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it is merely to stand in the way of Utopia and the desire of tyrants to impose happiness on people whether they like it or not.

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Originally posted by zoid:

Hitler had some plans for 'social engineering', too, and they involved a homogeneous mindset on the part of The People, as in the Alliance. I'm glad that my forefathers laid their lives on the line to stop Hitler's plans to create a 'perfect world

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Originally posted by discariot:
"Irony" or "joke" ringing a bell here? Apparently I didn't do well with either. Ack! That was bad, wasn't it? Back to lurking then.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't get the fuss.

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Originally posted by zoid:

I mean, are we intelligent, adaptable humans, or are we cattle to be domesticated and herded?

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Originally posted by nosadseven:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
I don't get the fuss.

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Here! Here! (Or is it, "Hear! Hear!"?)

The guy said that it would be villified as "fascist". He didn't say it was fascist, and he put the term in quotes - implying an incorrect use of it.

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Originally posted by ECAmber:
...

Countries like Germany and Italy, who also faced similar hardships economically were not so lucky and fell to dictatorships.

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But the Alliance, Parliment (which is never said to be in power through a voting system), the Academy and even the Comapanion Guild do seem fascist to some small degree.

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
The reason he called it conservative is because it states clearly that governments should not interfere too much with people's lives. BTW - That is what us crazy "Right Wing" people believe. Let the people govern themselves.

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Originally posted by ECAmber:
and even the Comapanion Guild do seem fascist to some small degree.

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Originally posted by Shiny:

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
The reason he called it conservative is because it states clearly that governments should not interfere too much with people's lives. BTW - That is what us crazy "Right Wing" people believe. Let the people govern themselves.

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Unless it has to do with sexual freedom, medical marijuana, stem cell or climate change research, gay marriage, state and local education decisions, communications privacy, or abortion, where the Federal Nanny State is obviously needed to keep us in line. :P

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I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Originally posted by bad2verse:
I think the author ought to at least know what a fascist really IS before using the word.. they can't decide between the Webster definition, or the popular definition from Mussolini.

'Prolly the same folks that said the (Butchered) movie "Starship Troopers" was about fascism (It HAD to be, they wore tall boots and trench coats!)

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
Like I said, I don't want this to be a debate. But any government should put SOME limits on people. The reason we can vote is so that WE can decide what those limits are. I'm all for putting all those things you mentioned to a vote.

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
That is what us crazy "Right Wing" people believe. Let the people govern themselves. I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but the Left Wing wants the government to be involved in everything.

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Originally posted by Teachdaire:
Actually Starship Troopers is set in a totaltarian fascist state (only citizens can vote or have kids, and the quickest way to become a citizen is to enlist). Check out the book if you want to go further...

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
Like I said, I don't want this to be a debate. But any government should put SOME limits on people. The reason we can vote is so that WE can decide what those limits are. I'm all for putting all those things you mentioned to a vote.

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Originally posted by YLess:
If only people did that, it would stop so many soccer mums who haven't the 'balls' to stop their kids doing something going and trying to get the government to stop it (Snip).

Edit: this was supposed to quote BAD2VERSE :/

Edit 2: sorry if I seem a bit off-topic, I'm just trying to avoid political debates.

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Originally posted by traveler:
What makes fascism so frightening is that people like Hitler and Himmler actually believed their own words. As mentioned above they came at a time when the world was in serious shape and people were hungry for anything to improve their lives.

It is true the Nazi party was elected to govern the people of Germany. Only after getting dominant in the government did they start taking dictatoral powers. If you put bread in a humgry mans hands he will seldom ask where it came from. And people did not complain as Hitler took full control because he brought bread. Stained with blood, but no one asked why.

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Originally posted by micjwelch:

Like I said, I don't want this to be a debate. But any government should put SOME limits on people. The reason we can vote is so that WE can decide what those limits are. I'm all for putting all those things you mentioned to a vote.

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Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
If we will not resist what the Government does, and simply roll over and go with everything they say, then that is more Facist than anything else. A DEMOCRACY (which is the U.S.A.) means that the people have an option to resist what the Government does.(Snip)
-Danny

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Originally posted by antisocialist1:
I for one would have to say that most goverments are corupt but I have no quams with them rulling because in the end people make their own desitions. So even though I dont agree with the magority of govermental sistems I wouldnt say that were anti goverment we all just really love this tv searies.


the only reall antisocialist

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Originally posted by bad2verse:
Actually we're a "Republic" with a Democratic form of government ("And to the Republic, for which it stands...").

There's a BIG difference.. WE elect our representitives to make decisions for us, hopefully based on the will of the people.. but we expect those leaders to be more informed about issues than "The People", and to make good decisions for us (Even if the decisions aren't popular). If we "Voted" on EVERYTHING (As true a Democracy would), we wouldn't ever get anything done, and since many people DON'T keep up with issues at all, it would quickly degenerate into a brawling mob... No Democracy has ever made it past the 75 year mark as a country that I know of.

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Originally posted by bad2verse:
None of this would matter if it wasn't in the article incorrectly.. we "Assume" that authors in national media outlets know their history, but the more YOU learn about History, the more you wonder where these so-called "Experts" got their educations, because they frequently butcher history unknowingly and a whole generation ends up with incorrect information... Glenn Beck on CNN the other night told a PHD "I only have one semester of college, I'm a recovering drug addict and alcoholic, but ANYONE can see ____"... and I thought "THIS guy is qualified to report national news... how????"

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
gotta agree with most of what Bad2Verse has to say about Heinlein-- I've read just about every word RAH wrote myself. I see Mal as pretty close to a Heinlein hero, individualistic, libertarian, and pretty close to anarchist.
I see a lot more in common with The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress than with Starship Troopers, but nobody's ever made a film out of TMIAHM. Maybe somebody should?

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From iFMagazine interview with Tim Minear, 8/9/05:

iF MAGAZINE: What’s next for you?

MINEAR: I’m doing another pass at MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS [an adaptation of the Robert Heinlein sci-fi novel]. It’s for producers David Hayman and Mike Medavoy. I did a pass of that last year, turned it in and they had some notes and they came to me this year and we talked about what the next pass would be. They were giving me their notes and what they were saying, “maybe you can do this, or do that,” and in my infinite wisdom said, “I have an idea, why don’t I do a whole new version. Why don’t I throw this out and start over.” They were like “you would do that?” And I’m like “yeah,” so that’s what I’m getting ready to do now.

iF MAGAZINE: Is it hard to adapt Heinlein?

MINEAR: Yes. Maybe HAVE SPACESUIT AND TRAVEL, which is really about that one guy, maybe that would be easier, but this is about a revolution. It’s big and it has a lot of really complex political ideas. It’s hard in that respect. How do you personalize this? There’s a lot of talking in the book – theoretical talking about Libertarian ideals and political structure and that sort of thing – how do you take that and make it immediate and dramatic and emotional? How do you say that stuff through scenes and action, as opposed to characters sitting around and having a conversation? That’s difficult. The other thing that is difficult is that there is also a certain amount of psychological pressure that I am trying to remove from myself when you’re adapting something like Heinlein. This book is so important to so many people and you don’t want to f*ck it up. So there’s that. You want to keep true to spirit of it, and you want to take this enormously long book, that takes place over a long period of time and try to do a version of it that will play for two hours on a movie screen. The other thing is to make sure the powers that be in Hollywood don’t force you to turn it into some Marxist screed on socialism, when Heinlein was a Libertarian and it’s about free-market capitalism. You want to try and not make it about an evil corporation. That’s the trick.

iF MAGAZINE: It’s just in the script-stage? No official greenlight yet?

MINEAR: Exactly. What they want to do is take it out to big name directors and they’ve named a couple of directors and it would be awesome if that happened. The people who optioned this book – Mike Medavoy and David Hayman – optioned it because they liked the book and the ideas are inspiring particularly the idea of retelling the American Revolution from this sci-fi point of view.

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Yeah. The most effective "true" democracy I know of is fictional, and that was the Borg Collective, and even their foreign policy was. . . bad.

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Originally posted by Teachdaire:
Actually Starship Troopers is set in a totaltarian fascist state (only citizens can vote or have kids, and the quickest way to become a citizen is to enlist). Check out the book if you want to go further...

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Originally posted by bad2verse:
(Which is why I said the movie butchered his book).

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Originally posted by nosadseven:
(Snip)Glenn Beck's point is not that he is smarter and therefore informing the public from his wisdom. His point is that he is just a regular flawed guy, asking questions of the PhD, and representing an honest and personal point of view. He's never claimed to be a reporter.

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And on Beck, just for the record, I believe he's just a recovering alcoholic, not drug addict (not that it matters that much). (snip)

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Originally posted by CattleorCatalyst:
(Snip) One last thing, in response to some of our Conservative friends. Y'all have consistently stated that Conservatives, Right-Wingers, whatever you want to call 'em, support a decrease in government activity in the lives of its citizens. Yet, as Shiny so eloquently stated, it was the Conservatives, not the Democrats, who wanted to tell Terry Shiavo's husband what to do and take away his freedom of choice. It was the Republicans, not the Democrats, who prevented women from voting, African Americans from becoming full-fledged citizens, oppose allowing women the right to have an abortion, oppose the right of homosexuals to marry, and the list goes on. In each of these instances, the Republicans involve the government in our lives and the Democrats try to protect our rights, and our independence, by keeping the government out.

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