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Originally posted by RugBug:
That said, I don't necessarily think flirting is bad even if an SO gets jealous. I think there are two kinds of jealousy: justified and unjustified/controlly type. If the jealousy is justified b/c someone has cheated in the past or crosses lines, then more power to you. But if it's because of your insecurity and has no basis in fact, then you need to get over yourself. (that would be a royal you...I'm not speaking to anyone in particular)

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Originally posted by Tristan:
RugBug, I generally agree with you about the flirting thing, but for me, it's a bit personal. I used to not have a problem with an SO flirting with someone else as long as she was true to me, but as it turns out, there are other ways to cheat on someone. My big deal is love and respect first followed by physical faithfulness. Playful flirting where nothing else is involved is good, but when an SO flirts, tells you it means nothing, then it turns out they are in love with another...that I have issue with. So, going by a societal definition, nothing 'physical' happened. To me, however, the betrayal was still there because there was love involved, which lessened the love towards me and seriously damaged the respect. Was I justified in being jealous and over-reacting when it continued?
This is not a rebuke, I am trying to see if others out there view this type of distinction. As far as I know, there was no sex involved, but there was love. To me, that was worse than the possibility of sexual infidelity.

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Originally posted by Tristan:
I learn alot!

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Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Okay, frisky or not I seriously cannot talk about my underwear on this forum! I have standards! They're not high, but they are there!

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Unacceptable. I think that women and men need to start realizing that this isn't as "fun and games" as it appears to be. So many people (and by that, I mean everyone except for me) are willing to approach this subject with a huge, shit-eating grin and accept accusations of manipulation with a giddy "Heh heh, yup!". But I'm not joking.

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Last week while at a friend's house who rooms with several other people, including two very attractive females, one friend of mine offered up $50 to on of the females after she made note that she was broke. She did not asking him for it. He simply overheard her and offered it. She, of course, was more than happy to accept.

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Am I the only person who feels physically ill seeing this type of manipulation take place with absolutely no feeling of guilt or embarrassment from either party? What transpired there was wrong, and I find it... disturbing that this is a fairly common social interaction. The attractive girl cashing in on guys whom she'd never even consider dating.

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The majority of men today are dumbasses controlled by the leash God attached to their crotches. I would like to, on their behalf, plead that any women present not use this type of power so aimlessly. You might all think that it's just fun and games and how the world works, put power without the discipline to obtain it, quite literally, scares me.

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You can say I'm over-reacting. Maybe I can't point out any specific times where this type of female-dominance has led to a particularly heinous crime. But I likewise cannot fathom a time where it would lead to any amount of good, either.

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Originally posted by RMMC:

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Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Okay, frisky or not I seriously cannot talk about my underwear on this forum! I have standards! They're not high, but they are there!

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*ponders the idea that DTH while more than happy to jump NVG's bones in a public forum, will not discuss undergarments*

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Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Can't stop playing with my sig. Will I go blind?

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The situation Magdalena (and others) described were fun and games. That was the point. Men are attracted to women. Women are attracted to men. This leads to all manner of fun and games as well as procreation of the species. Both sides are aware of this. It's perfectly natural that both sides would have as much fun with that as possible. I have no doubt that people of both genders use their attractiveness to manipulate others. I've seen people do that. But that's not what we were describing. We described several occasions where we flirted with our partners to get their attention. If you see that as manipulation then I'm sorry, because you're missing out on a really fun part of being in a relationship.

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Like the other said, you haven't described her using her looks to get the money. Did she say it out loud so he could hear? Did she bat her eyes or wiggle her butt at him? Was she aware that he liked her? All you say is that she was attractive, she mentioned she was broke and he offered her money. Did she do anything to encourage him, anything at all, or did you just assume that since she was good looking he must have been thinking with the other brain? Because if that's the case then the issue is with your reaction to attractive women, not his.

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I don't think this is common at all. You make it sound like all we do is use our feminine wiles to get our own way. Yes, there are some women who cash in on guys they won't consider dating. As I said before, there are some men out there who do exactly the same thing. It's means they're manipulative people who should be ignored as much as possible. It's NOT a sign that their entire gender does the same thing.

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So men are helpless bundles of hormones with no willpower to control their biological reactions to the female of the species then. Chris, that's like saying a rapist isn't to blame for raping a woman who wore a short skirt since he wouldn't have been turned on by "sensible" clothing. And that argument, just to be absolutely clear, is a load of bull As I said before, men are attacted to women. (And I'm just remembering as I type that that's not true of all guys, so forgive the generalisation!) That attraction isn't a power women wield over men. It's just normal, same as men attracting women, women attracting women, men attracting men and all the nice stuff it leads to.

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And here is where I think we get to the heart of the issue. In my opinion, your problem isn't with people acting on lust, it's with female-dominance. You seem to have an issue with the idea of a woman being in control. And that's pretty damn sad. And maybe you think I'm over-reacting, but if so I think you should re-read your posts. Physical attraction is not some dangerous power than men need to be afraid of and women need to protect them from, and I find it deeply disturbing that you would think that.

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Originally posted by Magdalena:
I did want to clarify that the occassion on which I placed my parteners hand on my suspenders (or 'garter belt' for you American friends)

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Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
She's very aware the he's desperately attracted to her. She'll hang off of him, rest her head on him, etc., everything short of actually going out with him. She has a naturally "flirty" disposition and takes no measures to not lead on males whom she knows for a fact are interested in her. It's sickening to watch them all compete and vie for her attention when she has no intention of going anywhere with them. And I know, that's not totally her fault, and I'm just as sickened by the males as I am by her.

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Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
So men are helpless bundles of hormones with no willpower to control their biological reactions to the female of the species then. Chris, that's like saying a rapist isn't to blame for raping a woman who wore a short skirt since he wouldn't have been turned on by "sensible" clothing. And that argument, just to be absolutely clear, is a load of bull

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Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
I'm not asking you to absolve them of anything, so your comparison to absolving a rapist of blame is moot. And it's funny that you should bring this particular comparison up, considering that it's gotten me in hot water with several people before. On that note, I'm more than happy to reiterate for a more proper comparison:

Rapists are not to be absolved for raping a woman in revealing clothes. It's certainly her RIGHT to wear those clothes. However, when weighing the options of what risks are worth taking and what risks are not, she has CONTROL over that small portion of it. It is part of her own decision to make herself more or less vulnerable at that point.

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Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I'll say that, with flirting, it's usually because there is some form of attraction there if it's me. If I flirt it's because I think someone is a great person (or a highly attractive one) even if it's a case of nothing ever coming of it. I have at times crossed the line with a friend, not because of anything in particular, just consistancy. I've backed off on flirting a whole lot lately since I found out I had unintentionally led a friend of mine on. Not sure how to get back into the swing of it, since I seem to need different techniques and don't know where to begin.

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Women- you need to be on the alert. I think the FBI bar rules are the best
1- Always go to a bar with friends and always promise you will go home together.Even if you meet a nice guy, wait and hook up with him in the daylight
2-When you order a drink either watch the bartender pour it or take it directly from the waitress
3- If you leave the table with an unfinished drink for any reason, always order a fresh one unless your friends were watching the drink for you.
4- Never leave a friend behind. Even if it's a buzzkill go home together.
You do all that and I can pretty much guarantee you won't be one of those statistics of missing /dead women.

Ok getting off soap box now:) Sorry

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