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Originally posted by Tristan:
Causal, interesting atheist definitions. Not sure what you mean by faith in that context, though. I have faith in things, even without having a god to base the faith on; faith in myself and faith in others. Dogmatic atheist may not be the best way to describe those of us who do not believe there is a higher power, although it is kind of funny!

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Y'all have been great. Much more civil than some of the RWED's. Now thats hell.

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Originally posted by yinyang:

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Y'all have been great. Much more civil than some of the RWED's. Now thats hell.

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I agree wholeheartedly!

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:

Alright, brain is tired. Talkin' out my ass so I'll shut up now.

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Originally posted by Whitefall:
I'm athiest. I respect and kinda envy how people get that comfort out of religion, but i just cant wrap my brain around it.

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Science and math are as abstract as God and Allah. Yet we put so much stock in 2+2 and E=Mc2.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Basically while I do not believe in a god I admit the possibility that there is one, but I don't care anyway.

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Well said Fred. Wasn't that well said?

I'm an atheist, I don't agonize over it or reason it out on a daily basis or anything. It just seems obvious to me, and I enjoy what I experience of the `verse. What's beyond me, what I can't see or understand, I just don't worry about. That's worked just fine.

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I feel much the same although I have never considered myself an a true atheist. I am a firm believer in you reap what you so.

I like to help people, always have I just have trouble accepting help myself. Although I have never been afraid to ask a question if I do not know something, I strongly believe that ignorance is no excuse for failure, especially if there is someone with more knowledge of a subject than yourself.

I suppose this is a reason why I have no trouble with what other people believe, so long as they do not try and force it upon me. I am quite happy to engage them in a discussion, but as other people have said tend to find that you loose friends this way. But as a wise person I know has said to me, a true friend isn't going to leave you stranded just because they can't convince you to believe what they believe.





Why have they taken the sky from ME

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I actually ended up taking a 2 month break from fff.net because of RWED. I spent a lot of time there and couldn't stand to hang around the people in there any longer.

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Originally posted by yinyang:
It's understandable. I mostly lurk in RWED anyway - people take some things too personally. Of course, there are the others that purposely insult one another...

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I chose non-belief because your followers were a)unconvincing, b)strange, or c)scary; and, the beliefs themselves were uncomfortable. So there.

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Just like 2+2 and the theory of relativity, religion and dogma are also controllable, repeatable, and very useful tools. They are based on neccessity and usefulness of men.

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That is my point. We can argue for eternity and end up running the same circle. How is science concrete if there is no one to observr it,

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Science has hinted that the earth will pretty much be destroyed again, and life may or may not reappear. With no one to observe or calculate, math and science are as useless as bone awls and stone axes.

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Originally posted by DonCoat:
Here's an amusin' tale. A friend of mine was drafted back in the 1960s. He was required to name his religion so that it could be placed on his dog tags for the convenience of the chaplains. Being an atheist, he answered "none". Nope, that wouldn't do. "Atheist," he tried. No ruttin' way. Nor "Agnostic". Seems the Army wasn't going to allow any of *those* in its foxholes.

Finally he tried "Humanist". That was accepted. He has those dog tags to this day.

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Originally posted by fredgiblet:

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Originally posted by DonCoat:
Here's an amusin' tale. A friend of mine was drafted back in the 1960s. He was required to name his religion so that it could be placed on his dog tags for the convenience of the chaplains. Being an atheist, he answered "none". Nope, that wouldn't do. "Atheist," he tried. No ruttin' way. Nor "Agnostic". Seems the Army wasn't going to allow any of *those* in its foxholes.

Finally he tried "Humanist". That was accepted. He has those dog tags to this day.

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Actually I've heard of things like this, from what I have heard it really depends not on the Army, but rather the specific person that he was giving his information to. I have heard of people who were forced to put a religion on their dog tags, then later went to someone else to get new tags and got them with "Atheist" or "None".

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written by cozen:
The most significant portion of my respect for those of the Jewish faith is that they do not actively seek to convert others to their system of belief. That speaks to me of respect, and I admire respectful behaviour.

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written by fredgiblet
A little more in depth, I believe that all of our religions are wrong because they are made by people trying to explain natural phenomena.

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written by nvghostrider
Thanks for the thread. It helps for those of us who don't really fit in a specific rhealm of religiosity.
There is no real name for religion to our people. It was so intertwined with the lives of the people that it was never named. Hanen't even researched a label for it. Lets see. It is monotheologic, in tune with nature, has good and evil, various rituals, prayer, and meditation.Not really looking for a label. Just like living and dying. It just is.

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written by Tristan:
I am tolerant of all religions, so long as no one tries to tell me I'm going to hell or try to "put me on the path of righteousness"

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written by Tristan
I love sitting down over coffee to discuss things like this with people of all types, but something someone says gets misconstrued, and the next thing you know there's a huge arguement about who's right and who's wrong...oy!

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written by casual
The philosophical atheists solve this problem (in a way) by claiming that there is no sound (that is, logically valid with true premises) argument for God's existence; therefore, there is no good reason for believing in God. This is an interesting position, because it does not deny that God exists--merely that there's no good reason to believe that he does.

The dogmatic atheist, on the other hand, believes that there is no such entity as God at all. But because, as you pointed out, "God exists" is non-falsifiable, they must hold this belief on faith without empirical evidence. So in a way, it would appear that to be dogmatically atheist requires faith after all.

Interesting, no?

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written by paganpaul
On Samhain (Halloween) we believe that the veil between the worlds is thinnest, and we often perform a rite called the Wild Hunt, in which a doorway is dedicated to those that have gone ahead before us, and they are invited to visit with us for a short time.

I could tell you all stories of things I've seen at this time, but most of you wouldn't believe them anyway.

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written by casual
First off, faith. Faith is too much associated with religious--and especially Christian--sentiments. While that is one of the definitions of faith (2a1 and 2a2, http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/faith ), I like 2b1 best, because it is more broadly applicable: "firm belief in something for which there is no proof" (where proof is something like empirical evidence or a deductively sound argument). Now, if we grant that the premiss "There is a God" is non-falsifiable and non-provable, the corresponding "It is not the case that there is a God" is also non-falsifiable and non-provable (because if it were provable and proven, then the premiss "There is a God" would be effectively falsified). So if one believes that it is not the case that there is a God, they believe something for which there can be no proof. And if someone believes something for which there is no proof, then they have faith, according to the definition that I'm working with (just like the Theist who believes that it is the case that there is a God, in spite of a lack of proof). I'd like to avoid making "faith" be anything more mystical than it has to be--both the theist and the dogmatic atheist have faith, on these terms.

And on to the whole "dogmatic" thing. I use the term dogma according to defintion 1a: "something held as an established opinion" ( http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/dogma ); and dogmatic defintion 2 is simply "of or related to dogma". If one believes that it is not the case that there is the God, in spite of the lack of deductive or empirical truth--if one takes on faith that there is no God--then this has become something held as an established opinion. Again, the word dogma is very much attached to religious beliefs, but that is not the full scope of the word.

In any event, I use the terms "faith" and "dogma" to distinguish between mere philosophical atheism (which holds that there can be no proof of God) and the stronger position that holds that there is, in fact, no such entity.

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written by Tristan
I, too, am enjoying this thread. Glad we can all do this without name-calling!

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written by msg
I think almost all religions have the right idea and the wrong implementation. I believe in god, I believe he is good and loving, and I believe that with that love he can accept anyone any and any way of belief so long as the person held true to what they believed in ( practice what you preach)

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written by msg
oh and EngineAngel...do you make latkes and kugel?? mmmm I love noodle kugel( not sure if I am spelling that correctly)especially the edges when they go all crunchy. ( I am such a food slut)

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written bt Mal4Prez
Edit: sorry, don't mean to be hijacking with the science/religion argument. I just find it so interesting! But it's 5, so I'll stop now.

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Originally posted by EngineAngel:

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written by fredgiblet
A little more in depth, I believe that all of our religions are wrong because they are made by people trying to explain natural phenomena.

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I understand what you’re saying but actually, Judaism was not created by man; it was created by God. That is, God wrote the Torah and basically created the religion. Of course, that depends on faith as well. Just saying. Of course, the Torah and Judaism in general is all about interpretation, so…technically, some of the different aspects of the religion could be false. But the basis is said to come straight from God. Again, totally based on faith.

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Originally posted by Fizzix:

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Originally posted by Whitefall:
I'm athiest. I respect and kinda envy how people get that comfort out of religion, but i just cant wrap my brain around it.

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Bwah, I've always wondered if there was anyone just like me!

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May not be smart, and it may not please you, but you're definitely gonna see what I have to say.

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I mean, where here aren't we? Why do we have to have wars and arguments over how we got here?

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written by fredgiblet
And I understand your position, but every religion claims more or less the same thing. What it comes down to is that you have to have faith that the first person with the Torah, Quran, Bhagavad Gita, etc. actually got it from God and didn't make it up themselves. I have never seen anything to make me believe that that is true.

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Good point. I am countered.

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Originally posted by stinkingrose:
She said that she'd been at the ER with her father and someone in the next bed had been telling the nurse that she was a practicing witch. The nurse tried to get her to put something else down, and the patient refused. Our boss said she couldn't believe it, practicing witch? "I mean, what is the world coming to?" was the next phrase out of her mouth.

I felt like saying something along the lines of "you mean when people can state their religious beliefs without fear?"

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Rev. Lovejoy: You see Homer, you have friends of every faith, be they Christian, Jewish, or... Miscelaneous.

Apu: I am a Hindu. There are a hundred and seventy million of us in America alone.

Rev. Lovejoy: Isn't that super.

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