Male and Female Imponderables--Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain by Tristan

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Ah... right... I don't think we have discussed our cult status in referrence to *ahem* soft porn before JohnnyQ! I did have a porn channel once - and (thankfully in your case) the law stated that you couldn't show an errect penis unless it was concealed by clothing! ... and before any of you think I am sick for having it - I was working for a cable TV company and we were the test unit... I didn't even watch it after my first attempt... don't really know what you guys see in all that fake, noisy stuff to be honest!

Now, if we were talking Nandi and Mal... 'I could stand to hear a bit more'...

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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:41 PM

SHINYKITTEN

heya JQ!
psft! didn't we just get past the undergarment discussions!? way to raise the bar of uncomfortable discussion topics!

ummm...i don't know what to say about the first scenario...as for the second one, of course you should not feel bad!! we ROCK!!!

heya Magda! how are you?
i agree with you on the porn thing, not really a fan. i don't have any objections to it, just never really been able to get into it.

oh, yeah, i can see this imponderable thread gonna be interesting...

*********************
I'm a Librarian...don't make me shush your ass!!

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Friday, November 10, 2006 6:55 PM

KELKHIL

Yeah there seems to be some really bad PUSF going on lately.

PUSF - Pent Up Sexual Frustration (SP)

What fun topics that makes!

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Friday, November 10, 2006 7:19 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I have never had a naked dream. I guess that's not my idea of a nightmare.
I have no idea what to think about a Jayne hat in a bad porn. As for porn itself, sometimes you can get some interesting ideas from it, but that's about it for me. Usually it's "Oh, that might be fun to do for real. Wonder what else is on?" This is, of course, when I had cable.
Why Kel, whatever are you talking about? *tries to hide her PUSF*

[]

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Friday, November 10, 2006 8:44 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

*groans* - Oh Kelkhil ... thank you for bringing up that painful subject... and while you're at it you might like to give me a nice paper cut and maybe pour lemon juice on it???

*sighs* Oh - lets just say Kaylee's got nothin' on me... and Captain Mal so cannot know that!!! Though it was more by choice than lack of... I mean have been intentionally celebate for ... a while now... a damn long while... *sighs*

I dunno Mei Mei!! How'd we get on to this topic...??? I still haven't managed to catch up on the last thread!!

*sigh*

EDIT - OK - have finally caught up - thank you for the giggles James I also wore a pyjama top to school once - but I had stayed at t friend's place and forgotten to pack anything else - and it looked enough like a T-shirt that only other people who had the same PJs knew it... still... it was terrible for a teenage girl to cope with!! And I too had the not wearing a top or bottom dream... and neither of them was pretty - I used to dream it heaps when I was at high school... and again when I was desperately unhappy in a particular job... during the down hill spiral into depression actually... *shudders at the memory* Haven't dreamt that for a while though!

Eloise - I did it once too ... just the once and I borrowed a jumper from a friend and wore my coat over it so that there was no possibility of anyone realising I had no bra on... I also went to a bra shop and bought another one! I think this was also in the period of depression about 9 years ago now... with depression memory, and even just managing the little things (or DD things

), sometimes escapes you!

Oh & MsG... you simply cannot be a prude in the theatre can you?? If everyone else is getting changed then what is the big deal? I have no issue changing in mixed company, provided the company is also changing or there for a reason... I get really cross when 'audience' barges backstage after a show!!

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Friday, November 10, 2006 8:56 PM

BSCPANTHERFAN

I saw an interview with someone in that industry, and it confirmed every stereotype I ever had about bimbo actors and actresses. I always figured having someone around to experience life with is infinitely better to sitting on my butt watching a made-up life on TV (unless it's something by Joss), and watching porn is like being really hungry and watching Iron Chef. I'd rather be cooking than watching.

So who is he?
He's my husband.
Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Friday, November 10, 2006 9:39 PM

TRAVELER

After discussing bra sizes what male wouldn't have pent up sexual frustrations. Say that six times fast. I can understand porn but not this soft porn. It is like a tease. And who wants to be teased.

I just erased most of my post because I realized I was ranting. Must get out of that habit.

Magdalena, we have winter in Wisconsin now. We got our first snow. But it was to warm and melted in Milwaukee. It is always hard to tell if it will build up to anything. The lake can make it worse or warm air can melt it. So I guess some parts of Wisconsin got snow while others got rain. But this is early for us. We have not been getting much snow until end of December around here. So you never know if you will have any for Christmas.

That reminds me, I better get Christmas cards before I forget. All the good ones are gone if you wait to long. I like the funny ones. A friend of mine owns a gay bookstore and they have the funniest Christmas cards I know. My friends and family must scratch their heads when they get them in the mail. Gay humor is the best.

Traveler

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Friday, November 10, 2006 9:41 PM

MCQ

I'm going to ponder what this imponderables thread is pondering before I ponder what to ponder on this impoderables pondering thread...

...this may take a while...

O Captain, My Captain? (or the other way around)
-----------------------------

The official Court Jester of the Mythical Land that is Iowa! Woohoo!!

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Friday, November 10, 2006 11:20 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

LOL Q

... I often ponder this myownself!!

You are truly living up to your new title!!

Traveler

- so sorry about the frustration

...t'wasn't our intention, and we'll try to be good... we promise!

Thank you for the description of your beautiful Wisconsin! Did I tell you that I grew up reading and re-reading Laura Ingalls Wilder's Little House books... Christmas in the winter sounded like magic to me... and snow angels is another thing I would like to do one day... Oh - and I once received the most wicked but hilarious Christmas card from a gay friend - it involved a tiny Santa Clause on ring, through a piercing... I'll let you work out where the piercing was

Hello ShinyKitten

- I missed you before!! Sorry sweetheart! How is life up there in Sydney?

BSPantherfan! Hi! You have been missed - I don't think you've been around for months! Are there any productions by the Birmingham Opera next September...? coz I know an Aussie theatre fan who might be in the general vicinity

All caught up?.. I think so...

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:37 AM

JAMESTHEDARK

I think the only reason I never had the 'nasty nekkid dream' was because nudity was never a big thing for me. Although there are damn good reasons for wearing clothes (First of all, I hate being cold, and it's cold all damn year, and secondly, it's kinda illegal to walk around in the altogether...), I've never really placed too much importance on them. Hell, I can't say I've ever discarded a clothing option due to style or design, rather for odor or presense of stains and discolorments. I'm just lackidasical in the clothing department.

Which, I guess, makes it somewhat lucky I was born a man, eh?

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:50 AM

MSG

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
Hell, MSG went out of her way to make a new topic for me to feel comfortable, and I don't respond until now? I'm such a jerk...

But as to your question... I don't know what an SO is unless you're talking about a senior officer. Regardless, there's not a whole lot of dangerous activities left for me to partake in. I mean, I could try dating again... that always scared the hell outta me.

And since you keep bringing it up, I wear an old pair of elastic cuff martial arts pants and an Army or National Guard promotional shirt to sleep in. In spite of my profile picture, I'm usually a very reserved dresser.

Desktophippie - No female friends. The last one I had ending up dating and cheating on a male friend. I can't say that there's any one reason that I don't keep female friends. A large part is probably just being so opposite to any and all female personalities and ways of thinking. Also I don't believe that it's possible to have a completely platonic relationship with a woman outside of the family. And... bad experiences. I was resentful towards my own mother for a long time, and even though I'm mostly over that, there's probably some psychological transfer to all women in general. Guys are just easier friends for me. They forgive easier and are harder to offend in the first place.

Aw HUGS CMH- It doesn't make you a jerk it's just fine and I have to say, just based on your general perception of women and such...your mom is not very nice. HUGS oh and thanks for explaining the pants. Note I am stopping now before I get even further into a night attire thing...

Soft porn...boring. Though I am laughing now because a friend of mine saw William Petersen ( the guy who plays Grissom in CSI) in a soft porn thing and she can't watch CSI because she has little pics in her head of him in the porn:)

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."- Albright

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 11:02 AM

Nah, my mom's pretty good. She works at a church, sells houses on the side, one of those single mother types who's all kinds of busy raising my little sister. Very intelligent woman. But it was her second husband that used to beat on me when I was younger, and even though she didn't know about it until I got hospitalized, I think I resented her for it subconsciously. She was also just never very... nurturing. Her father disowned her when she was like 12, and she got beaten by her own grandfather until she was 16. By then she was already going to college and living on her own, so she's pretty quick to call me and other people lazy.

My resentment towards her was never fair or reasonable, and I'm glad that I've mostly moved past it. But I don't think my social interaction with the female gender could ever be fixed unless I really put effort in to it. But that's not going to happen.

[IMG]

Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkiries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 11:15 AM

MSG

CMH-I will definitely agree that women take offense far more easily ( yes this is a generalization and I will say the women here don't fit into it) and that guys get past stuff faster and don't seem to hold grudges as much. But I promise we're not all bad and you might want to try again some time. Also I'd say being not very nurturing, ignoring abuse( well not paying enough attention to realize your child was being abused) and calling your child lazy and other things makes her a lousy mom in my book and not a very nice person either and I'd say that resentment is fairly justified...HUGS

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."- Albright

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:03 PM

SHINYKITTEN

heya Magda!
i'm all good, thanks! got one more week of intense uni work to do, then i am finished for the year! YAAAY!!

CMH, i agree with MSG, your resentment of your mum sounds totaly justifiable. she doesn't sound like a nice person. supportive hugs and

s for you.
also, good to see you here in Imponderable land!
-hey, have you ever read anything by Matthew Reilly?? he's an Auzzie writer. you might like his stuff. there's a book of his called Ice Station...you should try it out, i think you would like it. his books are like reading an action movie, but in a good way.

*********************
I'm a Librarian...don't make me shush your ass!!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:13 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Hi all... I did write a huge ramble about my own experiences in my teens, and how they have impacted on my struggles with depression from time to time, and how they have led to me being pretty laid back and difficult to anger. (Except by my mother... who can turn me into a tantrum-ridden, 2-year-old in a flash!)

Sorry Imponderers... it was too much and too difficult to share, but I thank you all the same - I have saved what I wrote and it was cathartic to write it down and clarify a little piece of the 'Magda-puzzle'!

Suffice to say that I have never talked about this with anyone but two of my closest friends in my entire life (& a cousellor too) but that I see how my experiences led me to being very laid back... almost unnable to hold a grudge and very non-compeditive! It's funny how various circumstances trigger different responses in people!

May I just say that for all the honest and very frank disussions we've had here - there is always that element of care and acceptance in this thread that makes the Imponderers like family, I really treasure the friends I have made here and I look forward to catching up every day!

Woah - that was heavy - but I wanted to thank Chris too - you really seem to be openning up to us Chris - I see a change in the way you post and I really appreciate it! I wish you good health in all ways possible, and that things work out for the best in your life!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:26 PM

PENGUIN

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:29 PM

SHINYKITTEN

aaawwwww...group hug everybody!!

i second Madga's thankyou to everyone on the site.
one of the things that makes this group so wonderful is that the community here is incredibly supportive and accepting. you can feel as though you can say anything and everyone here will rally around you and be as supportive as they can be.
thankyou all for your love, support and compassion.

anyway....do we have an imponderable?

*********************
I'm a Librarian...don't make me shush your ass!!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 5:54 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Thank you Penguin

!!!!! such a welcome huggle!!

And thank you too ShinyKitten

- It is true isn't it - we are able to share the fun and funny things and the serious and sometimes risky things the haunt us... That is what a family should be like of course!!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:12 PM

MCQ

Quote:
Originally posted by shinykitten:
anyway....do we have an imponderable?

I have one of an unusual nature. Don't know if it's been discussed before on here though since I'm new but - at what time does "late at night" become "early in the morning"? We all come from different parts of the world and therefore are in different time zones. Yet it could be 2am and one would say "it's 2 in the morning and I haven't slept yet" while someone else would say "it's late at night, maybe I should go to bed". Does it depend on whether you've been to bed yet? Just thought I'd toss this one out there.

O Captain, My Captain? (or the other way around)
-----------------------------

The official Court Jester of the Mythical Land that is Iowa! Woohoo!!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:15 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Awwww, I'm feeling the love!
Can't get into photobucket because my work computer doesn't seem to always like it, but BIG HUGS to my jie jie and all you wonderful understanding imponderers. I've worked out a lot of things posting here (as to childhood and teenage issues, I've got those mostly worked out and don't feel the need to talk about them in detail unless all of you really want to hear about it and how I've worked to get past it) and it's nice when a question can spark a Flash of the Obvious; one of those things you always sorta knew, but didn't think about of connect to other things.
Y'all became my family as soon as I signed on. You helped me through a painful time and helped me heal afterwards. It's amazing to have such great friends

[]

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 6:29 PM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

Hey Mei Mei - I feel the same way myownself (sorry - I know I use that word too often - but I love it!! Bit of a closet Nandi I think!!

) I think I have shared how I became a browncoat and ironically at 2.30 in the morning/late at night

thanks Q!! I logged in to Google and joined every and any site that had firefly in it's title - I felt I had to add to the number of voices supporting this amazing story and it's writers and actors and all involved!!

I posted once-only on a couple of sites... nothing - but FFF.net was the first one, and time and again I returned to find warmth and welome and a real sense of community... yes it did become family right away!

The Imponderers was probably the reason I really felt at home - such honest, non-judgemental folk sharing and caring for one another... thanks again to you all for making it so!

Love and hugs! Magda x x x

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:11 PM

MARINA

Since this is the safest place to admit such a thing... would any of you trust (or have trusted, for those married) your parents to find a mate for you? Arranged - not blind, but arranged. I for one would really love it if my parents would just find the guy for me. I have no doubt that I would love whoever they chose, plus, added bonus, he'd already get along with my family! I don't come from any cultural or religious tradition where this is going to happen, it's mostly just wishful thinking...but I thought I'd throw it out there. Feelings about arranged marriages? Always more and more of them out there, and the three couples I know who were arranged are some of the happiest I've ever known.

It's an imponderable, at least. Every culture has its own reaction to the idea, but the deeper you look and the further you consider the more complex the whole thing becomes.

Don't make faces.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:52 PM

MSG - Well, if you're dead set on that opinion of my mother, I wont try and change it. Just let it be known that I never spoke ill of her myself. Filial piety is important to me.

Shinnykitten - Afraid I've never read anything by him. I discussed this elsewhere, but I don't really read a whole lot of fiction. Right now I have to finish and Autobiography by Johnny Cash, then a VERY thick book by Col. Hackworth. I also have a rotating cast of books that I try to re-read, Sun Tzu, weapon manuals, wilderness tracking, etc. Reading is not really a leisurely activity for me. I do appreciate the recommendation, though.

Magdalen - I've never really been closed to anyone. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that keeping secrets only presents weaknesses for others to exploit. Consequently, people have thought me to be a braggart, or judged me based on things I've done that most other people would keep secret. On that note, I don't think that I've particularly changed anything about myself to accommodate anyone here. I still think that women can prevent themselves from being raped with more than just their outward attitude in public. I still wonder if things like killing a loved one would make a man a more effective soldier. I still think conflict is the spark of life, and that real men love to fight. In the words of Gen. Patton:

"The third reason we are fighting is because men like to fight. They always have and they always will. Some sophisticates and other crackpots deny that. They don't know what they're talking about. They are either goddamned fools or cowards, or both. Men like to fight, and if they don't, they're not real men."

And also:

"Americans love to fight - traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle."

Marina - If I was willing to marry at all, I think that I might trust my parents to pick out a suitable partner. I've only had 2 girlfriends in my life, and I would have married either one of them. Commitment and learning to love a person have never been particularly hard for me. Trust, on the other hand... but then, that's the whole reason I don't date anymore. I don't trust any woman not to cheat on me, or break up with me eventually. In the end, it all seems like an exercise in futility, and by that, a waste of time and effort.

[IMG]

Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkiries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:55 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Q, I have no idea where night ends and morning begins, as it is different for everyone. For me (before I started graveyards and was just a night owl) it would be 'really late' until the sun started to come up, and then it would be 'morning' even if I hadn't gone to bed yet. Now it's just all skewed.
As to arranged marriages... I don't know about that. I've heard they can turn out well, but they can also turn out badly. Not that marriages of your own choosing have any kind of guarantee, either. I think my mom knows pretty well what I need, but I wouldn't want her just pointing at someone and saying "Marry him." I'd not be okay with that. Also, I'd want to know someone for awhile before I married them.
My theory is that those who are happy in arranged marriages are those who are happy to be told what to do. I am not happy to be told what to do, so I would not be happy with someone else chosing my husband/spouse/life partner etc etc.

[]

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 10:25 PM

MCQ

I'm not so sure I'd want my parents picking out who I should marry. Considering my parents themselves are divorced and neither of them really know what I like in a woman, I can't see it working out if they tried to select who they thought would make a good bride. I don't think they know me as well as they think they do because there's stuff about me I don't tell them - nothing gritty or anything, just stuff that I tend to keep to myself. With that, I don't think they could possibly pick out someone that I would be truly happy with. Sometimes you just have to go with your instincts, yet sometimes that doesn't always work either.

O Captain, My Captain? (or the other way around)
-----------------------------

The official Court Jester of the Mythical Land that is Iowa! Woohoo!!

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Saturday, November 11, 2006 11:03 PM

Y'know, watching the movie "Patton" today really got me thinking about a common "imponderable" in my head.

Do you believe in definite right or wrong (and the areas of gray in between), or that there is only conflict of opinion? I came of the opinion a long time ago that the latter is true. We Americans do things that we perceive as harmless, while others perceive it as truly evil and wrong. We make the same judgments about those people in return. What makes a fight, or war, on conflict on any scale, is one party attempting to push its beliefs on another, and the recipient party deciding on what level to retaliate. Depending on each party's resolve on the issue at hand, this can result in anything from an acquiescence, to an exchange of words, to a full-scale war.

Anyways, what do the people here believe? Is there a scale, or only a difference of interests?

[IMG]

Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkiries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:54 AM

JAMESTHEDARK

I know for an unalienable fact that no matter what one does, one will always be pissing somebody off. It's part of the human condition that there's always somebody out there hankering for a fight and will take any excuse to start one.

Of course, I am a well known misanthrope, so this might just be my cynicism showing.

In answer, there's only conflict of interests and ideals. If there were only absolute truth and absolute wrong, then all lines in the world would meet at right angles, and the 'wild' places would be as sterile as the place they make microchips. If there was just ultimate right, there wouldn't be room for anything but one, single human being, and not another animal, plant, or single celled organism. And five seconds later, there wouln't be enough room for the world, either.
(Seriously, should I be a philosophy major or what?)

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 4:32 AM

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

woah... uh... that's pretty heavy actually.

Chris - I meant that comment as a compliment, I hope you took it as one! I meant that you are a little less absolute and a little more interactive and I know about honesty - believe me, but it comes in lots of forms. I genuinely didn't mean to imply that were ever anything but honest or true to yourself and I certainly did not think you were comprimising yourself or your ideals to please others... I have never thought that of you. I would say that I often disagree with your (sometimes extreme, to my mind) points of view, but I do respect your honest and the way you are true to yourself. I hope that you realised that.

James - hey - that is pretty thought provoking too... I have actually come from a gathering at my church tonight where we remembered Krystal Nacht and heard a remarkable man speak about the effects of hatred from his own personal experience. George was 13 when he attended the 1936 Olympic games in Berlin, his home town, and witnessed first-hand Adolph Hitler refuse to place the gold medal on black Amercian athlete Jesse Owens, and he helped rescue scrolls and book s that were hundreds of years old as a huge synagogue in Berlin burned on the 9th November, when the Nazi's began their assult on the Jewish population, including the burning of approx. 200 synagogues and countless businesses owned by Jews accross Germany and beyone her borders...

He survived 3 years in Auschwitz and even escaped on the death march at the end of the war - eventually being rescued by US soldiers.

His primary message to us tonight was not to let hate enter your heart or it enters your sould and will kill you more quickly than the people you wish it to kill. He said that all the worlds conflicts start with hate, that hate starts with fear and fear starts with ignorance.

So - you might say that most of the worlds conficts begin with ignorance, fear and hatred. Yes - there are absolutes of faith, belief, understanding of wrong and right, but if those who held these beliefs were more broadly educated and were able to understand one another's lives, "to walk in another's shoes" they might not remain ignorant enough to fear or feargul enough to hate...

Oh dear... sorry for that ramble - It is now 1.30am and I need to go to bed... Thanks for the intellectual stimulation - that is another thing I love about the Imponderables - stretches my mind!

Good morning and good night to those I will miss! - Magda x x x

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:07 AM

BSCPANTHERFAN

Magdalena, it's nice to be missed. I have been involved in some special projects for one of my bosses that turned me into a lurker, and right after that I was on vacation for a week away from any computer. Inertia did the rest. But I'm back (Woohoo!) and loving it!

Anyway, as far as I know, our Opera season is mainly in the Spring for the stuff I am involved with. Usually if they do something in the Fall they bring in outside groups or special performers. This Spring we are doing "La Cenerentola" by Rossini, on January 18th and 20th, and Puccini's "La Boheme" on March 29th and 31st. I know there is a rehearsal sometime in the next week or two and I will ask the Chorus Director what's going on in the Fall.

Sorry for the long-winded post. Now, back to your previously scheduled pondering, already in progress.

So who is he?
He's my husband.
Well who in the damn galaxy ain't!

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:45 AM

KINGJAYNE

Check out this vid and ponder away - beware it could well blow your mind!

http://geeksaresexy.blogspot.com/2006/10/hubble-deep-field-most-import
ant-image.html

------------------
I could get naked?
------------------

any society that gives up a little liberty for a little security, deserves neither and loses both - Ben Franklin U.S

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:30 AM

MARINA

Quote:
My theory is that those who are happy in arranged marriages are those who are happy to be told what to do. I am not happy to be told what to do, so I would not be happy with someone else chosing my husband/spouse/life partner etc etc.

I think the most interesting thing about modern arranged marriages is that they aren't forced. I would have agreed with you, vehemently, until I befriended a couple in England, Asim and Huma.

I guess what they said that clicked for me was that they had each met dozens of potential suitors before, and turned them down - the offer wasn't forced, it was a suggestion. With each suggestion came the knowledge that the match would be welcomed and embraced by both sides of the family, but it was still up to them, individually, to say yes to someone they saw a future with.

As you might imagine, their religion and their parents forbade them from being alone together before the wedding (nevermind that they were in their mid 20s with college degrees) but both of them snuck off half a dozen times to have coffee and talk, without spectators, to just...well, date. Secretly of course, but an important element to their courtship.

Anyways, just an example of people being in arranged marriages NOT accepting what they're being told to do ;)

Don't make faces.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 10:34 AM

MARINA

Quote:
Originally posted by McQ:
at what time does "late at night" become "early in the morning"? We all come from different parts of the world and therefore are in different time zones. Yet it could be 2am and one would say "it's 2 in the morning and I haven't slept yet" while someone else would say "it's late at night, maybe I should go to bed". Does it depend on whether you've been to bed yet? Just thought I'd toss this one out there.

For me, definitely depends on two things:
1) have I gone to bed yet
2) what time my day begins

For instance, if it is four in the morning (technically) but it's on the weekend and I plan to sleep until noon, I would say it's late at night. If it's four in the morning and I have an assignment due at eight, I'd say it's morning and a whole slew of cuss words.

Don't make faces.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:08 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Quote:
Originally posted by McQ:

I have one of an unusual nature. Don't know if it's been discussed before on here though since I'm new but - at what time does "late at night" become "early in the morning"? We all come from different parts of the world and therefore are in different time zones. Yet it could be 2am and one would say "it's 2 in the morning and I haven't slept yet" while someone else would say "it's late at night, maybe I should go to bed". Does it depend on whether you've been to bed yet? Just thought I'd toss this one out there.

I usually prefer using the very literal way of thinking about it, because that's pretty much how I always think. So I just say if it's past midnight then it's early in the morning, and if it's before, then it's late at night. Or at least that's what I would say, but I might be thinking that it's late at night....
okay maybe I shouldn't try to figure out how my mind works....

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Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:09 PM

MSG

CMH- It speaks well of you that you don't malign your mom HUGS...Hmm I think there are very few things in this world that are "absolutely evil and wrong" from any perspective. I'd say enjoying and finding delight in pain and suffering of others is wrong no matter what. I'd say that harming a child for ANY reason is wrong, but apart from that I think it has to do with your beliefs and perception. So I'd pretty much agree with you that with any action taken, it has the possibility to cause another to believe that action is wrong...so we bumble through as best possible. I also think that most humans have the capacity for tremendous good and tremendous evil and the choices we make lead us in one direction or another... Now one of your comments has brought up a ponderable for me and strangely a very serious one.

Can you truly love someone if you don't trust them?? If, in any way, you don't completely trust them not to intentionally( because we all accidentally do this sometimes) cause you pain, be it emotional or physical can you really love them??

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."- Albright

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:56 PM

VERSEEXPLORER

KingJayne, I loved the vid. I have friends who are astro physicists. I could listen to them all day long. Of course I only get a glimmer of what they are talking about. We are very small.

How about going the other direction? Have you heard of the Mandelbrot Set? Julian sets were discovered in the late 1800s, but they had never been seen because the calculations took too long. Until, in the late 1960s when computers were assessable. Mandelbrot first entered the coordinates for what is now known as the Mandelbrot set. When plotted on a computer, it can be infinitely magnified. Interestingly there are little Mandelbrot sets with in the original.

I have quiet a few, but these are my favorites:

=
(this first one is called "A Mandelbrot the size of the known Universe" because by the time they have magnified it at the end the original set would be the size of the Universe).

=

They say that it's possible that any pattern or shape can be found in the Mandelbrot set.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:20 PM

KINGJAYNE

Mandelnautics is such a trip, thanks for the links verseexplorer.

All of those clips remind me of a friend who had an acid flashback during 2001: space oddesey. He just pitched a fit on my sofa mumbling something about rabbits chasing him in '66

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I could get naked?
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any society that gives up a little liberty for a little security, deserves neither and loses both - Ben Franklin U.S

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 2:53 PM

VERSEEXPLORER

OK, I was under the influence when I saw 2001: A Space Odessey, but that's another story.

I thought of the Mandelbrot Set because the music on the video you shared was the same music from a program called "The Colours Of Infinity." It's about Benoit Mandelbrot and how he found the M-Set. Interestingly, the program was narrated by Arthur C. Clarke, who wtote and directed 2001: A Space Odessey.

I made a web site to introduce my friends to the 'Verse.
http://web.mac.com/arcadianlc

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 3:21 PM

Magdalena - I know that you meant it as a compliment, and I hope I wasn't being too harsh in responding the way I did. A while ago, I told everyone about how I always go through a sort of hazing period with new people, intentional or otherwise. I can only remember one friend of mine who liked me right away. Of course, back then, everyone here seemed to think I was looking for pity, I even recall the "No body likes me, everybody hats me" line being thrown at me. But I think the course of my stay here has shown otherwise. People really do dislike me at first, and have to adjust to me just as I have to adjust to them. That period's over, and I'm glad that most of you can accept me for who I am now. Of course, there's some people who just refuse to do that, but maybe you've read my opinions that there will always be conflict in life. If I didn't have a couple people ranging from disliking me to being sworn enemies, I wouldn't know what to do.

MSG - The very first classroom session that I received during Basic Training, our Senior Drill Sargent told us about his most recent deployment, about how he had seen a young boy pointing an RPG In the direction of him and his squad. Without hesitation, he said, he put a round right in between the child's eyes, and lives without the slightest bit of regret.

"There are many moments for ruthless action - what is often called ruthless - what may in many circumstances be only clarity, seeing clearly what there is to be done and doing it, directly, quickly, awake, looking at it."

It seems to me that no matter what face you put on it, there's only one party's action, and another party's reaction. Animals kill each other, each other's young, many species are cannibalistic. What makes us an exception seems only to be the expectations of those around us. Some societies would not shame a person for killing a child. This in mind, what authority decides that it is evil to hurt just because you enjoy hurting? It's only the expectation of society that one be more merciful that dictates that line of thinking.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, either. For sure, I've pretty much drawn the line the same place that our constitution does; when your actions inflict upon someone else's life, liberty or property. But even that's only a logical approach, the way that it "should" be. Being part of nature, I can for one say that while I believe that nature has a balance, it is anything but logical.

You might be asking yourself why I'd be justifying the "evil" actions of others if it's something I don't partake in myself. There seems little point in justifying something that you're morally opposed to, doesn't it? Well, the way I see it is that continuing to judge these acts from a position of moral authority only weakens us. Attaching meaning where there is none will ultimately make us more passionate in our pursuit of abolishing it. Passion has it's place in many things, but using it as a catalyst in matters of conflict is dangerous. Is has a tendency to consume us in those affairs, to make us hate, and in that regard, make us become what we are trying to destroy. What is the old quote?

"He who seeks to destroy evil should be careful not to become evil himself."

Or something to that effect? I'm not saying that it's wrong to have morals; only to judge other people's morals, or seeming lack thereof, as "wrong". Because it is judgment, that type of judgment, that will defeat us.

[IMG]

Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkiries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 5:54 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Morning everyone! I feel well-rested for the first time in a couple weeks; is nice!
MsG, I don't think there can be love without trust. I can't even be friends with someone I don't trust, let alone anything else. I might be pretty harsh about it, too, because if I can't trust them not to consistantly cause me pain - be it deliberate or accidental - I can't be close to them. Even if it's accidental, if it's consistant, it undermines the needed trust.
Sorry, that was a ponderable, right? Since I can't watch vids at work, that's all I had to respond to

*edit* Oh, no I'm wrong there was the arranged marriage thing, too! It's nice that there's some choice involved. I can see how that would work better. That I might be okay with; it's hard sometimes to line up your own 'suitors' so it might be nice to have it done for you. Yes, yes, I could see that.

[]

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Sunday, November 12, 2006 6:41 PM