Why are the SW Prequels horrible? by V

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why are the SW Prequels horrible?

POSTED BY: V
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 06:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 11085
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Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:53 PM

http://www.rainbowanimations.com/animations/view.php?id=swtransitions
Thy truth, revealed!

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:56 PM

MATTCOZ

Umm...

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:58 PM

KHYRON

Not my kind of stupid.

In fact you just cost me two minutes of my life and I want them back!

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:05 PM

Yeah it was stupid. I ain't gonna lie.

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:14 PM

ROLAND19

All right, so because apparently the link is to something stupid, I'm going to avoid it and instead answer the question at hand.

Episode 1: Jake Lloyd. Period.
Episode 2: Pretty worthless until the last half hour or so. You know, when the Empire starts to take shape.
Episode 3: Wasn't "bad," but because in order to understand it you have to see the awful first 2, I'll say it's worth avoiding. And when Vader yells "PAAAADMEEEE!" at the end I shook my head in sadness. I used to love you, George Lucas. You slut.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 10:42 PM

SAZMAN

Yes, that sums it up pretty well. Also, wooden dialogue and direction. Lucas has the amazing ability to take superb actors and turn them into rejects from an Acting 101 class.

Only Ian McDiarmid in "Sith" managed to escape this curse, at least until Palpatine became deformed, and turned into a cackling cartoon.

Alec Guiness distanced himself from the originals because he said he couldn't stand the "bloody awful dialog." While the originals are much better, there are still some howlers there, as well.

The prequels also suffer hugely from having no edge to them, none at all; no Han Solo character to wise crack and add some much-needed humor and cockiness. We had to settle for Jar Jar.

Seriously, everyone is so polite it's like attending an etiquitte class.

One final flaw, is that we already knew how the story would turn out, so there was absolutely zero real suspense. It became an excercise in seeing how things unfolded for the sake of watching them unfold, not in wondering what would happen.

The prequels were thus ill-conceived from the start.

*********************************************

Start with the part where Jayne gets knocked out by a 90 pound girl. 'Cause I don't think that's ever getting old.

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Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:41 PM

AKUKODOGO

Quote:
Originally posted by sazman:
Yes, that sums it up pretty well. Also, wooden dialogue and direction. Lucas has the amazing ability to take superb actors and turn them into rejects from an Acting 101 class.

Only Ian McDiarmid in "Sith" managed to escape this curse, at least until Palpatine became deformed, and turned into a cackling cartoon.

Alec Guiness distanced himself from the originals because he said he couldn't stand the "bloody awful dialog." While the originals are much better, there are still some howlers there, as well.

The prequels also suffer hugely from having no edge to them, none at all; no Han Solo character to wise crack and add some much-needed humor and cockiness. We had to settle for Jar Jar.

Seriously, everyone is so polite it's like attending an etiquitte class.

One final flaw, is that we already knew how the story would turn out, so there was absolutely zero real suspense. It became an excercise in seeing how things unfolded for the sake of watching them unfold, not in wondering what would happen.

The prequels were thus ill-conceived from the start.

Here here and a round of drinks for that Browncoat over there.
NO edge, no mystery, no substance. All overblown effects and I got ever so tired of hearing the grinding wheels while the story tried to move along dragging such huge effects for no real purpose.
Lucas could have had his dream but either had someone else realise it for him or even better not do it at all.
It is sinful how much money was spent on something so trite.
Sorry ranting, but it so gets my knickers in knot when go se like this rakes in the cash, when the somnambulent public turns out in hoards to see something that didn't come within cooee of the original that were good mainly cause they had an edge to them thirty years ago.
I'm going back into my corner now.

Noble as a grape

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 3:55 AM

NUCLEARDAY

Quote:
Originally posted by sazman:
Yes, that sums it up pretty well. Also, wooden dialogue and direction. Lucas has the amazing ability to take superb actors and turn them into rejects from an Acting 101 class.

Agreed ;p Where's the chemistry from the originals? Always seemed like everyone was just showing up to pick up a check. I know most of the actors in the prequels are better than that, but you can only do so much with what you have to work with. That's like 75% of a Director's job is to get the most out of your actors, and Lucas either didn't seem to get that or simply failed. (And of course here's where Firefly/ Serenity came through in spades. Look what happens when the cast and crew are actually enthusiastic about the project :)

Also... listening to the various actors in interviews and such... Did anyone notice alot of them almost trying to distance themselves from the movie? I heard alot of them talking about how hard it is to act in front of a bluescreen, etc... almost like they were trying to excuse themselves for lackluster performances? Sure, everyone was excited to be able to hold a lightsaber, etc... But I never got the feeling anyone was terribly excited about the actual movie.

Also, Lucas had help when writing the dialogue and directing the originals. Some people are simply better as the idea man. Lucas was better when collaborating with others... wish he'd been mature enough to recieve some help with the prequels. He's always been notoriously bad at dialogue, I remember hearing Carrie Fischer talking once about how hard some of his lines were to say. I know, he had his own vision, etc... But Star Wars isn't his. It's not his movie. It belongs to the fans ;p

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:08 AM

SIMONB

Well, someone's gotta say it, so I will. I liked 'em. Seriously.

I'm a huge fan of STAR WARS (including the expanded universe, novels, comics etc) and whilst I felt the dialogue has taken several turns for the worse in the prequels, I really, REALLY enjoyed them. I know that puts me in the minority, so I won't try and convert anyone to 'em or argue with anyone that hates them - we're all entitled to an opinion on them. But I really liked them.

Episode 1 suffered (IMHO) because it was an introduction, and yeah maybe Jar Jar was a mistake (but he never got on my nerves as much as he did to some people) and Jake Lloyd was wooden as hell, but I love Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Episode 2 was brilliant, I felt George redeemed himself with that one (boy am I gotta get it for saying that - but that's just what I felt about it) - though I do fast-forward through the mushy Anakin/Padme scenes. And Episode 3 I really loved. Though I would have loved to have re-written some of the dialogue before hand.

I agree, the edge was lost as we didn't have any Han like rogues. Also, I feel the main difference which might account for some disliking it, is that we have no core group of heroes like we do on Firefly or the classic Trilogy. All the people in the prequels are either going to die, go bad or turn on each other - so we don't have a 'family' to root for. Knowing what was to come didn't ruin it for me, because I like the way he drew them together, and I loved seeing the way Palpatine manipulated all the sides to his own advantage.

But before you all lynch me for my entitled opinion, let me say that no matter how big a fan of Star Wars I might be - first and foremost I am a BROWNCOAT!

FIREFLY RULES

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:19 AM

JONUS

Jake Lloyd was only like 8 years old. You can't expect an Oscar winning performance from someone that young. Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson were awesome. And Darth Maul is kick-ass cool. Oh, and Natalie Portman

Episode II is just misunderstood. Hayden Christensen's performance is probably one of the worst I've ever seen, but he has the right look to be Anakin. And Natalie Portman in white spandex

Now Episode III was the shiznite. Ewan's performance was awesome, we finally got to see the Emperor's wrath, and Hayden's performance was much better. And Natalie Portman

Most people who complain about the prequels grew up with the Originals. I didn't. I became a fan with Episode I. While I love the Originals, I'm a sucker for special effects and bad-ass villains and Natalie Portman. That's why I love the Prequels.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:33 AM

CAPTAINSHINY

An example of dialogue from ep #:

-"You're beautiful."
-"That's because I'm in love."
-"No, it's because I'm in love with you!"

-Stay Shiny
"The people who made the show, and the people who saw the show, which is roughly the same number of people, fell in love with it, a little bit too much to let it go, too much to lay down arms when when the battle looked pretty much lost. In Hollywood, people like that are called unrealistic, quixotic, obsessive... In my world, they're called Browncoats."
-Joss Whedon

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:50 AM

NUCLEARDAY

I think my problem, and possibly others, with the prequels, was not so much that I hated them, but more that I didn't LOVE them. ;p

It's hard to recreate the magic, I know. But I grew up in the 80's. I saw episodes V, and VI in theatres as a wee one (wasn't born for episode IV.) To say that Star Wars was somewhat... formative, would be an understatement.

I had tears welling up in my eyes when I saw episode one in theatres. From the very moment they did the cool scrolling plot summary thingy at the beginning. It just sort of went downhill from there for me, though.

Lucas just couldn't deliver for me what I'd been hyped-up to expect. I'd been hearing rumours of other Star Wars movies to come since I was potty-training, after all.

There were some really good parts. I thought the end to episode 3, was quite poignant. Anything with Palpatine in it was excellent, as well. (some reason I really liked his lines. "I'll be sure to keep a close eye on this one" (sp) And I thought Ewan McGregor was great as Obi-Wan.

My problem was that often I felt like I was liking the prequels simply because I felt I should, not due to their own merit. They're good movies, though. But it's like trying to rekindle a romance from a high-school crush. 20 years later and suddenly she's got bags under her eyes, missing teeth, 3 children, and a massive cocaine habit ;p

The prequels were good, just not STAR WARS good ;p

Oh, and Natalie Portman ;p

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:52 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonus:
Jake Lloyd was only like 8 years old. You can't expect an Oscar winning performance from someone that young. Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson were awesome. And Darth Maul is kick-ass cool. Oh, and Natalie Portman

Episode II is just misunderstood. Hayden Christensen's performance is probably one of the worst I've ever seen, but he has the right look to be Anakin. And Natalie Portman in white spandex

Now Episode III was the shiznite. Ewan's performance was awesome, we finally got to see the Emperor's wrath, and Hayden's performance was much better. And Natalie Portman

Most people who complain about the prequels grew up with the Originals. I didn't. I became a fan with Episode I. While I love the Originals, I'm a sucker for special effects and bad-ass villains and Natalie Portman. That's why I love the Prequels.

Gotta say I agree with you. I grew up with the originals, and I still love them, but I think of STAR WARS as a 6-part novel, and I enjoy all parts (and the Clone Wars cartoons) equally as chapters in a larger story.

Also, yeah, they have effects - so what? It's great that George can finally show us his worlds as he wants them to be seen. Star Wars (like Firefly) takes me to a wholly new and exciting universe, full of amazing details and characters, and with so much depth to it, I never got bored - always wanting to learn more and see what's around the next corner. I love to be dazzled, and it's no different now to how Star Wars was in the 70's - George has always tried to be cutting edge with his effects, and I don't have a problem with it.

As for the mushy love dialogue, I know how hard love dialogue is to write and pull off. Yet I also know strange and silly things some people in love say when talking to each other in real life - especially during the first few months of a new relationship. Why should Anakin be any different with his feelings? But in the grand scheme of things, nothing's prefect and it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the story or characters.

- quick edit just to say - they were really overhyped though!

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:07 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:

Episode 1 suffered (IMHO) because it was an introduction, and yeah maybe Jar Jar was a mistake (but he never got on my nerves as much as he did to some people) and Jake Lloyd was wooden as hell, but I love Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Episode 2 was brilliant, I felt George redeemed himself with that one (boy am I gotta get it for saying that - but that's just what I felt about it) - though I do fast-forward through the mushy Anakin/Padme scenes. And Episode 3 I really loved. Though I would have loved to have re-written some of the dialogue before hand.

I agree with you Simon B wholeheartedly
Even though I will always love the originals more, I do like the prequels too.
Episode 1 is not without its faults and, unlike the rest of films, I have to be in the right mood to watch it (mainly because of all the juvenile stuff). I really enjoyed it the first time I saw it, but unfortunately I can't rewatch it as frequently as I could the others.
Hearing young Anakin treat the end space battle like a video game ("Woohoo!" and "I'll try spinning, that's a neat trick") really does grate.

Episode 2, I think is great, and I enjoy it more than the original Star Wars - the only downside being the unbearably bad Padme and Anakin scenes. They're bad not because the actors are awful, but because of the terrible dialogue

Episode 3, if theres one major thing I could throw at it, is that so much is crammed in - surely with 3 movies at his disposal, Lucas could have spread the plotpoints throughout the trilogy - apart from introducing Anakin as a character, what does episode 1 do to set things up?
I also cringed at Palpatine's "No! No! No!" during his confrontation with Mace Windu and the almost spoofish line "NOOOOOOO!!!" from Darth at the end

Other than that, I loved the movies
(though upon reading that, you might not believe me)

For the record - I think Hayden Christensen IS a good actor, though you don't get many opportunities to see this in the star wars films, at least in episode 2.
However, there are some:
Anakin's dark side emerging at the Tusken Raider's camp, followed by his confession to Padme in episode 2
I think, despite the dialogue and minimalistic direction, he really came alive and proved how good an actor he was in episode 3

Nay-sayers who still disagree should check out his film Shattered Glass

-----
Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
-----
www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:17 AM

VITABRAND

This little post will show you how much I actually cared to pay attention to the prequals.

I don't know if it was the dialog in the script, but the kid they got playin Anikin / Vader in Ep3 sounded like a spoiled rich kid who's daddy didn't let him take the bentley out for a saturday night spin. Seemed to me that every word that came out of his mouth was whining just shy of a tantrum. I wanted to reach through the screen and throttle him until he quit moving and turned blue.. Ewan McGregor, fantastic as always.... but that kid playing Vader.. I'd die happy never to hear his voice again.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:34 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by NEEDY:

Hearing young Anakin treat the end space battle like a video game ("Woohoo!" and "I'll try spinning, that's a neat trick") really does grate...

...Episode 2...the unbearably bad Padme and Anakin scenes. They're bad not because the actors are awful, but because of the terrible dialogue

...apart from introducing Anakin as a character, what does episode 1 do to set things up?
I also cringed at Palpatine's "No! No! No!" during his confrontation with Mace Windu and the almost spoofish line "NOOOOOOO!!!" from Darth at the end

Yeah, I'd agree with those flaws. It was a spoofish line, and I too cringed at Palpatine's "No! No! No!" moment. That could have been better handled.

The ending of Episode III really got to me though - the death of Padme, and the end of the Jedi (especially Mace!!!!) Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura.

I also love the creative vision that goes into Star Wars - the beauty and artwork of the sets, landscapes, locations, costumes and designs.

Also, to respond to Vitabrand about Anakin's endless whining, I'd personally say it's part of the character (though sounds like it worked a little too well in making you wanna throttle him!) since he's meant to be becoming more impatient and arrogant as the films progress. But yeah, I think the dialogue was probably not helping. Hayden is a good actor, though (gotta say) at times he did seem more like a petulant teenager than someone consumed by darkness. But I still think he was the best choice for Anakin -he just looked and 'felt' right.

Still, in an ideal world, George Lucas would become a huge Firefly fan and would give Joss loads of money and the creative freedom to make Firefly as Joss wants it done (the way Lucas was able to 'liberate' Star Wars from outside control and make them how he wanted to)....

(Sorry, was I daydreaming again?)

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:42 AM

The real issue I have with Lucas on the whole is his made up BS about how he had this "planned from the begining". If you've looked up over the years what he's said about star wars being a long line of movies, it increasingly gets contradicted time and time again. Even the issue of the original trilogy being planned as such is a big debate with lucas lovers and lucas haters. Then there's the obvious: Continuity set up in the original series blown to hell by shoddy storytelling and deux ex machina style endings. There's making things up as you go along, and thats fine, when it turns out good, then there's pulling stuff out of your rear like whimsical creatures and musical numbers with blatent use of CGI for no apparent reason. Hats off to directors such as Peter Jackson who know when CGI can be effective and be a part of the story, instead of always going "OH SNAP LOOK AT THIS! IT'S UNREAL!"

CGI yoda will continue to bug the crap out of me for years to come.

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:57 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:

The ending of Episode III really got to me though - the death of Padme, and the end of the Jedi (especially Mace!!!!) Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura.

Yeah, like I said, believe it or not, I did like the prequels. The scene where all the Jedi get wiped out one by one and Yoda begins to feel them dying off is spectacular. I think John Williams to all the Star Wars films is great, but the soundtrack to Episode 3 is my favourite - I believe the track is Anakin's Betrayal during that scene.
The death of Padme... well is a bit touch-and-go for me (no jokes about me wanting to touch her and go). I thought it was nicely acted and all, but the line "She had lost the will to live" seems off (so she's just going to give up, despite her newborn babies?). I could have gone on and believed that its was Anakin's choking her that did it, but that line throws it all out.
Plus the continuity errors with Leia in Jedi saying she remembered her mother and that Obi-Wan in empire referred to Luke as "Our last hope" even though he was in the delivery room and knew full well about Leia.
Still these things can be explained I guess, and normally I'm not one to nit-pick at films (I do understand that they aren't real after all) but there you go

Quote:

Still, in an ideal world, George Lucas would become a huge Firefly fan and would give Joss loads of money and the creative freedom to make Firefly as Joss wants it done (the way Lucas was able to 'liberate' Star Wars from outside control and make them how he wanted to)....

(Sorry, was I daydreaming again?)

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

Hey, there's still the Star Wars tv series - if Joss feels like getting back into TV, there could be a partnership there. Hell, forget the partnership, just let Joss take over

-----
Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
-----
www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:59 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by V:

CGI yoda will continue to bug the crap out of me for years to come.

Remember, Remember the fifth of November

Whilst I admit that Lucas really overdid it with the CGI and blatantly showed it off instead of focussing on what really mattered, I felt the CGI Yoda was a good decision.
The puppet in Episode 1 just looked wrong, and Yoda just looked a lot better as a digital creation - plus, it gave us the opportunity to see him kick butt, something we'd never see the puppet do

-----
Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
-----
www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:08 AM

SIMONB

Personally, I don't think Leia's line about remembering her mother was a mistake - Leia is Force Sensitive and she was the last one taken out of the womb, so in mind mind she empathically picked up her mothers feelings, plus also she's looking back with her memories and feelings, and time can distort those perceptions. Ok, That's just my take on things, but it works for me. As for Luke being their last hope, at that stage he was the only one openly embracing the Jedi path or even aware that he had powers.

Plus, I don't think the prequels do disrupt the continuity that much....or perhaps I'm just good at rationalising things to make them fit. But it worked for me.

- also, yeah, they should have left out the "she's lost the will to live" line for Padme's end and should have left it as the Force-choke trauma that killed her.

Also, yeah - CGI yoda Rules!!!!!!

- quick edit - just to say I do believe you Needy when you say you love them, and it's cool to know there's someone else out there who feels the same! Was worried when I posted my comment earlier that I was signing my own death warrant! lol

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:22 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:
Personally, I don't think Leia's line about remembering her mother was a mistake - Leia is Force Sensitive and she was the last one taken out of the womb, so in mind mind she empathically picked up her mothers feelings, plus also she's looking back with her memories and feelings, and time can distort those perceptions. Ok, That's just my take on things, but it works for me. As for Luke being their last hope, at that stage he was the only one openly embracing the Jedi path or even aware that he had powers.

Plus, I don't think the prequels do disrupt the continuity that much....or perhaps I'm just good at rationalising things to make them fit. But it worked for me.

Yeah, I do tend to fill in the blanks too sometimes.
My thought though when I first heard that Padme dies during childbirth was that Leia must remember her adoptive mother, but I did hear something similar to your explanation before and thought that made a bit more sense - even if I do have the nagging feeling that Lucas didn't know that when he did Jedi, and now he is making excuses for himself, if we're not doing it for him.
The second bit, well I'll admit I threw in there. I didn't give it much thought in the first place but when I heard that point argued I thought "yeah, I suppose". I also heard that there is a contradiction with the twins, and who was born first - but I don't recall hearing whether Luke or Leia was older before, so I ignored it. Might have been in one of the novels.

If you're willing to hear something really take the mick out of Episode 3, then I recommend you listen to the "Abridged Script" http://www.geekson.com/audio/Star_Wars_Ep_3.mp3

You can read the script here: http://www.the-editing-room.com/?script=revengeofthesith though it's funnier to hear it acted out

Be warned though, theres a fair bit of bad language courtesy of Samuel L Mother****ing Jackson

-----
Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
-----
www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:44 AM

SIMONB

I think we are doing some of the work for him, yeah! lol

I guess it was tricky for George, having to write something that hit all markers he'd laid down in episodes 4-6 and keep it fresh and exciting whilst essentially making it up from scratch (I could be wrong, but the impression I got from the DVD extras is that he had a vague idea of the background, but nothing solid when he started) - so I guess some excuses and fudging on his part are only human.

I have no idea about the 'order of birth' for Luke and leia, but isn't it said in Star wars that 'continuity' of the novels is over-ridden by anything he states in the films? Or is that just me gibbering?

Thanks by the way for the Ep3 spoof! brilliant!

(also yeah, if there is a Star Wars TV show, they really should let Joss do one episode...or several....or all! I'd love to see what he comes up with. Bet it would be awesome, though probably half the characters we come to love will be killed in it....lol)

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:05 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:

I guess it was tricky for George, having to write something that hit all markers he'd laid down in episodes 4-6 and keep it fresh and exciting whilst essentially making it up from scratch (I could be wrong, but the impression I got from the DVD extras is that he had a vague idea of the background, but nothing solid when he started) - so I guess some excuses and fudging on his part are only human.

That was my understanding too as far as backstory goes
And to be fair, Lucas has had a rough time - he did after all have the weigh of trying to satisfy millions of fans from different generations whilst trying to appeal to a new generation all on his little shoulders

And to satisfy everyone would be impossible - if the wait for new movies had been 5 years it would have been bad enough but 16!
You can see it either way - for fans that had been waiting that long, then those films couldnt have possibly lived up to expectation, but then at the same time you're thinking, well if he's got 16 years, surely he could have made them close to perfect.

But like you said - he's only human. I still think though, that, even if he is the big boss, he could have had someone go over the dialogue and someone at his side helping with directing.
Yes he had Jonathan Hales polish up the scripts to 2 and 3 and I imagine having someone "helping out" may be considered more of a hinderence than help, but if you look at Empire and Jedi - both only had a story by Lucas, the actual scripts were written by others as was the directing.
And IMO, they were far better than Star Wars

Well I've rambled long enough

As for the novels, you're right - the movies are the definitive story, and novels merely elaborate (though are not necessarily official)

-----
Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
-----
www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:13 AM

SIMONB

Was gonna put a quote from you in to this reply, but it'd be me copying the whole thing, so why bother? lol

Just to say, couldn't have said it better myself! (bows to Needy)

It's not a job I would have wanted - making new Star wars and trying to keep everyone happy (hmmm, no pressure!) and also, the fans of the originals themselves have aged since they were kids - they would have grown up with Star Wars, so their perceptions of what Star Wars is will have grown and changed with them.

Still, as you said, he needed to get someone to help with his scripting!

Anyway, I've rambled on long enough too. But it's good to know there are others out there who like the prequels to (can get awful lonely out in the black....) lol

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:22 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

LOL

We are definitely in the minority, us lovers of prequels, but the next generation will grow up with them being the first step into SW

My sister for instance is 18 now, and so grew up with me and my brother watching the movies, but never liked them herself.
But she liked the prequels a lot, and so the last time the originals were on Tv (either just before or after Sith came out) she watched them with an open mind and now she likes them too.

...

Just a little tale I thought I'd bore you with

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Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:26 AM

SIMONB

Much 'preciated, thank you.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:48 AM

SADLITTLEKING

I really didn't care for the prequels. Thought Episode I was an okay start. I enjoyed the Podrace scene and Darth Maul was so badass. The only reason I own the movie on DVD is for the lightsaber duels. Ray Park is awesome and he makes Liam and Ewan look better (as do their stunt doubles). I found that last duel with Maul fighting Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to be the best fight of the series. Killing Maul was the worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Imagine if, when he knocked Obi-Wan down into that chasm, some Palace guards start firing on him from a distance, making him go for a quick escape (he assumes his side lost and makes a tactical retreat). Then in Episode II, we get a great, passion-filled rematch between him and Obi-Wan. IMO, it would've been better to keep Maul around instead of bringing in the boring Count Dooku (worst name ever).

Episode II, I just couldn't stand. Bad dialog, mundane plot, the Jedi look dumb (Obi-Wan can't figure out that someone deleted a planet from the database, Dooku tells Obi-Wan who Darth Sidious is and the Jedi don't even consider it for one moment

), Anakin is a whiny brat who looks more like Boy Band Vader than a serious Padawan in training, and to top it all off, Obi-Wan is in a diner. A diner! This is not Star Wars. It's some practical joke Lucas was playing on people. At least, that's what I thought when the movie was over. I was actually sitting in the theater with my head in my hands as the credits were rolling by. I was stunned at how awful the movie was. Also, I hated seeing Yoda fighting. It looked ridiculous and just wasn't necessary. Yoda, to me, should be a figure of wisdom. Someone who, in his younger years, was a fighter, but now doesn't fight because he knows he doesn't need to. We should never have seen Yoda fighting. It should've stayed implied that he was a great warrior. Honestly, the only scene I actually liked from Episode II was the Obi-Wan/Jango Fett battle in the rain. That was cool. I hated the space battle, though. Little Boba was so annoying. "Get him, father!" Shut up. Please.

Episode III was actually pretty cool. I liked Anakin's look. Palpatine was a great villian up until he became deformed and started cackling far too much. I liked how he seduced Anakin into switching to the Dark Side. I just liked the movie. I thought the Darth Vader scene at the end was cheesey and should've been left out, though. Oh and a Jar Jar death scene would've been much appreciated.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the prequels. I didn't go into them with any expectations. I'm not a Star Wars fan although I'd seen the Trilogy a few times growing up and I thought they were good films with some very memorable scenes. Sadly, all I found memorable about the prequels were Darth Maul and Natalie Portman.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:51 AM

OTMA

Quote:
Originally posted by NEEDY:
Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:

The ending of Episode III really got to me though - the death of Padme, and the end of the Jedi (especially Mace!!!!) Ki-Adi Mundi and Aayla Secura.

The death of Padme... well is a bit touch-and-go for me (no jokes about me wanting to touch her and go). I thought it was nicely acted and all, but the line "She had lost the will to live" seems off (so she's just going to give up, despite her newborn babies?). I could have gone on and believed that its was Anakin's choking her that did it, but that line throws it all out.
Quote:

I don't know if this is supported by actual Star Wars canon, not being that deeply involved in it, but my take on that scene is that they were wrong. It wasn't that she had lost the will to live, but rather, that Palpatine was stealing her life force in order to save Darth Vader. Her despair simply would have made that easier for him to do. Padme's death, at his own hands, after the promise of immortality had been falsely dangled in front of him, was the final essential step in Anakin's corruption, and Palpatine used the opportunity well.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:01 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by otma:

I don't know if this is supported by actual Star Wars canon, not being that deeply involved in it, but my take on that scene is that they were wrong. It wasn't that she had lost the will to live, but rather, that Palpatine was stealing her life force in order to save Darth Vader. Her despair simply would have made that easier for him to do. Padme's death, at his own hands, after the promise of immortality had been falsely dangled in front of him, was the final essential step in Anakin's corruption, and Palpatine used the opportunity well.

Hmm, sounds like a possible explanation... if there was any indication to support it.
So was this hinted at in one of the novels or is this just your understanding?
It does sound like a pretty good idea, and I certainly wouldn't put it past Palpatine to do something like that

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:08 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by SadLittleKing:
I really didn't care for the prequels. Thought Episode I was an okay start. I enjoyed the Podrace scene and Darth Maul was so badass. The only reason I own the movie on DVD is for the lightsaber duels.....Killing Maul was the worst idea in the history of bad ideas.

Episode II, I just couldn't stand. Bad dialog, mundane plot, the Jedi look dumb (Obi-Wan can't figure out that someone deleted a planet from the database, Dooku tells Obi-Wan who Darth Sidious is and the Jedi don't even consider it for one moment ...This is not Star Wars. It's some practical joke Lucas was playing on people. At least, that's what I thought when the movie was over. I was actually sitting in the theater with my head in my hands as the credits were rolling by...Episode III was actually pretty cool. I liked Anakin's look. Palpatine was a great villian up until he became deformed and started cackling far too much. I liked how he seduced Anakin into switching to the Dark Side. I just liked the movie. I thought the Darth Vader scene at the end was cheesey and should've been left out, though. Oh and a Jar Jar death scene would've been much appreciated.

Fair enough (and yeah, Maul was cool though I liked Dooku and would have loved to have seen more of him). It's very true what someone said on another thread (which was about there being nothing good on TV) - that one man's quality is another man's crap. (and hey, if we all liked the same stuff, this would be one gorram boring 'verse we live in).

I suppose another part of the problem is defining just what is Star Wars? I bet half a dozen people would give you half a dozen different answers. I guess we all go into this for different reasons and want something different from the experience.

"you all got on this boat for different reasons..."

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:36 AM

OTMA

Quote:
Originally posted by NEEDY:

Hmm, sounds like a possible explanation... if there was any indication to support it.
So was this hinted at in one of the novels or is this just your understanding?
It does sound like a pretty good idea, and I certainly wouldn't put it past Palpatine to do something like that

I don't remember the specific dialogue or scenes, since I only saw the movie once in the theatre and once on DVD months ago, but I got the impression from the movie that it would be possible to do something like that. That's why I'm not sure if there is any hard evidence to support it, but it seems to hold together better than simply saying that she "lost her will to live"
After all, she was willing to leave Anakin when he had become evil, even though it hurt her to do it, and she was generally a stronger and more stable person than he was. If anything, one would have expected Anakin to lose the will to live, once his combat adrenaline and crushing hatred had abated. Palpatine would have had to do something to keep him alive through the painful (and likely, needlessly and deliberately so, given advanced medical facilities) surgery to graft on his cybernetics and save his life.
Palpatine created the empire by manipulating the weak (Jar Jar, Anakin) and destroying the strong (The Jedi, Padme)
The one thing that puzzles me more about the third prequel is why Yoda gave up and ran from Palpatine to go into exile so quickly. He didn't seem to be losing the fight decisively at that point.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:41 AM

NEEDY

The road to Hel is paved with good intentions

Quote:
Originally posted by otma:

I don't remember the specific dialogue or scenes, since I only saw the movie once in the theatre and once on DVD months ago, but I got the impression from the movie that it would be possible to do something like that. That's why I'm not sure if there is any hard evidence to support it, but it seems to hold together better than simply saying that she "lost her will to live"
After all, she was willing to leave Anakin when he had become evil, even though it hurt her to do it, and she was generally a stronger and more stable person than he was. If anything, one would have expected Anakin to lose the will to live, once his combat adrenaline and crushing hatred had abated. Palpatine would have had to do something to keep him alive through the painful (and likely, needlessly and deliberately so, given advanced medical facilities) surgery to graft on his cybernetics and save his life.
Palpatine created the empire by manipulating the weak (Jar Jar, Anakin) and destroying the strong (The Jedi, Padme)
The one thing that puzzles me more about the third prequel is why Yoda gave up and ran from Palpatine to go into exile so quickly. He didn't seem to be losing the fight decisively at that point.

I'll have to watch it again as it has been a while since I watched it. Though it wouldn't be such a bizarre thing if I missed that - I didn't notice till later the subtle hint that was given regarding the origin of Anakin's miraculous birth.
In the opera house scene, Palpatine tells Anakin of a Sith lord so powerful that he could influence the midichlorians to create life - so that explains how Anakin's mother could become pregnant without a man.

The Yoda retreat is a bit of an odd one, I agree with you there
Some warrior *pfft*

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Needy. Male Companion a.k.a. First Boy Whore of Destiny
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www.myspace.com/needsalt

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:21 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by otma:

The one thing that puzzles me more about the third prequel is why Yoda gave up and ran from Palpatine to go into exile so quickly. He didn't seem to be losing the fight decisively at that point.

This is explained a little bit in the novel which was based on George Lucas' original screenplay. Yoda has an insight (forgive me if I garble this abit, I read it months ago) that he cannot beat Sidious directly. The Sith have evolved since the old days of the Sith Wars - they have adapted and changed their ways, whilst the Jedi have become stagnant and continue to train as though they are still back in the old days. He realises that he cannot defeat Sidious, only the Chosen One can stop the Sith (which is what Anakin does once he is redeemed by his son*) though some have said that they see Luke as being the Chosen One who brings balance.

(*as reportedly quoted by George Lucas in an interview I confess I haven't myself seen).

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:48 AM

MATTCOZ

Quote:
Originally posted by sazman:
Seriously, everyone is so polite it's like attending an etiquitte class.

That's the way it is in the Republic, before the dark times, before the Empire.

Quote:
Originally posted by Vitabrand:
I don't know if it was the dialog in the script, but the kid they got playin Anikin / Vader in Ep3 sounded like a spoiled rich kid who's daddy didn't let him take the bentley out for a saturday night spin. Seemed to me that every word that came out of his mouth was whining just shy of a tantrum.

Certainly sounds like the father of Luke. "But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters."

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:18 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by sazman:
Certainly sounds like the father of Luke. "But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters."

Yeah, Luke was a bit whiny to begin with, wasn't he?:

LUKE: But it's a whole 'nother year.

OWEN: Look, it's only one more season.

LUKE: Yeah, that's what you said last year when Biggs and Tank left.

AUNT BERU: Where are you going?

LUKE: It looks like I'm going nowhere. I have to finish cleaning those droids.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:47 AM

SIMONWHO

There were a lot of mistakes made with the prequels, the most obvious being the lack of humour. I'm not necessarily saying there had to be Serenity levels of one liners but two laughs a movie (and for the record, Jar Jar did nothing even remotely funny throughout. The only possibility was if he fell into a jet engine in Episode III and that didn't happen so...) does not do it for what are supposed to be fun action films.

The extra danger is that if the audience isn't given funny bits, they'll start to see them when they aren't there. I was at a very early showing of Ep II, pretty much Star Wars fans only, and the scene with Anakin in bed, him sweating, shaking about, his hand under the covers... you could feel the audience starting to titter and then he uttered the immortal line "Mother!". Brought the house down. Which in turn led to us laughing when he was with his dying mother.

There's no shame in "only" having a few great movies in you. But sometimes you need to learn to leave things alone.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:57 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
There were a lot of mistakes made with the prequels, the most obvious being the lack of humour. I'm not necessarily saying there had to be Serenity levels of one liners but two laughs a movie (and for the record, Jar Jar did nothing even remotely funny throughout. The only possibility was if he fell into a jet engine in Episode III and that didn't happen so...) does not do it for what are supposed to be fun action films.

I won't disagree that the originals had more of a sense of rogue-ish fun about them (mostly supplied by Han and his character dynamic was something that I loved about episodes 4-6) ...but ultimately I think it boils down to what I said before and what someone else already said in a different thread - one man's quality is another man's crap. I really like the prequels and I still rate 'em up there with the originals, but that's just my opinion, and this is yours. We're just gonna have to agree to differ.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:31 PM

SINGATE

I've heard a lot of people complain about how whiny Hayden seemed in the last two movies. I think everyone has glossed over the fact that Anakin was whiny because he was never satisfied with what he had. A lot of his problems stem from the fact that he believes the Jedi are keeping secrets from him and holding him back.

He was freed from slavery and given a golden opportunity to become a guardian of justice and peace in the galaxy (A nod to Obi-Wan in episode IV). Instead he becomes greedy and obsessive to the point of commiting terrible atrocities. You would think that being the chosen one, destined to be the most powerful Jedi ever, would be enough. Even he recognizes this in ROTS as evidenced by the line: "I'm not the Jedi I should be...I want more and I know I shouldn't". Sorry if didn't get that exactly right.

On a completely different note did anyone think Lucas was capable of creating such a dark film as ROTS after giving us the likes of Ewoks and Jar Jar?

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 1:07 PM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:
I've heard a lot of people complain about how whiny Hayden seemed in the last two movies. I think everyone has glossed over the fact that Anakin was whiny because he was never satisfied with what he had. A lot of his problems stem from the fact that he believes the Jedi are keeping secrets from him and holding him back.

He was freed from slavery and given a golden opportunity to become a guardian of justice and peace in the galaxy (A nod to Obi-Wan in episode IV). Instead he becomes greedy and obsessive to the point of commiting terrible atrocities. You would think that being the chosen one, destined to be the most powerful Jedi ever, would be enough. Even he recognizes this in ROTS as evidenced by the line: "I'm not the Jedi I should be...I want more and I know I shouldn't". Sorry if didn't get that exactly right.

Good points.

Quote:
On a completely different note did anyone think Lucas was capable of creating such a dark film as ROTS after giving us the likes of Ewoks and Jar Jar?

Guess the Ewoks are unloved as well, then? lol - I never had much of a problem with them, but I think that's because I was pretty young when they came along, so they've been with me most of my life and I'm just used to them being part of ROTJ.

I wonder if he'd put something like the Ewoks in the new film and I came across them for the first time now as an adult, would I feel the same way? It's an interesting question I'd never really thought of before.

Ep3 was certainly dark, you're right, especially when Anakin bursts into flame! I was surprised with how dark that moment was for a Star Wars movie.
_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

Good quote! (bows to Singate) Ia! Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:10 PM

ROLAND19

Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
Quote:
"But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters."

Dude, you actually know how to spell "Tosche"? That's kinda weird.

No offense.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:45 PM

JONUS

Shattered Glass was great. People should also check out 'Life as a House'. It's an outstanding film.

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 6:52 PM

ORPHEUS

I really hate calling myself a prequel apologist, but I really did kinda love Episode 1. At least, enough so that I can forgive things like Jake Lloyd being annoying, Gungans being a completely useless race, etc. It's easier for me to watch Phantom Menace as it's own movie rather than as the first part in the Star Wars story. But the thing is, it's not it's own movie, and that's the only thing that I think brings it down. It has to stand up to the golden standard set by the original trilogy, and it just can't.

As far as Attack of the Clones goes, it would be a perfect movie if the whole Anakin/Padme subplot had been reduced, or even played down. Plus, why even include Boba Fett at all? Jango Fett I have no problem with, but why completely destroy the backstory that the expanded universe writers have set for Boba? Just because he's George Lucas, he thinks he can break whatever continuity he wants, regardless of what the fans think?

And for all the grandiosity that Revenge of the Sith gave us, would a proofreading of the script have been THAT painful?

____________________
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

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Sunday, March 12, 2006 8:33 PM

MATTCOZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland19:
Quote:
Originally posted by mattcoz:
"But I was going into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters."
Dude, you actually know how to spell "Tosche"? That's kinda weird.
No offense.

Heh, I'd like to take credit for that, but I looked it up.

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Monday, March 13, 2006 5:42 AM

CYBERSNARK

[SHAMELESS PLUG]
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=8&t=16704
[/PLUG]

I'm unabashedly critical of Ep III, moreso than either of the other two prequels. RotS is just bad.

I'm not just saying that as a fan of the original, I'm saying it as a fan of movies in general. I mean, even compared to the other movies of the franchise, this has so many "break my suspension of disbelief" moments.

Did the other movies have gravity in space? No (check out ESB, with the Falcon perched near-vertically on the back of the Star Destroyer: Han and the Falcon's passengers were able to remain fully upright). Was Ian McDiarmid's performance so TOtally OVER-the-top and HIS-TRI-ON-IC in any of the others? No (check out RotJ, where he plays Palpatine's menace straight and understated --controlled and deliberate in his movements and gestures. His performance in TPM and AotC? The same even, controlled calculation. RotS is an anomaly).

And the CGI in general was horrendously overdone. Understand, I'm not bashing CGI in general, but a good movie blends both CGI (for long-range action and stunts) and live-action animatronics (for close-ups). There should've been an animatronic Grievous for the in-close stuff, instead of the CGI model's constant pantomime and cartoonish hand-wringing (if he'd had a mustache, he'd have been twirling it). Same with Yoda: the walking/foghting is one thing, but when he's just sitting in his chair, the puppet has more realistic facial expressions ("realistic" does not mean "mobile" --when was the last time you spoke to someone who was constantly pulling Jim Carrey-esque facial contortions?).

The lact of sets and costumes didn't help anyone's acting.

There's also Anakin's too-fast turn to the Dark Side --I could almost hear a switch being flipped. I wanted to see a slow transition as he became Palpatine's apprentice, not a Jekyll & Hyde insta-morph.

Don't forget Grievous' falling victim to "bad guy syndrome," whereby a hyper-competent and highly-trained/skilled warrior can get mowed down by a less-competent hero for no other reason than that he's the bad guy (compare the Jaffa from SG-1 with the stormtroopers in the original SW trilogy for a "control" example). Check out the Clone Wars cartoons to see Grievous dealing with five Jedi and a squad of elite ARCtroopers. The guy's dangerous.

And there's the way it manages to retroactively ruin even the original trilogy. The original movies draw almost all of their impact from the revelation of Luke's parentage and the presence of his sister. These hit Luke like a ton of bricks, and they must hit the audience the same way (it's the only thing that forgives the mediocre acting and dated effects).

Episode III instead telegraphs that Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader, and he (Darth Vader) has two children: Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa.

Finally, Lucas himself comes across in interviews and behind-the-scenes material as being the anti-Joss and something of a jerk. He admits that he doesn't write good dialogue, but implies that we (the viewers --the people who made him famous to begin with) aren't worth the effort it would take to get a proofreader. He also seems to (admittedly, gently) bash actors in general, saying how he'd prefer to do a fully digital film, with no real actors (and their inevitable "flaws" --like not being able to always nail the scene in their first take).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, March 13, 2006 4:52 PM

LANCER

ok ok ok, the movies where shallow but wernt super awful, I have a problem with the end to EVERY prequel fight scene, Obi vs Maul end was lame, even though it was a super fight the end product was terrible, Mace vs Jango was the worst end of all, after how he faught Obi and even killed that beast it was a sick and discusting way to end it. Dooku vs Anikin was bad, he like outa nowhere wins even though him and Obi where losing befiore the knockout. Obi vs Grevious...i aint gona go their, lastly Ani vs Obi was a great fight, but with a terrible end, why didnt Anikin jump higher? is he that much of an idiot?

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Monday, March 13, 2006 6:18 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI

My main problem with the Star Wars prequel trilogy is that it completely humped up continuity in several places:

1. Why does Obi-Wan not remember R2-D2 in ANH, despite the fact that R2 was around him frequently in the prequels?

2. Why does Owen Lars not even remotely remember C-3PO, despite the fact that he had lived with him for TEN RUTTIN' YEARS in AOTC?!?

3. Leia remembers her mother and Luke doesn't in ROTJ, despite the fact that they were only with their mother for a few seconds, and LUKE spent the most time with his mother, not Leia. If anyone should even faintly remember their mother, it should be Luke.

4. Obi-Wan's line in ESB of: "That boy is our last hope." What? But didn't Obi-Wan witness the birth of Leia as well?

5. Obi-Wan's ESB line of "You will go to Dagobah. There you will learn from Yoda - the Jedi Master who instructed me." What? I thought Qui-Gon did. Now, I understand that Yoda trains every Jedi at a young age, but Obi-Wan says THE Jedi master who instructed him.

BTW cybersnark, in ROTS, they were in the upper atmosphere of Coruscant. That's why there was some gravity.

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Monday, March 13, 2006 6:32 PM

JONUS

I think George Lucas is a fantastic writer but a horrible director. Actors need good direction. Look at Natalie Portman - she's a terrific actress but she didn't shine in Star Wars. Hayden Christensen - everyone thinks he's a atrocious actor. But watch 'Life as a House' or 'Shattered Glass' and he's very good. Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson and Samuel L. Jackson still did great jobs because they already have 10+ years of experience. It's the younger actors that need direction and Lucas simply can't direct his way out of a wet paper bag. I'll admit he did a terrific job on 'A New Hope' but he had to have gone senile over the 16-year break between Episodes VI and I. Jar Jar? Midi-chlorians? Darth Maul getting whacked and replaced by an 80-year-old Sith? Jango dying after being in only one movie? No Qui-Gon in Episode III?

I'm a Jedi.
I'm a Ringer.
I'm a BROWNCOAT.

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Monday, March 13, 2006 6:35 PM

N0SKILLZ

I have to say that video sucked. But it is Georges Fault. They just should of had Joss do them. Woulda been much better! Just like X3 would be if Joss got to write and/or direct. Not thats its not gonna be cool, just not live up to the last 2

-------------------------------

RAF Lakenheath

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Monday, March 13, 2006 7:20 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI

Quote:
They just should of had Joss do them. Woulda been much better!

Hell yeah!

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Monday, March 13, 2006 9:18 PM

CHRISPV

I advocate starting an immediate cloning program so that we might have dozens, nay hundreds of Josses in Hollywood so that they can do every film produced.

Just imagine, Michael Bay becomes a thing of the past, like polio or smallpox...

Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal, Fox!

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