Am I the only one who doesn't actually like Buffy? by Quixotic

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Am I the only one who doesn't actually like Buffy?

POSTED BY: QUIXOTIC
UPDATED: Thursday, January 19, 2006 19:05
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8586
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:57 PM

There. I admit it. The topic says it all.

It's possible that the three or four episodes I caught were simply abberations, but I found the whole thing a bit silly, if not patronizing. The episode with the beer that "de-evolves" people springs to mind.

This is why I'm glad that Joss kept a tight rein on Firefly. There are no bad episodes, just some which aren't as great as the great episodes.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:02 PM

NDRAGE85

I unfortunately never got a chance to watch it, literally. So i can't exactly comment. I didn't have the channel until after the show was done. I'd love to watch the DVDs though, but I really can't afford them at the moment.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:06 PM

SPACEMANSPIFF

The show definitly dipped after it switched networks, but it was still a great show. Worse than fantastic can still be great.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:10 PM

SERGEANTX

Ah.... yup, that's the way I used to think of Buffy. I'm not much into vampires or horror, and being a 41 year old male, didn't exactly relate to the troubles of a teenage girl. Not to mention I find SMG pretty annnoying and not the greatest actress around. With all that going against it, Buffy was a hard sell for me, even after I discovered the wonders of Firefly.

But a fellow Browncoat insisted so I forced myself to sit through four consecutive episodes from the third season. By the fourth episode I was hooked, hard. The thing is, much like Firefly, Buffy is about the characters. It's about family, and love and struggle and all the things you don't generally associate with vampire-slayin'.

Next time you get a chance, sit down to three or four episodes. Back to back if you can manage it. As you watch, look for what the monsters symbolize. There's a lot more going on than you're likely to notice if you're not looking for it, but Joss isn't particularly subtle in this and it's such an eye-opener once you see it. This isn't a show about killing vampires.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:12 PM

STAKETHELURK

If that's the limit of your experience, you probably did just get the aberrations. "Beer Bad" is widely considered one of the worst episodes of the series (though it does have some supporters).

It is entirely possible that "Buffy" just isn't your kind of juggle-ble gosling, but I recommend having a second go. The first season has its merits, but is definitely weaker than the rest of the series, so if you're interested but waffling, rent or buy the second season, where the show really starts to hit its stride, and watch the *whole* thing. Once you're done, you'll be able to tell whether it's really your thing or not.

And as for "Firefly," some would argue that "Heart of Gold" was actually something of a bad episode. And if "Firefly" had gone on for many seasons, as it should have, we would have occasionally been saddled with a clunker--it's the nature of the business.

Still, I really recommend you give the Buffster another shot. If it doesn't work out for you, I see nothing wrong with that... But then you have to try out "Angel."

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I'm less learned in the Buffy 'verse than I am of Angel, but I know of what you speak. There certainly are moments, even characters which I enjoy from Buffy, but overall, the story just never has captivated me like Angel, and certainly not Firefly.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:47 PM

DAX82

I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:47 PM

DAX82

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:03 PM

CYBERSNARK

As someone on the BtVS newsgroup once noted: a bad Joss show is still orders of magnitude better than anything else on TV. It's all relative.

Quote:
Originally posted by StakeTheLurk:
The first season has its merits, but is definitely weaker than the rest of the series,

...

And if "Firefly" had gone on for many seasons, as it should have,

We'd now be talking about how its first season was also not quite up to the current standard. . .

Just reflect on that for a moment.

Shindig, Safe, OMR, Jaynestown, Out of Gas. . . They'd be the weaker episodes.

Damn Fox.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:05 PM

PRINCESSROHANNEN

Quote:
Originally posted by dax82:
I HATE YOU ALL!!!!!!!!

You made my screen go all wide. What in the name of lamb is the problem?

Edited to add: Never mind.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:17 PM

GLOBLABSURDITY

Even though I adore Anne Rice and one of my fav. authors is Laurell K Hamilton--I've found Buffy hard to swallow. However, I've only seen three episodes and have no idea what season they were from. I am going to rent some season episodes from Blockbuster online--with whom I rent my movies and have them sent by mail. What do you guys suggest as to what season to start with? Someone from another Serenity board explained that the first season was not the one to start with, that the second is best to begin with. I don't want to give up yet on Buffy--going to give the show the benefit of the doubt first. What sticks in my mind that really makes Buffy hard to get into for me is the acting is not so effortless as Firefly.

*Never judge a book by it's movie*
*The heart is an artist that paints over what profoundly disturbs it, leaving on the canvas a less dark,less sharp version of the truth*--D.Koontz (Forever Odd)

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:46 PM

DAX82

I understand what the person meant when they said not to start with the first season. Like most shows the first season is simple, but you have to start with it. Theres way too much that happens in the first season to just skip it. If your gonna just move onto the 2nd season I say dont even bother watching it at all. Trust me watch seasons 1-7 in order, youll thank me later.

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Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:53 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
What do you guys suggest as to what season to start with?

If you intend to watch more than one season going in, then start with season one and all of season two before making up your mind.

Season one lays a lot of the groundwork and explanations for the series, but they were still finding their footing in that season and they only really had two good writers, Joss & David Greenwalt. Season one is shorter than all of "Firefly," only twelve eps long. And it does have a lot of good stuff in it, it's just a step down in quality from the rest of the series (which was, IMO, some of the best television ever made, so it's all relative). Basically, I'm saying all this because I don't want you to watch season one, say "This isn't for me," and then stop, because it just gets better and better.

If you're strapped for time/cash, or only want to watch one season before making up your mind, go with Season Two or Season Three. Season Two has a handy recap at the beginning that covers everything that happened in the first season, making it easier to get into. Season two also has some unparalleled emotional highs and great story arcs. However, Joss was not quite done weeding out the good writers from the bad, so there are some rather weak episodes as well.

Season Three, by contrast, is much more uniform in quality, but doesn't quite reach the heights of the best of Season two. It is also somewhat more difficult to get into, with several story lines from season two carrying over and no handy recap to explain things.

...Yeah, in fact, just go with Season two if you're in a rush, I think it just edges out Season three for a first-time viewer.

As for the acting, what can I say? I never had a problem with it; au contraire, I often felt they were kicking it out of the park time and time again in the series best episodes.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 1:56 AM

GLOBLABSURDITY

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I will start with the first season of Buffy. As for the acting--I've only seen the three episodes shown most recently on the FX channel--so perhaps my opinion will change with time and more episodes & an understanding of the essence of the show.
Cheers!

*Never judge a book by it's movie*
*The heart is an artist that paints over what profoundly disturbs it, leaving on the canvas a less dark,less sharp version of the truth*--D.Koontz (Forever Odd)

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:45 AM

J6NGO1977

Don't worry I'm not a Buffy or Angel fan either. I just vision lots of teenage boys and girls having fantasies over Sarah Michelle Geller and David Boreanez who also seems to be the houswives choice. I can't watch Angel for too long because I'm blinded by Cordelias oh so white teeth :D

For vampires and vampire slaying you can't beat Blade.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 3:12 AM

MUIRGHEAL

Umm Yikes with the wide screen!

I LOVED Buffy. Or rather I loved Buffy for a while. I hated Faith. I hate when shows add a character. I really started tuning out when it became "Buffy and Willow: The College Years" because then it became more about their whiny "The world isn't going my way" and less about . .well anything but them whining. I think at some point the show got horribly bogged down with the whole World Ending thing. In the earlier episodes you had Buffy saying "If the world ends, Beep me" and that somewhere turned into "The world is going to end, whats the point of continueing" And the only vampire you ever saw was Spike, who had been totally neutered.

So yea, not so much on the Buffy anymore. I similarly lost interest in Angel when it became the same thing.

This is why I didnt watch Firefly in its original run. I was so turned off by what Buffy and Angel had become and blamed that on the fact Joss has turned over the shows to second rate writers who did not share he talent or vision to go work on some space-opera/western hybrid. I was mad about Buffy so I refused to give Firefly a chance.

Look where being bitter got me:)

Muirgheal
A Shiny Happy Person
"Ain't we just!"

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:18 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by Quixotic:
There. I admit it. The topic says it all.

It's possible that the three or four episodes I caught were simply abberations, but I found the whole thing a bit silly, if not patronizing. The episode with the beer that "de-evolves" people springs to mind.

Oh dear! Its possible you caught the worst ever Buffy episode.

And, you have to take into consideration, when there are 144 episodes of a tv show, its much more likely that there's gonna be some deadwood than if there are 14.

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:27 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

I have tried to watch Buffy...twice. The last time was a few days ago. Reruns during the day. Buffy ended up working at a fast food restaurant. Then there was someone with a monster growing out of her head. It was so stupid.

Sorry, no Buffy fan here.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:33 AM

SPINLAND

You're not alone. I can't stand Buffy or Angel. If it weren't for Firefly I'd have no Joss love at all.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"That's what governments are for, [to] get in a man's way." -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:34 AM

PSOLARIS

You are not alone. I did not ever like Buffy...ever! I tried, I even watched a few episodes...but I hate Sarah Michelle Gellar's acting so much, it got in the way. So I gave up on it. I don't doubt that the story lines were written well, as we all know that Joss is a talented writer, but I just couldn't get past Gellar's acting.

Psolaris

"Ten percent of nuthin' is...let me do the math here...nuthin' into nuthin'...carry the nuthin'"

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:39 AM

TOMSIMPSONAZ

Never seen Buffy or Angel....is it better than watching Firefly over and over again?

:)

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:44 AM

PSYCHICRIVER

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
I have tried to watch Buffy...twice. The last time was a few days ago. Reruns during the day. Buffy ended up working at a fast food restaurant. Then there was someone with a monster growing out of her head. It was so stupid.

Sorry, no Buffy fan here.

OMG. You also caught a crap ep. Okay, people who aren't Buffy fans but are considering trying it out...please turn off the tv if its anything to do with

1. Beer
2. The Doublemeat Palace
3. A swim team and fish monsters
4. Eggs
5. A praying mantis

PsychicRiver

"Two by two, hands of blue."

"We'll take care of each other. I'll knit!"
"I swallowed a bug."

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:55 AM

JOBI

I havent watched the whole series but much like you from the few episodes i have caught it didnt catch or hold my attention and make me want to watch more.

-----
Chuck Norris Doesnt Sleep He Waits

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:15 AM

SAFEAT2ND

Quote:
Originally posted by Psolaris:
You are not alone. I did not ever like Buffy...ever! I tried, I even watched a few episodes...but I hate Sarah Michelle Gellar's acting so much, it got in the way. So I gave up on it. I don't doubt that the story lines were written well, as we all know that Joss is a talented writer, but I just couldn't get past Gellar's acting.

I agree totally!! No Buffy fan here either.
I actually thought the movie was ok, campy B-movie ok.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:31 AM

I like Buffy. Bit nowhere near as much as Angel and Firefly.

I though season 7 was atrocious. Sorry to people who like it, but it was such a bad end to the show. Season 6 was bad enough, at least that had Dark Willow.

I actually like Beer Bad, probably not even in my bottom 20. But it's because I like season 4 a lot more than the others. Not a popular opinion I know, I guess I just like more of a sci-fi element.

And I agree that it was Buffy herself who let the show down for me. Willow, Xander and Giles were all awesome. Oz, Faith, Anya, Tara, they were all great too. But Buffy, she NEVER had a good point in her arguments, just got all whiney and overacted.

They should have left Buffy dead after season 5 and made a 2nd spin off with Willow (not necesarily the main character, just in it for the whole Dark Willow plot). I'd have missed Xander, but lets face it he did bugger all in seasons 6 & 7, and I hate how they broke him up with Anya in what I consider to be the worst Buffy episode (Hells Bells).

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:48 AM

USMC

I tried to watch Buffy when I found out Joss did that too, after watching Firefly of course. I couldnt get into it either, i seen maybe 8-10 episodes, none of em really did anything from me. A little too weird for me.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:29 AM

QUEENOFTHENORTH

I love Buffy. It's a fantastic show. That being said, I've always been really into fantasy and the supernatural, so maybe that made it easy for me. I'm also a girl, so it's easier for me to relate to. And I don't really dislike any episodes of Buffy, although there's obviously some that I won't rewatch as much as others.

Anyways, I suggest to all you "I caught a couple rerun eps on TV, didn't like them" people that you watch the whole season 1 before condemning it entirely. First off, it's hard to get into a show when you don't know all the back story and what the characters mean to one another. Season 1 will help with this. And I guarantee (sp?) that you'll be impressed with season 1's finale, Prophecy Girl. Joss-written and directed, this one always blows my socks off. I think you may even be impressed with SMG's acting. Anyways, give it a good twelve episode try before you totally condemn it. Yes, there's some weak eps, but don't let them stop you.

"I'm having one of those things - a headache with pictures."

"Of course I'm right. And if I'm not, may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

Like books? Go to this thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14862
to find out how to buy mine!

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:41 AM

ZOID

PrincessRohannen:

Umm... You're the one causing the screen to stretch, now. dax82 edited his post and took out most of the exclamation points. Now, you need to go back and edit your post that quotes him, and remove the exclamations from your quote. Then the entire page will 'wrap' normally.

Yes. I dislike both BtVS and AtS. It seems to me to be characters seriously discussing the goings-on of a Holloween party. If there's a message under there somewhere, I can't get to it through the absurdity.

Firefly got absurd or 'clunky' in a couple of eps, too. But the mild subtext of anarchy in the face of total governmental and corporate control was always front and center, if marginally submerged. I think that was one of Firefly's great appeals to fans all over the world. No matter where you live, no matter what party you support, Da Gub'mint just keeps upping the "hearts and minds" control factor. As Mal says in the first half of the first episode intended to be aired: "That's what governments are for. Get in a man's way." IMO, that was the show's mission statement.

And the megacorporations aren't gonna be satisfied until your children are born owing them money. It's called slavery. The goverment gets your heart and mind, the corporations get your "blood, toil, tears and sweat". Someday, I'll get around to writing a thesis arguing that Wash was the embodiment of compliance with governmental/corporate control, and how people who comply with societal rules are not necessarily all bad, oblivious or stupid.

To recapitulate: The message behind Firefly, combined with great characters and writing, made Firefly a superior product to BtVS and AtS combined. But that's to be expected, I think. Joss got older and created an adult show. How many years did it take the Beatles to mature from "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" to "All the Lonely People"?

Reactively,

zoid
_________________________________________________

" A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." -Book, Firefly, "War Stories"

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:14 AM

GEEJAKE

Just 3 months ago I hated BTVS and Angel after catching only a few random episodes of each show...Then a friend gave me BTVS seasons 1 - 4 on dvd to try to force me to watch it..I was unimpressed with the first season (though i agree it should be watched first)but it was clear by the 1st or 2nd episode of season 2 I was hooked...I went and bought BTVS season 5 - 7 and Angel 1-5 on DVD...It was clear to me that Joss was not as sharp at his craft at the beginning of Buffy as he was when he created FF, but I think its easy to see him improve episode to episode... I agree that the show made some questionable storyline and cast moves as it went on but it improved in a lot of ways...When the show started the actors were very young a great deal younger then the FF or Angel casts..As the show went on the actors improved there skills..They became more comfortable with the comedy parts and at the same time the writing(dialog not necessarily story) and directing seemed to be improving..I think that the show became a extremely funny..

If you watched BTVS and FF/Serenity there is no denying that dialog as well as storyline ideas were used in FF/Serenity that were stolen from BTVS(trigger in the brain that is activated by a song is just one example)..

If you give BTVS a chance ( about 1/2 season) i think you will be surprised...

I cant stand the Buffy character in all 7 seasons but still love the show!!

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:25 AM

GLOBLABSURDITY

Quote:
Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion:
I have tried to watch Buffy...twice. The last time was a few days ago. Reruns during the day. Buffy ended up working at a fast food restaurant. Then there was someone with a monster growing out of her head. It was so stupid.

Sorry, no Buffy fan here.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

That's one of the three episodes that I saw recently--Yep, and I didn't get that either. It was the last one that I decided to watch, ever, at the time. However, I'm to understand that Joss didn't have a hand in the writing of that season's episodes--so I'll rent the first season and see if the program was better then. I found the episode in question here to be, uh, ridiculous too. Joss wrote much of the dialogue for the movies 'Speed' and 'Toy Story' and that is what gives me the incentive to give Buffy a try. Of course, I'm looking for the humor element found in those movies and Serenity/Firefly.

*Never judge a book by it's movie*
*The heart is an artist that paints over what profoundly disturbs it, leaving on the canvas a less dark,less sharp version of the truth*--D.Koontz (Forever Odd)

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:52 AM

PRINCESSROHANNEN

Best Buffy episodes:

- Becoming, parts 1 and 2 (but you gotta have a taste of the whole Angel/Buffy storyline to get the real emotional impact of that one)
- Earshot
- Hush
- Once More with Feeling! (the musical episode, heehee)

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:00 AM

LIEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Quixotic:
There. I admit it. The topic says it all.

It's possible that the three or four episodes I caught were simply abberations, but I found the whole thing a bit silly, if not patronizing. The episode with the beer that "de-evolves" people springs to mind.

This is why I'm glad that Joss kept a tight rein on Firefly. There are no bad episodes, just some which aren't as great as the great episodes.

Nope, you are not the only one. My wife is a huge Buffy fan which means we own every season of it and Angel on DVD. I was never taken in by it. It always seemed hokey to me in terms of sci-fi/fantasy. I liked it far better than the original movie, but it was never at the top of my list of TV shows.

______________________________
Douglas Lien
Captain of the Tatsu

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:02 AM

QUIXOTIC

Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:

I agree totally!! No Buffy fan here either.
I actually thought the movie was ok, campy B-movie ok.

Safeat2nd, Chief Handyman of Destiny

I'll admit that I liked the movie, too. I am still amused by the fact that Hilary Swank player one of the cheerleaders.

I've just heard so many stories of people discovering Firefly due to the Joss connection. I'm glad to see that I am not along in being mystified.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:25 AM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
I have tried to watch Buffy...twice. The last time was a few days ago. Reruns during the day. Buffy ended up working at a fast food restaurant. Then there was someone with a monster growing out of her head. It was so stupid.

Although I understand that some people just won't like the show no matter what, I seriously think that maybe as many as half the "Buffy" non-fans in this thread have simply been amazingly unlucky in the episodes they've caught. The thread starter unfortunately saw "Beer Bad," which is largely considered one of the worst episodes of the series (no offense to those who like it, you're the lucky ones).

And now, UnregisteredCompanion, it sounds like you've seen "Doublemeat Palace," which is even worse than "Beer Bad!" Please don't form an opinion based on what is possibly the worst episode of the series. It's true that "Buffy" did have the odd bad ep, but for most of the time it was a truly spectacular show. I urge folks to, if they can, watch the first two seasons (or even just the second season) in sequence to get a better understanding of the show before deciding it's not for them. If you just tune into a random episode (especially if it happens to be a bad one), you'll be like all those viewers on FOX tuning into "The Train Job" and being confused and irritated. "Firefly" deserved to be watched in the proper order, to be given a chance, and so does "Buffy."

If you still don't like it after giving it a proper chance, well, you know the saying about geese and juggling.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:28 AM

NUCLEARDAY

I never really got around to watching much of it: most of the reruns I catch are too far along in the series for me to understand what's going on.

Still, at the very worst I can see how it may have helped hone Whedon's skills. You still have the great mix of drama and humor, for example, and lots of character development. From what I've seen Buffy is pretty complex character after a couple seasons. Also, it was yet another original idea. I'd seen the movie years ago and promptly forgot about it. Never would have seen something like that coming, and I'm sure alot of network execs didn't either. (Just proves what a little faith can get you, just imagine how much money that franchise has made.)

Also, I did catch the "musical" Buffy episode, and lmaoed the whole way through. Massive doses better than the "That 70's Show" go at doing a musical episode.

Browncoats don't die, they just get cancelled.

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Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:05 PM

ANTIHEROHERO

Just as Fox should have aired Firefly episodes in the correct order to give viewers the chance to meet, understand and initiate a bond with the characters, anyone wishing to watch Buffy should start from the beginning.

The first season may be weaker than some of the later ones but it's still better than the vast majority of other cop and hospital shows out there that you might consider watching instead. Plus you miss out on too much if you jump forward to another season. You don't get half the jokes and references and therefore it detracts from the shows impact as a well-constructed whole.

Give it a chance and then definitely watch Angel as well.

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