why does everything else suck? by kitch

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

why does everything else suck?

POSTED BY: KITCH
UPDATED: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:33
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7339
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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:03 PM

Anyway, why does everything on TV suck? All the shows i like, get cancelled, while gorram "According to Jim " is still on the F'ing air? How is this? Who are these people? Is it the red state thing again? I'm soooo confused/angry/tipsy/so glad I have Firefly/Serenity/angry again cuz I just remembered Jim Belushi still has a tv show/happy cuz I also have all 5 seasons of Angel/ love you guys!.....Night

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 9:50 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by kitch:

Anyway, why does everything on TV suck?

Everything is now geared toward the lowest common denominator. That's where the most people are and they're really easy to manipulate (because they're not terribly bright).

Thus the advertisers really want to get to them, so the tv companies can charge lots for the commercial time so that's where the most profit is.

And this vicious circle continues until we have tonnes of reality tv. Wait a minute...

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Wednesday, March 8, 2006 11:04 PM

AUSSAY

Why is According to Jim still on air?

lol I think that is one of the most interesting phenomenons on earth

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 2:49 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Well, I find every year that there is less on television to hold my interest. Other than BSG, SG1 & SG Atlantis on Sci Fi Channel the only thing I watch is Lost & The Shield.

I just can't stand all of the "reality" (read scripted for maximum drama & sponsor dollar impact) tv & senseless eye candy that networks clog the airways with these days.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 2:52 AM

GIXXER

Never heard of Jim, but I can guess.

My bugbear is "Everyone Loves Raymond."

Presumptuous.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 3:15 AM

GRIZWALD

Okay, here's what I thought this thread was going to be about:

I can't hardly watch TV anymore. I think, "do I want to watch this, or would I rather spend this valuable hour of my life watching 'The Hero of Canton' just one more time?" And guess what always seems to win?!

Nothing matches up to Firefly.

I'm a sad case, I know it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They couldn't take the sky from them.
Our Big Damn Heroes made a film!

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 4:10 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

Last night, while checking On Demand movies, a Serenity ad came on. It was like a little ray of sunshine through thick clouds. There was NOTHING we even rmotely wanted to watch in the On Demand menu. The best thing was the Serenity trailer!

I then turned to hubby and said "You realize I will be watching Firefly and Serenity at random intervals for the rest of my life, even though I have watched it a hundred times already, right?"

He shook his head, called me a weirdo and gave me a kiss :D

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 5:25 AM

CARTOON

Quote:
Originally posted by kitch:
Anyway, why does everything on TV suck?

Well, people are all different, and have different tastes (or lack thereof).

I've often thought that "quality" begets "quality". My prime example of this was the music scene of the 1960's -- with the emergence of The Beatles. The Beatles were so good (and so different from everything else at the time) that other bands (if they wanted to compete for air time) had to rise to the occasion -- and a lot of good music was produced from the mid-sixties through the early-seventies (then disco killed everything).

The thing with "Firefly" was that it only lasted 14 episodes, so it didn't have a chance to force the competition to get better in order to compete.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 5:42 AM

MATTCOZ

Because all the smart original shows get cancelled before their prime.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 6:41 AM

NUCLEARDAY

Yeah, sorry, it's all my fault, I'm cursed, you see

Somehow every show I start to get into ends up getting canned prematurely:

Space Rangers, Earth 2 (wasn't that good actually, but had that girl from the Noxzema commercials...), Futurama, Family Guy (well, that doesn't count anymore,) Briscoe County Jr, American Gothic, Jack of All Trades, Cleopatra 2525 (Is it sick that I can still sing the themesong to that show? Also, Gina Torres.) Andy Richter Controls the Universe, Lost World (well, that really sucked, but in a good sort of 'there's nothing else on anyways' sort of way,) and any number of shows from the late 80's and early 90's that I really liked but only lasted like two episodes. (Can't remember the name, but there was this really wierd one about a CEO of some evil company that slept in a cardboard box and helped random people every episode, but still somehow managed to be really evil about it...)

I often think that Battlestar Galactica wouldn't be on the air if I still had Sci-Fi channel, and that it's only on now 'cause I missed the last two eps of the mini-series. ;p

Oddly, the only salve to my affliction appears to be Kevin Sorbo. Somehow he has a power to overcome the evil forces involved in television programming. He is the yin to Bruce Campbell's yang. Even Andromeda managed to last much longer than I had thought it would, and I can't count that one 'cause I really didn't want to like that show. (Again, behold the power of Sorbo.)

Here's what Firefly should have done: Kevin Sorbo's face should have been spliced into the opening credits and all the commercials for the show, subliminal-like. I believe that alone would have been enough for another season, at least. (Also, a scene in the credits where the crew is running in slow-motion and it freeze-frames right as they jump away from something exploding. That's worth extra points, and if I read the rules correctly, earns an extra episode.)

Wow, okay. Rant over, nothing to see here ;p

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:13 AM

STORYMARK

Tastes are different, and I wouldn't say there is nothing on that's any good. I'd say 24, The Shield, Lost, Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, The Sopranos, Battlestar Galactica, Scrubs, Arrested Development, Bones, and Alias are all shows I enjoy, and there are a few others I've heard good things about, but have not had the chance to see. And some shows, like the Law and Orders and CSI's, while there are waaay too many of them, they are generally quality productions, that I do enjoy when I watch them.

And what's quality to one person is another's crap. Not to pick on anyone, but as an example, someone above mentioned that they really liked Jack of All Trades and Cleopatra 2525, both shows which I thought deserved to be cancelled (and I'm a huge Bruce Campbell fan). And there have been shows I was upset about loosing, that others may have thought were lame. Off the top of my head, Kindred: The Embraced, and Highlander: The Raven might fall into that category.

It's still a crime that Firefly was cancelled. Just to be clear.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:25 AM

MATTCOZ

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:
Cleopatra 2525 (Is it sick that I can still sing the themesong to that show? Also, Gina Torres.)

Hahaha, well, it is quite the catchy tune. "In the yeeear 2525, three women keep hope aliiive..."

Honestly, I was never much of a fan of Gina on that show. Can't imagine anyone else being Zoe though.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:32 AM

KITCH

Hey all! thanks for the feedback, very cool! Another show that was SO GOOD and got cancelled was "Profit" Has anyone seen/heard of it? I bought the dvds last summer. If you haven't seen it, check it out. Another classic example of something that was so good that got the shaft. (by Fox) Also it was produced by David Greenwalt from Angel, and the guy who played Holtz on Angel is in it too. See ya!!!

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 7:48 AM

ISAACSHEPHERD

It's sad to me that most of everything that is on tv is horrible. As someone above mentioned it's all about the money. Reality tv is cheap, look at some of the prizes that are won and think about how much the networks make in advertising. The networks wonder why to spend so much on a tv sci-fi budget than to have average joe make a fool of himself, and no one is paying joe.
Many people I know also watch tv just cause it's something to do. In the city I live in there isn't too much to do. What enough people don't realize is if it isn't good, you shouldn't leave your tv on. That in itself increases ratings but if enough do it, that's enough to keep junk on the air.
I will admit there are a few shows out there that are good but not as much as it used to be when I was younger. Networks have gotten too greedy and they don't think we've noticed yet.
IS

The Bible's a bit fuzzy on the subject of kneecaps.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:32 AM

MILFORD

That's hilarious, Sorbo in Sereinity. I'm confident it would have worked.

Is is that everything else sucks, or is it that Joss has made something outstanding and ruined the rest of us for TV watching until the end of our days by setting the bar at an astronomical level?

Remember, that but for one trifling exception, the entire universe is made up of others.- Oliver Wendall Holmes

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:33 AM

STORYMARK

Another thing to keep in mind is the old rule: 90% of everything is crap. So sure, most of what's on is reality TV, and it sucks. But 10-15 years ago, there was very little reality TV beyond "The Real World", and the rest was scripted TV. And a lot of it sucked.

People say it used to be better, but I disagree. It's better when you look at it through the prism of memory, but the fact is, when you look back like that, you tend to remember what you liked - and forget the majority of what you either didn't like or didn't watch. I don't think TV has gotten worse, it's just that the crap has taken a slightly different form. I would argue that right now, TV is about the best it's been in a decade. There are a lot of shows on, such as those I listed above, which are better than not only other TV shows, but also better than most films released recently.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 12:16 PM

KIZYR

I watch very little television anyhow, so what I do watch has to be really good to catch my interest. Right now, the only things I watch semi-regularly are Lost, reruns of New York Undercover, and Battlestar Galactica (though I just recently got into BSG, so I missed a lot). Oh, right, and occasionally both SG-1 and Atlantis, both of which I really like.

Now, Firefly probably would have the best chance of appealing to the demographic that's making Battlestar Galactica such a success right now. So why isn't it on the air anymore?

I'd say 'cause it was handled by FOX, while BSG was not. Pure and simple. There was nothing wrong with Firefly itself; but slice and dice a series the right way and you can make anything fail. Had FOX handled BSG, I'm quite certain they would've gotten it canned just as quickly.

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:
Somehow every show I start to get into ends up getting canned prematurely:

... Jack of All Trades, Cleopatra 2525 (Is it sick that I can still sing the themesong to that show? Also, Gina Torres.) ...

Oh Jack of All Trades was amazing! That I still think was Bruce Campbell at his best. ...I see no redemption whatsoever in Cleo 2525 though, so I won't comment there.

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
People say [the past] used to be better, but I disagree. It's better when you look at it through the prism of memory, but the fact is, when you look back like that, you tend to remember what you liked - and forget the majority of what you either didn't like or didn't watch.

Wholeheartedly agree. When I think of sitcoms from the 80s and early 90s, I think of stuff like Perfect Strangers, not Step-by-Step. Time tends to weed out the crap pretty well.

...gorrammit, now I got the Step by Step song stuck in my head! KF

~KF

Lord, I'm walking your way. Let me in, for my feet are sore, my clothes are ragged.
Look in my eyes, Lord, and my sins will play out on them as on a screen. Read them all.
Forgive what you can and send me on my path. I will walk on until you bid me rest.
~Haven Prayer

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:06 PM

SHINEYLITTLEALBATROS

I don't think everything on tv is bad..LOST! I love LOST and Man there's a lot of According to Jim bashing in here, most people say that they hate it and haven't ever seen it...there was one where the fat guy (Not jim)dressed up like santa, then tried to flush the beard down the toliet, and then he tried to climb out the window and kept falling down LOL!

But reality stinks...bad...If I could, I'd kill it with a cuetip...

Lost is the only really good show on right now and look whos behind it JOSS!

-----
Oh, its grotest!oh and there's something in that jar.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:19 PM

MATTCOZ

New shows that I watch:

24, House, Bones, Love Monkey(before it was cancelled), Smallville, My Name Is Earl, The Office, Invasion, Surface

Reruns that I watch:

X-Files, Angel, Wonderfalls, and of course Firefly on DVD

Interesting thing is that Tim Minear was involved with all four of those shows.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:24 PM

SADLITTLEKING

Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:
Cleopatra 2525 (Is it sick that I can still sing the themesong to that show? Also, Gina Torres.)
Hahaha, well, it is quite the catchy tune. "In the yeeear 2525, three women keep hope aliiive..." Honestly, I was never much of a fan of Gina on that show. Can't imagine anyone else being Zoe though.

Let's all sing along:

"In the year 2525, there are women with the will to survive. Fighting for a brand new day. Nothing's gonna get in their way. And in the year 2525, three women keep hope alive. Joining forces to reclaim the Earth. Looking ahead to human kind's rebirth."

I thought that show was pretty good. Cleo was a fun character. And the idea of The Voice was really cool. Plus, I liked her accent.

Anyway, the only shows I really watch right now are Battlestar Galactica, Gilmore Girls (smart and well-written show), Lost, MythBusters, and Iron Chef America. I used to watch much more television back when quality programming ruled the airwaves and a show like Space: Above and Beyond could actually run for a full season before getting axed. But now network television has been taken over by Reality TV and CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York, and CSI Canada (the Mounties!!!).

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 8:31 PM

MATTCOZ

It was a guilty pleasure.

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Thursday, March 9, 2006 9:52 PM

ZOID

mattcoz, et al:

I watch precisely three network TV shows. In descending order, they are: Battlestar Galactica (BSG), House, M.D., and Bones.

BSG is an amazing creation. Of course, it should come as no surprise that the SFX are done by Firefly's Zoic, has 'no sound in space' like Firefly, and many former Mutant Enemy alumni are principle contributors to the show. Whoever it was that said in an earlier post that Firefly hadn't been on long enough to influence other shows, is clearly wrong and BSG is the proof.

It should be noted that the other two shows I watch are both on F*x. You should tune them in before F*x figures out that they're quality entertainment and cancel them. House, M.D. received a Golden Globe for Hugh Laurie (of Blackadder fame for you Brits) in the title role. Therefore, this should be its last season before F*x pulls the plug saying, "We are truly sorry that House couldn't find its audience. We hope to work with Mr. Laurie again, in future endeavors. In the meantime, be sure and tune in "American Idol: The Elvis Impersonators", which takes over this time slot, Tuesdays at 8 Eastern. Thank you, and f*ck you all very much."

And of course, shame on you BtVS and AtS fans for not religiously watching Bones. It stars Emily Deschanel (Zooey's older sis) as a forensic anthropologist, and some guy named David Boreneaz as her FBI partner. I never much cared for the Buffyverse (okay, so kill me), but I quite like Boreneaz 'playing it straight' without the prosthetics, and he plays a prominent role in the (excellent) ensemble cast.

Everything else I watch is on one or another of the Discovery Channels, or the History Channel. (Meaning: I can't stand the fact that SciFi are showing drivel like Stargate Atlantis instead of new seasons of Firefly. Sorry. It's just so... Canadian.

)

Voyeuristically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:18 AM

ARCADIA

Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
Therefore, this should be its last season before F*x pulls the plug saying, "We are truly sorry that House couldn't find its audience. We hope to work with Mr. Laurie again, in future endeavors. In the meantime, be sure and tune in "American Idol: The Elvis Impersonators", which takes over this time slot, Tuesdays at 8 Eastern. Thank you, and f*ck you all very much."

No! Please don't let them do that!

Actually - and thank merciful buddha for this - I doubt Fox will cancel House... well, not this season. It pulls good ratings. Now, these ratings are in serious danger of plummeting now that American Idol is back and Fox is f*cking with House's time slot, but in the meantime, yay! Let us enhoy House.

I haven't caught Bones yet. It's one of those shows that I mean to see, but never get around to. I LOVE BGG. IT is quality.

Other good shows on right now:
Veronica Mars (this is Joss-approved, too; he appeared in an episode. Seriously, though, this is a well written show with solid dialogue, excellent acting, and an intriguing over-arcing mystery. Also, some of the most interesting characters on TV - especially Veronica and Logan.)

Lost (who doesn't love lost? Well, lots of people, especially since the second season is moving slowly, but... well, I like it a lot)

Gilmore Girls (not everybody's cup of tea, but I like it a lot; witty dialogue)

I think that concludes Katie's list of good shows on TV. I agree with everyon who said that TV caters to the lowest common denomenator. This is true, especially the major networks. NBC would have never greenlighted a show like Firefly. UPN and the WB and FOX -- treditionally the bottom three networks rating wise and quality wise, though this is changing as FOX gets bigger and bigger -- are generally known for taking on the most experimental, interesting show... and then promptly cancelling them because the ratings are never very good, mainly because they suck at promoting things.

I also want to point out that making shows like "According to Jim" are less expensive than "Firefly" and therefore if they aren't preforming as well, its not really a big deal. Television is very expensive. I'm not sure how much an episode of Firefly costs, but I would guess around $1million. A half hour sitcom... probably half that amount.

So, yeah... TV...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"
River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Is it the red state thing again?

I'm a red stater, and I certainly agree that most of what we see on T.V. sucketh.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kronos!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, March 10, 2006 2:04 AM

NUCLEARDAY

Quote:
Originally posted by SadLittleKing:
Anyway, the only shows I really watch right now are Battlestar Galactica, Gilmore Girls (smart and well-written show), Lost, MythBusters, and Iron Chef America. I used to watch much more television back when quality programming ruled the airwaves and a show like Space: Above and Beyond could actually run for a full season before getting axed. But now network television has been taken over by Reality TV and CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York, and CSI Canada (the Mounties!!!).

Yeah, Mythbusters is my current addiction (as far as shows that are actually still on the air.) Also used to watch the original Iron Chef religiously (Iron Chef America has a real cheesey host, too, plus Shatner, but it's hard to beat the host of the original show... I used to watch just to hear him present the secret ingredient. :)

Space Above and Beyond I never really got into. Good show, but... I never really cared all that much about the characters.

Gilmore Girls is a sometimes guilty-pleasure of mine. Didn't think I'd like it, but it's really grown on me. An aside: anyone remember Sports Night? Another show that was too well-written to last long. I don't even like sports, but I got totally hooked on that show. Really good dialogue, I always like the quick back-and-forth type of stuff, reminiscent of the old 20's and 30's film noir stuff.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 2:25 AM

AUSSAY

*puts on Abraham Simpson voice*

"Maaaaaaatttlockkkk!"

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com/

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Friday, March 10, 2006 3:42 AM

MSCKAREN

What I miss is having a show I love so much that I plan my schedule around it. X-Files, Angel, Firefly... (I am planning on the season finale for BSG tonight but haven't been scheduling around it previous to this.)

I saw a commercial for Dr Who starting here on SF(?) soon so I'll check it out...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Appears they've cancelled the show and we're still here. What does that make us?"
"Big damn junkies, Sir!"
"Ain't we just."
http://karenallover.blogspot.com/

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Friday, March 10, 2006 3:51 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

"Another show that was SO GOOD and got cancelled was "Profit""

Did someone say PROFIT?!?!?!?! Guess what hubby just ordered on DVD? All the Profit episodes :D (check Amazon.com...we are getting a used set for $15)

I guess we found the other person who liked the show, since I think there were only 3 or 4 of us watching when it aired :P

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Friday, March 10, 2006 7:06 AM

MATTCOZ

House and Bones will be just fine, they air right after American Idol so they get all the "too lazy to change the channel" viewers. Oh, and the one time recently where they moved House, the moved it right before 24, what a horrible thing to do, heh.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 7:51 AM

KITCH

You and your husband have excellent taste! I'm the other Profit fan!!!!

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Friday, March 10, 2006 8:22 AM

ZOMBIASH

I too miss looking forward to a show each week. I now find myself reading or getting online rather than watching anything. Many of the shows that are on now, I find to be quite similar to one another; same situations, jokes, ect. Kinda gets old after a while. And I really hate reality tv.
The only shows on now that I watch are Lost, Veronica Mars, and occasionally The Office and My name is Earl.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 9:05 AM

WTE

I'm catching up on Veronica Mars (hope to be caught up by the time new episodes are back). Other than that, Scrubs. That's about all I watch.

HONKS

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Friday, March 10, 2006 12:34 PM

GIXXER

Well, Invasion is still on. It's probably up to episode 30 by now.

I was just wondering if anything had actually happened yet / ever / at all?

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:44 PM

MATTCOZ

Lots of stuff has happened in Invasion. It was moving rather slowly but has really picked up the last few episodes. If you stopped watching I'd suggest jumping back in.

Btw, back to Cleo2525 for a sec, Victoria Pratt("Sarge") is going to join Adam Baldwin on his new show. Now he just needs to work with Jennifer Sky("Cleo") to complete the hat trick, heh.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 1:57 PM

CAITLYN

Current shows that really are shiny:

Battlestar Galactica
Doctor Who

I watched the fist episode of Conviction (with J. August Richards from Angel) and it wasn't too bad. It depends where they go with it. I'm not really hopeful.

I got really tired of Lost pretty quickly.

I've watched a few NCIS episodes because of David McCallum (I'm a big Sapphire & Steel fan) and it doesn't do it for me, though the character that McCallum plays (Ducky) is quite good.

Stargate: SG1 was good for a very long time but I've gotten tired of it as well. Atlantis, well... yeah, it sucks.

SO... I've come up with exactly two shows that don't suck, plus DVD reruns of:

Firefly/Serenity
Harsh Realm
Sapphire & Steel
Doctor Who (the old episodes)
The Prisoner
Babylon 5
Crusade
Blakes 7
Wonderfalls

plus miniseries like...

Neverwhere
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
Invasion Earth

KAYLEE
Wow... That didn't sound half bad...

MAL
I'm shocked, my own self.

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Friday, March 10, 2006 11:53 PM

AGIRLYMAN

"Girly's theory of Sucktivity"

Everything pales compared to "Firefly", because it is so great on so many levels. We have to settle, because "Fox" had to meddle.

May the Fox executives responsible burn in the special hell.

AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!?!?!?

Tee Hee

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 12:55 AM

CLEANER

Don't forget to look outside the US.

New Season of Doctor Who starting at the end of this month.
Life on Mars (BBC) was really well done.
Charlie Jade (Sth Africa) is well worth a look.
Battlestar Season 3 has been announced for October.

"If wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak!!!"

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:33 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kizyr:
When I think of sitcoms from the 80s and early 90s, I think of stuff like Perfect Strangers, not Step-by-Step. Time tends to weed out the crap pretty well.

...gorrammit, now I got the Step by Step song stuck in my head! KF

I've got the Perfect Strangers theme in my head. I liked that song.

Wish I could find out the actual song/artist name; there's probably a longer "radio" version somewhere I could download.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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