Male and Female Imponderables--All Along the Watchtower

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:54 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Because of all the negative posts I read back through to find the cause and found Chris' post. I have spent a fair bit of time this morning reading this "theory" and doing a bit of "research" amongst men and women of my acquaintance. These are all long term "friends". All of them very close. I have had an intimate relationship with a couple of the men. All of the men are heterosexual. One of the women is a lesbian. ALL of them have read this theory and all of them agree with it for the most part. We all also agreed that it was evident that the writer was obviously bitter. What I am having such a hard time dealing with is why this "theory" has provoked such a negative reaction? I have no problem with it. There are some men of my acquaintance I will never want to sleep with. There are some that I will always wish I could and vice versa. I have always been honest with men in that regard and try to make it very clear to them how I feel, sometimes, regrettably I have failed in that regard. I guess being raised in a family of only boys and having mostly male friends puts me at an advantage. But just because you disagree with this theory doesn't make it wrong. My agreeing doesn't make it right. But - send it to every man you know - and then ask them if it is true. If they are honest and not Gay I bet you will find that the majority will say it mostly is. And I thought this was the imponderables thread where things of this nature could be discussed? Why attack someone because they asked a legitimate question? Do I like everything Chris has to say - NO, but does that mean he should be denied the right to ask a question? Thats all he did. He asked a question. It could have been ignored. It could have been argued against on its merits as I see some tried to do, or it could have been met with personal attacks - which of course it was. Lighten up people. Mention has been made that FMF sightings are rare. Well now you all know why. ---- Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn! "We don't fear the reaper"

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:55 AM

MSG

Well Chris- it may be that you talk of sitting around hating women or it might be the somewhat bitter and resentful tone that I percieved from your comments. That combined with your self assessed 3 led me to believe you aren't particularly confident or positive/upbeat when you approach women. Lack of confidence and a that bitterness can tend to make women uncomfortable or less interested. I speak only for myself, but if I'm approached by a guy or engaged in conversation by a guy and I notice that he's got a pervading attitude of " I know you're gonna reject me so just get it over with" or I sense he views me as a "bitch" before I even open my mouth, I am less likely to give him the time of day. I don't know you so I can't say how you approach women or what attitude or demeanor you have. I am simply responding using my perception of the way you come across based on your statements. Also, I'm just trying to give you another point of view. Sometimes it helps with others point something out and sometimes not so much. I would point out that I was polite and attempted both humor and kindness and you seem very put off by it. We do discuss male and female issues, but we seem to have given this one enough play and our opinions have all been stated so I was just suggesting, albeit in a trivial manner, that we move along to more positive topics or to topics we have't covered before...that just seems more productive. I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:15 AM

MSG

FMF- I love you hon and I'm not sure what we said that made you feel we were all intolerant, but these are some of the things Chris said and I have to say, most people would take offense. I went back and re-read and for the most part, until it became a bit of an argument between Tristan and Chris, everyone appeared to have been responding to their dislike/disagreement of the theory...but here are some thing said prior to the argument that may have cause the issue or lead to ( at least my ) belief that he's not overmuch fond of women and has a low opinion of himself. I don't think it was the theory that provoked anything more than discussion.I would also point out I have not said anything unkind to him, nor have most people here. 1-But I went on expecting my personality to win me something more than I deserved. 2=I realized that I'm a piece of shit just like everyone else. 3-Likewise, I will certainly not pursue women out of my league and allow them to shoot me down, keeping me at arms length like some horny animal constantly trying to hump their leg. 4-Physically appalling though I may be, I am very athletic, and have proven my mettle in several different REAL combat situations, from fire fights to fist fights. The finest women would have been thrown to my feet in ancient times. 6-The only "conclusion" that I see reached is one of two: 1) A couple people on this thread have attained the ideal of how people are expected/claim to feel and function to qualify as being "good" or decent. Conversely, I'm just a peice of shit who refuses to beleive in goodness. 2) I'm the only one being honest with themselves, and everyone else is saying the usual BS to act more "mature" than they actually are. 7-I'm not going to claim either one to be true. Suffice to say, I REALLY wanted to meet that stereotype and be a "decent" person for a long time, but I'm willing to admit that after a series of letdowns that I just found it to be unrealistic. So my opinion on this matter is that many of you are just not being honest with yourselves. 8As I recall, I made an open statement about my opinion on how women wearing revealing clothes making them a target for rapists, and was eventually accused by one person of being a prospective rapist myself. You all over-reacted and made a giant wolf-hunt out of nothing. Most of the time, I just sit around hating women, but every so often I get a hair up my ass about something and feel the need to ask questions I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:21 AM

WHITEFALL

FMF!!! Bah.... now I feel bad. I was pissed at the ladder thing, not Chris, I really dont know what happened between everyone else and Chris. Anyhoo, the ladder, while it may have accurately described women's friend/nonfriend system, (which I believe does exist in women to a greater extent than men) it also described men as not only being pretty much driven by sex, but also measuring women and potential relationships on the basis of looks and sex. And that I have an issue with. Especially when pretty much all the things we talk about in here, love, compassion, trust... are lumped into a "What women say they care about but dont" section. Thus, I got pissed. And I still think it's mysoginist , no matter how accurate the basic tenets of it may have been. Sorry we failed at being nice FMF! "But, these strong women characters?" "Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon. "We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:24 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

MsG I never said you were all intolerant. And I did make the statement that some were arguing on the merits. Is Chris an ASS. Yes. But then on occasion so is everyone else on this forum myself included. I thought it was an interesting question and I have to admit that I am amazed that so many disagree with it, because it seems fairly accurate to me. Am I proud of the fact that it seems fairly accurate. No. But there it is. What I am objecting to is the immediate turn to personal insults when one has a disagreement. This is what I have always objected to and I will continue to object to it. I myself have poked a troll or two when it is obvious that is what the troll wants. But I never go out of my way to insult or hurt the feelings of another, and I would not try to win an argument or belittle another person by doing so. This is a shiny place. We are all suppose to be so tolerant and intelligent and understanding. ---- Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn! "We don't fear the reaper"

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:24 AM

MSG

HUGS Whitefall and FMF and Chris into a lump of huggie goodness... I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:27 AM

MSG

Ah ...makes sense FMF:) You are so wise...which is why we all love having you here. OK so is any guy going to comment on my flavored lip gloss question or what??? OK I know it's silly, but I'd love to take a poll and find out how many guys like flavored lip gloss ( my fav is cherry) Ok just in a flower mood as I am stucky in a dreary rainy day with a bunch of wiggly kids who are taking a huge test ( 2 hours daily for 3 days) they hate I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:40 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:48 AM

KELKHIL

Wow that was a long catch up read! WOW! Ok where to start..... Chris - Did you ever think that the reason why women won't give you the time of day is because of conversations like this one. You come off as a womanizing, self centered pig in some of it. It should be a clue that your friends do not bring their SOs around you. I was in the military and I did not know very many people with your view on women. Yes There is alot more talk about women and sex in the military. Why you ask... We were away from home for months at a time, the adreline rush of combat kinda, well its a rush and leave it at that. That and when people get together it only takes one off color comment to go down the dark path of perversion. It does not have to be only guys in the group though, it is just the conversation. If you hate woman so much how do you ever expect to be able to love a woman? Now to a lighter note...... I want ice cream and Baileys also...please... What to buy an SO with little or no money? Story of my life. Going for a walk is a good nonpricy gift, or a picnic. Tristan - We need a catapult for the castle. Aimed at the ocean for so serious high diving er flinging. Kelkhil The Shirtless Forsaken

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:51 AM

MSG

HUGS Chrisisall:) see I knew it! Kelkil...so what's your opinion of flavored lip gloss??? Odds- you forgot to give your opinion on flavored lip gloss :) I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:53 AM

EMMARIGBY

Hi there FMF! Don't be scared off by the agro! I think you've made a fair point. The subject he raised was an interesting and valid one (which I had ambiguous feelings about - neither fully agreeing nor disagreeing) but I just knew that I would not be able to argue rationally and impartially as I know from previous posts how riled I can get by Chrismoorehead's style and personality. I therefore chose to stay out of it to avoid adding unpleasantness to the thread. It's a pity because I had some interesting things to say but I just know that I would have eventually said something I'd regret ... Anyway! Flavoured lipgloss, huh MSG?! Never tried it. Don't you find that long hair gets stuck to your face?! ___________________ Hissssssssss!

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:57 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:57 AM

TRISTAN

Magda, I know I missed saying goodnight, but...goodnight! I'll let you know about the biting! PR, Shiny! Though I never thought you needed to lose anything, but congrats! MSG, flavored lip gloss...as long as it is not something that will color my lips (assuming I'm going out in public), I love it! Especially the raspberry. Yumm... FMF! FMF is here! :hugs: Where ya been? I missed seing you around! It's not so much what he said but how he said it. He is a self-confessed "hater of women"...his posts will be tainted by this bias. I am honest with myself and I am not a homosexual, and I disagree with the ladder theory. That is not my main beef with it; I disagree with the way it was written and presented. Of course their will be people that agree and disagree with anything, but his past led me to believe that he was once again going to start problems, and after reading the contents of the link, I could pretty well imagine what was going to happen...and it did. I am sorry if you think that's intolerant. If it had been presented in anything but the slant it has, it may have been worth debating...but alas, it was not. I do not believe I turned to personal insults; I drew on past experience with the individual in question and surmised that he was here to cause trouble. I responded to that. I will be watching him and will be very pleased if he becomes one of our regular posters, as long as he does not go troll on us. MSG, thank you for that insight. I do apologize if it appears to have broken down into an argument between he and I. As far as I am concerned, I am finished talking to him, so there will be no more arguments from me. ______________________________________

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:00 AM

TRISTAN

ChrisIsAll, Amen to that! Catapult for high-diving *scribbling down notes* Shouldn't be a problem at all! Hello, again, Emma! ______________________________________

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:03 AM

PHOENIXROSE You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*comes back into thread, squeezes eyes shut, rubs forehead, sighs, open eyes again and looks around, seeing that it really is as she thought* See, it's interesting that the last time we had a conversation about the ladder theory (I hope I'm not the only one to remember that) it was open, interesting, friendly, and eye-opening in a lot of respects. Yep, funny thing, that. *wanders out to ponder the nicer thoughts of how she can become a famous sex-advice columnist and what color her new sweater should be* P.S. edit: Oh and Tristan, the pics you've seen of me were from before my breakup and ensuing comfort-food binges. I'm glad to be dropping the weight that caused. I feel better and more energetic without the extra baggage, and look a bit better, too. But thank you! http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show Universal your gratitude! The only real failure in life is not to be true to the best one knows. - Gautama Siddharta

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:04 AM

KELKHIL

Wow that was a long catch up read! WOW! Ok where to start..... Chris - Did you ever think that the reason why women won't give you the time of day is because of conversations like this one. You come off as a womanizing, self centered pig in some of it. It should be a clue that your friends do not bring their SOs around you. I was in the military and I did not know very many people with your view on women. Yes There is alot more talk about women and sex in the military. Why you ask... We were away from home for months at a time, the adreline rush of combat kinda, well its a rush and leave it at that. That and when people get together it only takes one off color comment to go down the dark path of perversion. It does not have to be only guys in the group though, it is just the conversation. If you hate woman so much how do you ever expect to be able to love a woman? Now to a lighter note...... I want ice cream and Baileys also...please... What to buy an SO with little or no money? Story of my life. Going for a walk is a good nonpricy gift, or a picnic. Tristan - We need a catapult for the castle. Aimed at the ocean for so serious high diving er flinging. Edit: Not sure on the lip gloss thing. I do not think I have ever date any one who liked any kind of make-up what-so-ever. So I do not have any referance. Sorry Kelkhil The Shirtless Forsaken

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:12 AM

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:14 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I been about Tristan. Thought I would walk the world a spell. I would suggest a trip back to the web page that theory was one. The other theories are a hoot! MsG: Never got into lip gloss myself. Not much of a makeup girl. But I could see how it might be pleasant. ---- Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn! "We don't fear the reaper"

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:21 AM

TRISTAN

FMF, I'm still glad to see you return. Ok, we've beat this one to death and back, time for a new thread. Be right back. ______________________________________

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:22 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

I'm alive. Been ill for the last five days (and I don't get sick). Still nursing myself at work so there's a bunch of catching up to do. Be back soon. Love to all.

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:24 AM

TRISTAN

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24102 Our new home. Glad to see you, NVG...been worried about you. ______________________________________

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:36 AM

MSG

Chrisisall is right the hair fling works, as does non-sticky lip gloss( more the texture of lip balm) which actually comes in more flavors. Right now I have on cherry, but I own raspberry, coffee, caramel, sugar cane, cupcake, glacee, and tart orange:)...all of which sadly makes MisterG go yuck so I take it off when I get home...It's more the texture of lip goo( as he calls it) and not the flavor that bugs him. Hmmm- catapult in the castle?? ooooooooh FMF- should we sit in a circle and await the tales of other lands??? I do hope you met many handsome men( who would obviously be blinded by your beauty and intelligence and forced to follow you to the ends of the earth)and that you plan to share tales of your wild adventures. I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:48 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote: Originally posted by msg: FMF- should we sit in a circle and await the tales of other lands??? I do hope you met many handsome men( who would obviously be blinded by your beauty and intelligence and forced to follow you to the ends of the earth)and that you plan to share tales of your wild adventures. Ah but that would be kissing and telling! ---- Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn! "We don't fear the reaper"

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:53 AM

MACAVITY

Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:48 AM

SMARTBUTDUMBBLONDE