Joss Whedon's Magic Waning? by serena777

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss Whedon's Magic Waning?

POSTED BY: SERENA777
UPDATED: Monday, February 13, 2006 21:44
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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:36 AM

There is no doubt that JOss Whedon is a master
storyteller - just look at Buffy, Angel and Firefly.

He is a master storyteller when you have TIME
to develop the characters, situations etc.

a 2 hr movie doesn't do his story telling justice

look at the depth of the series vs. the movie

the movie was fast paced and interesting but
it couldn't go into the motivations of the characters doesn't give us time to truly fall in love with them it doesn't answer and q's.

why are they criminals?
HOw did they get together?
Why does he hate the alliance?
and why should we?

we had to draw on the series.

Movies cannot challenge Joss's talent

He will be a good 2 hr storyteller (director)

But he is the master of a 'verse so rich
that it could take 10 years to really
reach a knowledge of it.

movies aren't a true challenge to his talent
and I think he'll find when he can only touch us
every couple of years instead of once a week --that his influence or "magic" will wane

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:46 AM

JENNJ

I agree. I'm an avid fan of both Angel and Buffy along with Firefly. I looked forward to the movie, despite having read the book before going in and hence knowing the ending, but to this day I feel like the movie was missing something. There seemed to be no real character developement or motivation. We got cheated out of alot of that when the show was cancelled and I feel like I was cheated again.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:03 AM

USELESSROCKER

The title of this thread is rather misleading. Whedon had to take NINE characters, each with their own distinct personalities and motivations and put them all together in a two hour movie.

Firefly's story, universe and characters were originally designed for a television series, thus it is completely impossible to have important plot points of character development for each of the nine.

Joss has not lost his magic. With Serenity he was forced to jam a square peg into a round hole, combining two somewhat inherently incompatible mediums, and, frankly, I think he did an admirable job.

How long do you think Serenity would have been if Joss had included some fleshed-out, meaningful character development for each and every member of the crew?

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:21 AM

SERENA777

That's my point -- his kind of meaningful storytelling is lost on the movies.

He did a good job as a director

he does a masterful job at a series.

look at the movie industry lately - not
doing so hot - why choose this venue
when it doesn't frame his talents
properly?

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:30 AM

THEOPERATIVE2005

He picked this venue - motion pictures - because that was where he was going to be able to continue to tell his story.

If he could've he would've kept it on television, but after shopping it around no one wanted to touch it.

Hence, the movie.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:30 AM

THEOPERATIVE2005

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:37 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I disagree about there not being any character development in Serenity. It hasn't the level of development of Firefly but that's because Firefly spanned fourteen episodes.

The comparison doesn't equate.

Give Joss another six films based around Serenity and then see how much character development there would be.

But lets take the pilot episode of Firefly and compare that with Serenity the film. What d'ya reckon?

I'd say it's proportional to the time you're given to tell the story.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:41 AM

LUTHIEN1121

As someone who saw the movie before seeing any series eps, I both agree and disagree with this. I loved the movie. I found the 'verse intrigueing, loved the use of language and the interesting future history, and thought he did a pretty good job of character development for having to cram 9 people into a 2hr movie. The exposition at the beginning with River dreaming at the Academy plus subsequent scenes with the agent and Jayne's comment about how many of Mal's platoon survived the battle were enough to make me not like the Alliance.

Of course, I realized that there was a whole background that I was missing. None of my friends owned the DVDs yet and I was #50 or so on the library hold list (I'd put a hold on it in August when I was #113), so while I wanted to see the series first I didn't have the opportunity.

Anyway, for me as a complete stranger to the 'verse, it was a good hook to see the series!

Adding an afterthought:

there was another challenge as well. How do you tell a story with enough background to hook those like me who'd never seen the series, and yet move the story along enough to keep the interest of those who already *know* the background? I think Joss did a great job on both counts.

We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode!

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:45 AM

DATALESS

I think Serenity is the most amazing piece of story telling. I saw Firefly first on fox. I have TiVo powers so I never missed an episode. I know first hand how amazingly horrible fox failed Firefly. As we all know they aired the episode Serenity last, but it was that moment I really understood what the show could be. The movie isn't the same as the series would have been. I think it would have taken at least 3 seasons to get to the point where the moive ended, but I think it would have happened very much the same. We would have learned more about the Big Damn Heroes but we still have that chance. In novel, comic, and movie form. Personally I welcome the chance to read, see or even write a story as long as I get more Firefly/Serenity. I hope every one who calls them selves a Browncoat would feel the same (I understand if you feel can't write.) This way there will always be something out there that we can call Firefly/Serenity. If you feel like the movie failed you insome way write your own episodes. Create the on going series for all of us to read or see if you can film it. I have to say that would be very cool. If any one does write I would love to read it. Please let us know.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 9:19 AM

KNIBBLET

With apologies to Jayne ... I smell a lot of troll comin off this poster.

She pops up as a member today and both her posts made the hairs on the nape of my neck stand up.

Also see "does joss have the cajones".

Quote:
Originally posted by serena777:
movies aren't a true challenge to his talent
and I think he'll find when he can only touch us
every couple of years instead of once a week --that his influence or "magic" will wane

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/MN-Firefly/ Big Damn Shindigity Good Time
http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:41 AM

THEPISTONENGINE

I disagree with Serena777 emphatically. I believe the movie did an excellent job of characterization. Sure, the particular motives are more understandable if you have seen the series (Which I watched after the movie, by the way), but there is a profound sense of past in the movie. We don't know what that past was, we don't even really know Mal was fighting against the alliance unless you put together three or four clues.

I think I can articulate my point better.

Joss, in the movie, does a superb job of not inserting us into a vacuum. Going into the plot, not just stemming from it (where a lot of movies fall short), all the characters have their own motives, feelings, allegiances, morals, and personal dilemmas. A lot of those characterizations are spelled out better in the series, mostly because we can see the different facets at different angles with each episode, but there was never a sense of lacking in the character. They were developed, the important bits hinted at, and they were exceptional.

The only department I would say the movie falls short of the series... Ok, two departments.
1) I love the episodic nature of series because they allow big events to happen on small scales. If Serenity were a whole season of Firefly, we'd have a whole episode devoted to the freeing of River, then the security payroll job... leaving no ground to go to, etc.
2) (The big one) The series had a profoundly deeper sense of family than the movie. Maybe that's what Serena meant when saying he didn't have time to develop the characters. I think what Serena really is seeing WE didn't have time to see them as family.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:50 AM

JUBELLATE

Its a movie only twice as long as a series show. Very few directors can make a story dense enough that every backstory is given and new developments are all incorporated.

Joss wrote this movie for the fans. He wanted to finish the segment of the story he started. He had two hours to summ up something he could have spread out over an entire season.

In my humblest of opinions, he put forth a brilliant effort and rewarded those fans that had been with him the entire time along with drawing new people into the fold like myself.

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. – H.L. Mencken

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 12:02 PM

MISTERNISHKA

The movie was pretty much the 2nd half of the season he had written only condesed. It close a few chapters on the revers and River for me. It answers a lot of questions.

But we know there are more stories and quests of the gang we haven't heard, thats why the series needs to be brought back!

--------------------------------------------------
"The Hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne!"

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 12:09 PM

THECOLLECTOR

There's a difference of storytelling in a movie. And storytelling in episodic format.

And with saying that... In no way is Joss's talent waning. First off the movie had to go a tad bit "Faster" mind you, because otherwise the movie would've ended up being the two and a half hour mark area easily... most production studios don't really want movies to go over the two hour mark. I mean there are exceptions... but not many.

In TV you can leave loose ends to be tied up later on. You can extend character progression to incredible lenghths. Reason why is that you have as much time as needed to do so as long as you wrap up the general story.

Finally, you also have to take into account of the average movie goer. The people who go to movies just so they can see stuff blow up and go to see awesome graphics. The people who could care less about character progression.

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Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:06 PM

RHYIANAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
I think Serenity is the most amazing piece of story telling. I saw Firefly first on fox. I have TiVo powers so I never missed an episode. I know first hand how amazingly horrible fox failed Firefly. As we all know they aired the episode Serenity last, but it was that moment I really understood what the show could be. The movie isn't the same as the series would have been. I think it would have taken at least 3 seasons to get to the point where the moive ended, but I think it would have happened very much the same. We would have learned more about the Big Damn Heroes but we still have that chance. In novel, comic, and movie form. Personally I welcome the chance to read, see or even write a story as long as I get more Firefly/Serenity. I hope every one who calls them selves a Browncoat would feel the same (I understand if you feel can't write.) This way there will always be something out there that we can call Firefly/Serenity. If you feel like the movie failed you insome way write your own episodes. Create the on going series for all of us to read or see if you can film it. I have to say that would be very cool. If any one does write I would love to read it. Please let us know.

I agree with the wanting to know more, however, I'd rather get the OFFICIAL version of what's going on rather than just anybody's interpretation. Some of that kind of thing can get really mediocre. I don't mean to insult anyone or anything, (It's just my personal opinion) but Joss is the master of firefly/serenity. He's the only one that truly knows where it was supposed to go originally. That's the story I want to hear......However I can get it.

Wash: Yeah, but psychic? That sounds like science fiction.
Zoe: You live on a spaceship, dear.

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Monday, February 13, 2006 9:44 PM

DATALESS

While I agree that Joss is The Master of FF/S, I think the the more we show network or movie execs and Joss that we really want more they will want to make for us. The more we can scare, I mean impress them with our desire to see more in any from the more value there is in FF/S. So do anything to get People to see Firefly and Serenity, like stand out side of Best Buy when the PS3 comes out playing the episodes (even if you don't plan to buy one.)

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