Star Trek as a Firefly replacement. by RyanW2050

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Star Trek as a Firefly replacement.

POSTED BY: RYANW2050
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9218
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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:44 AM

RYANW2050

I tried it.

I thought, "Hey, people liked that show, it's kinda the same type, Maybe i'll like it as much as firefly!"

Well, it turns out that adventures in morale and good deeds are just nowhere near as interesting or fun as adventures in thievery and whores!

Also, that "Lady who always tells picard that he's fucking up" gets on my nerves.

Where are you, Firefly.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 2:51 AM

JOSSISAGOD

I agree, Star Trek has it's own place in my head, but Firefly has a place in my heart as well as my head. Firefly was a much more interesting story.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:45 AM

GAMMARAYGIRL

I've seen far more episodes of the Next Generation Star Trek than I'd like to admit. It's very nice, but it didn't grab me the way Firefly did. I think the Firefly characters are more interesting, as is the storyline.

Also, I liked Patrick Stewart and how he portrayed Jean-Luc, but, wow, Nathan Fillion as Captain Reynolds- and I'm thinking about the opening of Trash right now- there's just no comparison.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 3:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Also, that "Lady who always tells picard that he's fucking up" gets on my nerves.

Which one? The ship's counselor or the ship's doctor ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, February 24, 2006 6:05 AM

AZBROWNCOAT

I used to like Star Trek, but I must say that after having watched Firefly, I cannot go back. Firefly is actually what everyone says. The whole thing feels like it is a place people live and die. It has a humanity to it that Star Trek does not. And the characters are real characters who act like people do, especially Jayne. And Wash. Well, and all of them. They have human nuances, not Vulcan prudishness.

You know, they tell ya to never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is, on occasion, hilarious.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 6:05 AM

AZBROWNCOAT

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Friday, February 24, 2006 6:47 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES

Star Trek was the most boring thing ever put forth my man I hope it STAYS dead for a very long time.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 7:27 AM

RAGUA

I think enjoying both series depends on which Trek you watch. TNG is definitely antiseptic and Alliance-like, but DS9 and Enterprise both have a more down-and-dirty "human" feel to them. Neither is as "human" as Firefly, but I enjoy all three shows.

I still wish that Enterprise had been run by someone as talented, creative, and passionate as Joss. It had so much potential, but Berman and Braga pissed it away with their damned cookie-cutter, formulaic crap.

"I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!"

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Friday, February 24, 2006 7:58 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanW2050:
Also, that "Lady who always tells picard that he's fucking up" gets on my nerves.

Ah, looks like you've gotten ahold of the Next Generation stuff. What you want to be on the lookout for is The Original Series. Still not as good as Firefly but better than TNG.

David

"A lot of people are asking me, you know, what exactly is Firefly? It's a tv show you morons!" - Joss Whedon

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:01 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Well you don't have to worry about too much more. Look at Enterprise. There were three seasons of absolute crap then in the fourth season after I had given up on it, I turned to it and discovered it was good. Very good (not Firefly good, but compared to what it had been before it was the work of god) so I looked online to find out when it got good and found out it was already cancelled.

As a finale they did one extra special episode that was the worst of the lot. TV at its lowest. Enterprise set a new standard for Star Trek, a very low standard, and if an incarnation of Star Trek rises above that standard they will both cancel and desecrate it.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:20 AM

CHRISPV

Well, they are two very different universes. Joss himself said our BDHs are the kind of people the Enterprise would fly right by without noticing. I enjoy both, but everybody on Star Trek is just so darn nice to each other. Everybody loves everybody else. It's a nice ideal, but it doesn't speak to the human condition the way Firefly does.

Firefly is who we are, Star Trek is who we wish we were.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:54 AM

MYCROFTXXX

My opinion? Star Trek is NOT a good replacement for Firefly by a long shot.

TNG was a nice reaquaintance with the Star Trek franchise but lacked any sort of story arch beyond the occassional encounters with the Borg (and even these were always wrapped up in two or three episodes). It was also so unreal (who sleeps in their uniforms afterall!)

DS9? Didn't like it. To many set pieces, a bit more story arc though. Also, too political. If I want politics I'll watch West Wing. The whole Klingon war thing barely kept the show going its full 7 years.

Voyager? TNG all over again but with a twist. Still obsessed with the Borg towards the end.

Enterprise? Loved it because it was much closer to reality, had more believable people and real relationships. However, a lot of the material was definitely formulaic and recycled which I didn't like. When they stuck to the idea of "here's why we had to form the United Federation of Planets and the Prime Directive" it was good. When they went "temporal" thud!

Right now, my solace in the face of Firefly's hiatus (I'll NEVER give up hope): the new Battlestar Galactica and reruns of Farscape

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Friday, February 24, 2006 10:30 AM

LWAVES

I usually don't try to compare anything to Star Trek, especially Firefly.

The original series is great although dated now.
The next gen. was generally boring although it did have the borg. To sterile as someone said. Too many holodeck incidents. Too many Data tries to learn something and it goes wrong incidents.
DS9 was great. Darker in tone than the others.
Voyager was next gen in reverse. Same thing about the borg here.
Enterprise was fine if you hadn't seen next gen or voyager. If you had it pretty much just ripped those shows. Acting was better than next gen or voyager though.

Like the ship itself Firefly demands and defines it's own class. Pity be to those that never see it.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 12:26 PM

TH1RT3EN

Hello, I'm new here, thought I would post in this topic because of some interesting comparisons between the two franchises. I wouldn't say that either series is a replacement or substitute for the other but there are interesting parallels.
--A different point of view...
The Star Trek universe generally comes from the individuals being part of a great, good whole - The Federation. A great and powerful "alliance" of systems and peoples accepting of their individual differences, yet unified in their "open" way of thinking. But what if you don't want to be part of their perpetually expansive way of thinking???
Firefly looks at the underbelly of the "Federation" or "Alliance" and doesn't see eye to eye with its "utopian" concepts. They don't want to be part of this group or "meddled with" hence they are the outcast.
The original Trek dealt with these concepts a little better than the later generations as there was a more frontier to explore metaphorically speaking.
In any case, both series share the unique privelege of being resurrected from cancelled TV series to something more, by devoted fans who identify with what the the respective series had to say.
Sorry if that ranted off a bit...

A little suffering is good for the soul...

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Friday, February 24, 2006 12:57 PM

FAKESOUNDOFPROGRESS

Having grown up in a household with one Star Trek obsessed parent I have come to terms with the idea that I'm going to find it irritatingly compelling for the rest of my life (No matter how much I deny it). Seriously, I think its inherited. Star Trek and Firefly represent two sides of a continum though. Star Trek represents one extreme of always triumph over adversity, everyone (to some extent) helping each other out. Firefly represents the other extreme of totalitarianism where everything is done for everyones good whether they like it or not. And admittedly the Star Trek franchise has gotten tired over the years. Firefly is something fresh to Science Fiction which the genre as a whole despearately needs unless they plan on turning some more Issac Asimov books into films. Personally though Firefly is my fave followed by Stargate then Star Trek and its various offshoots.

The moment of the Rose and the moment of the Yew Tree are of equal duration.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 7:00 PM

SERENYTY

I'm not a trekkie. It just never appealed to me. But I DID like the fourth movie; the only one I saw. Save the whales!

I've just gotten hooked onto The X-Files. That's completely opposite to Firefly on the sci-fi spectrum, but I like it.

I still want more Serenity, though.

~A message from Serenyty~

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Friday, February 24, 2006 7:54 PM

RYANW2050

Quote:

Which one? The ship's counselor or the ship's doctor ?

Not the doctor, she's ok..

And yeah, i'm watching TNG since it's airing on G4.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:23 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

[qoute]I think enjoying both series depends on which Trek you watch. ....I still wish that Enterprise had been run by someone as talented, creative, and passionate as Joss. It had so much potential, but Berman and Braga pissed it away with their damned cookie-cutter, formulaic crap.

Damn right. And they had no respect for the GD timeline.

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Friday, February 24, 2006 8:28 PM

KIZYR

Oh I still very much enjoy isolated episodes of TNG or DS9 (especially after the Dominion Wars begin). Agreed, while things are quite sterile, and it deals with stuff that are generally too far removed from regular society (how can you relate to the troubles of transporting an ambassador from planet to planet? Or first contact with an alien species?) it was still rather interesting.

But, yeah, it never roped me in the same way Firefly did. Star Trek, I had to grow up on. Firefly took five minutes. KF

~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:28 AM

AGIRLYMAN

I tried to watch "Enterprise" but after a couple of episodes I gave up on it. A yr later I some repeats, it was pretty good, but for the most part they just rehashed earlier star trek plots. Entertaining, but nothing creative or new.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:35 AM

CBY

You simply can't compare Star Trek and Firefly - two completely different franchises, each with it's own strenghts and weaknesses - and Firefly has it's weaknesses as well

°°°°°°°°°°°°
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Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:57 PM

RYANW2050

Quote:
Originally posted by CBY:
You simply can't compare Star Trek and Firefly - two completely different franchises, each with it's own strenghts and weaknesses - and Firefly has it's weaknesses as well

IMPOSSIBLE!

:P

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:03 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

I never really saw Star Trek except for the original which was pretty good and some of TNG. The original had a lot of good moments what with James T. Kirk chasing females, both humana and alien and also my favorite "The Trouble with Tribbles".

Read "Mirror/Mirror" in "Finding Serenity". It tells how our BDH's would kick

in an "Enterprise" universe. I've read it over and over and I end up with laughing just as hard each time.

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 6:51 PM

CANTONHEROINE

No comparison.

Although, didn't the original Trek get axed after one series, and then get brought back in movie form thanks to fans of the re-runs? I could be wrong, but there's a nice parallel there if I'm not.

-----

"Now somethin' about that is just downright unsettlin'."

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Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:54 PM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
Originally posted by CantonHeroine:
Although, didn't the original Trek get axed after one series, and then get brought back in movie form thanks to fans of the re-runs?

The Original Trek actually hung around for 3 seasons before it was axed, but you’re right that it was brought back in movie form--after a decade off the air. That may have been for the better, since in the ensuing years it built up a sizable audience base in reruns. But all things considered, I’m happy to have the BDM now, rather than in 2012.

And I’d like to second Mycroftxxx’s recommendation to the original poster that a much better “Firefly” substitute is the reimagined “Battlestar Galactica.” Although it can never replace the ‘verse, it shares much more in common with it than Trek does.

Trek has its strengths, but they are the antithesis of “Firefly” (and BSG), so there’s no use turning to Star Trek for post-“Firefly” support.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:53 AM

AUSSAY

Star Trek is different sort of sci-fi show in my opinion and it certainly earns its place in sci-fi history

But NG and the other recent incarnations never really appealed to me. Even Enterprise seem didnt appeal

Firefly is so good in my opinion because of how different it was and how character driven the episodes are

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:13 AM

STARSONG

When I was growing up TNG was on the air. Atthe time I liked it - spaceships and exploring and whatnot.

In retrospect... yech. Too utopian. I much prefer the human honesty of Firefly.

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:51 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by RyanW2050:
Quote:
Originally posted by CBY:
You simply can't compare Star Trek and Firefly - two completely different franchises, each with it's own strenghts and weaknesses - and Firefly has it's weaknesses as well

IMPOSSIBLE!

:P

Absolutely impossible!

And I agree with several other posters that BSG is where you want to turn. It's less funny than our show, much more angsty ( yes that is a word!, well, now it is!) but very well done.

And someone else posted that Star Trek could draw you in over time... Firefly in 5 minutes.

Yea, exactly that. What they said.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:02 AM

ARCADIA

Star Trek Voyager was my favorite show when I was 8-13. I was young, then, and take no responsibility for my actions. :-) Actually, I do, because it was a fun show to watch at the time and the captain was a girl and we had the same name (albeit spelled differently). How awesome is that? Of course, she was also somewhat boring. My favorite character was the doctor.

As many have said, Firefly is more of a character driven show. It's morally ambiguous, and that makes it interesting.

If you want good scifi that is character-driven and full of tough moral situations, the new Battlestar Galactica is for you. It's pretty kick-ass. I also hear that Farscape is good, though I have never seen it. Lost is also pretty good, especially season one. And, from the looks of it, it is getting more scifi all the time.

Quote:
Originally posted by CBY:
You simply can't compare Star Trek and Firefly - two completely different franchises, each with it's own strenghts and weaknesses - and Firefly has it's weaknesses as well

Oh, but you can. Haven't you reading Finding Serenity? The comparison of Firefly to Enterprise was pure humor.

Also... Firefly? Weakness? You must be talking about the lightening of the show by Fox. Their interference is the only weakness I can think of...

"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:56 AM

WHITEFALL

I was a big fan of DS9 back in the day, and still am really, despite the whole Firefly thing, which I love. DS9, while yeah, very political, tended towards larger story arcs and such, and I don't just mean during the War in the last few seasons, though I'm still impressed that they had the guts to have their trademark station occupied by the enemy for a whole season. So yeah, too sterile, but there were more human-based arcs than the other shows I think... and section 31... great idea, even if it was a somewhat black and white contrast.

I survived a day in Whitefall and all I got was this lousy signature!

Terrifying Space Monkey of Destiny

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:27 AM

CBY

Quote:
Oh, but you can. Haven't you reading Finding Serenity? The comparison of Firefly to Enterprise was pure humor.

No, I haven't. I don't have the money to buy every single piece of merchandise out there.

EDIT: Toned it down a bit

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Monday, February 27, 2006 3:33 AM

PHILYBURKHILL

I like DS9 but I really don't like Voyager or Enterprise (though i've had Ent on TV sometimes, and it seems to have improved a lot in it's fourth season). Voyager just sucks, TNG is pretty good though.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 8:19 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisPV:
Well, they are two very different universes. Joss himself said our BDHs are the kind of people the Enterprise would fly right by without noticing. I enjoy both, but everybody on Star Trek is just so darn nice to each other. Everybody loves everybody else. It's a nice ideal, but it doesn't speak to the human condition the way Firefly does.

Firefly is who we are, Star Trek is who we wish we were.

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

There, right there, that explains the differences of the Verse's perfectly.

Plus, without something to fight for humans get bored.... and though the vision of Roddenberry's is ideal, I have a hard time seeing humans trying to achieve it. We're much too aggresive, and we's likes a fight.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

Edited to add I guesse I'm one of the rare people who loved Voyager, taped every episode, and really the stories weren't all that bad. Hell, they really had a lot of gritty episodes and I always saw Jayneway as Kirk in a skirt. Compare, Jayneway is someone who won't talk their enemy to death *coughPicardcough*. She gives whoever she's facing a chance to talk things out, but the minute she realizes they aren't going to negotiate she goes right for the guns, and if you didn't think The Year of Hell wasn't good, then you should go back and re-watch it. And in all the TNG episodes I never saw Riker fight Picard over a decision, but on Voyager there's plenty of conflict between Jayneway and Chakotay.

Yes I agree it jumped the shark in the last episodes (I will not think of the mess between Chakotay and ti.. I mean 7 of 9) But overall there was more character in the crew than there was in TNG. Things weren't as neatly packaged for them. Just felt the need to defend.

Next to Voyager, Firefly is my newest love. And of all the Captains, I can see Voyager interacting with the crew of Serenity, after all, many of the crew on Voyager are made up of criminals and mavericks.

Think about it.

Oh btw, Jayneway will shoot first if she has to.

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Monday, February 27, 2006 8:56 PM

ALGUS

I'm the guy that's got every Voyager paperback ever. Ok, so there were only about 25 of them compared to TOS which has over 100, same for TNG I do believe, I lost track when they stopped numbering them, but I love my Trek.

Still, Trek's got nothing on Firefly and BSG. I was taping DS9 off of Spike because Im too cheap to shell out $100 for the season sets (though I do believe some of them are finally coming down in price, win!) and while I love that show I couldn't help but notice some of the awful acting in it, especially from Nana Visitor.

Still DS9 had some SPECTACULAR episodes, such as the one where Sisko has that weird thing going on where he's living the life of a black author prior to the Civil Rights movement. And the cast did improve as time went by, sufficiently so that by the end I was sad to see it go. At its best, DS9 came close to touching the things that make shows like Firefly and BSG great. Still, while I still consider Trek great entertainment, it isnt as consistently good, from ten movies and however many episodes, (500ish? I dont know) I'd say there's only about 20-30 hours of real SOLID excellent storytelling. The rest of it ranges from mediocre to god awful.

---
Where's the KABOOM?! There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom! *sigh* Delays...delays...

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:04 AM

KIZYR

Quote:
Originally posted by Algus:
Still DS9 had some SPECTACULAR episodes, such as the one where Sisko has that weird thing going on where he's living the life of a black author prior to the Civil Rights movement. And the cast did improve as time went by, sufficiently so that by the end I was sad to see it go. At its best, DS9 came close to touching the things that make shows like Firefly and BSG great. Still, while I still consider Trek great entertainment, it isnt as consistently good, from ten movies and however many episodes, (500ish? I dont know) I'd say there's only about 20-30 hours of real SOLID excellent storytelling. The rest of it ranges from mediocre to god awful.

I find myself agreeing with that... Though, some of that solid, excellent storytelling was concentrated in some areas. For DS9, a lot of the last couple seasons had some solid storyline backing it; then again, DS9 I found very groundbreaking in a lot of ways. Mostly, it broke down the whole notion that we were living in some utopian world: you had the Bajorans emerging from oppression under a foreign power, the Cardassians allying with the Federation and then turning tail to ally with the Dominion, dissent within Cardassia at their allegiance, problems among the Federation with trying to keep Bajor in support, and not to mention the character interactions on ship / station. KF

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:12 AM

CEDRIC

I still enjoy Trek, but it ain't no Firefly.

You should check out the book _Finding Serenity_. There's a great section in there about how Trek shaped our notion of sci-fi, and how that hurt Firefly. Then there's an even better essay on what would happen if the crews of the Enterprise and Serenity suddenly traded places. It's damn funny.

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 9:06 AM

BWARE42

Quote:
Originally posted by Ragua:
I still wish that Enterprise had been run by someone as talented, creative, and passionate as Joss. It had so much potential, but Berman and Braga pissed it away with their damned cookie-cutter, formulaic crap.

Amen to that! My biggest gripe was bringing in new aliens we'd never heard of on any of the other series, plus that whole temporal cold war crap!

They should have stayed the course with the development of the federation, the conflict with the Klingons, and the Vulcan/Andorian friction...They tried to go back to the cooler stuff at the end with the mirror verse and the "future" starship, but it was too late...Oh well, another show I liked that was not given its due.

Time for some thrilling heroics.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2006 12:00 PM

CYBERSNARK

Huh. I guess I really am the only one who disliked the final season of Enterprise. It just started getting too fannish, too "hey, look at us working in clever references to the Original Series Gospel!"

The first three seasons were creative and bold, but apparently people don't want that.

I just hope that, when Star Trek comes out of its hibernation, we get a Xindi crew member in the next series. Preferebly a Reptillian or an Insectoid.

Quote:
Originally posted by Algus:
I'm the guy that's got every Voyager paperback ever.

Not the only one.

Between TNG, DS9, Voyager, New Frontiers, SCE, Strange New Worlds, Titan, and the occasional non-series digressions they put out, I've probably got over a hundred Star Trek books around this house (including comics).

Course, my Star Wars collection is equally vast.

I need to buy a library.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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