New to Firefly and have some questions by KingofallLondinum

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

New to Firefly and have some questions

POSTED BY: KINGOFALLLONDINUM
UPDATED: Sunday, October 8, 2006 16:00
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VIEWED: 5658
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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:08 AM

First of all, this is a great site and forum. Last month I discovered Firefly and fell in love with the show. It is wonderful. And such a tragedy that it didn't last, but I will not get started on that...

Anyway, this has become one of my favorite shows of all time. I bought the DVD's and have watched all the episodes multiple times. And I bought the movie DVD.

And then I discovered this forum! And I'm excited to find other fans of the verse and have the opportunity to ask some questions.

I apologize in advance if these have been covered fully in the past. But, like I said I'm new here.

So here are some of my questions, and I'll number them for easy reference. I really appreciate everyone taking the time to read this.

1. In watching the episode Safe (several times, it is a great episode) I am continually struck by the Tam's father. Well the parents in general. It seems to me that he is hiding things. In fact, I've formed the opinion, and this may be way off base, that he in some way knew that the alliance was experimenting on River and that he had turned her over to them knowing that they wanted to use her abilities. First off, in the flashback episode where River and Simon are young, there is a brief moment after he tells Simon that he can have the dedicated source and Simon has to repay him by becoming a great doctor. River says "what about me" and the father cuts her off by saying something like "years from now" and there's this look on his face like, well, he's not afraid of her, but that he knows she can be dangerous or something. I don't know it always struck me as odd.

And then in the later flashback when Simon is showing his parents the letters, and the mother makes the comment that in a few months Simon will turn around and River will be there. So it is like they know that Simon can't contact her now. And like they don't want him asking questions. The father then brings up that he shouldn't harm his career.

In the last flashback where the father gets him out of prison, he is so adamant about Simon not looking for River. Why? Because he's just a cold father? Because he's embarrassed about going into the police station and it going on his record? Maybe those things play a part, but he seems genuinely afraid of what Simon will do, and how that will get him (the father) in trouble. Which again leads me to think that father knows some stuff. And that maybe he willingly turned River over to the Alliance knowing that it wasn't just some school she was going to.

Anyone have any insight into this?

2. Inara's syringe and the black liquid. In listening to DVD commentaries, Joss said there was going to be a subplot about this and it wasn't what people assumed. Meaning, people assumed that she was going to commit suicide with the syringe if the Reavers boarded. This is in the pilot episode.

I've been thinking what that subplot would have been. Again, maybe somebody here has some insight into this. To, and this is may just be my crazy imagination, but it has something to do with her fear of death and her fear of growing old. Inara clearly has a fear of death. Sure, who doesn't, but there are times she expresses that. Like in Out of Gas when she talks with Simon and he is describing suffocating and she says something like "I don't want to die at all."

Then there is that moment in Heart of Gold (and I especially love that episode for the Mal/Inara stuff) when Nandi comments on Inara's looks and says that Inara hasn't changed at all. In fact, Nandi is surprised that Inara still looks the same.

Again, may just be my crazy imagination, but it seems that Inara has a strong fear of aging and that perhaps she is taking some drugs (maybe even kind of dangerous drugs - the ominous black liquid) that keep her looking young. It is a big secret for her. Obviously. Which also makes me think that this something dangerous for her to do. Maybe even addictive?

3. On to the movie, which I had some problems with, but I'm not going to go into all that now. I liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. I just think the verse works so much better as a TV show. That's just my opinion. Anyway, first question on the movie. Is there any mention of the Blue Sun Corp.? I don't remember it. I don't remember seeing any Blue Sun signs either. Is that aspect of the verse taken out of the movie? Along those same lines, the men with blue hands aren't in the movie. Did they just streamline that plot, to make it more visibly the Alliance and the Operative? In the show, the Blue Sun and the men with Blue Hands seem to be part of a conspiracy that runs deeper than what is indicated in the movie. Maybe future movies show that it does run as deep. It is just odd to me that there is no reference to either, that I saw, in the movie.

4. Last question. Does anybody know why there were no Alliance cruisers, the floating cities like we saw on the show, in the movie? I loved those ships. And I loved the concept behind them. Joss talked on the DVD about how he wanted them to be like cities, and monolithic, and to show that the Alliance wasn't very efficient. I loved that. But then in the movie, we don't, as I can remember, see those. I wonder why.

Sorry for the length of this post. I didn't want to start serveral threads, so I just dumped everything into this one post. And again, I'm sorry to bring up things I'm sure have been discussed in depth in the past. But I'm new!

Thanks so much for any help and thoughts on these questions.

Love live Firefly!

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:16 AM

GRIZWALD

Welcome! I know, I know - I only discovered the 'Verse last December and can't believe I missed so much. I'm really grateful to all the longtime Browncoats who made it possible for us latecomers to enjoy all this.

Yes, your observations have been discussed before - nuttin wrong with that.

1. The Tams. They sure acted shifty to me. I don't think there is a canon explanation, but I think they were willing to sell their (younger and female) child to maintain their social status.

2. Inara's syringe. Mucho speculation on this one, and many feel as you do, that it was an antiaging drug. Or a secret sexual weapon. Or a super-painkiller. Or a hyperstimulant to turn her into a killing machine. Who knows.

3. Blue Sun in the movie. Yep, it's there. It's in the background. Look at the propping. Better yet, look at the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial. It opens with a blue sun. As for the Hands of Blue guys, you need to get the graphic novel that explains what happens to those dudes and why the project had to be bumped up to an Operative.

4. City-ships like the Dortmunder. I think there are some in the epic Reaver space battle scene. I like the idea too. Remember in Bushwacked! where the commander of the Alliance cruiser ordered the nursery to be secured? Nursery? Yep, there were babies, even.

___________________________________________________
* If you're a leaf on the wind
* If you aim to misbehave
* If they can't take the sky from you
* If you are going to the Special Hell
* If you like the taste of Mudder's Milk
* If you carry Serenity with you everywhere you go
then you are a Browncoat, and you're with family.

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:23 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*whew* Actually those are very good questions.
There are a lot of people who have commented on the behavior of the Tams. Some think it's something ominous, some just them being naive and, yes, rather cold. I lean towards "ominous" myself. I think you nailed it.
There is a thread somewhere called "The Big Damn Inara Conspiracy Theory" which actually does, indeed postulate that she takes something to keep herself from aging. It should show up on Google if you can't find it. I can't remember which forum it was in, I'm sorry. So that theory is discussed in depth, but I never got that into it so I couldn't really state my opinion. It seems like it might be valid, but I just don't feel I have enough information.
The syringe, though, is a different matter. Tim Minear has talked about the syringe, and he said (indirectly) that it was in fact a toxin that would kill anyone who had intercourse with her. The subplot was going to be about her surviving Reavers by use of the toxin. I personally don't think she would survive entirly intact, and the whole thing was nixed by Fox as being too dark, though I think they still hoped to use it in later seasons. I think it would have been more interesting if it was the same form of toxin, but used for assasination.
No, there is no mention of Blue Sun or the blue-handed men in the movie. However, you can see what happened to the blue-handed men (possibly not just men) in the graphic novel "Serenity: Those Left Behind".

And I love your name! Shiny!

All things, oh priests, are on fire - Gautama Siddharta

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:38 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Welcome

1. This could just be that the Tam's new that if Simon started messing with the govs business that "bad things" would happen and are trying to stop him from doing anything rash.

The many years from now thing, IMO, is just that she is too young to have it or have access to things that she shouldn't have access to eg A number of years ago I was searching for Nintendo roms and got a bunch of porn pop-ups.

2. Maybe?

3. I have problems w/ the movie too.

I don't recall any Blue Sun stuff in there. I recall hereing that Joss removed Blue Sun from the story line purposely. There are of course many theories why, and I'm not certain as to if Joss himself has told us.

In the begining of the movie when Simon rescues River (one of my problems), the guys in suits I assumed to be blue hands men, but weren't wearing the gloves. This is either one of two things.

- Joss can just say that they don't need the gloves on within the academy and bring them back at a later time; or
- Joss telling us that they're just gone.

At any rate, I think that Joss needed to dumb down the store-line for the masses and this was one of the things to go. Can't have them over stimulated you know.

4. I don't recall seeing any. But, the city ships seem to be the "local police" type ships. Can't exactly expect the border worlds to have the facilities that a core worlder would "require". Also, in the movie Mal and co. were dealing with the military. So, only military ships would be prodominant.

At any rate, those are some of my opinions.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:02 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Welcome to the verse, King. Do you have a shiny hat?

1. I think the Tams were well placed socially and politically, and knew what was happening to River. In essence, they gave up one child for another. Simon was destined for the Medical Elect, and River, well she was just a female in a culture that placed more value on males.

2. I've always been of the opinion that Inara is much older than anyone thinks. I interpreted her expression while looking at the syringe, which contained her anti-aging drug, to be her thinking, "Well, that was all for nothing, wasn't it?"

3. I think there are only two references to Blue Sun in the BDM. First, as already mentioned, there's is a blue sun at the beginning of the Fruity Oaty Bar commercial. Also, the bottle (I assumed to be beer) that Jayne drinks from and then passes to Simon has the Blue Sun logo on it. That's in the scene where Jaynes says "Shepherd once told me, if you can't do something smart, do something right." Most everyone has assumed that the Blue Hands Men had a connection to the Blue Sun Corporation, and they may have, but there was no concrete evidence to support it, other than the fact the corp. was so predominate a provider of all sorts of goods in the 'verse, as well as River's apparent dislike of their logo, witnessed by her tearing labels off cans and smashing packages of food produced by Blue Sun in "Shindig."

4. Most all of the ships encountered in the BDM were military fighting ships, the Dortmunder and other city-ships from the series were more administrative in nature.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:03 AM

RIMGIRL

Re: The Tams I vote nefarious. If you had any doubt at all about the safety of your child, wouldn't you try to see her? And being refused, wouldn't all your warning signals go off?

Re: Alliance city ships. The final battle is in atmo of Mr. Universe's moon. The city ship would be incredibly ungainly in atmo. I think they just left them out of the movie entirely since they wouldn't figure in the big fight.

__________________________________
You see that? You see that? Would you pull over?

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:05 AM

KINGOFALLLONDINUM

Thanks for the great responses!

I'm going to have to get the graphic novel, sounds like some of the answers I seek are there.

Also sounds like I missed some great discussion on these topics. I'll have to start googling to get caught up.

Phoenix - thanks for clarifying the syringe thing. That makes sense to me.

I have to say I totally missed the Blue Sun logo in the movie. Don't see how.

Sigma - that makes sense about not seeing the city ships in the movie. I still I have to say I think they could have worked it in there, if only briefly. I don't know, just me, because I love the TV show so much. It would have been a nice connection. And I have a problem with the Simon rescue too. When I was just a lurker here, I read a thread that very eloquently explained how Simon breaking River out could match with the story of the breakout that Simon gives on the show.

Logically I can see how that works. But on an emotional level for me, it doesn't. Because in the show part of the River mystery was how in the dark Simon was about what was done to her. Having him break her out, see the facility, have some glimpse of what they are doing, takes away some of that mystery for me and doesn't jive with the show. Again, I can see how it can fit together, but for me it just doesn't do it.

Well, I wasn't going to get into the movie, but since the can of worms has been opened a bit...

I've always had a problem with how hostile Mal is toward Simon at the start of the movie. It works from a stand alone movie viewpoint. Certainly helps set up Mal's character arc.

And in the DVD commentary Joss explains a little that things are not going well for Mal, Book is gone, Inara's gone and Mal's lost his bearings.

But for me, it just conflicts too much with how the series ended. Plus, in Safe when Simon asks Mal why he came back for them, Mal says "you're part of my crew," but in the movie he tells him he's not part of the crew.

Those contradictions bothered me. Of course, Joss had to do it for the movie to reach a wider auidence. But for me...

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:11 AM

KINGOFALLLONDINUM

No, I don't have a shiny hat, but I have a pretty cunning one!

I'm glad it is not just me that saw some ominous things about the Tams.

I think there could be something to them sacrificing one kid for another, to protect or even enhance social status, gain political favor, etc. Interesting...

ecgordon - Ah, on the bottle! Good one. I'll have to watch those scenes again. Thanks.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:16 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done. I know there are many new fans who came to the 'verse via the movie first, so their reactions are sure to be different.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:45 AM

DARKFLY

I only watched Safe a few hours ago and for the first time I did notice that the parents especially the Father was cold and didn't care.

Inara's syringe is a complete mystery but my view is a suicide drug,cause I think there is no other expalnation I can think of.

Blue Sun wise read the comics.

I think theirs no Alliance cruisers from Firefly because if you think about in Firefly they never used any weapons at all and their's no evidence of any weapons which suggests that they have probably only a few weapons onboard if any,and think about the Alliance would have different class ships so the ones in Serenity are all Battlecruisers or attack ships which are built for fighting,plus the Alliance criusers from Firefly have nursery's,etc. so their not going to send them out some where which might involve fighting.

------------------------------------------------------

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:50 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Inara's syringe is almost defintly a suicide drug,be serious what else could it be.

Why do you insist it has to be that when Joss said it wasn't.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 8:55 AM

REDLAVA

I have a slightly different view of the Tams. They are obviously very well-to-do, but I believe they are either very naive or very trusting of the government. They knew that it was a government program that they enrolled River into. Everybody believes it including Simon until the letters start coming in. Simon obviously knows his sister much better than the parents so he knows when something isn't right. Like many extremely wealthy familys, the parents don't really have much involvement with their children. They have their careers to worry about, and nanny's to take care of teh kids. I think the Tams believe that the government is completely trustworthy and could do no wrong, like Americans felt before the Kennedy assassination. So being complicent with the government in regards to River, yes. Knowing what was happening to her, no. It never enters into their mind.

When Simon's father bails him out of jail, I think he is way more concerned about what it will do to his and his family's social status. Not so much of what the Alliance may or may not do to him because of it. He even says that just coming into the building goes on his record, and was quite peeved about it.

The other questions seemed to have been answered already, but I just wanted to throw out another opinion on the Tams.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 9:37 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

KingofAll

Just want to say

You have a lot of good questions/points - I will have to read it more closely at home!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 10:23 AM

GRIZWALD

Darkfly, you are most enthusiastic about your newfound love, but please have the respect not to loudly assume things and tromp over those who differ with you.

I am a relatively new fan, too - 8 months now, I guess - and am careful to be respectful of those who came before me. You would be wise to do the same.

___________________________________________________
* If you're a leaf on the wind
* If you aim to misbehave
* If they can't take the sky from you
* If you are going to the Special Hell
* If you like the taste of Mudder's Milk
* If you carry Serenity with you everywhere you go
then you are a Browncoat, and you're with family.

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 10:29 AM

DARKFLY

Quote:
Originally posted by Grizwald:
Darkfly, you are most enthusiastic about your newfound love, but please have the respect not to loudly assume things and tromp over those who differ with you.

I am a relatively new fan, too - 8 months now, I guess - and am careful to be respectful of those who came before me. You would be wise to do the same.

I'm too am a relatively fan-11 months,I'm not trying to say all of my answers are the right ones most of them are my views on what I think could be the answers.

Go to http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697 for more info!

Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:00 AM

CAPTURE

In regards to #2 I read an interview with Tim Minear a while back where he said the vile of black stuff was a poision that would kill anyone that raped her...I am despertly trying to find the interview, but as of yet I can't find it, when I do I promise I will post it becasue it was filled with lots of juicy tidbits!

Capture

ain't had nothing
twixt my nethers...weren't run on batteries.
Yup...still single...

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:40 AM

KINGOFALLLONDINUM

Thanks Capture. I would love to read that interview.

Some great points here on why there was not an Alliance cruiser in the movie.

It is one of those nitpicky things for me. I just think they could have worked one in somewhere in the movie and it would have tied into the series nicely.

In the series, those big city ships just cast an ominous pall over everything when they showed up.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:42 AM

MSG

Welcome:) Those were great questions. I'd have to say I think the Tams are a wealthy enough family that they don't really see their children as people. ( I've had some erious experience with this) they see the kids as reflections/extensions of themselves. Children are expected to do what they are told and to bring glory to their family name. I honestly think the Tams believe River is in a school for the gifted and that Simon is just being difficult. I also think they don't value either child and just see what they want to see. A doctor in a prestigious hospital and a gifted girl who will one day make a good marriage. That's all they see and all they care to see. For them kids are like toy dolls you can put on the shelf or dress in pretty clothes or make them into whoever you see them as.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:28 PM

DUSTERMCGAVIN

Capture, I think this is the article you were thinking about with Tim's comments:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=14960

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:48 PM

KINGOFALLLONDINUM

Great! Thanks for that Duster.

And thanks to all of you for the warm welcome.

As for the episode Minear talks about, wow, that is very dark. Probably too dark for the series. It could have been done very well, of couse, but sheesh, that is taking the series down a particularly traumatic line.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:53 PM

CAPTURE

Yea...I'm pretty sure that is the interview, thanks for finding it!

Capture

ain't had nothing
twixt my nethers...weren't run on batteries.
Yup...still single...

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:56 PM

SHINYTRINKET

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done. I know there are many new fans who came to the 'verse via the movie first, so their reactions are sure to be different.

Actually, I saw the BDM first, and was underwhelmed; I figured it was because I was unfamiliar with the show and the characters. Then I saw the show, and it immediately clicked with me. The music, the acting, the relationships...you name it--I think the show far outshines the movie. Not that I dislike the movie now that I've gone back and watched it again...but the series resonates more with me.

*************************************************
If you eat a live toad in the morning, nothing worse will happen to you all day.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:29 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done.

Now that's not true. I've watched Firefly since the first episode to hit the air (which was, of course, the second episode.) Since I'm not a Joss worshipper I guess you must think me a liar, but I don't see anything wrong with the film.

I know that the way we see it in the film isn't the way intended. I've read the original version of the Serenity (episode) script and if that were the version aired I would agree that there is a break in continuity. However as it stands on screen I don't see anything wrong with it.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:34 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyTrinket:
The music, the acting, the relationships...you name it--I think the show far outshines the movie. Not that I dislike the movie now that I've gone back and watched it again...but the series resonates more with me.

If that can be said to be an issue with the movie than I do have one because I feel the same way.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:35 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I agree with CTC. I like the movie equally with the show. But I also see them as separate entities. I don't look at the movie as a continuation of the show and therefore don't carry any baggage into it.

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 4:49 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done.

Now that's not true. I've watched Firefly since the first episode to hit the air (which was, of course, the second episode.) Since I'm not a Joss worshipper I guess you must think me a liar, but I don't see anything wrong with the film.

I know that the way we see it in the film isn't the way intended. I've read the original version of the Serenity (episode) script and if that were the version aired I would agree that there is a break in continuity. However as it stands on screen I don't see anything wrong with it.

He said he doubts if there is many. Please note that he is not saying that they don't exist. Just that he doubts that they exist in great numbers.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 5:05 PM

CAROLJUDE

The Tams reminded me of the parents of a good friend of mine. Very wealthy and very into presenting exactly the perfect image of themselves to everyone. River's comment about 'meddling' at the beginning of the BDM made me think of my friend, who was quite outspoken and curious about everything (although no genius, as he himself would admit ;) From my own instincts and evidenced not at all in the show, I got the impression that River was the type of teenager who made her parents nervous - not the typical 'riding in cars with boys' sort of thing, but the type that might start an argument at a dinner party with a distinguished guest, ask too many questions, make waves. I think they were thrilled to have a place to send her away to, away from their carefully constructed world. That they could probably brag to their friends about their brilliant daughter being in a special Alliance school was a nice perk as well. The way they refused to consider Simon's fears and discoveries speaks to their desire to hold onto their life of wealth and prestige at all cost. Mr. Tam pretty much disowning Simon over trying to rescue her pretty much proves it. Imagine taking issue with your child for attempting to save the life of your other child...

The rest? I dunno. Everything everyone's said sounds plausible.

Walk tall, or don't walk at all...

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 5:22 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

King, I doubt if there are many Browncoats who don't have at least one issue with the film, of those of us who saw the series first at least. If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done.

Now that's not true. I've watched Firefly since the first episode to hit the air (which was, of course, the second episode.) Since I'm not a Joss worshipper I guess you must think me a liar, but I don't see anything wrong with the film.

I know that the way we see it in the film isn't the way intended. I've read the original version of the Serenity (episode) script and if that were the version aired I would agree that there is a break in continuity. However as it stands on screen I don't see anything wrong with it.

He said he doubts if there is many. Please note that he is not saying that they don't exist. Just that he doubts that they exist in great numbers.

You're right, SigmaNunki. I'm a Browncoat from the first episode on FOX, have seen the series at least twenty times so far, and saw the BDM twice in pre-screenings, and at least twelve times since then in its finished form. I witnessed quite a few people voicing their displeasure with various aspects of the film months before it premiered in September 2005. I'm not saying that the majority were saying they did not like it, just that there were several elements that were hard for them to accept. My personal opinion of Serenity has changed a lot over all those viewings, and I now consider it a very good film, but I am not blind to its faults and it is not perfect. However, make no mistake, I am still a Browncoat, and always will be.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:22 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
He said he doubts if there is many. Please note that he is not saying that they don't exist. Just that he doubts that they exist in great numbers.

I was focusing on, "If there are, they either are lying or they are total Joss worshippers who are afraid to voice any displeasure with anything he has ever done." If when 300 people say a thing it is either a lie or the result of total Joss worship surely when one person says the same thing it is either a lie or the result of total Joss worship.

Or is there some cut off line, is there some magic number where they're neither lying nor Joss worshiping but if one more person joins in they're lying or Joss worshiping?

What if I get two groups of 3/4s that many (below the number thus it is honest) and then combine them (above the number by a bunch thus dishonest.)

I mean it seems just silly to say that many people would be lying if they said something but if only a few said the same thing it would be true.

Maybe it seems silly because I'm tired, I'll be back with sleep.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:33 PM

NOSADSEVEN

Welcome, KoaL! Warning: this place can become an obsession unto itself, so watch out!

Quote:
Originally posted by KingofallLondinum:
I have to say I totally missed the Blue Sun logo in the movie. Don't see how.

They weren't terribly conspicuous. In addition to those mentioned, there were a couple of random crates marked with the logo and one of the bottles that gets thrown during the River's bar scene (that someone only noticed because they happened to pause the movie on the one frame that shows it when they went to take a bathroom break or something).

Quote:
I've always had a problem with how hostile Mal is toward Simon at the start of the movie. It works from a stand alone movie viewpoint. Certainly helps set up Mal's character arc.

And in the DVD commentary Joss explains a little that things are not going well for Mal, Book is gone, Inara's gone and Mal's lost his bearings.

But for me, it just conflicts too much with how the series ended. Plus, in Safe when Simon asks Mal why he came back for them, Mal says "you're part of my crew," but in the movie he tells him he's not part of the crew.

To address a specific point, I don't see Mal actually telling Simon he's not a part of the crew in the movie (though the line certainly does leave that impression), rather that it is up to his discretion who is and who isn't - so don't push him. I see it as more of a threat.

But, in general, I was able to accept Mal's change in disposition much easier once I stopped looking at how things were different and tried to focus on why they were different and what that meant. That is, I took the very inconsistancies that were bothering me, and looked at them as exposition almost - demonstration of how badly things had been going for Mal.

I saw the movie at one of the advance screenings before the comics came out, so I was especially anxious for their arrival to help bridge that gap. And they do to some extent, though not quite as thoroughly as I'd like.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:34 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I apologize for the way I worded that statement originally. I'm sure there are a lot of people who totally love everything Joss has done and are not lying about that fact. I love Buffy, Angel and Firefly, with Firefly being my favorite, but even it is not perfect. I have seen evidence of a lot of people talking differently about the movie now than they did after they first saw it, and I'm one of them. But my bet would be that the majority still like the series more than the film, and that is due to one or more elements of the film they felt didn't jive with the series, either continuity wise or in terms of character development or character interaction. In any case, I would hope we can have disagreements about specific things in the movie (or series) but still consider ourselves fellow Browncoats.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 10:54 AM

CAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by CarolJude:
The Tams reminded me of the parents of a good friend of mine. Very wealthy and very into presenting exactly the perfect image of themselves to everyone. River's comment about 'meddling' at the beginning of the BDM made me think of my friend, who was quite outspoken and curious about everything (although no genius, as he himself would admit ;) From my own instincts and evidenced not at all in the show, I got the impression that River was the type of teenager who made her parents nervous - not the typical 'riding in cars with boys' sort of thing, but the type that might start an argument at a dinner party with a distinguished guest, ask too many questions, make waves. I think they were thrilled to have a place to send her away to, away from their carefully constructed world. That they could probably brag to their friends about their brilliant daughter being in a special Alliance school was a nice perk as well. The way they refused to consider Simon's fears and discoveries speaks to their desire to hold onto their life of wealth and prestige at all cost. Mr. Tam pretty much disowning Simon over trying to )escue her pretty much proves it. Imagine taking issue with your child for attempting to save the life of your other child...

The rest? I dunno. Everything everyone's said sounds plausible.

Walk tall, or don't walk at all...

It occurs to me to wonder if there was, at that time, any reason to worry except the letters Simon had received from River. Simon saw a coded message in them, although they must have been censored by the Academy. The censor obviously did not see a message in them, or he would not have passed them. Perhaps is should not be that surprising that when Regan and Gabriel read them they did not see the message either.

River wrote the message so that it could only be understood by her brother, the person who knew her best.

If she could do that, she could certainly write a message that would scare Simon to death, without worrying anyone else, and I wonder if that is what Regan and Gabriel thought had happened.

They may have thought that River was playing a (cruel) joke on Simon.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 2:50 PM

INTERL0PER

Welcome! I too am a freshly minted Browncoat, it's great to see so many joining the cause :D Each time I have watched Safe, I have come away with the same impression CarolJude gave; the Tams were too preoccupied with keeping their lives uncomplicated and possibly maintaining their status and connections with the social elite. If you stop to think about it, aren't there a lot of us that if we're honest with ourselves want to keep things simple and not get tangled up in the ugliness of the world around us, even when the stakes are high? I was looking last week during my latest viewing for that "conspiratorial" thing, but I just didn't come away with that.
Keep Flyin'!

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 3:22 PM

THOLO

The book helps too.

Keep Flying!!

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 3:41 PM

RMMC

All hail, KingofallLondinum!!

Sorry...I just had to do that.

Welcome to our bit of the 'verse! Let me offer you an Irish whiskey to sip, if you've a mind to.

Wow...good questions. For the Tams I've always seen them as the 'hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil' types. They wouldn't see the truth even it it ate half their leg, because they didn't want to. If they believed River was being hurt, then they'd be having to ask some uncomfortable questions about the government. The same government they just whole heartedly supported in a war. After seeing what happened to the browncoats, they were certainly not going to start throwing stones.

The thing I really wonder about is why, since River was incredibly intelligent (kind of a once in a few hundred years type intelligent) did the government waste that intelligence by experimenting on it? Wouldn't you think they'd use someone smart, but not mindboggling intelligent? It's like using DaVinci as a lab rat.

Banner courtsey of Aim2Misbehave (Thank you!!)
********
RMMC
"Those grenades?"
"Captain don't want 'em."
"Jayne, we're robbing the place, we're not occupying it."

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 3:41 PM

WALKERHOUND

Quote:
Originally posted by RimGirl:
Re: The Tams I vote nefarious. If you had any doubt at all about the safety of your child, wouldn't you try to see her? And being refused, wouldn't all your warning signals go off?B]

ya you should be willing to try anything for the safety of your child or to put it another way risqué anything. but what if that means you have to risqué another child to try and save the first one?

i've always said my take on the tam 'rent's was fear. thay had lost one child (when thay realized something was fishy i have no idea) and thay were getting ready to loss the other one.
.

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Sunday, October 8, 2006 4:00 PM

NOTYOLANDA

Hi,
Welcome to the Firefly 'verse.
For your question number 2, the antiaging drug would make sense with Inara's reaction to Mal talking about having an whole bunch of children in the Mrs. Reynolds episode. She gets really upset at the topic. If she is really old, she can't have children. If he wants them, she can't be with him. Elaine

Please! Nobody died last time!

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