunity to do more of this pixelated talking thing soon. This is suddenly remarkable.

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."

'It's full of stars'

Shiny Trees! Yavanna made Shiny Trees!

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Monday, January 9, 2006 1:21 AM

ZOID

liminalosity:

Sir A.C. Clarke has long been one of my favorite authors. (NB: I'm more of a sci-fi guy than a fantasy guy, btw.) You knew he 'invented' the geosynchronous satellite, right? .. Without which the Internet would certainly be a lot more primitive ('primitive' in a bad way). And we may eventually get his 'space elevator' if they can get the materials figured out. (NASA unspooled some cable on a recent mission, as a precursor test.)

Try editing your last post, and pasting this link http://tinyurl.com/8uz2p into the spot where you have the Amazon link to the book about shamanism. The one you've got in there is sooo long it breaks the page and forces one to 'side scroll'. It's a little thing; but, I have problems trying to get back to the beginning of the next line and carry the train of thought. Try the Tinyurl above, and you'll see it takes you to the exact same place, in the exact same way (i.e., without adding a frame or a popup, etc.).

Having been a singer in rock bands for almost ten years coming out of high school, I have long held a fascination for shamans, my forebears and brothers. At its very best, a rock performance is a shared physical and spiritual experience. I can't tell you how many times I got the distinct impression that I was the head of an enormous super-organism, with individual humans as its cells; each of them cognizant, but a part of something larger, with its own identity and will. It's a very odd (and powerful) sensation, I can tell you, and one of the only things I truly miss from my 'playing days'.

I know you believe 'power' to be the antithesis of 'love', and "the only true evil"; but, I'd have to cite this example as proof that it ain't necessarily so. Power can be wielded to the enrichment of all, if it passes through the right conduit. Speaking of which, that's how it felt to me, at least to the extent that words can describe it at all: My moments at the head of the throng felt as though the entire crowd's energy was flowing through me. Humans in a single quantum phase state, humans as a plasma, humans as a superconductor... I suspect any shaman worth her/his salt shared exactly that same feeling.

To everybody, or at least anyone who might be reading this: That was what I meant about this place being Lascaux. Individually, we may not realize the full nature of what we are doing when we post here (any kind of post: silly, mad, thoughtful, etc.); but, we are sharing ourselves in a way that makes the sum greater than its constituent parts, if we can see it through a wide enough lens. That's something that both connects us with -- and distinguishes us from -- the rest of the animal kingdom. It's uniquely human.

*zoid drops the lump of coal, and backs away from the wall, brushing the black dust from his hands onto his leggings*

Maybe Just A Little Crazily, Hmm?,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, January 9, 2006 5:08 AM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Maybe Just A Little Crazily, Hmm?

Yeah, I think we're all just a little crazily formed.

Arthur C Clark's imagining of the geosync satelite; a thing must be imagined before it can be brought into being. Are you familiar with Wm Gibson? He imagined an internet very much like the one we tread in, in the early '80's. This is one of the things I so enjoy about Sci Fi. I read it thinking 'will this be soon?'

I altered the link, thanks. I'm new to the internet wander, and not familiar with many of the mechanisms. The first time I read a post here where someone had inserted a link to another thread, my comment was 'won't that cause an event horizon?'

Performance and shamanistic ritual are two methods for a group to access the collective unconscious in ways that can use power to lift the group with shared joy, wisdom, healing. As you say, it can be an amazing experience for the channel through which that flows as well. There's nothing wrong with being empowered by others, the trick is all in how you use the power given you.

My understanding of 'will to power' in the Jung quote is 'asserting your will over the other's choice'. Power of itself I don't at all believe to be a bad thing, only when it's used for force or control over 'the other' does it slip into the shadow. I think he means power over the other in oneself as well; that one's own dark places also need to be brought into the light and healed, not forced to lie down in the corner.

I think your idea that the experience of this FFF place as storytelling and creation by the fire in the cave is something that many of us share. It seems that even Haken's site design using the black field of space is on some level a reflection of that idea: the big cave of the hologram. I agree that we affect the whole 'human' creature by what we do here, and I'm always grateful to see so many fine humans treat this as their home. I've enjoyed watching the site shift focus several times since I started posting in October (gosh, only October, I feel like I've been here much longer) and in some of the recent focus on getting to know each other I've noticed a new level of open hearted communication and a calm courage. Yay us, growing.

"Then Ulmo answered: "Truly, water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain." -Tolkien

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