Can you believe this. by Firestalker

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Can you believe this.

POSTED BY: FIRESTALKER
UPDATED: Sunday, March 5, 2006 20:43
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 11495
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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:12 AM

I saw this earlier and I thought I'd bring this to all of your attention. I highlighted the relevant part.

FIREFLY has only been around for a couple of years as a failed TV show on a 4th network, and now it's a failed feature film. It didn't connect or resonate with ANYBODY beyond a very limited (and primarily English-speaking) fanbase. And here's the cruelest cut -- I don't think it will stand the test of time. FIREFLY/SERENITY is too dependent on *other*, more popular creations for its context. It *needs* STAR TREK and STAR WARS to play off of. It's not so much an original creation as a parody/pastiche of more substantial works. Its referential humor and storytelling falls flat otherwise.

That's the problem with parody. It generally fades over time. And FIREFLY ain't none too popular to begin with. Besides, we already have a great star wars parody-Space Balls

-------------------------------------------------
"You know what the definition of a hero is? Someone that gets other people killed."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:15 AM

SERYN

Where did that one come from then?

-------------------------------------------
"She's a mite whimsical in the brainpan."
Xander: "Hi, for those of you who just tuned in, everyone here is a crazy person." *grin*

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:17 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I can only believe it because I already read it on my own. Were it not for that I'd think you made it up for a laugh, or maybe not, but ... still.

The only logical explanation I can come up with is that the post itself was parody, but though that is logical I see it as very unlikely.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:22 AM

FIRESTALKER

I got it from Amazon. I forgot the guys name, but I thought it was interesting to read.

-------------------------------------------------
"You know what the definition of a hero is? Someone that gets other people killed."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:50 AM

CBY

I don't really care what other people think of the show. You can't force them to like it anyway.

°°°°°°°°°°°°
http://www.byond-trax.com - my selfmade ambient/lounge/chillout music
www.botttos.de/mphillips/mphillips_vol1.exe - mphillips 100 in 1 pack Vol.1

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:12 AM

3ELEVEN

The guy is obviously predisposed as a hater as he talks about the show as a failure, blah blah blah. Of course the movie will not connect. The truth is, is that he is probably a very very lonely bitter man sitting in a dark room in his undershorts thinking he is making an impact. Take it with a grain of salt, there are haters for everything and one little shrew won't keep Serenity from flying.

"You can't take the sky from me."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:13 AM

OLDFOGEY

Quote:
Originally posted by Firestalker:
...see subject line Can You Believe This

No. Can't. ...Too much hair.
sorry, couldn't stop that 3rd bit from
getting out. What I meant was, No. Can't.
Where do those moonbrains come from anyway?
(My sisters are moonbrains but I forgive them.
Sometimes I'm not real sure where they came from
either.)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:29 AM

MILFORD

Wow, this person has come to the astounding conclusion that (gasp) people use things that have gone before them as springboards ofr understanding and creating new things. Goodness. I imigine that review was posted from some uber-secret government think tank. And by unber-secret government think tank I mean the breakroom at Taco Casa.

It's especially silly when you consider that Lucas himself admits to ripping off doezens of Ideas. Silly man.

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 9:31 AM

ETHAN

What's funny is how this guy thinks the concepts and plot of Serenity are so complex and special that only reference to Star Wars and Star Trek is going to make them meaningful...or that Star Wars and Star Trek uniquely made their themes intelligible in the first place.

(I'm afraid our messsage board isn't going to last...owing we have to constantly refer back to the English language)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:00 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by ethan:
(I'm afraid our messsage board isn't going to last...owing we have to constantly refer back to the English language)

Perhaps we could use grunts and hand signals, provided that not one of them refered to one that came before.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:08 AM

SMOOF

It looks like people should just stop making Sci-Fi, considering Star Trek and Star Wars have already done everything, right?

Ships in space, LOOK, FIREFLY TOTALLY RIPPED THAT OFF!
ZOMG! PEOPLE TOO! RIP-OFF!
STAR?! WTF?! HOW COULD THEY BLATENTLY RIP OFF STAR WARS LIKE THAT?!

I can understand people not liking it, but claiming it's a ripoff is such a copout. Not to mention, where do they get off about the storytelling? I find the storytelling in FF to be phenominal. Firefly is about character development, not big explosions to keep the masses enthralled.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:30 AM

11THHOUR

Wow. I haven't seen that kind of shallow, angry and ignorant commentary on Firefly since 2002... when the herds of wailing, whining Dark Angel fanboys were trolling the boards.

That review is missing the crucial sign-off:

"My head hurts."

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 10:51 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
Wow. I haven't seen that kind of shallow, angry and ignorant commentary on Firefly since 2002... when the herds of wailing, whining Dark Angel fanboys were trolling the boards.

That review is missing the crucial sign-off:

"My head hurts."

I don't remember that. I've been here since then, but to be honest I didn't read as many posts until I registered in Jan '03.

You know every so often I would wonder when I actually registered and for some reason it never occurred to me to actually check. So now I know, I joined on Friday.

-

For the record, what little Dark Angel I saw I liked. Doesn't mean it was good, didn't see enough to tell whether it was good or not, but no matter what more people liked it than the herds of wailing, whining fanboys.

I'm not saying you were claiming anything negative about fans in general or the show though, just saying.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 5:12 PM

KIZYR

Parody? How in the sam hell is Firefly or Serenity a parody of anything? Witty dialogue, yes, but I fail to see where the satire is. Maybe he was confused with Spaceballs?

But yes, some folks are predisposed to disliking every single bit of original science fiction, so they have to claim it's a knock-off of whatever their favorite series / movie is.

I wonder if he gets all bent up if someone says that Star Wars is a 'ripoff' of Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress? KF

~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:07 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Isn't Star Wars a ripoff of 2001: A Space Odyssey? Which in turn was a ripoff of Jules Verne's From The Earth To The Moon, since they all... y'know... used ships that flew in space and all, and went places and did things. And Vader's blank-yet-malevolent gaze is eerily reminiscent of the HAL 9000... (But HAL was the better actor)

Really, I'm just kiddin' around. Just pointing out that, at the bottom of things, just about EVERYTHING is a ripoff of something. It's how things grow and expand - by referencing earlier works.

Star Wars was *okay*. I mean the three original ones were. Great effects, cool ideas, interesting overall story, but let's face it, cardboard cutouts could have done a better acting job in those movies than some of the "actors" Lucas used (I credit him with part of that. "Okay, let's try it again, but with a little less feeling. Visualize yourself as a soap dish. Okay, ACTION!"). Ditto for Star Trek. In its original iteration, it was cute, as a kind of campy send-up in the vein of the old Batman show. All they needed was "BIFF!" and "ZOWIE!" graphics for the fight scenes. There were some good story ideas in both, but neither of those franchises exactly broke the mold when it came to writing and developing characters.

Don't start bashing me on the SW and ST stuff; I'm just playin'. I liked 'em both, watched them semi-religiously, and I'm old enough to have watched the original Star Trek series in primetime when it was new.

I'm changing my sig just for this in-the-dark (literally AND figuratively speaking) nerd.

Mike

"Kaylee, find that Amazon geek that's taking a dirt nap with baby Jesus; we need a hood ornament."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:40 PM

MICKEY6

Well, it's all about the averages, you know. 49% of the population has to be below average intelligence....

.....
It takes a village to raise a child, and an army to raze a village.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:39 PM

KAELE

For some strange reason, I've been finding these past few weeks that Firefly and Serenity have people on one pole or the other. They either love it or hate it.

IMDB boards are infested with people who are only looking to bash the movie and show.

I could really care less. I love it and that's what's important. And for once, this community of people actually DO NOT rise to the bait and blast back, like so many others I've seen. It shows a maturity and poise that not many fans have. I'm proud to say I'm a Browncoat.

From no other show can we get such awesome quotes.

"See how I'm not punching him? I think I've grown."

Kaele
(pronounced 'kale', not like kaylee)
AIM - Dewlanna
YID - jedi_kaele

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 2:19 PM

GIXXER

No. They either love it or they're wrong.

Reviewer is clearly East Ham to pick Spaceballs as a good spoof. Totally eclipsed by Galaxy Quest.

G

Deeply satisfying is whipping out the calculator on Amazon's Firefly customer reviews. 5Stars/Total runs out at getting on for 94%

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:00 PM

KIZYR

Quote:
Originally posted by Gixxer:
Reviewer is clearly East Ham to pick Spaceballs as a good spoof. Totally eclipsed by Galaxy Quest.

Oh yeah... Spaceballs was way too direct and 'literal' as a parody (one-to-one for every single character? blah). Galaxy Quest spoofed the entire Sci-Fi culture, and was brilliant at it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaele:
IMDB boards are infested with people who are only looking to bash the movie and show.

IMDB boards (and many others) have plenty of folks who are looking to bash every movie and show. The more fervent praise, the more fervent bashing.

And usually when someone claims such-and-such show is a 'ripoff' means that they're plumb out of arguments. KF

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:03 PM

LUVMYVERA

I'm just waiting for the day when Firefly is popular enough to get a parody of its own.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:26 PM

ARCADIA

Hmm... well, the only thing that shǎ zi got right was that Firefly/Serenity isn't too popular. I would hardly consider it a parody.

Will it stand the test of time? Well... it might not. But, I ask you to consider Dante. He wrote his master work in the 1300s but it was neither critically acclaim nor remotely popular until the romantic era in the 1800s, about five hundred years later. Now it is a classic. See, cynical reviewer? Things change. :-)

Also, it is worth noting the western lit (and now, media arts -- they are literature in their own way, says I) is nothing but one generation responding to the generation before it. You can trace it all the way back to the Greeks. From Socretes to Plato to Aristotle to Dante to Shakespeare to Jane Austen... this is how literature of the west works. It's pretty cool that way. Almost anything anyone ever says is a response to something that happened before it.

So, yeah. I don't necessarily disagree with the poster when he says that Firefly/Serenity will not stand the test of time. I have my fears (and hopes). I just think his/her reasons for saying it won't are bullshit. Firefly has as good a chance of withstanding the test of time as anything. So, stay shiny, firefly/serenity. Keep flyin.

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:50 PM

MALBABE

on that reviewer.

I am a HUGE sci-fi nerd. I love Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica (new & old), Firefly/Serenity. You name it, I bet I love it. That said:

I think Firefly is as unique and original as is possible to be millions of years after the big-bang! Star Trek tried to be "space-going wagon train western", hello! Trench coat and six-gun, how much more western can you get?

Firefly has it all over, story, dialog, originality. I don't watch it for the FX, that's just a bonus when it's there!

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 3:32 AM

HALFBREEDINKC

THe thing about Firefly/Serenity is the ORIGINALITY! Oops! Can I say that since this amazon geek said it was ripping off Star Wars/Star Trek? Oh well I guess I did...

Here's my take on it (uh-oh - look out). Star Trek = Utopian vision of a future that AIN'T gonna happen (not unless the human race evolves into something else...and then guess what? It ain't the human race no more). Star Wars = Great retelling of the whole Aurthurian/Sword in the Stone legends, and don't get me wrong I loved it growing up, BUT I thought the acting was more than a little, shall we say, cardboard? And yes I do mean ALL of the movies (ducking for cover at that one), and all six of the movies were overshadowed by the effects. Battlestar = the old series was a lot of fun, the new one is darker and somewhat more "realistic", and yet they seem to carry the dark side of the human pysche to an extreme some times.

Now we come to Firefly/Serenity - a show that was, dare I say it?, STORY/CHARACTER driven - was that because they didn't have the budget for more special effects? Don't know and don't care 'bout the reason. All I know is that it WORKED. The characters in the show were some of the most real I've seen in a long time (for a science fiction show). Just a bunch of people, trying to make their way ON THEIR OWN, without interference from some government entity.

Can you imagine a character like Kirk or Yoda, going "okay, that's the way you want it" and then booting the bad guy through the engine? Ain't gonna happen! I've been around a few years, seen a lot of things in life, and I've yet to meet any of these "saintly" types that we see in all the aforementioned shows - mostly I've seen folk like those in our beloved Firefly. Frail, flawed, and in general - human!

I know this is gonna sound a little weird but, the crew of Serenity remind me, more than anything, of a group of bikers. I've met a few hardcore bikers in my life, and when it comes down to it they're decent folk, even if they look a little different. They're just folk who want to be left alone, go their own way, won't bother nobody until somebody bothers them first. They're a very protective bunch, of their own, that is, and wary of outsiders.........hmmmmm, this sounds awful familiar-like here don't it?

I think the haters have a fundamental problem which is this; They want to see something bigger than themselves, something that says the human race has grown, matured (and that's fine - personally I just don't think that's gonna happen), they don't want to see something that depicts us 500 years in the future just like we are now - squabbling, struggling, mundane, winning and losing, in essence just like we are today - again, in a word, just folk.

Now how much more original can you get than that?

I know this is long but I wanted to get it out before I forgot most of it (that happens when you get older...LMAO). So I'll get off my soapbox and come back to reality and..........oh yeah, go to work.

HalfBreedinKC

"We meddle. People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run don't walk we're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome" - River

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 4:22 AM

EST120

oops.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 4:35 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by CBY:
I don't really care what other people think of the show. You can't force them to like it anyway.

I agree with CBY. There are always going to be people who do not like the same things you do. There are lots of shows and movies that I do not like that other people love to death. People have their opinions and they are free to say what they want. Heck, people here argue all the time about which episodes are good and which are bad. Personal taste.

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 9:14 AM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I don't remember that. I've been here since then, but to be honest I didn't read as many posts until I registered in Jan '03.

The biggest fallout of angry Dark Angel fans occurred when Firefly premiered, and kept going fairly strong for a while afterward. Near the end of Firefly's run the furor had died down a lot, but there were still plenty of angry fanboys who gleefully jumped in and cheered the demise of our shiny show.

They wanted to find a target to vent their rage against the cancellation of Dark Angel. Since Firefly inherited the timeslot, that was reason enough for them.

You may not have seen these posts because the majority of the D.A. trolls showed up on the original official FOX message board, since that's where they hung out anyway because of Dark Angel. Made it convenient for them to jump to the Firefly section and have tantrums.

I can understand being disappointed when a favorite show is cancelled. But the way they behaved to the FF fans, plus the petulant and immature bashing they gave Firefly, was extremely annoying and disruptive.

Quote:
For the record, what little Dark Angel I saw I liked. Doesn't mean it was good, didn't see enough to tell whether it was good or not, but no matter what more people liked it than the herds of wailing, whining fanboys.

I'm not saying you were claiming anything negative about fans in general or the show though, just saying.

I wasn't dissing that show or the fans in general. Just the rather vocal minority of wailing, whining fanboys who vomited their childish rage on Firefly and the fans on the forum.

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Thursday, February 9, 2006 10:45 AM

GRIZWALD

In English Comp 101 I learned that there are really only about 6 plots in literature throughout the ages. All stories are mere variations on those 6 plots.

Small wonder there are bound to be similarities between tales.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 8:55 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
I wasn't dissing that show or the fans in general. Just the rather vocal minority of wailing, whining fanboys who vomited their childish rage on Firefly and the fans on the forum.

Just wanted to make sure you made the distinction.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 9:09 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by grizwald:
In English Comp 101 I learned that there are really only about 6 plots in literature throughout the ages. All stories are mere variations on those 6 plots.

Small wonder there are bound to be similarities between tales.

Care to share what the six are?

I've heard three:
1Boy meets girl.
(Common variations: Girl meets boy, Girl meets Girl, Boy meets boy, boy/girl/thing fails to meet boy/girl/thing, boy meets two girls, girl meets boy who already met a boy ...)

2 The humble tailor. (Little guy does great things.)
(Common variations: Little guy fails to do great things, inverse [great guy isn't so great], people strive for greatness and drop like a rock ...)

3 The man who learned better.
(Common variations: the guy learns worse, in spite of character shaping events the character remains the same [twit], character's mind is changed and then changed back, ideals/knowledge/preconceptions are tested and affirmed.

Mal-Inara, Mal-Nandi, and Simon-Kaylee are all boy meets girl plots, though it could be argued quite well that the second two should be considered girl meets boy by the nitpicky.

More or less all of Firefly and Serenity is humble tailor, and all of the characters have a bit of learning better arcs as well.

-

What some people fail to understand is that life is in the details. The story of a boy being thrust into greatness and being pressured by parent and teacher alike yet still managing to rise higher is a well known and cliché tale. However few people mistake, "Searching for Bobby Fisher," with the story of Alexander the Great.

Similarly I'd hardly call Ocean's 11 and CSI carbon copies just because they have the same setting.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 9:42 AM

TAYEATRA

I haven't got anything meaningful to add to this discussion but I couldn't not comment because reading the original post was somewhat akin to a punch in the gut.

It has to be said however that where firefly differs from the Star Trek/Wars and other Sci-Fi shows is that it always seemed to care more about characters and writing than special effects and future of humanity.

Everything profound that was said in Firefly through the plots and writing applied much more to the Present than any idealistic views. People keep flying/fighting/living because in the end it's all they can do. It may sound kind of morbid but it's true.

The closest plot link that I could find to justify the original posted comment was that the Firefly was set in a 'verse where the political rulers were on the opposing side (bigger, stronger, meaner), in the same way as the Empire vs Jedi in Star Wars. Though I can't find a Reaver equivalent in either Trek or Wars and i'm definitely not seeing a Blue Sun similarity.

In the end it's the way Serenity and Firefly were brought together. They're our Big Damn Heroes and it's our Big Damn Movie, we're not making people watch and we can't stop them ranting but we can Keep Flying and hopefully it's enough.

Taya

Dark Angel, Firefly, Buffy, Angel, Enterprise, Farscape... anything else you'd like to cancel?

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Friday, February 10, 2006 5:42 PM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Just wanted to make sure you made the distinction.

You wanted to make sure I made the distinction.

My post described a particular point in time, and I used the word "trolling". I thought that I was fairly obviously describing that vocal and annoying division of fans we refer to as "trolls".

The distinction was already implied.

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Friday, February 10, 2006 6:02 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

11thHour,

With no tone of voice to go on I’m forced to guess the feeling behind the words. Seemed snappy to me.

Quote:
The distinction was already implied.

The statement:
"All Dark Angel fans are trolls and some were here at a given time."
is only one word off from:
"Some Dark Angel fans are trolls and some were here at a given time."

You said "THE herds of ..." how was I supposed to know which quantifier you meant?

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Friday, February 10, 2006 6:10 PM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.

Quote:
Originally posted by Firestalker:
It *needs* STAR TREK and STAR WARS to play off of. It's not so much an original creation as a parody/pastiche of more substantial works. Its referential humor and storytelling falls flat otherwise.

Firestalker -- Interesting reading, thanks. Unfortunately, I can believe it.

Huh. Why haven't I been this obsessed about any show/movie, ever, in my 44 years? In my opinion, it is because Joss got it right. Tragic that it is merely parody/pastiche. Oh, the irony.

--Karel.

"Wonderous is our great blue ship that sails around the mighty sun and joy to everyone that rides along." -- Jeff Lynne, Electric Light Orchestra.

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Friday, February 10, 2006 9:20 PM

RCAT

What was it Joss said he wanted to name the BDM? Something like "Bang Boobie Explosion". I think this reviewer may have had more interest if that name had been used.

The the basic story plots (which could be combined in various ways)I remember from school are:
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Nature
Man vs. Self
Perhaps that was just in regard to conflict.

"Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other significant looks and laughing incessantly."
-Wash

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:05 AM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
The statement:
"All Dark Angel fans are trolls and some were here at a given time."
is only one word off from:
"Some Dark Angel fans are trolls and some were here at a given time."

First of all, the two different "quotes" you provided are irrelevant because they have nothing to do with what I said. Clarification can only be achieved if you stay with the words I actually used instead of composing your own quotes.

Quote:
You said "THE herds of ..." how was I supposed to know which quantifier you meant?

Here's my original post:

>>>Wow. I haven't seen that kind of shallow, angry and ignorant commentary on Firefly since 2002... when the herds of wailing, whining Dark Angel fanboys were trolling the boards.

That review is missing the crucial sign-off:

"My head hurts."<<<

"The herds of... " is referring to the rather large quantity of D.A. fanboys who were bombarding the message board back then. No where did I make the statement that all Dark Angel fans were trolls. But the ones showing up on our board were trolling.

You weren't around when it happened, you said as much yourself. I made a short post that folks who remembered the trolls might find mildly amusing in a "strolling down troll memory lane" kinda way. I guess it's one of those "you had to be there" things.

It was a joke. There's no need to take it so seriously.

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:15 AM

ZOID

Howdy, all!

I've got a little question for everyone, the possible response to which I find intriguing:

Have you ever hated something so much that you actually hunted it down all across the web just in order to bash it?

My answer: Hell no. If I dislike something, I just ignore it to the greatest extent possible. Maybe I'm shirking my responsibility to the human race by not passing my unquestionable wisdom and discernment along to my fellows; but, I reckon I'm not really that smart, that witty, that much more a connoisseur of the arts, and that my opinions need to be broadcast to every other human. Even dumbasses are entitled to the things they like, free from stuffy know-it-alls telling them their favorite bits of entertainment are fluffy pieces of poo.

I do, however, feel moved to tell people about the things I love. And if someone gets on this board and says that Star Wars or Star Trek were/are better than Firefly/Serenity, I feel okay telling them that their head is an overstuffed sack of manure.

But, I don't go to SW or ST websites and pick a fight. I have never gone to IMDB and entered a negative review of any film, regardless how bad it was or how repeatedly its director/producer 'raped my childhood'.

So what about y'all? Ever specifically seek something out just to give it a tarring?

That's what intrigues me about guys like the IMDB poster (and the trolls around here, regardless their feelings about DA). What motivated him to spend his time, and make the hamster in his head run faster in its little cage, just to say something negative? Seems like a complete and utter waste of effort, to me.

Inquisitively,

zoid

P.S.
So, 'man v. man', 'man v. nature', and 'man v. self', would yield a total of 6 distinct 'protagonist v. antagonist' themes when adding, 'woman v. man', 'woman v. nature', and 'woman v. self'. But then you'd have to add a seventh, most-bloody theme: 'woman v. woman'. Have you ever seen a sales event in the ladies footware department at Sears? *shudders* Oh, the carnage... Reminiscent of River v. Reavers: I often wonder if there were shoes involved. "What are your thoughts, Hobson?"

P.P.S.
Oops! And an eighth distinct theme: 'man v. woman'. Perhaps the funniest, although the man is invariably doomed... Think, "Intolerable Cruelty" or "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" (at the end of which Pitt holds up both hands, fingers splayed, and silently mouths the word, "Ten"; looks like 'I surrender' and 'down for the count', to zoid).
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:29 AM

JOLLY

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:

That's what intrigues me about guys like the IMDB poster (and the trolls around here, regardless their feelings about DA). What motivated him to spend his time, and make the hamster in his head run faster in its little cage, just to say something negative? Seems like a complete and utter waste of effort, to me.

I don't have a problem with someone that regularly writes movies reviews on IMDB, Metacritic, or a personal blog writing negative review about movies she doesn't like. Part of the fun of pop culture is being able to comment on it, and that includes trashing things that you don't like. And negative commentary can be useful to others with similar tastes to the critic, in so far as it keeps them from wasting money on products they won't enjoy. What I don't understand is the people that hang around in the discussion boards to trash the movie. It's one thing to write a review and then move on to the next movie, and quite another to hang around and pick fights. There is little sport to the kind of sparring that seems to go on.

I do think we tend to be overly sensitive to negative commentary that occurs outside of the fan-based boards, and that part of that sensitively is driven by the notion that we need to market the product to insure sufficient commercial success to get either a sequel or another series. The DVD sales are holding, which will eventually show that Serenity was a success. However, I suspect that it would be a lot easier to ignore wankers if the movie had gone on to take $80M in box office receipts during the original release, or if a subsequent project had already been announced.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:09 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by 11thHour:
It was a joke. There's no need to take it so seriously.

Then why are you?

Quote:
First of all, the two different "quotes" you provided are irrelevant because they have nothing to do with what I said. Clarification can only be achieved if you stay with the words I actually used instead of composing your own quotes.

You're telling me that introducing those two outside examples didn't bring clarification to the ambiguity involved?

I've been under the impression for all of my life, apparently incorrectly, that showing examples was helpful.

Quote:
"The herds of... " is referring to the rather large quantity of D.A. fanboys who were bombarding the message board back then.

Obviously, but that hardly tells whether you claim it is a representive group or not.

Quote:
No where did I make the statement that all Dark Angel fans were trolls.

I said you did not say that so I fail to see why you are pointing it out, but if it helps I will again acknowledge that you didn't say that.

Quote:
But the ones showing up on our board were trolling.

Again, obviously.

I still fail to see why you're making a big deal out of it, you said something that could clearly be interpreted in at least five different ways because of your word choice. I wanted to make sure that you did not mean for it to be a particular one of those ways, and then, after stating you didn't mean it that way, you got pissed off.

-

Like you said, "It was a joke. There's no need to take it so seriously," so stop taking it so seriously.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:33 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Rcat:
The the basic story plots (which could be combined in various ways)I remember from school are:
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Nature
Man vs. Self
Perhaps that was just in regard to conflict.

Those are conflicts.

(Should be noted that “Man” is not only a unisex term but could also be applied to things like dogs and aliens.)

If memory serves there are a couple more, with a complete list like this:
Man vs. Self
Man vs. Man
Man vs. Society
Man vs. Nature
Man vs. God

Only adds up to five though.

Anyway the conflicts and the plots can be combined in many different ways, for example the classic tale of a severely depressed unpopular teen with no self-confidence ending up with the popular girl and self-esteem has a decent mix.

It has all three plots
boy meets girl, obviously
humble tailor in that he manages to rise above his station in life to date the popular girl
Learns better in that in the course of the story he learns he is good for something

For conflicts it has three
Man vs. Self - overcoming the depression and low self confidence
Man vs. Man - him vs. any rivals in love or life he might have
Man vs. Society - him vs. the entire social structure that says he, as an unpopualar kid, can and can't do

Perhaps the reason that this tired old story takes place on camping trips often enough is so they can work in:
Man vs. Nature, and
Man vs. God

And thus have everything that could be in the story in the story.

-
When it comes to originality Sun Tuz has this to say in, The Art of War:

There are not more than five musical notes, yet the combinations of these five give rise to more melodies than can ever be heard.

There are not more than five primary colors (blue, yellow, red, white, and black), yet in combination they produce more hues than can ever been seen.

There are not more than five cardinal tastes (sour, acrid, salt, sweet, bitter), yet combinations of them yield more flavors than can ever be tasted.

In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack--the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 10:02 AM

FLAUTISTFIRST

I think one of the reasons for Firefly/Serenity's lack of super big success is that it is too smart for the room, so to speak. Perhaps if the dialogue were stiffer or the actors made to be flatter in presentation more would like it because it would be easier to "get."

I mean name one other movie/series that actually uses the word "laconic" in an ironic way.

The vocabulary, the dialogue, the character development,the humor--all of that is what attracted me to the show. I think I was hooked in the first 5 minutes, just a few short weeks ago. Now I've made purchases, am posting on websites,and cannot get enough.

No, I've never, ever, had this kind of reaction to film/tv. Books yes. Music yes.

Is Firefly/Serenity a bad ripoff? I don't think so. And I'm glad to have found it. Better late than never.

Oh...I never purchased anything SW or ST related.

New to the board--

"Any friend of Inara's is a strictly businesslike relationship to me."

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:29 AM

11THHOUR

You're absolutely correct. The way I stated my first post was ambiguous, inflammatory, and an insult to the general Dark Angel fan community.

What I really meant to say was that Dark Angel fans are cute, cuddly, and not at all filled with bits of string or recycled stryrofoam fast food containers.

My first post was written under the grievous influence of eating way too many turnips. At this point I can only claim the turnip defense, and swear to lay off of that devil root for the rest of my born days.

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:40 AM

SOLDIER0CROSS

Has anybody noitced that so many other sci fi shows have star in their name ans firefly does not.

Stargate
Star wars
Straw Trek
Battle Star... and so on
prolly more

*insert firefly here*

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:52 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

See, you're so much more fun when you aren't remotely serious.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 11:59 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

A new person, there do seem to be a lot of you lately.

Welcome here, we're weird.

If you have not figured this out yet it is time you know: If you want more get more people interested so that they buy the DVDs and spread the word themselves.

Other than that you'll find us a pleaant bunch and fit right in. The fact you feel the way you do about the show, and sought us out as a result makes you family.

Welcome home.

-

We can't get enough either.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:46 PM

CYBERSNARK

As one of the board's token Dark Angel fans (where is Chrisisall lately?), I'd just like to point out that we're not all evil lecherous humps.

Quote:
Originally written by Sun Tzu:
There are not more than five musical notes,

Actually, there are eight. But then I wouldn't expect Mozart to know advanced destabilization/psyche warfare tactics either.

(Anybody else know that little ditty about Beethoven? All he had was eight little notes, just eight little notes like this. . .)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:56 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
As one of the board's token Dark Angel fans (where is Chrisisall lately?), I'd just like to point out that we're not all evil lecherous humps.

I just got my head bitten off for doing that and I'm not even one of you.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally written by Sun Tzu:
There are not more than five musical notes,
Actually, there are eight. But then I wouldn't expect Mozart to know advanced destabilization/psyche warfare tactics either.

Actually in the western system there are 12
01 A
02 A Sharp/B Flat
03 B
04 C
05 C Sharp/D Flat
06 D
07 D Sharp/E Flat
08 E
09 F
10 F Sharp/G Flat
11 G
12 G Sharp/A Flat

Other systems have quarter and other assorted microtones.

No idea which five Sun Tzu was talking about though. All I know is it was part of the quote.

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 5:53 PM

FLAUTISTFIRST

"Welcome here, we're weird." by another poster.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been repeatedly assured throughout my life that I am indeed weird. I should fit right in.

And believe me, I'm telling all 5 of my friends to get Serenity and Firefly. Just ask them.

And I still intend to purchase more. I just need to do it on the sly so that my husband doesn't start suspecting a renewed need for anti-psychotics.

Not that he isn't already award of my tendencies toward the weird side.

It's been fun reading here. Now to figure out how to actually post. ;}

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:12 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

With today's tv shows, movies, and books, you can find parallels everywhere.

Star Wars took a lot of ideas from Jack Kirby's Fourth World. Jedis/Sith = New Gods, the Jedi and Sith get their power from their connection to the Force, the New Gods evovled to perfection because of their close connection to the Source, they also get their power from the Source. Vader/Emperor = Darkseid, evil despot bent on total domination of the universe, Darkseid has his Anti-Life Equation, Vader has the Death Star. Yoda = Highfather, wise old dude who was once a powerful warrior, tired of the ways of war, retired to teach the young. Luke = Orion, raised away from evil father by good people, predestined to defeat father. Force = Source, basically the same thing.

If you look at the new enemy in Stargate, the Ori, you can find a lot of similarities with the Guardians of the Universe which are also from the DC universe. Both the Ori and the Guardians are ancients. The Ori and Ancients split into two races long ago, the Guardians and Controllers split into two races long ago. The Ori feed off of the willpower of their followers, the Central Battery on Oa is powered by the willpower of every individual in the universe. The Priors and Green Lanterns have similar powers. You can also find a lot of similarities between the Ancients in Stargate and the Ancients in the Might and Magic series. The Ancients in Might and Magic series were an advanced civilization that evolved long ago, they seeded the universe, they put "Celestial Gates" on planets all over the universe that can transport people instantaneously between them, there's Ancient technology hidden all over the universe, and they were defeated by a race of devils known as the Kreegans who triumphed through sheer number.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:28 PM

SHADOWCHILD

Interesting? INTERESTING?? This is an INSULT!!! Whoever cant connect to this movie cant connect to LIFE. Because thats what they made it about. Real life problems, tensions...And you got to admit its FUNNY!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"You are such a boob."

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Sunday, March 5, 2006 6:30 PM

MICKEY6

Better a month late than never, right?

The Chinese are very much into the number 5: five primary colors, five cardinal tastes, five directions (the usual, plus center), five elements, and, yes, five musical notes. It's an entirely different scale than what's used in the West.

-Spreading trivia to the uncaring masses since...well, since birth really.-

.....
It takes a village to raise a child, and an army to raze a village.

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