Research Question by J00

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Research Question

POSTED BY: J00
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:57
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Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:00 AM

Hey y'all,

I am a college student taking a TV analysis and Criticism class and I'm trying to gain a perspective from the Firefly fan community of how we judged "Serentity". What I'm interested to know is who of you were avid fans of Firefly before the movie came out, and what your immediate criticisms of the movie, as far as character, story, style, etc. And also I'd like to get the critisisms of those who became fans from the movie and then started watching the episodes. Also, what do you all think is a true fan of Firefly? Thank you for taking the time to read this and I'd be equally, if not more thankful if you found the time to respond.

Peace,
Mike

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:28 AM

JYA

Well, I'll be brave and go first. I started watching Firefly when it was airing on Fox. When the DVD's came out I bought them right away. The movie was great and I loved every second of it. With that said, I'm still sad that we couldn't get the whole Firefly story. A TV series gives you a more complete look at the 'verse Joss created. There is just so much to the story that is impossible to see in a 2 hour movie.

As for what makes a "true fan", I'm not sure. Fan seems like too tame a word to me. I know it's short for fanatic, which is a bit closer. When I talk about it, I don't say I'm a fan. I just say I'm a Browncoat, which seems to cover it all. I think a Browncoat is someone who has gone beyond enjoying the shows and has immersed themselves into this new 'verse. It's when you think beyond the stories you are shown to the untold stories that exist only in this made-up world before you. It's what makes Star Trek fans into Trekkies. It's what makes Star Wars fans blind to the fact that eps 1&2 actually sucked.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:37 AM

RACH

Hey Mike

The movie was loaned to me by a flatmate. Always loved Buffy, never really got into Angel and was somewhat sceptical about the sci fi/Western idea. But I watched it. Then I watched it again. Then I stood over another flatmate's shoulder as he watched. Then I downloaded the series from the original flatmate's computer and watched them over 3 nights when I should have been revising/sleeping. Then I watched a couple of them again. Then I ordered 2 boxsets, one for my brother's birthday and one for myself. And watched it all again.

I recently revisited the movie for the first time after having seen the series, and was amazed at (a)how much richer it all seemed now and (b)how incredibly rich it had seemed in the first place without having seen the series.

For me, it's about 3 things. Firstly, the humour. There's a lack of sentimentality in it; a dramatic premise that's then promptly undercut. That humanises it. Secondly, the relationships. All so, so finely drawn, all so believable and frequently heartwrenching. The storylines nearly (and I said NEARLY) become incidental (that may be a big part as to why people love, rather than merely like it). Finally, the complexity of the individual characters and the world in which they live (not to mention the language. Learnin' to say 'ain't' is a whole world of fun).

Read some of the other threads; the debates on everything from faith to sex to big damn guns. Read the other threads generally; they'll tell you what you want to know.

(Actually, there's a fourth point; Mal's ass. Don't call him ol Sexybum for nothin'.)

I don't do fandom: I've never posted on a fansite before and I don't really watch that much TV. Certainly no other show has grabbed me as much since I watched X Files when I was 12. A huge part of the appeal of this for me is that it was just a really great show that got a raw deal, and there is the potential to do something about it. The work done by elder fans was amazing; they basically got a movie made (well, I suspect Whedon had something to do with it too). So the possibility of action is also quite seductive.

What makes a fan? Ah, you'd need more experienced heads than mine to tell you. I'm just the rawest of recruits. Enthusiasm would certainly seem to play a part.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:54 PM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by J00:
Hey y'all,

I am a college student taking a TV analysis and Criticism class and I'm trying to gain a perspective from the Firefly fan community of how we judged "Serentity". What I'm interested to know is who of you were avid fans of Firefly before the movie came out, and what your immediate criticisms of the movie, as far as character, story, style, etc.

I was one who watched (most of) the original broadcasts and have been a fan since day 1.

My first reaction to the movie was pretty complex. I was overjoyed at having the chance to revisit the 'verse, and stunned at the film's sustained pace and intensity. Like many other fans, I was sad about the character deaths and a bit shocked by the way one of them, in particular, occurred.

Unlike some, I thought the movie was faithful to the series in terms of character. A couple things were a bit jarring -- Simon as River's rescuer and demotion from "crew" to passenger. I do understand the reasons for those changes, though. Joss had a very daunting task in making the movie accessible to "virgins" without alienating the fan base.

The toughest loss for me was that the movie didn't portray one of the things I love about the series: the growing sense of family that ties the crew together. Again, I understand the reason this was sacrificed; the pacing of an action film doesn't allow for leisurely scenes around the dinner table. Of course, Joss did give us some wonderful substitutes, like River and Simon in the cargo locker.

In short, Serenity is, and had to be, a different animal than Firefly, simply because of the different medium. But with that said, unlike at least a few Browncoats, I think Serenity is an excellent movie and a worthy follow-up to Firefly.

But, by the same token, it's not enough. Not nearly enough. We Browncoats will never rest until we get our Big Damn Heroes back!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:31 PM

DEEPGIRL187

I became a fan before the movie, but after the show. In terms of the movie, the only critcism I have is that the scenes that were deleted really should have been in the film. They were really too important to character development to leave out. As far as the fans that were influenced more by the BDM go, I don't think there's anything to criticize. A Browncoat's a Browncoat, and we need all the flans we can get. The one thing that makes a person a fan is their willingness to believe. When they join up means little and nothing.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:50 PM

RMMC

Hi Mike,

Well, I watched Firefly when the network-which-shall-remain-nameless di their half-assed job of showing the series and loved it from the start.
With Serenity, several things came to mind. While Joss did a hell of a job compacting a season and a half into a two hour movie, I kinda wished for a bit more characterization, especially for Inara and Book. I may be in the minority here, but I frankly wish Joss hadn't cut most of the scenes with Inara. I think a bit more expansion of her character should have been warrented. I understand why he had to, as there's just no way that amount of time could be compressed and still get in everything we came to love from the series since TV shows have considerably more time to get characterization in as they've got in the 14 episodes (which is approx 10 hours) vs. 2 hours for the BDM.
The same for

Select to view spoiler:

Book, so as to give the audience more time to get to know his character before his death and to see a bit more why his death effects mal as much as it does.

We who watched the show may have know, but the first time viewer would have had a bit harder of a time picking that up.
The movie itself made me laugh with the wonderful unexpected funny dialogue; wince with pain at the physical abuse the crew took; cry in anguish at the crew's losses; and to cheer with them when possible.
I also wanted a rolled-up sock to throw at Joss's name in the credit...

this is a good thing. If I want to throw a sock at his name, he's done a great job and probably did something that I never saw coming. It usually involves someone going *pifft* unfortunately. (I know it's weird, but as a Buffy and Angel fan prior to the show, I've kinda gotten used to his torturing his fan bases in a good way.

The Buffy list I was on would frequently say after a paticularly angst-ridden eps, "Ave Joss, you bastard.")
I think the a true Firefly fan is anyone who loves the show and/or the BDM and considers themselves to be a fan, because I just can't see negating someone as not being a true fan because they do or don't do something. Whether or not one is a fan of something depends on how that individual sees themself, not how others do. To put it more simply (yeah I know--too late!

): it ain't my call and I don't think it's anyone else's either.

Does that make sense? if not, buzz me and I'll try to straighten my brain out to explaim myself more coherently.

****
RMMC

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:56 PM

NUCLEARDAY

What, like I'm going to pass up a chance to talk about myself? I think not

Technically, I've been a fan of the show since it aired on Fox. But I wasn't able to catch most of the episodes, and when I heard it was cancelled I sort of pushed it to the back of my mind. (Too much pain, and I've been known to get emotionally attached to shows in the past only to have them cancelled on me.)

Serenity really seemed to wake something up in me, though. What made me put on the Browncoat. So there really ain't anything bad I could say about the BDM. It's certainly a different animal, and some of the focus had to shift a bit from the crew as a whole to Mal and River. And I do miss some of the 'family' feel to the series, the little moments, etc. But I still get pretty emotional watching it, which is something movies do a bit better than television.

Give me a Big Damn Trilogy, and I'll call it a win. But for frell's sake, give me the series back after we've had our blockbuster hits :)

For me, a true fan of Firefly is anyone that decides to call themselves a Browncoat. What we need now is numbers. Also, like a previous poster said about the Trekkies. If it moves you in some way, if you 'get it,' then your coat is brown.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:06 PM

CARTOON

While I'd seen ads for "Firefly" contemporaneously to its airing, I never watched it. Then I saw the trailer for "Serenity" and immediately decided to see it, having no idea is was in any way related to the show I'd never watched.

The day before "Serenity" was released here, they had a marathon of "Firefly" on SciFi, which I watched, and thoroughly enjoyed. I only saw 3 or 4 episodes that day, the day before I saw "Serenity", but I enjoyed the show, too.

And, to this day, "Serenity" is the only film I've watched 5 times in 3 days (with the DVD).

I can't say what would comprise a "true" fan. Anyone who joins a show's online forum, however, has to have more than just a casual interest in the show.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:09 PM

JOSSISAGOD

I was an immediate "Flan" from day one. I have no criticism of the Serenity, both it and Firefly were PERFECT! I would diffine a "true" fan as, someone who enjoyed Serenity and firefly enough to know that the movie and the show were uniquely great, as apposed to all the other crud on TV and in movies these days.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:12 PM

RIVERGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by J00:
Hey y'all,

I am a college student taking a TV analysis and Criticism class and I'm trying to gain a perspective from the Firefly fan community of how we judged "Serentity". What I'm interested to know is who of you were avid fans of Firefly before the movie came out,

ME ME ME

and what your immediate criticisms of the movie, as far as character, story, style, etc.

character deaths ~ but I understood them

Also, what do you all think is a true fan of Firefly?

anyone who loves the show

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I'd be equally, if not more thankful if you found the time to respond.

Peace,
Mike

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:31 PM

J00

Thanks for all the attention folks. This is really good stuff. Keep it coming!

Mike

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:40 PM

CATHERA

[QUOTE}Give me a Big Damn Trilogy, and I'll call it a win. But for frell's sake, give me the series back after we've had our blockbuster hits :)

B]

Frell huh? Farscape fan I see.

Anyhow as to the questions.

I saw the trailer for Firefly way back when and being a fan of SciFi watched it. I don't think I saw all the eps that were released due to the station changing days because some I remember and some I don't. But I loved it back then and know I at least tried to find it. I think part of the problem is I had just graduated college and gotten engaged so most of my time was spent planning a Renaissance wedding (yes really at a Ren faire and all).

When I saw the preview for the movie (because I lost touch with the show and didn't know about this site) I KNEW without a doubt it was from the series. I couldn't convince my husband to see it. He was working nights then and didn't watch the series with me. I had to rent it unfortunately. He liked the movie and was hooked by the show once he saw one ep on the SciFi marathon (so easy to convert).

The series was great because it explored things in ways we don't really see now. Truth be told I didn't realize it was a western. Obviously that wasn't a problem because I still love the show now that I've realized it (duh).

The movie was great because I had missed those characters so much. This was the first show I really got upset about being canceled and where I kept hoping it would come back. The movie gave them to me again, at least for a while for some. Even though I saw the movie before revisiting the series, I remembered as each charater spoke certain ways, that they were like that. I was in love in five seconds. (we may experience some turbulence and then explode.) But I didn't like how Simon was a passenger again and not crew, like in ... drawing a blank at the name and I just watched it. Otherwise I liked how it explained much of what happened with River and Simon and tied up that part. And we finally got to see Reavers.

Not much else about the movie upset me except that it was over way too soon.

I am ready to solicit Joss to get it back if that's what it takes.

As for being a true fan. Anyone who talks about it lovingly and recruits more browncoats. If not on here then at least to the show and movie.

Under a Blag Flag We Shall Sail

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:46 PM

RHYIANAN

I watched a few episodes on fox, but when it was cancelled I kinda forgot about it. Then someone told me there was a firefly movie coming out and I realized I couldn't remember anything from the series. So I rented the dvds and watched them, bringing back memories and discovering the episodes that I had missed. Immediately, I wanted more.

Unfortunately, I was very disappointed with Serenity. The continuity problems got to me, as did the fact that at the beginning of the movie, it seems like the only characters that are acting true to the series are Zoe and River. Add the character deaths to that and I wasn't very happy. However, I still bought the dvd and upon further viewing I began to enjoy the movie. It's still flawed, but it's better than nothing.

I believe a "true" fan is anyone that enjoyed the series and/or movie that feels they can call themselves a fan.

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:46 PM

EMBERS

Hi Mike:
I was already a fan of Joss Whedon's BtVS, so when Firefly started showing on Fox I watched and taped every episode (which wasn't easy to do...it was frequently delayed until after the game was over).
I wasn't a huge fan at first, but once I saw 'Jaynestown' I was swept away by the metaphor, characterizations, fun, and excitement of this amazing series.
I didn't join this site until after the Firefly DVDs came out, but I was already a huge fan.

I saw 'Serenity' at the May 5th Advanced screening and I was beside myself with excitement, which was enhanced by being in a full theater packed with people who were as big of fans as I am.
I absolutely loved 'Serenity' - I wouldn't have criticized anything...except maybe it was almost too exciting. I sobbed into my scarf, and then laughed out loud in the next breath. Of course I would have been satisfied with 2 hours of the crew sitting and talking around the dinner table, but I recognized that Joss needed to do more than that.

I wasn't complaining about any of the pain & death because I know that Joss doesn't feel that he has done his job if he fails to pull our beating hearts out and stomping on them...and then make us laugh a second later (he is a hard and cruel creator).

So what else were you asking?
Oh, yeah: I consider anyone a true fan who says they are...I'm willing to take them at their word.
But I'll admit that I avoid people (by not responding to their threads) who feel that Joss was mistaken, that 'Serenity' is not 'canon', that just seems silly to me. It is true that Joss would probably not have killed any of the characters in the first season of 'Firefly' (if he had had 22 episodes), but he certainly would have killed off some characters eventually; just as he did on Buffy and Angel.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:54 PM

WASHBURNEFAN

My only dislike is not having all the crew on at the same time.

Oh and...

OOOOOOOOOhHHHHHHHHH GGGGGGGGGGooooooooooDDDDDDDDD why did they kill Wash!

AHHHHHHHHHHHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Hahaha! Mine is an evil laugh... Now die!

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Friday, April 14, 2006 5:31 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by RMMC:
(I know it's weird, but as a Buffy and Angel fan prior to the show, I've kinda gotten used to his torturing his fan bases in a good way.

I never really watched Buffy or Angel. Is it actually normal for Joss to twist knives into our hearts by killing off our favorite characters?

(Sorry. Still going through acute Wash withdrawal.)

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Friday, April 14, 2006 6:05 AM

MILFORD

Interesting question. I took a lot of criticism when I was getting my PhD so I now how valuable responses can be.

As someone who was a Firefly fan first, and a Serenity fan second, I had a strong reaction of ownership to the film. I remember when the title came up and the transitioned over to the ship that I was so excited about MY

in movie! I was very proud, and as a result, was very sensitive to criticism of the film. Now, how did I judge it? That's an interesting quesiton. I was thrilled to see my heroes again, but was frustrated at the short span. It's like meeting your soul mate, but only getting one date with her. It was obvious to me that there was more there than the film had to say, so I found that frustrating. I supppose I'm saying I was torn: loved to have my friends back, irratated that they had to go so soon.

As to what it means to be a true Firefly fan? I think that's a tougher question. It depends on how you define fan to begin with.

What class at what school is this for, if you don't mind me asking?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.

Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb

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Friday, April 14, 2006 7:29 AM

J00

Thanks for the response. By the way, do you happen to have any suggestions of other websites to research, or good books that deal with fan analysis? I'm taking the class at The University of Texas in Austin. It is the TV analysis and Critisism with Michael Kackman. Good class, good subject, good teacher. Thanks again for your responce.

Mike

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Friday, April 14, 2006 11:01 AM

MILFORD

Wow, UT is right down the road from me.

I know similar studies, epecially critical examinations, have been done to other shows, Twin Peaks in particular. I think Michigan State put out a book on that.

Good luck.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.

Leaning into the wind that used to carry me-Stavesacre
That's why I don't kiss'em on the mouth- Jayne Cobb

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Friday, April 14, 2006 2:05 PM

ZZETTA13

Quote:
Originally posted by J00:
Hey y'all,

I am a college student taking a TV analysis and Criticism class and I'm trying to gain a perspective from the Firefly fan community of how we judged "Serentity". What I'm interested to know is who of you were avid fans of Firefly before the movie came out, and what your immediate criticisms of the movie, as far as character, story, style, etc. And also I'd like to get the critisisms of those who became fans from the movie and then started watching the episodes. Also, what do you all think is a true fan of Firefly? Thank you for taking the time to read this and I'd be equally, if not more thankful if you found the time to respond.

Peace,
Mike

We(the wife and I) came to the verse by way of Serenity the movie. We saw the movie trailer in the theater when going to see Harry Potter, the wifes favorite.
I would have loved to have seen Serenity on the big screen but we didn't catch it until it was on dvd. Then we became very interested in seeing the tv series. After that I was hooked.

Criticism of the show? If I have any it won't be much. I love the idea of a creation not taking itself to serious. This gives it much more weight as for as I'm concerned. It gives the viewer the freedom to decided what they want to deem as real and what to just toss out as funny. Thats how life is in reality anyway.

A true fan of Firefly? Well your on a browncoat site full of them.

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Friday, April 14, 2006 4:01 PM

GELASSENHEIT

I was a fan of the series when it was still airing, but got its cancellation notice.

My immediate 'cricisms' of the movie were that the characters were too 2 dimensional. It could have been because they could only get 2 hours worth into this movie, whereas the series was able to give the time to show character development.

A true Firefly fan is one who has enjoyed both the series and the movie, has seen both numerous times and still can't get enough.

Gelassenheit means Serenity

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Saturday, April 15, 2006 9:19 PM

CRYBABY

Hey Mike:
I am a newly recruited fan of Firefly so I thought I'd add my thoughts. When my brother bought the box set and movie over a while back I was a bit sceptical about the whole thing. The premise of a space western sounds absurd but its works!!! The characters are people we can relate to, not the idealist charactures fed to us in Star Trek (ie: the insufferably shrill Janeway and aloft Piccard) but people who have the same wants and needs of us mere mortals. It may be set 500 years into the future but people are still people and that’s what appeals to me most I suppose, what guy can't relate to Simon making an a$$ of himself with Kaylee and vice versa.
Another thing I think that made it such a great series was that the way that the plots of different episodes intertwine with one another. Unlike many TV shows today (apart from notable exceptions such as Lost etc...) it felt like there was a time flow and "narrative" behind the whole thing. Characters that you met earlier had a greater impact ie: Badger, Saffron that crazy Russian fella and you felt that it wasn’t just another modular show where Capt. X flies off to help some poor sod, gets in a fight, wins the day and flies on to have yet another adventure this time with giant space blobs.
Before I sat down to watch it I knew that it had been cancelled but it wasn’t until I saw it that i realised what a outrage it was. It was Space Above and Beyond all over again (ran to only one season, culled way before its time) though this time there’s an active fan base who where not going to let the issue stagnate. This is the first fansite that I have contributed to and hopefully this support may, fingers crossed, bring firefly back (we live in hope). I think that what makes a browncoat IMO.
I thought the movie was very good though it was a slight departure from the series. It had no real slow moments when the characters could open up though the characters were for the most part those in the series ( Mal a little taciturn at the start but he was soon his own self). Considering the rather limited medium film can be ( only 2 hours to explain everything to newbies and keep the f/fheads happy) it was accomplished masterfully and despite the slight liberties taken with the story it worked. Only real regret was the death of Book without any resolution of any of the questions concerning his past. Wash's demise while regrettable (the funniest character in the show) showed that even the good guys lose sometimes and that no one is safe. The loss of both characters could be a problem if the show is ever resurrected though it could lead to some grown within the series and interesting plot lines (Wash Jnr. taking the helm and the Operative turning out to be Book's love child)

Well that’s my two cents...

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Sunday, April 16, 2006 3:39 PM

RMMC

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:

I never really watched Buffy or Angel. Is it actually normal for Joss to twist knives into our hearts by killing off our favorite characters?

Frequently and at length. And it isn't a all unsualy for him to wait a season or two, just to make sure you're really attached to the character before giving them the axe.

Painful partings on Buffy and Angel with the lenght of time we had with them before the axe fell (which I'll put under spoilers for those who don't wanna know yet):

Select to view spoiler:

Jenny Calandar: 1 1/2 seasons; Joyce Summers (Buffy's mom): 5 seasons; Angel (who was later resurrected) 2 seasons; Tara: 2 seasons; Cordelia: 9 seasons; Doyle: <1 season; Wesley: 7 seasons; Spike (like Angel, was later resurrected) 6 seasons; Fred: 4 seasons; Jonathan: 7 seasons. Heck, Buffy's died 3 times (in season's 1, 5 and 6)!

Quite the list for off the top of my head, eh? So yeah, just figure, nobody's safe.

Quote:
(Sorry. Still going through acute Wash withdrawal.)

I understand completely. I'm still missing both of our lost crew.

*******
RMMC
“Can we start with the part about Jayne getting put down by a 90 pound girl, ‘cause that’s never gonna get old.”

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Monday, April 17, 2006 1:20 PM

FLORALBUNNY

Bumpity bump.
Do we get to see your results?
Heh.

bun
-- bastards criticized my turtle --
----- why's the rum gone? -----

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Monday, April 17, 2006 2:08 PM

MIMA

I was interested in what brought people into this made-family of browncoats too. i made a poll of what "hooked" people who watched firefly. http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=333
3

check out the responses. firefly is a special show.

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Monday, April 17, 2006 3:17 PM

FLORALBUNNY

Interesting, mima, but I'm a "most-of-the-above" so couldn't vote.

Didn't know Whedon from an upper canine incisor pre-Firefly.

Especially enjoyed the comment from the addict who mentioned earwax...

bun
-- bastards rated my turtle --
----- why's the rum gone? -----

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:02 PM

J00

That was a fantastic idea! Thank you so much. This is killer for my research.

Thanks again,
Mike

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:57 PM

J00

Thanks for this responce in particulare, it is really the kind of thing I want to explore more in depth. I was hoping you could elaborate what about the movie, specifically attracted you to the tv series?

Thanks again for your responce.

Mike

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