GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Male and Female Imponderables--All Along the Watchtower

POSTED BY: TRISTAN
UPDATED: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:48
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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:51 AM

TRISTAN


New thread, same premise: ponder the imponderables!
Last thread:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24037&m=380745#380745

Post and enjoy!

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:55 AM

MSG


Happy dance of firstiness:)

OOH and something to ponder. If you had unlimited funds, what one thing would you buy to show an SO how you felt about them?

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:02 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


MSG, I'm probably not the best one to answer that right now.
However ,I did play the mega million today & dreamt of a world of financial independance for me & the little ones,minus the hubby.But if things were different I'd take him on a long trip around the world.I love to travel & sailing around the world with someone I love is an irresistable thought to me.Maybe someday...

Gotta go pick up Dylan from school now.And it just started raining too.Figures.

Bryce
****************************************

I swallowed a bug.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:13 AM

TRISTAN


Hmm. How about an island complete with a castle?

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:21 AM

MSG


LA- well how about what would you buy your kids since they are the loves of your life and all:)

Tristan...oooh a castle. Would it be in Ireland???

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:33 AM

TRISTAN


MSG, of course it would! And it would have a very large, well-stocked kitchen, too! (*none-too-subtle hint*)

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:42 AM

KELKHIL


I do not think it could be Ireland. Not being for sale and all. Besides I see Tristan walking around like the crazy Irish guy in Braveheart. Spouting off "It's my Island".

I am not sure what I would buy in that case. Never been much of a material person myself and neither is the Wifey.
Although I have always wanted my own Island. Almost bought one in Canada once. Was a great deal but I hate winter (pretty silly coming from a Michigander).
I think I would secretly have a conversation all secret squirrel (sp) like and ask. Then no matter what it was I would just go out and buy it.


Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:04 AM

MSG


Tristan- sure MisterG could be the security( he does credit card security and fraud detection) and I'd be the chef:) Anything to live in Ireland.



I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:07 AM

TRISTAN


KelKhil, well, not the entire island of Ireland...just some small inish will do me just fine.

MSG, sounds like a great plan! I'll get to saving my pennies...

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:51 AM

MSG


I say we just have our imponderables road trip and hit vegas...considering how great we all are, one of us has to be lucky enough to hit the jackpot. Then we could buy a nice island off of Ireland and build a lovely browncoat/imponderables castle. I could spend my days cooking lovely food with AnJL and our fiction writers could spin us tales, you and the theater bunch could make snazzy costumes, and everyone could join together and quietly bask in the joy that is Firefly...and if we win enough we could buy the rights from Fox and give Joss enough for at least a few glorious seasons...........ok I may have just actually found my own idea of nirvana:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:56 AM

TRISTAN


*sigh*
MSG, I think you may have created a possible nirvana for us all...thank you for that dream!

You never did tell us what you would do, MSG...?

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:01 AM

MSG


well since it's what I'd buy my So...It'd be the fastest and best computer in the world with all attendant gadgets...he'd be so happy:)

For me..see above dream of joy. I'd love to be able to stay home and cook and play with the ( fingers crossed here) baby all day and volunteer a few hours a day to work with my students.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:03 AM

TRISTAN


That's a nice thought, MSG! Let's hope that one day all of it comes to fruition! Until then, we can still dream about it!

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:19 AM

GOJIRO


Quote:

Originally posted by msg:
I say we just have our imponderables road trip and hit vegas...considering how great we all are, one of us has to be lucky enough to hit the jackpot.



If you plan said road trip for the weekend of Oct. 27th, there will be a whole passle o' Browncoats there from Gossi's serenitymovie.org board (you know, the place y'all go camping when this board goes down?).

As for me, I like the castle/island idea, but it'd have to be a floaty island...

-------
Are you an Ohio Browncoat? If so, join our Yahoo group for news and events: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly-ohio/

Wanna meet the real me now? http://www.myspace.com/gojiro42

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:26 AM

MSG


Ok I realize this is relatively random gojiro, but were you aware that there is a canned meat product available in Tokyo ( I am assuming it's meant as a joke)
"Godzilla Meat," actually 3.5 ounces of corned beef from Tokyo toy maker Takara Co., is packaged with pictures of the stomping, fire-breathing, irradiated dinosaur made famous by Toho movies that started coming out in the 1950s.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:31 AM

GOJIRO


Oh.

My.

GAWD!!!!

Bless you, msg! A friend of mine is going to Japan and asked me what I wanted. Now I can tell her -- a can of THIS!!!



-------
Are you an Ohio Browncoat? If so, join our Yahoo group for news and events: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/firefly-ohio/

Wanna meet the real me now? http://www.myspace.com/gojiro42



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:42 AM

COZEN


"All the women came and went...."

***
Know his B. Dylan, eh?

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 10:56 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


"and barefoot servants too.. "
My son's not named Dylan for nothing !

MSG -If I were rich , I'd put both boys in private school or hire some wonderful teachers on my own for them.Then we could travel to the Browncoat island.I could run the nursery ther.
Now I dream of an island named Serenity....


Bryce
********************************************

I swallowed a bug.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:03 AM

MSG


I know, when we do guided visualization in yoga I shall picture Firefly/Serenity Island and all the wonderful people and food and fun...hey I'm all for a nursery. Hope to need one of my own soon and all so I say we have a nursery where we can teach the little ones in the grand tradition of the non-alliance school:)

Gojiro- glad to help. I think MisterG has some ( military friend was stationed there) and your name made me think of it:)

)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:04 AM

ZEEK


Unlimited funds huh? Probably just a nice big house with an indoor pool and our own private movie theater with a couch for snuggling.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:07 AM

CHRISMOORHEAD


How accurate is the ladder theory?

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

It seems pretty accurate to me.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:11 AM

TRISTAN


You're back again? And you've brought the ladder with you.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:41 AM

CHRISMOORHEAD


I never really went away. Interesting discussion seems to have died down on all the forums here. I've actually been actively looking for something to say ANYTHING about, and can't seem to find it most of the time.

So here I am, talking about mostly nothing. It passes the time, and who knows? Maybe I'll actually get an answer at some point.

I just evaluated a friend with the ladder. Both he and everyone else are wondering why so many women are attracted to him since he doesn't carry the "usual" traits of an ideal mate. Closer examination reveals that:

1) The women that persue him are usually average in appearence. Rich guys mostly go for 10's, 9's and 8's, so they're the leftovers. So it makes sense that many 5-7's look to him, being a middle-middle class fellow.

2) My friend excels in being novel, and in being dis-interested in women, which is a collective 40% of attraction. The physical part seems to hinder him most of the time, which is why most women who persue him are more like 6's. 7's out of bad rationships or who just can't find someone on their level have, very often, changed their tunes as soon as someone more suitable came along.

His prospects are only getting better, too. Being in the Air Force, he's one step away from Staff sgt. and a very stable, good paying job with a future and benefits. He'll probably end up getting a 7 or an 8.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:15 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Hello everyone!
MSG - If I were rich, I would probably just use the money to get through everyday things, or helping out my family. I wouldn't want to do anything extravagant, and I wouldn't try to become famous or anything with it. I personally never have seen the appeal in having everyone know everything about your personal life, and having people you don't even know be mad at you or something. Anyways, if that kind of started to seem off-topic, I'm sorry.

------

"...and I'll just fade away..."


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:33 PM

JAMESTHEDARK


If I had lots of money, I'd kaibash my student loans so they don't hang like a weight around my neck for the rest of my life, then I'd find a nice place in the middle of nowhere in a much warmer climate, and I'd live there until I got bored. Then, I'd find a place a bit less in the middle of nowhere, still in a warmer climate, and live there until I get disgusted at the people trying to mooch my money, wonder why I bothered coming back, and head back to my little spot in the middle of nowhere.

Basically, money = place somewhere warmer. Don't get me wrong, living within spitting distance of the Atlantic Ocean is fine enough (especially in Canada. Yay near zero violant crime rate!)

Damn, I wish I lived in Australia. Warm. Friendly people, who speak English. 60% of all the venomous creatures in the world. Yup. Australia...

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:34 PM

ELDUSTO


Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
How accurate is the ladder theory?

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

It seems pretty accurate to me.



I've found it to be very accurate, unfortunately.


http://www.geocities.com/neo_ultimate_d - The Homepage
http://www.myspace.com/eldusto - The Myspace page

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:01 PM

JAMESTHEDARK


As have I. I always seem to be on the right-hand ladder.
Ah, well. That'd only be a problem if I was really trying to complicate my life.

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:16 PM

WHITEFALL


ARGHHHH!!!!!

(If you'll all recall, Rose shot me with her watergun about 16 hours ago.)

Anyhoo... I have a bunch of homework I should be doing... and I gave blood today. Go me.

and now...

"As to the first point, that of money. Well most guys know that women dig guys with money. Would Donald Trump be fucking models if he wasn't rich? That question is rhetorical. Now I don't even believe this is wrong, I think it is just nature. But I also think women who are this way (and it is almost all of you) should be honest and admit that they are basically whores, and stop saying bad things about the so-called "actual whores" who are just trying to earn an honest living."

While being a firefly fan, I have few quams about prostitution, this paragraph of that ladder thing is just insulting, and clearly written by a male. This is all the reason I need to disregard that site as gender bias . However, in the ineterest of fairness, ill brb, i'm gonna read the rest.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon.

"We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:16 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Well I'm not sure if it's necessarily "unfortunate". I've tried to be as honest with myself as possible on the issue, and only after years of sorting through my own bullshit have I come to terms with myself.

On a scale of physical appearance from one to ten, I'm probably a three or below. I'm also very very poor. Most people in my situation, bottom feeders, will accept their situation and find people of equal ranking to fuck and possibly marry. Out of desire for a combination of constant sexual availability and companionship, almost everyone is willing to compromise.

Not I, says me. All of my pursuits and the only two girlfriend's I've ever had have been very very far out of my league. The ladder kindly explains that wealth increases in importance with age, and sure enough, my "romantic" life dropped dead at 19. But I went on expecting my personality to win me something more than I deserved. To put it simple, although I am a bottom feeder, I refuse to settle for anything below a 6 in appearance.

And just like that, I realized that I'm a piece of shit just like everyone else. I felt bad at first, but really, there's no shame in having instincts, is there? Physical instincts to mate with the superior physical specimen? It's genetics, so no, it's not a shame to have them.

So why have I emphasized the word "have" twice now? Because shame is in action. I have pride and I will NOT accept less just because that's where I SHOULD be. Likewise, I will certainly not pursue women out of my league and allow them to shoot me down, keeping me at arms length like some horny animal constantly trying to hump their leg. I made a decision to not climb either ladder, and in that way I can at least believe myself to be above it, regardless of what others perceive the reality to be.

In the end, I can still boast a couple of things:
1) I was offered and rejected sex by both girlfriends on a moral grounds. To this day I remain untainted.

2) Physically appalling though I may be, I am very athletic, and have proven my mettle in several different REAL combat situations, from fire fights to fist fights. The finest women would have been thrown to my feet in ancient times.

3) I've come to terms with my nature, and thus, I've mastered it.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:47 PM

MSG


Chris dear I am baffled by your assertion of repulsiveness...short of severe physical deformity or significant facial/body dismorphism( enormous nose, cross eyes, etc) you would be in the average range ( 70% of people fall there darlin)and I have to say that the "ladder" does not take into account personal preference. There is no way to catagorically state someone is a 9 to everyone...for example Uma Thurman ...I know guys that say she's a 10 and guys who think she's a 6 and guys who think she's a 2...so personal taste and preference can vary so widely that there is no way for the "ladder" to have anything but the most general and broadranging basis in reality...sooo to cut to the chase...don't assume you're a 3 to all women everywhere and don't assume your 6-7 is a 6-7 in all guys eyes...You really can't generalize to that level... Another case in point...Orlando Bloom..I know women who think he's hot..I personally would give him a 4 at best( with beard) On this board we've constantly gone over what's attractive to us and no two people have the same answers and some are so far off as one man rating tall blond buff and tan a 10 and another rating short, plump, brunette and pale a 10...it's in the eye of the beholder far more than the wallet or an arbitrary "10"

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:47 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


Quote:

How accurate is the ladder theory?

http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

It seems pretty accurate to me.

Omg. Ok, I've been so busy the past few weeks that I haven't had a chance to do anything more than lurk here once or twice a day, and yet this has me taking the time to actually login and post.

So before I run off again, let me say this: I have a hard time taking any "theory" seriously that has so many glaring spelling and grammar mistakes. This is from the "Deconstructing the Woman's Pie Chart" page:
Quote:

Now this is a fairly accurate description, and is essentially accurate. It misses a number of fine points. By defining the 40% block as "looks" the theory had originally assumed that looks were influenced by factor's other than just phyical attraction.
I can't even continue to read that drivel. "Phyical"? "Factor's"? I'm sorry, but I can't take anyone who doesn't know the difference between "factor's" and "factors" seriously, no matter how much supposed sociology the theory is based on.

To the rest of it (not that I have any intention of reading any more than I already have), as a married woman whose entire social group is made up of guys who almost certainly want to sleep with me (I'm not being narcissistic, it's just part of being in an industry that is less than 10% female), I call BS on the whole thing. I'm not a bitch for not wanting to sleep with them, I'm married. I'm not a bitch for wanting to talk to them but not sleep with them, I'm interested in talking to other professionals in my field. And I married a guy who fulfills my intellectual needs, thank you very much.

I have a really hard time making friends with women, so the vast majority of my friends are male. Once I can get past the "yes I know you think I'm hot, but you are friends with my husband and work in the same industry as both he and I, so can we just talk as peers?" hump, things go much more smoothly and I'm able to actually be friends with these guys. I'm the only woman invited out for "beers with the guys", I'm the only woman that they'll bitch (yes, men can bitch up a storm) about their wives/girlfriends around, and I'm one of only two or three women who they'll talk business with. I happen to like that, so I go through the excruciating process of getting past the "drool" phase with every new guy I meet. I've found it's worth it.

I also take issue with the idea that "99.999% of women are bitches", as the Ladder "Theory" claims. Maybe 90% of single, late-20s-early-30s women are bitches, but even that seems high. I don't know, I got married before I turned 22, and like I said, I have trouble making friends with women. But what do you call a guy who's engaged to a woman, but talks about how little they have sex and how fat her butt has gotten behind her back, who checks out other women in bars, and who regularly goes to strip clubs? And women are "bitches" because they want to talk with dweeby guys but not sleep with them? Get a life, Ladder Boy (the guy who made the webpage, not you Chris).

~CK, running late and rushing off again.

You can't take the sky from me...

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:54 PM

SHINYKITTEN


heya all!
JamesTheDark, you should totally come to Australia! no, no, EVERYONE should come to Australia! YAY!!
(hey, can the island with the castle be a floating one, so we can just follow the summer around the world?!)

Oz is the bestest place to go if your looking for somewhere warm...we really know how to do summer here, and we have some of the best beaches in the world to cool down at too!
it is true that we have got a hell of alot of venomous critters here, but you get used to them after a while...

(hehehehe...that reminds of a scene in a Terry Pratchett book, where Death asks for a list of all the dangerous creatures in Fourecks (OZ) and after being buried in a huge pile of paper, asks for a list of the NON-venomous creatures and gets a single piece of paper that says..."some of the sheep"!)


*********************
If Cavemen and Astronauts had a fight....

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:55 PM

WHITEFALL


YAH, CK IS HERE!!!

And CK, may I just say, don't waste your time reading the rest of it. It's utter drivel.

The entire thing is complete , and reminds me why I'm a feminist: because no matter how slightly over the top I might be in the feminism, no matter how neurotic and repressive I might be, its all justified by keeping away from people like the author of that page.

Do I agree that sex may be an unavoidable biological factor in males when it comes to relationships? Yes. But do I think that males can really be happy with just a good sex life? Absolutely not.

That "theory" is essentially a description of why the divorce rate (in general. dont think I mean my folks, this thing has nothing on them) in this country is so high. If people actually think that way.... let me come full circle by saying i'm glad i'm a feminist.

*shudder*

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon.

"We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:06 PM

MSG


OK so we all agree the "ladder" guy has some serious misogynistic tendancies and need couseling immediately:)


I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:11 PM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


He also needs a good spellchecker and a copy of "The Elements of Style", ASAP.

Ok, I'm going now, really.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:12 PM

WHITEFALL


yes, i think we can agree to that.

And I always want to mention, where CK has mostly male friends, I have mostly female ones, and I've sometimes found that awkward because the woman was expecting me to be the evil misogynist when all I want is to be friends, like them. Or at least that's how I percieve it, the awkwardness.

Stupid stupidpeople.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon.

"We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:22 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Well I certainly don't agree with that!

The only "conclusion" that I see reached is one of two:

1) A couple people on this thread have attained the ideal of how people are expected/claim to feel and function to qualify as being "good" or decent. Conversely, I'm just a peice of shit who refuses to beleive in goodness.

2) I'm the only one being honest with themselves, and everyone else is saying the usual BS to act more "mature" than they actually are.

I'm not going to claim either one to be true. Suffice to say, I REALLY wanted to meet that stereotype and be a "decent" person for a long time, but I'm willing to admit that after a series of letdowns that I just found it to be unrealistic. So my opinion on this matter is that many of you are just not being honest with yourselves.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:44 PM

TRISTAN


Hello again, all.
Glad to see CK is back. We've missed you!

I also want to point out that that ladder thing is most certainly written by someone who could not get a date if they tried. Please. Somebody obviously got dumped and got pissed off, so they ran down into their basement and typed up this little thing. It's an embarrasment to anyone who has evolved past the Neanderthal stage. Please remember that this wonderful link was also brought to us by the same individual who caused quite a stir on an Imponderable thread quite awhile ago.
Chris, I am not entirely sure what your arguement is supposed to be...
Quote:

1) A couple people on this thread have attained the ideal of how people are expected/claim to feel and function to qualify as being "good" or decent. Conversely, I'm just a peice of shit who refuses to beleive in goodness.

...what???

The second point actually does more to point out your own immaturity. If you really think that every male rates every female they meet on a "fkability" scale, you need help. This may come as a shock to you, but not every male thinks about sex all the time. I'm not even going to mess with the female part of this...I'm sure one of the ladies in here will be more than happy to do so.
This is not me being dishonest with myself, nor am I trying to act "more mature" than I really am.

I'm going to try not to waste any more time on you, but I'll probably have to later.



______________________________________

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:45 PM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Quote:

Originally posted by JamesTheDark:
Damn, I wish I lived in Australia. Warm. Friendly people, who speak English. 60% of all the venomous creatures in the world. Yup. Australia...



We only have 60%? - I thought it was more like 90% ... we must be slipping...

EDIT: Ok - been reading the rest and what I was forming to say in my mind was pretty well covered by Tristan - thank you! but might I add that you do sound so very young Chris and you also sound like you think you need to know everything - it is OK to find things out along the way - in fact that is kind of the only OK way of knowing things - I probably grabbed on to theories that struck a chord with me at the time and decided that was the way of the world when I was young... especially in the bohemianesque coffee bars of St Kilda when I was a serious Drama student - but then you go home - think about it all and decide that most of those people shovelling this out are just 'w*nk*rs'... Sorry you took it so seriously - now just relax, remember you are neither an idiot, piece of sh*t, or stupid, nor right by any stretch of the imagination... and when you really want to grow and learn things talk with friends - like us! We have a wealth of experience between us and are happy to debate in a caring and respectful way!

Love you all - but got to go to work! Magdalena x x x




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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:58 PM

TRISTAN


Magdalena, depends on your definition of venomous...

Oh, and I forgot to comment on the Pratchett comment by ShinyKitten...I loved that! "Some sheep"!

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:03 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Quote:

Originally posted by shinykitten:
heya all!
JamesTheDark, you should totally come to Australia! no, no, EVERYONE should come to Australia! YAY!!
(hey, can the island with the castle be a floating one, so we can just follow the summer around the world?!)

Oz is the bestest place to go if your looking for somewhere warm...we really know how to do summer here, and we have some of the best beaches in the world to cool down at too!
it is true that we have got a hell of alot of venomous critters here, but you get used to them after a while...

(hehehehe...that reminds of a scene in a Terry Pratchett book, where Death asks for a list of all the dangerous creatures in Fourecks (OZ) and after being buried in a huge pile of paper, asks for a list of the NON-venomous creatures and gets a single piece of paper that says..."some of the sheep"!)



Hmmm....I think that Austrailia is starting to sound prettty good to me! I wonder why warm places always seem to be more appealing to people...

------

"...and I'll just fade away..."


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:09 PM

TRISTAN


ASOFT, I was actually thinking about a trip to Australia myself...

Not sure about warm places being my main attraction. I'm actually a lover of cooler weather and green climes...like Ireland. But Magda has made Australia sound very inviting lately.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:12 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


"The only 'conclusion' that I see reached is one of two"

That's me quoting myself. Maybe I'm misinterpreting your response as a whole, but you seem to have missed that I said "ONE of two". If that's not the case, then you're simply confused by scenario 1? I don't see that it's so awfully difficult to understand, but I'll try and break it down.

Scenario 1 (revised): The women who responded claiming that the ladder isn't real and that it does not apply to them are telling the truth, making them "good" or "decent" people. If that is the case, then I, having lost belief that there is such a thing, am just a grouchy asshole who doesn't want to acknowledge the possibility of the ladder not being real.


Furthermore, since these are two scenarios I've put forward, and am not claiming either one to be absolutely true, your accusing me of having "pointed out my own immaturity" is not only moot, but completely unwarranted. If you made that comment simply because I stated my opinion to be that scenario 2 is the truth, then I see you haven't moved on much from the last time you rallied a mob against me.

Also, being exclusively around males in my social life, I will DEFINATELY argue your point that not all males thinks about sex all of the time. Believe it or not, the guys I hang around with tend to be eccentrics and intellectuals, nerds and the like, and they are still thinking about sex about as often as I think about uppercutting people (and boy do I!). Basic training, too, was a very real look at what males from all over the country think about %90 of the time.

Finally, even from your opening paragraph you made your intentioned clear by assuming that I had an "argument". Forgive me if I’m nitpicking words, and please feel free to ignore me if I am, but you seem to be dead set on assuming I'm trying to start shit again, when I was never even trying to the first time. As I recall, I made an open statement about my opinion on how women wearing revealing clothes making them a target for rapists, and was eventually accused by one person of being a prospective rapist myself. You all over-reacted and made a giant wolf-hunt out of nothing.

EDIT: By the by, MAGDALENA, I'm 22 years old. I don't know if that qualifies as very young, but I will be the first to admit my own immaturity when it comes to social interaction with women on any level. Most of the time, I just sit around hating women, but every so often I get a hair up my ass about something and feel the need to ask questions. Usually this results in flared tempers all around, and in the end I just end up hating more. Y'see, anytime in my life that I've tried to accosiate with women on any level, they end up brushing me off, as if I'm not good enough to even talk to. And these aren't prospective relationships, either, just people I meet, friends of friends, etc. I have a legitimate problem. My friends wont even bring their girlfriends around me because they know that something will go wrong. So what the hell is it?

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:22 PM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan:
ASOFT, I was actually thinking about a trip to Australia myself...

... Magda has made Australia sound very inviting lately.



*races ahead of Tristan to the airport*





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:43 PM

DANCINGNEKO




*considers advertising for Hawaii -- since it is within the U.S., there's no need for passports, you can find snow here (yes, snow!) certain times of the year, no poisonous snakes on land, beautiful scenery, etc....* *shakes head*

Nah...If Tristan and Penguin want to spend a DAY cooped up in coach on an airplane, who am I to deny them their "fun"?

Huh...looks like we've got a troll... *lightly slaps Tristan's hand* Quit teasin' the trolls, Tris...

*Notices Tristan's >sad puppy< look* Don't look so sad...I'd be willing to practice some of those slow, toe-curling kisses that involve other body parts (besides just the lips).

....and since Whitefall ignored MY hitting him with a watercannon....*flies a large waterbaloon at Whitefall*

Penguin...Iowa can't be mythical...one of my oldest girl-friends (before elementary school even) lives there with her husband and daughter... ALABAMA (not including Huntsville), now probably IS mythical...


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:44 PM

ELDUSTO


I tend to rate women as I see them and I don't have any female friends, just some girls I'd like to be with, but it just isn't in the cards. I've read the Intellectual Whores website and the whore is men, but it can also be women. The meat and potatoes of the site is about how the opposite sex will string you on just so they can talk to someone of the opposite sex about what they'd talk about with people of the same sex. I mean that's all it is. I've been drawn into this "trap" as the author has called it many times, and it sucks. They know you want them, but instead of telling you where the line stands, they let you teader on it and that just leads to unhappy feelings for the "trapped". I had one girl that constantly led me on and then would tell me she wasn't doing that. So, I let her know what she was doing and she still did it and then denied it.
You can be a guy and have women friends. There's always that grey area that can't be calculated, but for the most part guys are friends with women cause they are attracted to them.
I do agree that the website was written by some angry guy, even though he says he's not angry. Well, if he wasn't angry, then why would he make women look like the bad party in this whole situation. Unfortunately, the ladder is true, to a degree, but it can be mirrored. Both sides are equally responsible for basically putting the carrot on the stick, and that's the truth. Why people do this is beyond me, but I don't do it to women because I know what it feels like to be the "trapped" one. Ok, I'm going to stop being Emo now.


http://www.geocities.com/neo_ultimate_d - The Homepage
http://www.myspace.com/eldusto - The Myspace page

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:48 PM

TRISTAN


Oh, it was mostly the wording that had me baffled. The "only conclusion being"...and then you give a choice...kind of a contradiction, no? The revised version actually makes more sense. But it still puts forth the fact that you do not agree with those opposed to the ladder...which only really leaves you with option #2, does it not? And when you point out that the disbelievers of the ladder are lying to themselves to appear more mature (as in the aforementioned conclusion #2), and you are the only one being honest with themself, yes, I call that immature. You sort of bricked yourself in here.

"Argument"...one of the definitions of this word is as follows...discourse intended to persuade (taken from Merriam-Webster dictionary). You were stating two points drawn on one conclusion...it goes back to that confusing sentence The only "conclusion" that I see reached is one of two:. Argument does not always mean something bad.

Rallied a mob against you? Please, that was something you managed all on your own! Heck, I wish I could claim the ability to rally a mob...that would be something!

I respect the fact that you were in the military. I do remember that much about you. I want to thank you for the service you gave to this country to protect the liberties of me and mine. You have a first-hand knowledge that I do not possess when it comes to large groups of males trained to do something I can only dream about. I will not argue (sorry, disagree with you) that males do think about sex. What I am disagreeing with is that we base every meeting we have with a female on the ladder you brought into this. This is my main point.
As far as you starting shit again, the thought had crossed my mind. You have a tendency to post incendiary statements to see what kind of reaction you can get. I can only assume that a slow day at FFF.net drove you to seek your fun elsewhere...and here you are. If I am wrong in my assumptions, time will prove it, and I will aoplogize. Until then, I will be wary. I also want you to note that I am not the one who pointed out what caused the problem last time, you are. By rehashing your own statement, it does indeed look like you are trying to stir shit up once again. And don't pull the "trying to defend myself" card on that; I don't buy it. You showed your ass last time you were on this thread, and I want to be sure it doesn't happen again. If you have something good to add to the discussion, I will welcome you with open arms and a beer. If not, this is the type of response you are likely to receive from me.


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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:53 PM

TRISTAN


Not fair, Penguin!!

Hey, isn't Hawaii kinda between here and Australia?
DancingNeko, he's been here before, it's ok. Thanks, though.
Oh, and I'm not even sure Alabama exists half the time....

Speaking of ing...I, uh..practice...you, uh...hehe...wow... *thud*

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:07 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Then I suppose you don't draw a distinction between me holding an opinion and me stating something as an outright fact? Forgive me, that makes all the difference in the world to me. I thought it would be enough to relate the fact that I'm open to other possibilities, but currently believe one of the two. I don't see that as bricking myself in, just another example of you applying intentions that I did not have to my own words.

And actually, the only reason I restated it was cause I was so sure that if I didn't, you'd call bullshit on me and start telling everyone yourself to get them to hate me. I thought that by admitting myself first, I'd take the ammunition away from you, but sure enough you found something else to throw at me. If you're going to start pointing fingers for bringing up ancient history, why'd you even mention this in the first place?

"Please remember that this wonderful link was also brought to us by the same individual who caused quite a stir on an Imponderable thread quite awhile ago."

I had not thus far offended anyone, so again it just looks like you were trying to make me into a bad guy. Me explaining the situation further, I think, was a legitimate means of defending myself. In short: If you didn't want it brought up, you shouldn't have brung it up yourself.

Sure enough, it wasn't you alone that got everyone barking at me for things I never said last time. I certainly do recall several other instigators, one in particular who I wont mention that started the whole damn thing.

It's so easy to say that you respect my service, but that looks just to be a cover statement, as you apparently don't find that enough of a reason to take me at my own word.

Finally, thank you oh so much for the informative dictionary reference, but I do believe I said that if I was nitpicking words, you could feel free to ignore. If you're incapable of exercising that freedom, then well, I suppose it can't be helped.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:27 PM

DANCINGNEKO


*considers Tristan's statments about the troll* :lightbulb: OH! Tristan, "requesting" that you stop for *his* sake...was asking you for *mine*. (Had a "lovely" day with looking at numbers and realizing that at work, we're stuck between a rock, a hard place, and deep .) I'm trying to be a "grown-up," when I'd rather be a , 'cause that way I'd be a whole less stressed...

(MsG: This is why you're the middle-school teacher and I'm not...you've got a larger tolerance level than I do. *worshipful genuflections*)

*Searches hard for the "silver lining"* -- at least I'm not in administration, I guess...all this "fun" is making me feel physically ill.

*sighs* It's official...I need some drinkin' buddy-type 'coat pals for days like this...and I'm not adminsitration material...



Edited to add the following: Oooh! I got someone to go inarticulate and pass out! (And I wasn't doing the "goodnight kiss" that YoSafBridg does.)

As for ChrisMoorHead: As I tell some of the kids I work with (jokingly to them, to you, not so much): "Man...that's some good sh*t you're smokin'." 'cause the "not pissin' people off" line is something out of your ever-f:ceonsored: fant-ass-y. The mysogynic, data-lacking, link you posted has so many holes in it, and is so insulting, rude, and disgustingly lacking in any coherent thought other than to make some-loser--guy who couldn't get laid and has to make up some cry- logic to explain why he can't get any female that *he* thinks is "hot" to look at him in any way other than to give him the *get-the-f-away-from-me-creep* look, that words can't even begin to describe how disgusted, insulted, and troll-like your behavior is...and that is WAY before ANYONE posted a response to you.

*looks at the rest of the jaw-dropped, Imponderables-posters* What? I did say it's been a bad day...*turns around to look at ChrisMoorhead* Oh...and btw...any of your lame, pitiful attempts to play "troll" at me, or flame me will automatically be sent to /dev/null and/or "trash-bin." *wanders off to find the dark chocolate truffles and a corner in JtD's Sulking Corner and Coffee House to curl up into*

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