Was short lived for the best? by browncoatjim

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Was short lived for the best?

POSTED BY: BROWNCOATJIM
UPDATED: Friday, September 29, 2006 19:50
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VIEWED: 5365
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Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:45 PM

Now, what I am about to put forward here may be regarded as heresy, and before anyone goes off and bombs me with hate mail, please, read this all the way thru.

I am like everyone else, I wish Firefly was still in production, I wish I had 20 or 30 DVD's worth of episodes to watch, and I still give the finger to the FOX-25 broadcasting building here in the Boston area when I drive by, but consider this: can we find something positive about the short life of Firefly?

Some shows never get a good enough run at it......long before I got hip to Firefly (and again, i am still a fairly new convert), I was a big Farscape fan. i thought it was some of the finest writing, acting, and storytelling on TV. Like Firefly, it was written for bright people, which is sadly the kiss of death for everything. But they still got four years and a miniseries to tell their story, and I thought they did a fine job of wrapping it all up and putting a conclusion on the story.

Some shows go too long, like the X-Files, which went, I think, about three years longer than it should have. Towards the end, for me, it became more of a labor than a joy.

But as far as Firefly goes, don't the brightest of stars always burn out the fastest, and, in some senses, isn't that preferable to fading to obscurity? I think it is.

here is something else that i have seen in the short time of joining this group: there were sooooo many unanswered question left behind, and so many really bright people in this group, that there are a million different theories out there as to answers. Right now there is a thread about book's past going on right now with some absolutely brilliant ideas out there.

Buffy got to answer all of its question, and Firefly did not. Simple as that. But by leaving so many loose ends, a lot of very fine and clever people out here with brown coats of our own have been able to answer those questions for ourself, and create a great free exchange of ideas as to the mysteries of the 'verse.

Again, i am not glad that it is gone, but something good should come form everything, and maybe this group is proof positive of just that.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:48 PM

RIVER6213

I understand what you are trying to say but it still would have been nice to have at least 2 or 3 seasons. I always felt that Firefly ended before it could really show us its whole face.

-River

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:53 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

And I agree wholeheartedly, and I am happy that the first response isn't sending me to the special hell!

A couple of seasons, maybe three, and a BDM would have been great.

Still, at least we got the BDM, right?

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:01 PM

RIVER6213

This is true. The fact that we got a movie was in itself a great feat. The movie itself was very good, but the downside to it was that it made you want more.

Also, because the life of Firefly was so short, and the 14 episodes were so good does in a way secure its place in the cult sci-fi shows catagory. It\\\'s right up there with Rocky Horror Picture Show and the like, and people will still be talking about FF for years to come, so I thinks that\'s a good thing.
Better something than nothing I always say.

-River

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:08 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

Well said, River, well said indeed! look at the prisoner, that is still making waves in the sci-fi world!

FF was that rarest of shows, like Farscape or the X-Files during its prime, that just seemed to fit so much into a one-hour TV show. Each episode played more like a movie, and you came away from it feeling quite satisfied.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:11 PM

MIRACULOUSBUMM

I'm sorry. This really doesn't have anything to do with the thread, but BrowncoatJim, I do the exact same thing! Flicking off the Fox 25 sign in Boston! Well anyways, this is completely off topic, but didya know Morena Baccarin is gonna be in Framingham on Nov. 18? Here's the site if you wanna check it out. http://www.supermegafest.com/
She's the first BDH to visit New England, ya know.

--------------------------------------------------

Always havin' a good time!

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:16 PM

RIVER6213

You are right about that. Firefly, Farscape and X-files did have a way of delivering a measure of satisfaction that\'s rare; truly a mark of a good show. The only show I know on television right now that achieves this is the new Battlestar Galactica, which will begin its new season on October 6th.

-River

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:19 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

hey where are you at?

Oh, and kane Hodder will be there too, as in jason Voorhees!

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:21 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

I have still yet to get hip to that show, and I know I should........it's so hard to imagine taking the name of real cheesy tv and making something good from it.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:47 PM

MIRACULOUSBUMM

Well, I'm in the Wellesley area, so Framingham is just a bit west of here. I still don't know if I can go yet though. Still trying to clear up that date so I can go.

--------------------------------------------------

Always havin' a good time!

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:07 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I understand your reasoning but can't agree with it. It sounds too much like trying to rationalize something you can't control and convincing yourself it's something you wanted to happen in the first place. I think we all can agree that the fourteen episodes of Firefly are television production of the highest order, but trying to envision what it would have become in its fourth or fifth season boggles the mind. It is NOT okay that it was canceled and I will never change my opinion on that.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:18 PM

RIVER6213

I agree with that. It was not alright at all that it was cancelled. I would venture further and say that the cancellation of Firefly was the executive programmerâ€™s biggest goof of all time.

-River

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:54 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI

Quote:
But as far as Firefly goes, don't the brightest of stars always burn out the fastest, and, in some senses, isn't that preferable to fading to obscurity?

I smell a Blade Runner reference.

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:18 PM

TRAVELER

I had doubts my ownself about this show every returning. Then the movie came out. They didn't hand Joss the cash and say, "here relive your golden days." Universal believed in it. There are producers who know there is a following. So if we keep sites like this going and the sale of DVD's continue it is noticed.

I have seen causes that seemed hopeless rise from the ashes. If I want more episodes I'm not going to get them if I don't commit myself to it.

I know some shows have gone on way past their prime. But fourteen episodes is hardly that. Joss can do a lot more with Firefly. There are obstacles that are still to be delt with for the crew of the Serenity. I would like to see these resolved.

If it should pass that we have seen the last of Serenity, then I am fortunate to have discovered it and own the complete series and movie.

But I feel there will be more. The fan base continues to grow. What should be realized is the people on this site are just a small fraction of the audience that would watch the show if it returned. Right now we have over 20,000 members and counting. How many more people belong to other sites. I know we are not the only site, just the best. And how many people simply don't get involved with fan sites but would still enjoy the show. Well they showed up for the movie. And they are buying the DVD's. I've heard it is one of the top selling collections out there. So I see evidence that there is more than hope. The word is getting out. This show is making waves. So as the saying goes "don't count us out."

My two cents
Traveler

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Friday, September 29, 2006 12:27 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

If you told me to go tap dance naked in the middle of Post Office Square at lunchtime and we would get more episodes, trust me, I would be stripping as I got there. Like anyone else, I am left unfulfilled by the various storylines that never got to play out, by the characters that never got filled in (I still think there is so much that could have been done with Jayne).

All I am saying is that these fan sites are awesome in their creativity, and could that be going on if Fox hadn't so abruptly pulled the plug?

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Friday, September 29, 2006 12:29 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

Oh wow, I am just south of Boston, I allready made my plans for it.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 12:32 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

Trust me, I am not glad it's gone, I think Fox blew it something fierce......all I am trying to say is that I don't think these fan sites would have the level of passion and creativity were the show allowed to carry on.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 1:59 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Where I can see what it is you are saying Jim, I have to agree w/ ECGordon; Firefly was brilliant and deserved to be a series for at least five seasons. Only the short sighted execs killed it off before it had a chance to find it's feet, through a lot of mismanagement by said Fox execs.

Yes, it burned briefly and brightly, but it did burn. That is the point, right, that we got Firefly at all. Then we got the BDM and the comics. It ain't much, but we're still flyin'! That is what really matters.

We're still holding. Waiting for Joss to come back.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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Friday, September 29, 2006 2:32 AM

MRBEN

Watching Serenity always makes me sad; it's a brilliant movie, but it just makes me aware that in 90 minutes of quality cinematic entertainment, we've just missed out on 1.5 seasons of fantastic TV entertainment. For all the special effects, and stuff like that, a Whedon production is about relationships and dialogue, neither of which suffer too much from being on the small screen.

To me, Serenity underlines that Joss had at least 3-4 seasons worth of storyline. I would even go as far to say that I would _rather_ that we had 5 seasons where the last season was a bit of a disappointment, than to have what we have now.

If you listen to the Q+A with Joss on the bonus disk, you'll hear him ask whether people, given the choice, would rather have more TV series, or more film, the answer is overwhelmingly more series. The film(s) is(are) a substitute for what might-have-been.

mrben

"Carpe Aptenodytes"
http://www.jedimoose.org

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Friday, September 29, 2006 3:05 AM

BROWNCOATJIM

Without a crystal ball, can we say that there was 5 seasons worth of storytelling there? You and I would like to think so, but who can ever really know for sure, but you are right, there was a lot left to do, and I wish that they wouldn't have cut it so quickly.

Still, consider this.......would we have ever had the BDM? Probably not. I hate to keep referencing the X-Files, but that show embodies everything I am talking about. They had their own BDM, which I still don't think led much to the storyline, and may have made the subsequent seasons that much less rich becuase so much of the tale was allready told. Would Fox make that mistake again? Probably not, again. And without the BDM, how many people would have never got hip to the show? A lot I would venture.

I would have loved More time, make no mistake. More time to go down Mal and Inara's road, as well as Wash and Zoe's rocky road, and Simon and Kaylee's very clumsy road. I would have liked to learn more about Book, and more about the Reavers themselves. The Pax gas was a neat little explanation, but after 12 years, wouldn't its effects have started, at least, to wear off? What keeps them going, how have they survived radiation sickness for so long, and what is their society (for lack of a better term, but they are coherent enough to pilot and modify spaceships, let's not forget)all about?

Of course there are more questions, and God knows Niska was good for an occasional visit, and I wish we could have had time to see them all played out, but at the same time, isn't it fun to compare theories in a forum like this? And maybe we can all generate enough passion about the show to maybe see the new CW pick it up, just for a short test run.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 6:46 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

If you are in anyway a Buffy or Angel fan, I can't see how you could doubt that Joss had major plans for character and plot development in store for Firefly. I think what little we have of Firefly is actually better in a lot of ways than either of those shows in far less time. Both of his previous series were rather weak in the first season, but look where they ended up. Firefly was practically perfect from day one (or would have been if FOX ran the pilot first).

I also disagree with your contention that this and other fansites would not be as vigorous if the series was still in production. Sites devoted to the Buffyverse are still going strong, and I would bet that many of those fans' favorite characters might not have even been introduced in the first or second seasons of those shows. I think it safe to say the same would have happened with Firefly, and if it had continued we would now be talking and writing fanfic about completely different characters than the ones we know now.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 7:28 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

An old showman ( I think it was P T Barnum. ) expressed a maxim: " Always leave 'em wanting more."
Surely happened-- that's why were all here. But the fire hadn't burned down yet.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 9:03 AM

CRUITHNE3753

Quote:
Originally posted by browncoatjim:
and more about the Reavers themselves. The Pax gas was a neat little explanation, but after 12 years, wouldn't its effects have started, at least, to wear off? What keeps them going, how have they survived radiation sickness for so long, and what is their society (for lack of a better term, but they are coherent enough to pilot and modify spaceships, let's not forget)all about?

Reavers = ravers who've done too much "E"

Well here's my theory; Some people on Miranda had experimental cell damage repair nanobots in their bloodstream. The Pax was absorbed by these nanobots causing them to malfunction. These in turn caused their hosts to go psychotic instead of chilling out. Although the nanobots cannot repair the gross damage of the Reavers' self-mutilation, they do repair damage at a cellular level which protects them from radiation sickness, as well as infection that mutilation would otherwise leave them vulnerable to. These nanobots can also infect survivors who've been tortured, thus passing on "reaverism". Still have to think of how they manage some sort of "society" though...

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Friday, September 29, 2006 9:06 AM

CRUITHNE3753

( Where's the "delete" button? [img]

)

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Friday, September 29, 2006 9:06 AM

CRUITHNE3753

I reckon about three full seasons would been a satisfying length without too much risk of waterskiing stunts involving large fish.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 10:46 AM

HUGHFF

Short lived is for the best (you don't want a last season of That 70s Show thing) but too short lived is not.

The BDM, while it was my introduction to FF, is considerably inferior to the BDS because it had to carry a story in only 114 minutes that should've taken a whole season (22 episodes of 40+ minutes.) All the deleted scenes are the best scenes because they feature the interaction between characters that was such a feature of the BDS but largely absent from the BDM eg when Inara lifted off in the shuttle.

BTW it's been the 'versary in my time zone for nearly 9 hours now.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

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Friday, September 29, 2006 10:57 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
I reckon about three full seasons would been a satisfying length without too much risk of waterskiing stunts involving large fish.

HeHe, I do agree that 3 seasons would have been perfect. I still would have wanted more anyway.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 2:08 PM

TRAVELER

I have noticed over the years that if a show makes it to a fourth season they have beat the odds. Most shows do not get past that mark. Some get to ten seasons or more. "Married With Children", "Simsons", and "Star Trek The Next Generation" are exceptions to have lasted so long. I admit I stopped watching both "Married" and "Simsons" many moons ago. They did what you are pointing out. They covered ever issue to death. Firefly may have come to completion in four years. But with the original nine characters there is a lot of room to create story lines.

After a wrench to his head, Jayne began to accept River and Simon, even though he still did not like them. So a lot of time would be needed to reach some understanding between them. But things do occur that reverse the forward momentum. Like River going balistic in the bar. Jayne started having second thoughts about keeping then around. So the plot of the show will always have twists to keep things off balance and continue keep it fresh.

But you have a point. If successful would we be gathered here? I think so. It would be different. We would be more involved in discussion of the show and less in bringing it back. But there would still be hopes for more. This show was well made and it brought people together not because it had so few episodes, but because of the quality of them. I have enjoyed many programs, but this show sparked something in me that brought me looking for this site. No one came looking for me. I Googled. Out she popped. I have not done that with Star Trek or several other shows I enjoyed.

One thing I have noticed since I entered this site is how different it is. I have visited and lurked other sites and the people here have a wonderful nature about them. The humorous threads that are complete nonsense but make me laugh so hard I strain myself. And yet how serious they can become. I enter a thread about Geekdom thinking it would be a lark and it was one of the more serious threads I ever posted in. We delved deep into our nerdness with a passion. I feel Firefly attracts some very special people. I marvel at how diverse we are. Yet we share our laughter and deepest thoughts to each other. I blame Firefly for this.
I may just be imagining this but yet each week that I'm here I discover something new about the people here. They are passionate. That is one thing I learned very early. But they express it in so many ways. And they continue to surprize me. So if Firefly had 14 or 114 episodes I believe it would have brought some of the same people together, you see here today.

Well I rambling again. So I will stop. Will end with thanking everybody for allowing me to be apart of this experience that is Joss.

PS
Browncoatjim. Do not think I am being critical of your opinion. It is as valid as any other that can be expressed. After all, we will never really know the answer. But it is asking these questions that sparks are minds and makes us think. And that is always good.

Thank You;
Traveler

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Friday, September 29, 2006 2:17 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

Traveler, I do really appreciate your last line. One of the things that makes this site so cool (I do the Farscape and Doctor Who sites too) is how open to thoughts and opinions everyone is, and how we are able to bounce so many thoughts and ideas off of eachother.

My whole line of logic in starting this thread is that to me, the fact that so many questions were put out there in that tragically short lived run, with so few answers (even including the BDM)has allowed us to have so many other lines of resoning and ideas to put out there. Everyone has an idea of Book's past, for example, and the fact that there was never time for any answers on it has allowed some real creative thinking out here, and some awesome meshing of ideas.

Again, I am not dancing on the show's grave, as I think some people may have inferred.....rather, i am praising and celebrating what we do out here.

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Friday, September 29, 2006 3:00 PM

TRAVELER

That is a good point, about all the surmising we do about what could have been. It does give us a lot of of topics to discuss that would never have happened if the show had lasted four or five years. I think we would spend more time saying, "Why didn't Mal tell Inara he loves after five years?" Well something like that. I would hope the would resolve something between Mal and Inara by that time.

Traveler

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Friday, September 29, 2006 3:03 PM

BROWNCOATJIM

oh, and I am sure they would have, remember, it took Crichton and Aeryn until the end of the second season to finally come out about how they felt for one another (although they did get together a couple of times, but nothing came from it).

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Friday, September 29, 2006 7:50 PM

RIVER6213

Yup, that\'s what makes Firefly and its 14 episodes and 1 movie so great! It is still an untold story. It\'s still incomplete, which leaves a hole there for us, the fans to fill in.

I find myself sometimes thinking about Mal or River, and a few of the other characters, and trying my best to make up stories about them in my mind regarding what they were doing in-between episodes of FF, or what they were doing in that gap from the series to the movie. What adventures did we miss?

In our short exposure of the Firefly series and the movie we were introduced into a rich world ripe for legends and wonder. We had that taken away from us before we could get a good toe-hold into the whole thing, and this is my major regret, and it leaves me with the feeling that I seriously had missed something, which is why I still watch the series over and over again hoping to find something new in that world that I might point to and say â€œOh! I didnâ€™t realize that!â€ But I have watched it enough to the point where I have tapped out the show from every angle.

If a new movie was brought forth to us fans we will still want MORE. This is something that we will have to face and Joss knows already I suspect. With us it will never endâ€¦we will always want more.

Sorry for the fragmentation of words.

-River

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