Zoe? by traveler

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Zoe?

POSTED BY: TRAVELER
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 09:19
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4772
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, August 4, 2006 2:39 PM

I find myself going on about why this person does this or what's in that person's past. We know Zoe fought with Mal and obviously respects him. She also probably had no one else to return to after the war. But she stayed with Mal. Even took up his criminal activities. There was no love interest, Wash swept her off her feet and she swept him.

Does Joss ever discuss Zoe?

She follows Mal's lead but will let him know if he's done something wrong.

I loved the look Zoe gave Mal after he told Kaylee she would look ridiculous in that fancy dress she was mooning over. I thought she was going do that gun butt in the face thing she likes so much. But her eyes sliced Mal in two.

And when Mal was showing her Serenity for the first time she asked him if he paid serious money for this pile of, sorry I don't speak mandarin.

But she joined him. And went into the black to share his dream.

Is this the power of Serenity. To draw people toward her. Book nearly walked on by. Inara could have done better.

But Zoe was the first. She gave Mal the start of this family of misfits. Yet of all the others she does not come off as a misfit. She's level headed and is a good leader in her own right. The choice she made with no doubts when she said Wash before Niska could finish his sentence. Who took on Niska in his own back yard? Zoe! Stormed that spacestation like a hot knife through butter.

And to finish my blabbering, when they removed Wash in the movie she lost the person who she wanted a child with. That has to be a double hurt.

I'ved watch the series several times now. Big surprize. And I can't put my finger on her motives like the others we have discussed.

Any thoughts people? I'm starving.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 2:42 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Quote:

And when Mal was showing her Serenity for the first time she asked him if he paid serious money for this pile of, sorry I don't speak mandarin.

fay-oo

means junk

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 2:47 PM

TRAVELER

Shows you how dirty my mind runs. I thought she said something much worse.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:11 PM

SIRIUS

I look at the cast as this.

Just a new theory of mine.

Serenity-the mother
Mal-Brother
Zoe-Sister
Wash-Brother-in-law to Mal
Book-the grandfather
Jayne-the hick cousin
Simon-the son
River-the black sheep
Kaylee-the daughter
Inara-the on the rocks girlfriend

Zoe...well Zoe follows Mal. She tends to agree with him on all points even when it puts her in trouble with her marriage. But in War Stories it comes to a middle and she chooses Wash over Mal. But is it because he is her husband or that she knew that Mal could tough it out?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:18 PM

CIVIC1

I'm new to this show, but from what I've seen, I feel Zoe is the female version of Mal, but with a "clearer" head on her shoulders. Where Mal may just go with the flow, Zoe takes a step back to assess the situation before making a decision. Then again, she can be all guts and just aim for the bull's eye. I'm a Star Trek fan so I would compare Zoe to Commander Wil Riker, and Mal would be Captain Picard. Zoe is Mal's "Number 1" for those of you who watch Star Trek.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:36 PM

XITWOUND117

I think "female version of Mal" is a quite a bit off the mark. Zoe is hardcore, Mal is not. Zoe hasn't changed since the war, Mal changed a hell of alot. Mal is also a hell of alot funnier than Zoe. I think he's more of a leader than Zoe is, as well.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:41 PM

TRAVELER

She does seem to have an abilty come up with good plans. She picked Wash because he was her husband in "War Stories". I don't doubt that. But Wash was the one person who could slip Serenity right under Niska's nose. Who better to pick for the job.

They tell you Mal was a sergeant during the war. But there are a lot of classifications. Zoe must of earned some stripes her ownself.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:44 PM

ODDSBODSKINS

m'm, mal a sergeant, zoe a corporal, given the amount of people mal was supposed to be commanding during the battle of serentiy, and the fac that, given their relationship, i can't see him having anyone as his second but zoe, i'd guess on her having held a fair amount of responsibility her own self.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 3:45 PM

CAROLJUDE

Sometimes if you're lucky you just wind up with a great boss - I'm in that situation myself, and Zoe really resonates with me (damn, she's so cool.)

They served together, grew as close as possible in a platonic relationship, saw each other through everything the war threw at them. After Serenity Valley... well, that kind of closeness, that deep relationship, is hard to duplicate, and once you have that and you try to duplicate it with someone else, most of the time they will not measure up. Zoe is with Mal because they are comfortable with each other. Anyone who's had a hard time finding just the right job and the right people knows that comfort is more important than anything, sometimes even health and dental ;) My boss and I can scream at each other, be each others confidantes and even best friends at times, and more times than not know each other's plans and thoughts at any given moment. No way I'd give that up for good pay and a HMO plan.

Zoe rescued Wash from Niska's because he needed rescuing. She knew Mal would likely be able to do exactly what he did: survive AND fight back. Replace Wash with any other crew member and she'd have done exactly the same.

Walk tall, or don't walk at all...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 4:08 PM

TRAVELER

I had a boss like that once. But our company went under and we went our separate ways. Would give a lot to have his guidance again.

I hope you never lose yours.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 4:20 PM

CAROLJUDE

We're sort of struggling - I'm a manager of a UPS Store, which are franchises (not a chain.) Corporate is for some reason doing all they can to hurt a lot of the stores (some think they are angling to establish the brand, then switch to corporate-ownership aka chain stores.) It's very tough, but we have a staff of brilliant but eccentric misfits, not fast-food slingers, and so we spend a lot of time thinking up new ways to keep ourselves in business; new strategies, services, etc. I tend to use the analogy of Empire vs. Rebel Alliance a lot when discussing it...

I'm trying my damndest to get him to let us get into petty thievery and salvage work... not to mention the whole carrying firearms thing.

Walk tall, or don't walk at all...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 4:52 PM

TRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by CarolJude:
staff of brilliant but eccentric misfits, not fast-food slingers, and so we spend a lot of time thinking up new ways to keep ourselves in business; new strategies, services, etc. I tend to use the analogy of Empire vs. Rebel Alliance a lot when discussing it...

I'm trying my damndest to get him to let us get into petty thievery and salvage work... not to mention the whole carrying firearms thing.

Walk tall, or don't walk at all...

UPS - Firefly crossover.

Were privately owned where I am now. The owner has a good sense of where to take the company. But were so large it is hard to get a feeling of fellowship. Fortunately the guy I share a cubicle with is great. He just smiles when I discuss Firefly and says "Addicted".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 5:56 PM

GOAT

I remember at the end of "heart of gold" right before Inara told Mal she was going to leave.

Quote:
I learned something from Nandy. Not just from what happened, but from her. The family she made... the strength of her love for them; its what kept them together. When you live with that kind of strength, you get tied to it; you can't break away and you never want to.

From what Zoe said about what happened in Serenity valley, I wonder if she felt similar and stayed with him because of that feeling.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 6:29 PM

TRAVELER

GOAT:

I have not had much experience with that. Maybe that is why I have a hard time seeing it. But it makes sense. The people who have answered this thread seem to follow that connection.

Thank you and all above for this insite.
Traveler

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 4, 2006 6:30 PM

TRAVELER

Double Posted.
The space monkeys have struck again.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 5, 2006 7:50 PM

RCAT

Zoe is, if nothing else, a soldier. After their war experiences together and the crushing defeat of Serenity Valley, she and Mal had a bond that couldn't be broken. I think they probably clung to each other, after the war, for support...neither feeling there was a place for them. They make a good team and both know it. Since there's was a platonic relationship, keeping things professional was probably the most comfortable way to stay together. As for Wash, he's her man, he balances/completes her. I'm sure she is conflicted about loyalty but as a soldier and a professional, duty comes first. I think her decision in War Stories was both calculated and from the heart.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 7:12 AM

ZZETTA13

I agree with Rcat that Zoe is hardcore soldier.I think shes had much disappointment in her life and has been let down many times. The independent army was the first time in her life where she experienced the discipline that she needed. Malcolm Reynolds became part of that. Like many of the crew of Serenity shes become detached from her original family or may have none remaining at all. FAMILY is an important message in the show. I think it is one of the main reasons ppl identify with FF. You can still have issues and still belong in a family that care and want you. I have no doubt that most if not all would die for one another on that boat.It was made clear in the "Ariel" eps when Mal tells Jayne about his turning in of Simon and River "You did it to me!"

Z

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 7:23 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

There was a theory going around a while back that each member of the crew represents a part of himself that Mal lost during the war. Kaylee being his innocence, Book his faith, Wash his sense of fun etc. I'd wondered what part of Mal Zoe was supposed to represent. I thought it might be loyalty, but the truth is even as a thief Mal is pretty loyal. Heck, it's why he reacted so violently to Jayne's betrayal in Ariel.

I'm starting to think Zoe might represent conviction. She never doubts for a second that she did the right thing fighting the war, staying by Mal's side, staying on board Serenity etc. When Mal makes a bad decision Zoe is the first - and sometimes the only - person to speak up. She's also the first to support him when he makes a decision she thinks is right. Everybody remembers the scene in War Stories where Niska forced her to choose between Mal and Wash and she instantly chose Wash; no hesitation, no agonising over what to do, she just made the choice.

Zoe is also a soldier, first and last. She calls Mal "Sir", her tactics and skills are military, not criminal. Zoe seems to be the person who keeps Mal in touch with his Browncoat past and stops him sliding completely into a criminal life.

I know that's all very ineloquent, I haven't thought most of this through. I'm still trying to figure Zoe out.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 10:48 AM

CAPTURE

My take on it is that Zoe became just as F*ed up as Mal did during the battle of Serenity Valley, everyone else is gone, but the two of them "survived". They are kindred spirts and lost wanders of the same world. Zoe and Mal are broken, and while Zoe is much better at hiding it, I bet with out Mal she would be all bibeldy and stuff.

Capture

I ain't had nothing
twixt my nethers...weren't run on batteries.
Yup...still single...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 11:41 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Quote:
Originally posted by xitwound117:
I think "female version of Mal" is a quite a bit off the mark. Zoe is hardcore, Mal is not. Zoe hasn't changed since the war, Mal changed a hell of alot. Mal is also a hell of alot funnier than Zoe. I think he's more of a leader than Zoe is, as well.

I would have said it was the other way round - Mal is the one who hasn't changed much since Serenity Valley whereas Zoe has moved on (at least before the BDM). I don't think this is any clearer than in their clothes. In 'Out of Gas', they are both still wearing their browncoats in the flashback, but Mal is still wearing his nowwhile Zoe has stopped wearing hers. I wonder if she would start wearing it again cos the Alliance where kinda responsible for Wash's death....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 12:14 PM

LISSA37

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
There was a theory going around a while back that each member of the crew represents a part of himself that Mal lost during the war. Kaylee being his innocence, Book his faith, Wash his sense of fun etc. I'd wondered what part of Mal Zoe was supposed to represent. I thought it might be loyalty, but the truth is even as a thief Mal is pretty loyal. Heck, it's why he reacted so violently to Jayne's betrayal in Ariel.

I'm starting to think Zoe might represent conviction. She never doubts for a second that she did the right thing fighting the war, staying by Mal's side, staying on board Serenity etc. When Mal makes a bad decision Zoe is the first - and sometimes the only - person to speak up. She's also the first to support him when he makes a decision she thinks is right. Everybody remembers the scene in War Stories where Niska forced her to choose between Mal and Wash and she instantly chose Wash; no hesitation, no agonising over what to do, she just made the choice.

Zoe is also a soldier, first and last. She calls Mal "Sir", her tactics and skills are military, not criminal. Zoe seems to be the person who keeps Mal in touch with his Browncoat past and stops him sliding completely into a criminal life.

I know that's all very ineloquent, I haven't thought most of this through. I'm still trying to figure Zoe out.

"Ineloquent"? Are you kidding me? I really like what you said here. Furthermore, I think the way you said it was just fine.

I like the whole theory about each crew member representing something Mal lost and I especially like your opinion on how Zoe fits that theory. Zoe is hard to place and a challenge to understand at times, but I think your thoughts about her make sense.

Now, you've got me thinking about some of the other characters, though... hmmm.

Credit for screencaps belongs to: http://still-flying.net/ and http://www.leavemethewhite.com/caps/index.php
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:02 PM

TEACHDAIRE

The way I see it is this way;

Mal an officer, granted his rank in the Independant's army was Sergeant, but with the amount of troops he was in command of (4000 at one point during the battle of Serenity valley) he was an officer in all but name.

Zoe was his second in command, that makes her equivalent to a sergeant major (gunnery sergeant or master sergeant for you americans out there), and she continues to fulfill this role during the years following the war.

-------------------------------------------------
For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:21 PM

TRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by Lissa37:
Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
There was a theory going around a while back that each member of the crew represents a part of himself that Mal lost during the war. Kaylee being his innocence, Book his faith, Wash his sense of fun etc. I'd wondered what part of Mal Zoe was supposed to represent. I thought it might be loyalty, but the truth is even as a thief Mal is pretty loyal. Heck, it's why he reacted so violently to Jayne's betrayal in Ariel.

I'm starting to think Zoe might represent conviction. She never doubts for a second that she did the right thing fighting the war, staying by Mal's side, staying on board Serenity etc. When Mal makes a bad decision Zoe is the first - and sometimes the only - person to speak up. She's also the first to support him when he makes a decision she thinks is right. Everybody remembers the scene in War Stories where Niska forced her to choose between Mal and Wash and she instantly chose Wash; no hesitation, no agonising over what to do, she just made the choice.

Zoe is also a soldier, first and last. She calls Mal "Sir", her tactics and skills are military, not criminal. Zoe seems to be the person who keeps Mal in touch with his Browncoat past and stops him sliding completely into a criminal life.

I know that's all very ineloquent, I haven't thought most of this through. I'm still trying to figure Zoe out.

"Ineloquent"? Are you kidding me? I really like what you said here. Furthermore, I think the way you said it was just fine.

I like the whole theory about each crew member representing something Mal lost and I especially like your opinion on how Zoe fits that theory. Zoe is hard to place and a challenge to understand at times, but I think your thoughts about her make sense.

Now, you've got me thinking about some of the other characters, though... hmmm.

Credit for screencaps belongs to: http://still-flying.net/ and http://www.leavemethewhite.com/caps/index.php
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I can clearly see Zoe in her coat as Mal shows her Serenity for the first. And then its gone as we return to the present.

Thank you for your comments to DESKTOPHIPPIE.
I also feel she was eloquent.

I always felt that each character represented a part of our human nature. And Mal losing this faith certainly can cause him to lose even more of those qualities that make us human. In "Serenity" they tell us it is six years after the battle, so I suspect the others have already had an effect on Mal. He has a sense of family with his crew. An important part of returning to that human need for companionship.

I always laugh at the fact Mal bought Serenity to run away. To be free he calls it. But he ends up with this family. Inara says it in "HEART OF GOLD" about getting to close. But the need to interact with others is what teaches us. Helps us mature. Mal reacting to Jayne's betratal was to get through Jayne's thick skull that they are family and Simon and River are apart of it.

As I look back on the different episodes I can see Zoe has shared in the influence.

I'm bad at quotes so I'll leave that to others, but in the train job, more than once Zoe speaks her mind to Mal. She does call him sir but she is not afraid to confront Mal when she feels he is wrong.

When I started this thread I had some notions about Zoe, but you have opened my eyes to see Zoe more clearly.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:34 PM

ZZETTA13

This is a very interesting thread. I am enjoying it very much.

Everyone has made some good points about Zoe being second in command or Mals #1. She has the complete trust of the ships captain and her decisions are solid. She leads the way when Serenitys crew returns to retrieve the captain from Niskas space station.

One of the things that really made an impression on me was in the OoG eps. During Mals recovery when he awakes at first and finds the whole crew has returned to the Firefly. Zoe," I take full responsibility sir. It won't happen again." Mal," Good, and I'm grateful."

That is such a great scene. Remember Mal hadn't called them back to say the ship was fixed. That it was alright to come back. What Zoes words where really saying were, care for you sir. You are our commander. We'll either live together or we'll die that way but it will be as a family. The Serenity family. Remember each one of them came back. Not one of them questioned her decision on this.

Z

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:36 PM

TEACHDAIRE

Yeah, but Jayne wanted to return earlier, but as he said "Inara's done something to her shuttle".

-------------------------------------------------
For every battle honour, a thousand heroes die along, unremembered and unsung...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 6, 2006 1:38 PM

ZZETTA13

Double post

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 7, 2006 10:29 AM

TERRI

Somebody said something about Wash and Mal's run in with Niska, and I agree. Zoe didn't take Wash because he was her husband. Sh took him because she knew that he would break before Mal did. She was thinking about time, not about who she loved more or less. She knew that she would be coming back for whoever got left behind, and so she needed to have as much time as possible. I'm a hardcore Zoe fan, btw. As far as her realtionship to Mal, it's like well, I figure, she cares about him, that goes without saying. They went through a lot during the war, and that bonds people, but their bond is more than that. They're friends, real friends that can trust and depend on each other, and anyone then and now knows that's a rarity. Sometimes Mal does crazy things, I think that Zoe is there as the balance to all that. I dunno if Zoe wouldn't be a good leader, I truly think she would. She cares for the crew and the ship, just as much as Mal. I just really like the fact that they reall yare just friends and no more than that. The platonic-ness(yeah I know it's not a word) of it all really makes me appreciate. It really is a mutual friendship between two equals. And even though Zoe calls Mal sir, he values and respects her opinion.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 7, 2006 10:43 AM

SPACEANJL

Zoe was career military - born on a spaceship, family all military too. So I think she has that sense of structure, maybe that need for structure. Mal is her commander, she'll follow him, completely loyal. Maybe she is sometimes his conscience.

(This is from the OVC, Gina's reading of the character, and stuff from the shooting scripts.)

Hard fact here - she lost Wash, but she will not lay down and die because of it. That is not who she is. And I think it is the ship and the crew who will get her through it - she will hold together to keep them together.

Wash must have been something so different, and so outside her experience, that he got under her guard. Light and fun and laughter after the horror of war. Though the lip ferret had to go.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 7, 2006 7:41 PM

XITWOUND117

Quote:
Originally posted by SerenityinScotland:
Quote:
Originally posted by xitwound117:
I think "female version of Mal" is a quite a bit off the mark. Zoe is hardcore, Mal is not. Zoe hasn't changed since the war, Mal changed a hell of alot. Mal is also a hell of alot funnier than Zoe. I think he's more of a leader than Zoe is, as well.

I would have said it was the other way round - Mal is the one who hasn't changed much since Serenity Valley whereas Zoe has moved on (at least before the BDM). I don't think this is any clearer than in their clothes. In 'Out of Gas', they are both still wearing their browncoats in the flashback, but Mal is still wearing his nowwhile Zoe has stopped wearing hers. I wonder if she would start wearing it again cos the Alliance where kinda responsible for Wash's death....

What? At Serenity Valley Mal had faith, religion, less distrust of people. He had a belief, a purpose. His coat represents that to him. To Zoe the coat is just a coat that represents the military faction she fought for. That's why Mal wears his and Zoe doesn't.

And plus, Mal lost all of his purpose, direction, faith, religion, etc after Serenity Valley and the war. Zoe is pretty much the same. The only change is the now departed husband really.

Quote:
Originally posted by Terri:
Somebody said something about Wash and Mal's run in with Niska, and I agree. Zoe didn't take Wash because he was her husband. Sh took him because she knew that he would break before Mal did. She was thinking about time, not about who she loved more or less. She knew that she would be coming back for whoever got left behind, and so she needed to have as much time as possible. I'm a hardcore Zoe fan, btw. ... I dunno if Zoe wouldn't be a good leader, I truly think she would. She cares for the crew and the ship, just as much as Mal.

I don't believe for a second that she picked Wash because he would break sooner. She did seem to, when talking to wash on-board the shuttle, not expect to return for Mal. I'm not saying she wouldn't have had Wash not initiated it, but she didn't have a plan to at the time. I mean, wouldn't she have said "We're going to get him" rather than Niska will take "days" to torture him? She picked the person she most wanted safe.

Anyway, caring about the crew doesn't necessarily make someone a good leader at all. There's no question that she cares about the crew and the ship, but she just seems like a follower. She seems most at home carrying out a task rather than coming up with what to do and how to do it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 5:44 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER

It seems to me that Zoe is a born second-in-command because she's extremely competent in what she does (in serving as a sounding board, in carrying out a tactic, etc.), but she isn't driven by an overarching goal or purpose. She's really balanced, in and of herself. She isn't a leader because there isn't any place she really needs to go.

Mal, on the other hand, has -- and needs -- the purpose he forged himself after the Independents lost the war. He can't ensure freedom for the border planets, but he can try his darnedest to ensure freedom for himself and his crew. It's to that end he decides to buy Serenity and make a go of it as a free-lance transport vessel.

I imagine that when the war ended, Zoe's career in the military she had signed up with ended rather ignominiously. She almost certainly wouldn't have had a pension, and probably really didn't feel like signing up with the Alliance military (assuming they would have let her). She doesn't seem to have any family.

I don't think she has a burning desire for freedom; if Mal had just drifted off after the war I imagine she would have settled down somewhere on the border, gotten a job, been reasonably competent at it but not particularly ambitious about it, and turned her mind to starting a family.

But since Mal did have a purpose, and at least an idea of how to make a livelihood out of it, and since they did have that bond, she decided to go with Mal and stay his second-in-command (and good thing, too, 'cause I don't think Mal could have made it without her).

Just my 2 cents,

Indigo S.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 6:10 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by xitwound117:
I don't believe for a second that she picked Wash because he would break sooner. She did seem to, when talking to wash on-board the shuttle, not expect to return for Mal. I'm not saying she wouldn't have had Wash not initiated it, but she didn't have a plan to at the time. I mean, wouldn't she have said "We're going to get him" rather than Niska will take "days" to torture him? She picked the person she most wanted safe.

Anyway, caring about the crew doesn't necessarily make someone a good leader at all. There's no question that she cares about the crew and the ship, but she just seems like a follower. She seems most at home carrying out a task rather than coming up with what to do and how to do it.

I really can't say I agree here, at least not to everything. Saying Zoe is just a follower really isn't fair to her character. Zoe leads when she has to, whereas Mal (and this is probably a leftover from Serenity Valley) wants to lead. He needs to be in control of something, because the Alliance has taken so much away.

I will agree that Zoe chose Wash because she wanted him safe the most. But I also believe that she knew he'd break first. The two ideas don't have to be mutually exclusive.

The sad thing about Zoe's character is that we just don't know enough about her. While other characters like Mal or River had lots of development, Zoe was in some ways neglected. So I think there will be some aspects of her character that we will just have to guess at.

**************************************************

"See, this is a sign of your tragic space dementia. All paranoid and crotchety, it breaks the heart."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 6:22 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Quote:
What? At Serenity Valley Mal had faith, religion, less distrust of people. He had a belief, a purpose. His coat represents that to him. To Zoe the coat is just a coat that represents the military faction she fought for. That's why Mal wears his and Zoe doesn't.

And plus, Mal lost all of his purpose, direction, faith, religion, etc after Serenity Valley and the war. Zoe is pretty much the same. The only change is the now departed husband really.

I stand by my view that Zoe is the one that has changed. Maybe not from the moment when Mal blows up the Alliance Fighter in the very first teaser - Zoe then still resembles present day Zoe more than that Mal resembles present day Mal. Do you see what I'm saying?
But from the moment in one of the deleted scenes, the one were Mal says something like 'God? Whos colours he flying?' - that Mal is more similar to the present day Mal. At that point he has lost his (as you say) purpose, direction, faith etc. and he hasn't moved on a great deal in the time between that and the events we see in the series and movie. Whereas Zoe has found herself a fine husband.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 9:03 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

I see what you mean. And it brings up an interesting point. Does Wash represent everything Zoe lost in the war? Did he help her reconnect with that side of herself? And if so, what will she be like now that he's gone?

More signatures available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 8, 2006 9:19 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND

Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
I see what you mean. And it brings up an interesting point. Does Wash represent everything Zoe lost in the war? Did he help her reconnect with that side of herself? And if so, what will she be like now that he's gone?

I don't know if we know enough about what Zoe lost in the war to say this? If we assume she lost her family, then Wash would certainly represent that aspect. Also, perhaps he is something to her that is not a mission - not something she is ordered to do (though she may believe in the order) but something that she has that is her own, that nobody gave to her and in one sense, can never take away. Of course, in another sense some Reavers and a big-ass stick could take it from her.
As to what she will become...who knows? That's a job for Joss! I wouldn't be suprised if in the opening scenes to the next (God willing) 'Verse film/episode we saw Zoe back in her browncoat. Actually, how shiney would a Zoe centered film be?! Hard to sell commercially perhaps though.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE