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Originally posted by Melam:


I mean as far as I could tell Blue Sun is no more than a very large corporation that makes, or distributes a huge volume and viriaty of merchandice. Sort of like Walmart.

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As far as the series or movie ever went, no one ever even mentioned Blue Sun, let alone paint a dastardly picture on it. Their logo was seen in the background, and we can see that they are the suppliers of many different types of goods and services, but not much else. The "evil corporation" idea came from Joss and company after the series was cancelled.

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Originally posted by Melam:
Even if they are an "evil corporation", why the insistant comments by others that would paint the company as part of the Alliance?

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Originally posted by Melam:
Even if they are an "evil corporation", why the insistant comments by others that would paint the company as part of the Alliance?

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In one of the special features from the Firefly set the connection between the Aliance government and Blue Sun is explicitly refered to. I think it was also alluded to in the commentary to Serenity the episode.

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Originally posted by mattcoz:
I have evidence that this Academy is actually a decendant branch of the University of Illinois.

http://www.mrbluehands.com

River: ILL-INI... ILL-INI...

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Originally posted by Melam:

So, A friend pointed out to me, and I've started seeing it a lot as well, that there are a fair number of folk refering to Blue Sun as the Alliance, or at least interchangeably.

Some go so far as to say that it was Blue Sun that took River and conducted the experiments.

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‘Economically the Alliance can be thought of as primarily mercantilist in nature, that is to say it is capitalist but without the notion of free trade or much in the way of state restrictions on monopolies’ Steven began. ‘In many ways it can be seen as a parallel to the situation within the gradually emerging economic situation during the 18th Century in that large companies formed to take advantage of the new colonial enterprises and whilst society was gradually industrialising in some areas agriculture still dominated the lives of many.’

The academic started pacing up and down as was his habit when teaching. ‘You can take the comparison further’ he said. ‘To give an example, during this time period on Earth-That-Was there was a private colonial concern known as the “East India Company” which was set up on the Indian Sub-Continent. Originally it was just a business but over the years it expanded its interests and eventually operated its own army both to protect these interests and expand them still further.’

‘In the end the British government and the East India Company became so entwined that it was hard to distinguish where one began and the other ended. Business turned to informal Empire and eventually outright annexation of territory.’ Steven said. ‘In a similar way the big terraforming companies and conglomerates of today were originally just private concerns but as they expanded outwards to develop new worlds the line was blurred between their perceived interests and those of the state.’

‘The Alliance bankrolled a number of these ventures through loans. It also lent troops to protect its investments. As the state became more and more involved in these private ventures the conglomerates similarly became more and more wrapped up in the state especially given the number of formally state-run sectors that were either privatised outright or contracted out such as communications.’

‘Money of course is another factor. Many politicians were either bought outright or else persuaded into voting one way or the other by well funded lobbyists with corporate backing.’

‘As the dividing line between the conglomerates and the government faded it was inevitable that it the end the needs of business would far outweigh the needs of the people, or indeed capitalism itself’. Steven paused to take a drink. ‘As they developed some of the outer planets had begun to industrialise and although such competition is actually beneficial to the economy as a whole it was bad news to the established firms in the core which fought back by persuading the government to introduce the diabolical tariff system we have to put up with now.’

‘Ironically this suppression of competition is one reason why the vastly outmatched Independent industrial base kept us going so long. Many of the core factories insulated from competition were highly inefficient and bureaucratic by comparison to the newer more dynamic enterprises on the rim. They had many times the industrial potential but nowhere near the individual productivity per worker which is one reason why all those gleaming core metropolises didn’t crush the Browncoats instantly under a tidal wave of logistics like they really should have.’

‘The other reasons were of course down to frequently poor tactical doctrine and a thorough lack of intestinal fortitude.’ Steven continued.

‘A lack of what did you say?’ Claire-Marie asked.

‘Intestinal fortitude’ Steven repeated. ‘Otherwise known as guts’ he continued smiling and slapping his stomach. ‘The bellies may have been purple on the outside but they were often yellow underneath’ he joked. ‘You can’t take some poor core draftee who’s lived a nice comfortable life for eighteen years drop him off in the middle of nowhere with a rifle and expect him to fight as hard as someone who is on their home-turf, who’s been hunting for food for much of their life and who has a much better grasp on why they’re actually fighting in the first place.’

The academic smiled again. ‘This reminds me of the old joke. An Ally and a Browncoat are lying together in a ditch wounded after a battle. The Browncoat asks the Ally why he’s fighting and the Ally says to unify the worlds under one government for the greater good. The Ally asks the same question to which the Browncoat replies…’

‘Because you’re down here’ Mal interrupted finishing the story. ‘Abstract ideals don’t mean squat next to knowing you’re fighting for your own land and your own kind.’

‘Too true, but in any case I digress’. ‘Another historical parallel with the 18th Century is the use of indentured servitude, and often outright slavery, across the inhabited worlds with little effort or motivation by the government to eradicate it.’

‘For the most part such things were abolished on Earth-That-Was six centuries ago but like a foul reminder of a bygone age it returned along with the subsistence farming communities of the rim and the forced-labour camps we often find employed during terraforming operations.’

Steven shook his head sadly. ‘Another product of the illiberal corporate Oligarchy of our times is the resurrection in many places of an actual aristocracy which again demonstrates a regression in our political situation and is a visual demonstration of how wide the gap is between the obscenely wealthy and the rest of us.’

‘A whattyarchy?’ Wash asked loudly. It looked like everyone had decided to turn up to listen in on today’s class.

‘Oligarchy’ Cally answered before her father could. ‘A government in which the power is within the hands of a small group not the many. In the case of the Alliance it’s the higher echelons of the military, the secret service, big business and certain politicians.’ She paused. ‘It’s not really a tyranny because power doesn’t wholly reside with one man or group not can it be called a Democracy by any stretch of the imagination.’

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Originally posted by asarian:

Also, in the BDM, Dr. Mathias says:

"I was told that the Alliance's support for the project was unanimous."

Indicating that the Academy, where River is being held, is itself not Alliance! And who else but Blue Sun has enough clout to run a military type facility of this sort?

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Originally posted by Fletch2:

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Originally posted by asarian:


Also, in the BDM, Dr. Mathias says:

"I was told that the Alliance's support for the project was unanimous."

Indicating that the Academy, where River is being held, is itself not Alliance! And who else but Blue Sun has enough clout to run a military type facility of this sort?

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Except that the bigger the organisation the less connected things are. just because you work for the Alliance doesnt make you the Alliance. Mathias has had an official turn up out of the blue with papers that say he can make an immediate spot review (ie Simon.) Mathias is worried about his job so he's confirming that the project still has support. In effect he's naming his paymaster (the Alliance) that doesnt imply anything more, he could have a project in a government lab, the labs of an outside contractor, even a university. I have known people working for government labs, when funding needs to be renewed they say "hope the government backs my project" not "hope we back my project."

Would an "Operative of the Parliament" be allowed complete unrestricted access to a fascillity operated by a private company even if that company does government work? Guess we don't really know enough about the 'Verse to know.

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